AoS 2 - Daughters of Khaine Discussion

[swarmofseals]

48 minutes ago, JD222 said:

Ok so the Blood Stalkers and Sisters in Shadow and Pain box have different scrolls and points? Are these rules similar to the soul wars scrolls which are intended only as for use with the box and the supplement it comes with? Basically to make up the difference in the box being not balanced as if you only have that box and the models it comes with? 

Just kinda confusing that they haven't updated the scrolls/points, or that they weren't included in Broken realms morathi which clearly had the opportunity to update them in this way with the wording they provide about it being an update to the battletome itself.

Any clarity on this would be appreciated.

In the past warscroll changes that came with these boxed sets were considered official for matched play (for example, there were some Sylvaneth changes in the Looncurse warscrolls that were later confirmed in the Sylvaneth battletome).

[JD222]

31 minutes ago, swarmofseals said:

In the past warscroll changes that came with these boxed sets were considered official for matched play (for example, there were some Sylvaneth changes in the Looncurse warscrolls that were later confirmed in the Sylvaneth battletome).

Ahh I see nice, so safe to assume a new battletome with updated cards should make its way at some point and include the khanite shadow stalkers etc. Hopefully endless spells and or terrain too! 

[PiotrW]

Hey guys!

I'm in the painting mood lately and I decided to try finally painting my Cauldron of Blood. And here's a question:

Do we know what these things are actually made of?

Some parts are obviously metal, but what about the stairs - do we know if it's metal, wood etc.? I'm tempted to make the railing metallic, too - not sure what to do with the steps themselves. Try painting it as wood? Or, maybe, yet another metal - with some gory red stains drybrushed to simulate the whole thing being covered in dried blood?

Any suggestions?

[Lucentia]

As it's a wide and wacky fantasy world you can obviously use any material you like, the stairs on my cauldrons are done in bone, for example.  It might be helpful to think on terms of colour composition rather than material as it's quite a big, weird model, you might not want gory steps if all your panelling is already crimson, etc.

Visually the chassis kinda looks like carved wood to me, but it could well be metal work, or carved gemstone, etc.

[PiotrW]

2 hours ago, Lucentia said:

As it's a wide and wacky fantasy world you can obviously use any material you like, the stairs on my cauldrons are done in bone, for example.  It might be helpful to think on terms of colour composition rather than material as it's quite a big, weird model, you might not want gory steps if all your panelling is already crimson, etc.

Visually the chassis kinda looks like carved wood to me, but it could well be metal work, or carved gemstone, etc.

Thanks! BTW. Bone? Now, here's a cool idea

And what did you do with the sculpture holding the cauldron?

[Lucentia]

My sculpture guy is just flat gold, but if I were to do another one I'd be tempted to do it in a dark marble/obsidian sort of look, it kinda gets lost amongst all the gold trim elsewhere on the model.

[Ggom]

I'm starting work on my cauldron too and am thinking of doing alot of gold and black. Probably avoid too much brightness and instead have the Avatar glowing as the focal point.

It's fun to brainstorm!

[PiotrW]

21 hours ago, Lucentia said:

My sculpture guy is just flat gold, but if I were to do another one I'd be tempted to do it in a dark marble/obsidian sort of look, it kinda gets lost amongst all the gold trim elsewhere on the model.

Yeah, I thinking of making the sculpture stand out in some way...

Would you be willing in sharing some pictures of your model?

1 hour ago, Ggom said:

I'm starting work on my cauldron too and am thinking of doing alot of gold and black. Probably avoid too much brightness and instead have the Avatar glowing as the focal point.

It's fun to brainstorm!

My idea, so far, is to go with dark brown metal for the chassis, bronze for more decorative elements (some chassis pieces, the railing of the stairs etc.) and steely silver for blades. The Avatar will be dark brown and bronze. The steps of the stairs will be reddish marble. I might go with the same marble for the sculpture...

BTW. This is a cool model to paint, but damn, it's also tricky - at least, if one is painting it after assembling. Reaching some elements with the brush is really hard... Thankfully, I didn't glue in the crew and the avatar yet - it would make the model even more insane to paint.

[Ggom]

Agree @PiotrW - I am repainting mine and just ended up dismantling the entire thing so that I can get at it. Also, I ended up with two of the damn things because last week I impulse bought the Start Collecting kit when the store had no Melusai kits available. Gonna be a looooong winter.

[Lucentia]

3 hours ago, PiotrW said:

Yeah, I thinking of making the sculpture stand out in some way...

Would you be willing in sharing some pictures of your model?

Uh, sure, with the disclaimer that I painted it several years ago close to the initial release of AoS and I'd probably take a different (ideally better!) approach to it nowadays.

It's definitely a model which almost necessitates painting in sub-assembly though, I remember I was painting almost every piece individually before assembling it in stages.

[Xil]

16 hours ago, Ggom said:

Agree @PiotrW - I am repainting mine and just ended up dismantling the entire thing so that I can get at it. Also, I ended up with two of the damn things because last week I impulse bought the Start Collecting kit when the store had no Melusai kits available. Gonna be a looooong winter.

