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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion

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14 minutes ago, WatcherintheWater said:

Even without a battalion, you can probably get down to 3 drops or so (unless they change the rules for deploying in skyvessals).

The one downside that I see is that because flying high happens in the movement phase, and disembarking happens at the start of the hero phase (unless it changes too),  you can't get out of the boats to do the Endrinrigger charge, and do risk getting surrounded on the following turn.

True. However, this might allow gunhaulers to actually act as escort vessels for the tactic suggested by sirescott. Fly high with all your airships, drop down, shoot 1 enemy flank to bits and use the gunhaulers to screen charges from the other flank. 

I'm also still hoping disembarking will be at the end of the movement phase ... 

18 minutes ago, Kramer said:

 

Agreed. Terrain and endless spells are just part of the overall package of allegiance and warscroll abilities. I'm happy to have less to buy personally. We'll have to wait a week to find out about the rest of the allegiance abilities but early signs seem good. Barak zon is a big buff on the old version at least. 

19 minutes ago, SireScott said:

If there are good battalions the idea of deploying your whole army in airships across the backline, giving your opponent first turn then deep striking to focus on one part of the army sounds potentially superb.

Interesting that this ability seems to be in the warscroll section. So it seems like tempests eye could also use deepstriking ships...... Might not turn out to be good, but an intriguing possibility 

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9 minutes ago, TheadTheOgorSlayer said:

I heard of the aether gold system and I gotta say I don’t know if I like it

I hope they give aethergold a use of you don’t use it. If you aren’t given a bonus for not using it then that would mean its a waste to keep any of your units aether gold.

the army whose only goal is to be filthy rich would be punished for not giving up their gold... whut 

maybe I misread it?

Its not gold, its shares. Trading share parts is established part of the lore. An Admiral may trade some of their shares for a specific artefact a member of the expedition found (see Code of the Skies). 

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15 minutes ago, TheadTheOgorSlayer said:

I heard of the aether gold system and I gotta say I don’t know if I like it

I hope they give aethergold a use of you don’t use it. If you aren’t given a bonus for not using it then that would mean its a waste to keep any of your units aether gold.

the army whose only goal is to be filthy rich would be punished for not giving up their gold... whut 

maybe I misread it?

The effect only lasts until the end of the phase, so you have to plan whenever and in which way you use each part of aethergold. I don't see any problem with that

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3 minutes ago, Gecktron said:

Its not gold, its shares. Trading share parts is established part of the lore. An Admiral may trade some of their shares for a specific artefact a member of the expedition found (see Code of the Skies). 

Damn i did misread it. Would be cool if they got a bonus for not using them. Maybe if a unit with its gold shares survives the battle and doesn’t use them they get a bonus in the next game :), because they have more gold now then their fellows and as a result might be able to buy some extra favours

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Wow does it means I can bring 1 frigate with 30 skywardens, fly high, disembark 3'' away from the enemy, shoot and make a sure-charge, and get +1+1 in melee?

That's pretty shocking.

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New rule for thunderers looks a bit silly. Yes now they are more dangerous in close combat. But as far as I know they can't survive the charge. So what is the case? 

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8 minutes ago, frostfire said:

Wow does it means I can bring 1 frigate with 30 skywardens, fly high, disembark 3'' away from the enemy, shoot and make a sure-charge, and get +1+1 in melee?

That's pretty shocking.

Unless they change how the boats work you disembark in the hero phase. 

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38 minutes ago, Kramer said:

Yeah that’s not why they are winning way too big. Just like it isn’t for Slaanesh. Of course its a leg up against nothing. but if the allegiance abilities are overpowered it doesn’t matter. If they are under powered you are not suddenly winning. So it only helps if it’s a part of you abilities. And as such it’s irrelevant. Only thing that’s relevant if the rules as a whole work. Doesn’t matter what’s in there except for flavour 


But cities won 2 big tournaments without it, as a case in point it helps but it’s not the end all be all. 

Its not end all be all, but its an advantage, idk how that can be argued against. Every army gets allegiance abilities, whose to say if the power of a terrain piece is lacking in the allegiance abilities or if its baked in? As it stands, every army gets allegiance abilities, not every army gets a terrain feature or endless spells, giving them to one army and not another is a straight up advantage for the army that has been given them. Im not saying their winning games by themselves ( allthough my last game against OBR certainly went differently having them gimp Gotreks movement FOR FREE) but its undeniably an advantage to have something in your toolkit versus not having it. 

