AoS 2 - Daughters of Khaine Discussion

[jhamslam]

6 minutes ago, Eternalis said:

There are less D2 in AoS than in 40K. I don't know if that change is a nerf or not though.

It helps us against Evocators, Varanguard, Stormcast Vanguard Raptor Shooting, A lot of gargant Damage. KO 2 damage shooting, Also negates what the warchanter does for Ironjawz. 

Nah theres quite a lot to be gained here

Edited February 11, 2021 by jhamslam

[jhamslam]

6 minutes ago, Eternalis said:

There are less D2 in AoS than in 40K. I don't know if that change is a nerf or not though.

Obv not as a good as a 5 up FNP< but then DOK being a really tough horde army with a 5 up FNP never made much sense

 

[DJMoose]

So assuming the flavor text is to be believed, The Bloodwrack Viper and The Bladewind are endless spells, and The Heart of Fury is an ENDLESS PRAYER!

[Graywater]

The Swords seem pretty useless at the moment, as cover doesn't come up too frequently. Maybe cover will be changed in the next edition to be more easily come by?

The heart seems good at first glance. I'm not too excited by the idea of more defensive buffs for this army, but if some others have been changed/removed, this is a fine addition. 

The snake is my clear favorite looks-wise. Its ability has the potential to be alright in some matchups, but my initial feeling is that it isn't going to do much in most circumstances. Will probably depend on how far from the caster it can initially be setup, it's movement speed, and points cost.

[mojojojo101]

The heart seems like one of those things that is either really useful, or just not worth bothering with. Depends on who your opponent is.

Swords seem pretty weak outside of removing cover which in itself is also pretty meh.

Snake seems fun though. Use it to swallow up a little support hero or trigger BS tests on small units of elite models like evocators and what not.

[Mutton]

29 minutes ago, Graywater said:

The Swords seem pretty useless at the moment, as cover doesn't come up too frequently. Maybe cover will be changed in the next edition to be more easily come by?

When one of your weekly opponents exclusively plays Idoneth, you can bet this spell will be useful.

[Milano]

If its the same mechanic for endless prayers like eg Khorne, the heart could mean two things: cheap in points (40-60)  and not deniable by your opponent . Hmm a bit situational but still quite a good catch 😄 my personal highlight 

The snake looks awesome but otherwise meh. 

[Mcprowlington]

Wow, i can't believe how boring Bladewind is for something with so much potential.

The sorceress on black dragon currently has bladewind (or atleast a spell of the same name) and it has you roll a handful of dice directly against enemy armor saves, which is pretty cool.

Prior to when it was revised, you rolled a handful of dice  and they took a wound for each dice you rolled lower than the target units' required Hit roll, to represent that units ability to parry all the blades being flown at them. That also felt really awesome and unique. 

But we're down to d3 mortal wounds now? it's a spell we have to purchase and we have visual representation of, couldn't they have been a bit more creative?

 

as far as the iron heart, i think it's situational but potentially very powerful. Due to how multi-damage attacks spill over in AOS i really don't think it's comparable to nurgle's new 40k  disgustingly resilient, and being able to half all incoming damage in certain circumstances is really strong. Not to mention, less 1-size-fits-all solutions are exactly what DoK need right now in terms of army building options

Edited February 11, 2021 by Mcprowlington

[Graywater]

36 minutes ago, Mutton said:

When one of your weekly opponents exclusively plays Idoneth, you can bet this spell will be useful.

You've got me. That's like, the one situation it's good- when you know what exactly you're playing against and they always use it. I'm more thinking for tournaments, its too niche to be worth the investment.

[Chumphammer]

Sticking the heart into a spot where 20snakes are about to hit something that does multi wounds, or defending a place vs stuff like Eel charges, could be very useful 

[Overread]

The heart does indeed seem situational, which isn't an outright bad thing, it just means it might not feature in general take-all lists or competitive lists; that is unless the player knows the local meta features a lot of multi wound damage sources.

 

Also lets not forget we don't know the points on these yet; quite a few Endless Spells are not awesome spells, but they do decently well and fill very small point values ideal for finishing off a list and reaching closer to the target amount where you can't otherwise have enough points to add another unit/model to the army. 

[JackStreicher]

1 hour ago, jhamslam said:

Also negates what the warchanter does for Ironjawz. 

+1, was Time we can counter that

now let‘s hope for bonuses to our casting apart from morathi.

endless spells are worthless if you lack the means to cast them reliably 

Edited February 11, 2021 by JackStreicher

[Bonesplitterz]

43 minutes ago, Milano said:

If its the same mechanic for endless prayers like eg Khorne, the heart could mean two things: cheap in points (40-60)  and not deniable by your opponent . Hmm a bit situational but still quite a good catch 😄 my personal highlight 

The snake looks awesome but otherwise meh. 