Having two isn't a bad idea. 

I need a third to build as Bloodwrack Shrine for the new battalion. 

 

[El Antiguo Guardián]

 

Stalkers list analysis here. Blood sisters one in Patreon.

 

Good sunday mates!

[pixieproxy]

So with the release of the separate box set for shadowstalkers do you think we'll finally get their points?

[Chumphammer]

Temple: Hagg Nar
Morathi-Khaine (210)- Lore of Shadows: Mindrazor
The Shadow Queen (390)
Slaughter Queen on Cauldron of Blood (330) General, Artefact: Iron Circlet, Prayer: Blessing of Khaine
Morgwaeth blade Coven  (140) Sacrament of blood 
20 x Blood Sisters (480)
10 x Witch  Aelves (120)   Blade Bucklers
10 x Witch  Aelves (120)   Blade Bucklers
10 x Witch  Aelves (120)   Blade Bucklers
Extra Command Point (50)

Had this idea. So yes, its lighter on bodies than some lists, but Idea is in turn 2/3 SQ and Morathi both can use their abilities to allow units to attack in combat (So SQ does the ShadowQueen and Morathi does the sisters) 

Could offer a really big hit 
 

[PiotrW]

On 11/28/2020 at 7:00 PM, Ggom said:

Agree @PiotrW - I am repainting mine and just ended up dismantling the entire thing so that I can get at it. Also, I ended up with two of the damn things because last week I impulse bought the Start Collecting kit when the store had no Melusai kits available. Gonna be a looooong winter.

Heh. I considered getting the SC kit, too - but I realized that, at this stage, I really won't have time to assemble and paint a second Cauldron And it's one of the models that really beg to be painted...

On 11/28/2020 at 9:27 PM, Lucentia said:

Uh, sure, with the disclaimer that I painted it several years ago close to the initial release of AoS and I'd probably take a different (ideally better!) approach to it nowadays.

It's definitely a model which almost necessitates painting in sub-assembly though, I remember I was painting almost every piece individually before assembling it in stages.

Thanks! This is cool. Is there someone carrying the shrine? I see that you have removed the wheels?

[Graywater]

12 hours ago, Chumphammer said:

Temple: Hagg Nar
Morathi-Khaine (210)- Lore of Shadows: Mindrazor
The Shadow Queen (390)
Slaughter Queen on Cauldron of Blood (330) General, Artefact: Iron Circlet, Prayer: Blessing of Khaine
Morgwaeth blade Coven  (140) Sacrament of blood 
20 x Blood Sisters (480)
10 x Witch  Aelves (120)   Blade Bucklers
10 x Witch  Aelves (120)   Blade Bucklers
10 x Witch  Aelves (120)   Blade Bucklers
Extra Command Point (50)

Had this idea. So yes, its lighter on bodies than some lists, but Idea is in turn 2/3 SQ and Morathi both can use their abilities to allow units to attack in combat (So SQ does the ShadowQueen and Morathi does the sisters) 

Could offer a really big hit 
 

I like it. The snakes do horrific damage when buffed, and being able to do all of your prayer/spells before deciding to attack in the hero phase is nice. Even without being fully buffed, having two sources of fight in the hero phase can help get them unburied from a previous rounds' combat, since they could double hero phase activate right? Slaughter queen's and morathi's CA both mention the same unit cannot be chosen twice by the same ability, but theyre different.

[NecroMerlin]

Brand new DoK player here who really likes the monster girl aesthetic. I’m looking for some advice on how to kit out what I have and what I should target next.

I have two halves of Shadow & Pain, a SC box, and Morathi. 
 

Mainly looking for advice on how many melee/ranged snakes I should build and the best way to build the Cauldron. 

[Graywater]

11 hours ago, NecroMerlin said:

Brand new DoK player here who really likes the monster girl aesthetic. I’m looking for some advice on how to kit out what I have and what I should target next.

I have two halves of Shadow & Pain, a SC box, and Morathi. 
 

Mainly looking for advice on how many melee/ranged snakes I should build and the best way to build the Cauldron. 

One thing you are going to find is that our units add up in points quick. Morathi is 600 points and our cauldrons are around 300. Thats already nearly half of your army without any non-hero units. 

I like the hag on cauldron for snake builds. It is a little cheaper and provides you with the witchbrew you want without having to invest another 100 points on a foot hag. Also, you're going to likely need to run a medusa as your general, since you will probably be running battleline snakes. Keep her as cheap as you can, because while she does get to cast a spell, she is mostly only in the army to make your melee snakes battleline. So a shrine for her is a luxury that you'll often want to skip. Lastly, since the medusa will be the general, the slaughter queen makes no sense to be included, since her CA is only useful if she is the general.

The nice thing, is that the new morathi warscroll addresses a lot of what you're lacking for in the hero department. She is a more reliable spellcaster than the medusa who can't be easily killed, and she has the hero phase command ability you want from the slaughter queen. The only thing she can't do is prayers and witchbrew, which is again why I recommend the hag on cauldron.