 

43 minutes ago, crkhobbit said:

A terrain piece gives a "free" buff to the army just like any other faction or allegiance ability.  But it restricts it to a specific location on the board.

We are not missing anything by not having a terrain piece

You said it yourself, its a "free buff" but its not like every other allegiance ability, because allegiance abilities are one thing, and a terrain feature is an entirely separate thing. Just because its limited on the board doesnt make it worse. Like i say above, whose to say the allegiance abilities have the equivalent power of a terrain feature baked into them. The only thing that is certain is that having is better than not having. gaining an additional tool is an advantage. Again i point to OBR, they have great allegiance abilities, the terrain is a cherry on top. Endless spells i feel are the same, but to a lesser extent because at least those cost points to use so their more in line with a standalone unit. 

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25 minutes ago, Dr Ben said:

I'm also still hoping disembarking will be at the end of the movement phase ..

"A garrisoning unit can leave in your movement phase. When it does, set it up so that all models from the unit are within 6" of the terrain feature and more than 3" from any enemy units. This counts as their move for that movement phase."

So the embark/disembark rules might not change.  But garrisoned units can leave during the movement phase.  Based only on what we know right now, you can absolutely have a 3 drop army that can teleport almost anywhere on the board, then have units jump out and only need a 3" charge.

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20 minutes ago, TheadTheOgorSlayer said:

Damn i did misread it. Would be cool if they got a bonus for not using them. Maybe if a unit with its gold shares survives the battle and doesn’t use them they get a bonus in the next game :), because they have more gold now then their fellows and as a result might be able to buy some extra favours

Super awesome for narrative. Campaign with very difficult missions. Killing the gorgon gets an extra share. Etc etc. 
super cool idea thanks! 

 

4 minutes ago, Ser_namron said:

Its not end all be all, but its an advantage, idk how that can be argued against. Every army gets allegiance abilities, whose to say if the power of a terrain piece is lacking in the allegiance abilities or if its baked in? As it stands, every army gets allegiance abilities, not every army gets a terrain feature or endless spells, giving them to one army and not another is a straight up advantage for the army that has been given them. Im not saying their winning games by themselves ( allthough my last game against OBR certainly went differently having them gimp Gotreks movement FOR FREE) but its undeniably an advantage to have something in your toolkit versus not having i

Yeah but then your argument is: what if. And then deciding it’s the most negative explanation. OBR would have had that ability anyway imo then. 
im countering with. What If we got terrain it would be a flag that allows fly high if in LOS. Boom we’re better off without it. Now we can do it FOR FREE AND EVERYWHERE. 

its all down to the rules not the model. Having a model is a disadvantage financially, rules wise it limits you and you have to carry more stuff. It’s a straight advantage not having them. 

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Ordered 30 arkanaut company. Just gonna build 20/21 of them. I know ppl are a bit tired of the big skyhooks arkanaut blob but that sounds fun to me. Hoping it stays.

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2 minutes ago, Kramer said:

its all down to the rules not the model. Having a model is a disadvantage financially, rules wise it limits you and you have to carry more stuff. It’s a straight advantage not having them.

100% correct.

Then, the army is either balanced competitively or not - with or without a terrain piece.

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20 minutes ago, cofaxest said:

New rule for thunderers looks a bit silly. Yes now they are more dangerous in close combat. But as far as I know they can't survive the charge. So what is the case? 

I think Thunderers are VERY likely to be getting warscroll rewrite and my guess is split into two warscrolls (one all rifles and one with the special weapon loadouts). The rule definitely favorers larger units outside of ships. I'm thinking Arkonauts will become the guys you embark on ships and Thunderers will be more of your static shooting footsloggers.

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14 minutes ago, crkhobbit said:

So the embark/disembark rules might not change.  But garrisoned units can leave during the movement phase.  Based only on what we know right now, you can absolutely have a 3 drop army that can teleport almost anywhere on the board, then have units jump out and only need a 3" charge.

Yeah, I feel like this one of those armies that might be skew tier depending on the points/rest of the rules. We are seeing some very powerful rules already. Anyone want to create a "KO, Hideously Overpowered?" thread in the main forum?