But then it’s written:

“Make sure you also pick up a Bloodwrack Shrine to cast them from”

[swarmofseals]

@JackStreicher Khinerai would be way too good at their current cost if they had 2w each.

___________

As always the usefulness of these endless spells and/or prayers will depend on their cost, range, casting value etc. That said the heart looks VERY strong to me. You will occasionally have matchups where it doesn't do much, but nearly all opponents have at least some multi damage sources. And against some armies it will be flat-out game winning. I suspect it will be something like 1/3 of matches it will be game-defining, 1/3 it will be useful, and 1/3 it will be pretty bad. I suspect that unless it's super expensive it'll be worth including.

[Ragest]

Considering DoK is going to carry with this book throught 3.0, maybe gw thinks about changing scenery stuff so the blades can be stronger as it seems now?

[jhamslam]

I cant wait to take it against my IJ friends and the one dude who plays like 40 broadaxe Hearthguard

[Feii]

5 minutes ago, jhamslam said:

I cant wait to take it against my IJ friends and the one dude who plays like 40 broadaxe Hearthguard

Yep basically 50% dmg reduction from their meele weapons

[JackStreicher]

Tbh: The DoK endless spells are pretty bad (snake and swords). While almost all other predatory endless spells won‘t affect their faction, we are getting the backfiring ones. No thx. I won’t pay  money or points for a spell that wastes a spell-slot AND backfires.

 

I do not get this decision AT ALL

[Feii]

5 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

Tbh: The DoK endless spells are pretty bad (snake and swords). While almost all other predatory endless spells won‘t affect their faction, we are getting the backfiring ones. No thx. I won’t pay  money or points for a spell that wastes a spell-slot AND backfires.

 

I do not get this decision AT ALL

The endless prayer could be very strong. Furthermore the bladewind spell looks very interesting (its focus on the terrainmodifiers might be targetted towards AoS 3 terrain rules)  and we do not know its mivement range.

[Milano]

Im not a fan of predatory endless spells either. Trying to make the double turn less oppressive is a good idea, but then change the rules. No need to implement spells which you pay the points for, but can be used against you. 😅 the reason why the comet is great for sce..besides all that crazy impact damage 😉

[5kaven5lave]

Sticking the heart in the middle of your 6-wound-hero nerve centre might not be a terrible idea just to try and protect them a bit?

[Chumphammer]

2 minutes ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Sticking the heart in the middle of your 6-wound-hero nerve centre might not be a terrible idea just to try and protect them a bit?

even the possibility of knocking out a Stormfiend or chaos varanguard, hell even eels/fyreslayers. All depends on points really.   

All predatory endless spells can backfire. Geminids is one of the worse for us to backfire so it really depends on your playstyle.

I dont usually use PES

[JackStreicher]

5 minutes ago, Chumphammer said:

All predatory endless spells can backfire

Most faction specific PS can‘t. Have a look at Sylvaneth, OBR etc

[Neverchosen]

1 hour ago, Ragest said:

Considering DoK is going to carry with this book throught 3.0, maybe gw thinks about changing scenery stuff so the blades can be stronger as it seems now?

I keep thinking that the next edition will either include siege mechanics or at least introduce a supplement focusing on them. Maybe this is DOK's answer to clearing the parapet's before scaling a wall?

[Fyrm]

We don't know that our Endless Spells can backfire yet. I admit it looks very likely, but we only know 1 ability of each. Maybe they have rules that only DoK players can move them, like Bound? So you have to worry about how you place and move them as they can backfire if you aren't. And you have to worry if infighting/mirror matching. Or maybe they'll have a separate rule for DoK immunity.

 

Honestly, as I've gone on I've found the rules previews to be less and less appealing, just due to the fact of how useless they are. Giving just a trickle of rules only serves to get people angry because clearly this is all there is to it.

 

Now, giving the lore? Giving images of well constructed and painted models? Stories? Maybe it'd be neat to get a general Battle Report that's more dramatized than mechanically reported? Like, I'm super hype for that new Snake spell!!! [Yes I play DoK because sneks, lol]. Looks gorgeous, evocative description of how it does what it does. If I can fit it into a list without too much trouble it's going in. Am I happy it has a neat effect? Well, I don't really know how neat its effect is yet, but if it is then great! But I feel like GW would do better giving less scraps of rules and more fluff focus.