Bow snakes have become a viable option with their recent changes. They doubled the output for only 20 more points, and they are a great target for morathi's hero phase activation early game. A unit of 10 seems large enough to present a decent threat without being too much of a points investment. I think 20 is too many resources in one spot. Plus, that is half of the points you have left after your heroes, which isn't going to work unless you go absolutely minimum on your battleline options.

Melee snakes are a battleline option with a medusa general, and the only "monster girl" battleline option you have. Ive had a lot of success with a unit of 20, but it is pretty unwieldy and seems to work when doing a more hybrid elf/snake army. Youre likely going to have to do at least one minimum unit for a 3rd battleline if you want to go with no elf models in your army, but units of 10 can be pretty effective. Youll definitely want to get to activate with them first when they do get into combat though, as they die pretty fast and their killing power drops off dramatically. 

For your harpies, you have options. Min units of heartrenders are always useful as a constant backfield threat that your opponent has to account for. I think lifetakers get a bit overlooked though. On the one hand, they die to a stiff breeze and only have a 1" range on 40mm bases, but on the other, they can do some horrific damage if buffed properly and they're cheap. Buffing 5 is a waste, but 20 is too many to get them all in, and you're investing too much into a disposable unit. Ive been having some success in games with a unit of 10. Give them mind razor and witchbrew, and throw them forward with big morathi to explode on a problem unit your opponent has. They'll die in your opponent's turn, but you bought yourself a turn of positioning and your 160 point lifetaker unit will likely trade favorably against whatever your opponent has. I had 8 harpies kill a unit of 3 mancrushers on their own in my last game.

Edited December 1, 2020 by Graywater

[NecroMerlin]

On 12/1/2020 at 9:17 AM, Graywater said:I like the hag on cauldron for snake builds. It is a little cheaper and provides you with the witchbrew you want without having to invest another 100 points on a foot hag. Also, you're going to likely need to run a medusa as your general, since you will probably be running battleline snakes. Keep her as cheap as you can, because while she does get to cast a spell, she is mostly only in the army to make your melee snakes battleline. So a shrine for her is a luxury that you'll often want to skip. Lastly, since the medusa will be the general, the slaughter queen makes no sense to be included, since her CA is only useful if she is the general.

I really appreciate the time you took with this post. Is there any use for the new hero in the Shadow & Pain box? Should I try to trade one or both of them? 
 

Also I’m not opposed to witch elves but don’t they need to be in a horde and it’s not the cheapest kit considering what I have already bought haha. 

[Graywater]

1 minute ago, NecroMerlin said:

I really appreciate the time you took with this post. Is there any use for the new hero in the Shadow & Pain box? Should I try to trade one or both of them? 
 

Also I’m not opposed to witch elves but don’t they need to be in a horde and it’s not the cheapest kit considering what I have already bought haha. 

I haven't personally found a use for the ironscale. I was very excited upon first seeing her, but without making snakes battleline, she is kinda dead in the water for me. Only her CA is useful, and thats only if you have spare command points, which often isn't the case now that morathi gets the hero phase activation ability. I would at least keep one though. Its an excellent model and future changes could make it useful.

Witch elves/sisters of slaughter do tend to work better in large units, because its their potential with all the available buffs that make them good, not what's written on their warscroll. They are however, our cheapest battleline unit, and a unit of 10 witches near a hero can put out a surprising amount of damage for a basic battleline unit. They are also good as objective campers and early screens.

[pixieproxy]

I have a vain hope that a faq will make the ironscale have snakes be battleline. But I suspect it's not to be

[Lucentia]

They should probably just toss the Priest keyword on the Ironscale while they're at it, maybe give her a warscroll prayer that boosts Melusai in some way, right now it's difficult for me to find the incentive to spare 140 points for her in a list when all I really want from her is her command ability.  If they'd made her an actual beatstick hero that could've been fine too, but she's not especially good in a fight either. 

Neat model though!  But I don't think there's any harm waiting the X months before she gets a separate release if you want to pick one up.

[Chumphammer]

Having same issue with Ironscale. Having to attack and kill something with it first is a waste of an activation

My hope for the future is a simple one to fix squishy 5w heroes in AOS 3.0

Allow them to attach to units is they are 6W or lower, and on foot. This means they just count as part of the unit and cannot be targeted unless a rule allows specific model targeting. 

This brings support heroes back into the game. For the ironscale it means it couldnow run and charge also, as well as getting to fight first in the unit, giving the buff to the unit if it kills something without losing the activation.

Anyway, just an idea

Yeah having priest or snake battle line would really help its value. Atm I wouldnt take it 

[Jacek]

My only idea for Ironscale is in the build with hagg nar, 20 blood sisters near cauldron, buff 20 sisters with prayer for 5+ faith save reroll and then they have survi to stay after ironscale kills a model.

Problem with that build is that if you want to keep Morathi in the list - you put all eggs in one basket and there is not much points to get something else.

I did not test it yet but maybe will try and let you know

[Chumphammer]

Advent rumor today! We all recognize a version of this 

So dok scenary maybe? A new type of cauldron?

Maybe Hellabron since she's mentioned alot in the covens of blood