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10 minutes ago, King Under the Mountain said:

They fly now?

They fly now 

One of my wish list items was for ships to be able to just leave combat, the new teleportation rules our perfect which is why I’m so excited lol

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The retreating, deep striking, garrison-able ships is making me giddy, and the gold share and thunderers has me excited too.  I’m getting the book pronto and oh wow do I need to buy a load of contrast paints lol.

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38 minutes ago, cofaxest said:

New rule for thunderers looks a bit silly. Yes now they are more dangerous in close combat. But as far as I know they can't survive the charge. So what is the case? 

Doesn’t one of the triumphs allow rerollable saves? Idk about you but a 4 up rerollable in my S2D helps my guys live thru a whole lot. So you could use that on your opponents turn to survive, then shoot them to bits. 

If not then disregard :( 

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Just now, TheadTheOgorSlayer said:

Doesn’t one of the triumphs allow rerollable saves? Idk about you but a 4 up rerollable in my S2D helps my guys live thru a whole lot. So you could use that on your opponents turn to survive, then shoot them to bits. 

If not then disregard :( 

The 6 triumphs are:
 

1. re-roll to hit

2. re-roll to wound

3- re-roll saves

4. No battleshock test

5. re-roll run or charge rolls

6. use a Command ability for free

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2 minutes ago, Gecktron said:

The 6 triumphs are:
 

1. re-roll to hit

2. re-roll to wound

3- re-roll saves

4. No battleshock test

5. re-roll run or charge rolls

6. use a Command ability for free

That’s actually epic. Sounds like command points won’t be needed nearly as much a sense usual. And if they upgrade things to better armour the rerolls will help KO not instantly implode when charged by a Grot holding his spear backwards

(an exaggeration I know but I thought it was a funny visual)

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5 minutes ago, TheadTheOgorSlayer said:

That’s actually epic. Sounds like command points won’t be needed nearly as much a sense usual. And if they upgrade things to better armour the rerolls will help KO not instantly implode when charged by a Grot holding his spear backwards

(an exaggeration I know but I thought it was a funny visual)

Garrisoning in ships alone is going to add a lot of survivability to the infantry (though Thunderers don't get their bonus attack in ships). I won't be surprised if ships get +1 save either due to warscroll changes or some allegiance ability.

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35 minutes ago, Kramer said:

Yeah but then your argument is: what if. And then deciding it’s the most negative explanation. OBR would have had that ability anyway imo then. 
im countering with. What If we got terrain it would be a flag that allows fly high if in LOS. Boom we’re better off without it. Now we can do it FOR FREE AND EVERYWHERE. 

its all down to the rules not the model. Having a model is a disadvantage financially, rules wise it limits you and you have to carry more stuff. It’s a straight advantage not having them.

I see what you mean by me taking it as the most negative explanation, but arent you doing the same with the most positive one? Your saying we would've lost something, but theirs no evidence to that. whose to say we couldn't have gotten everything we've seen like the Fly high ability AS WELL as something liek a flag that lets your units run and charge while within 18" of it? Obviously pulled that one out of my ass, but the point stands. Whose to say if the armys got the terrain features equivalent power baked into the army? Because from where im standing, it just looks like they got a full set of allegiance abilities + a piece of terrain,  not half a set of allegiance abilities and a terrain to fill in the gaps. 

Financially, yes its a disadvantage, but this is warhammer, finances were never the prime concern or noone would get into this hobby. Rules wise it only limits if we take it as something we wouldve had without a terrain feature, which i don't see it as, but it could be argued either way. Hopefully its all balanced and makes it a wash, but again, at face value id gladly take some terrain over no terrain. 

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42 minutes ago, crkhobbit said:

"A garrisoning unit can leave in your movement phase. When it does, set it up so that all models from the unit are within 6" of the terrain feature and more than 3" from any enemy units. This counts as their move for that movement phase."

So the embark/disembark rules might not change.  But garrisoned units can leave during the movement phase.  Based only on what we know right now, you can absolutely have a 3 drop army that can teleport almost anywhere on the board, then have units jump out and only need a 3" charge.

Very good point. That seems pretty tasty.

I suppose embark/disembark could even just be replaced by garrison rules. That would tidy up the warscrolls nicely. I guess we'll have to see if anything in the book over-rides the core rules about garrisons you've referred to above. 

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