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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion

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2 hours ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Hopefully the army will become a bit more balanced and have some decent melee options as well as the shooting we love. And some decent gunboats.
 

Not a huge amount of minis in that box though or is it just me?

Not a huge amount of minis. But a bit more than 2 start collecting sets of value for each army, especially given new start collecting seem smaller the older ones. So that's about what I'd expect. 

The box components make it seem hopeful that the new character will unlock riggers and/or wardens as Battleline. 

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I didnt expect a new model at all so thats awesome.  Now im hoping for some good rules balancing....

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2 hours ago, Dr Ben said:

The box components make it seem hopeful that the new character will unlock riggers and/or wardens as Battleline. 

This is what im hoping for. I wish i can play an army full of flyers

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I‘m really curious which directions they‘ll take.

There are so many little tweaks, that would do a lot.

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Well, we have now 2 "templates" of BT. You have 2 kinds of BT: the soup ones and the trio ones.  The soup ones are like LoN, CoS, StD even Orruks, they have many entries and try to "mix match separate" units more or less thematically.  And the trio ones is for the low entries armies like Ogors, FeC, Sylvaneth ...You have essentially 3 +1 way of play: the horde army, the elite army and the Behemoth army (and the last one is a mix of them all) . I have no doubt, KO will be trio BT with troups army, balloon army (like the upcoming box seems to tell us) and the ships army, plus the classic mix match....

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6 hours ago, GeneralZero said:

Well, we have now 2 "templates" of BT. You have 2 kinds of BT: the soup ones and the trio ones.  The soup ones are like LoN, CoS, StD even Orruks, they have many entries and try to "mix match separate" units more or less thematically.  And the trio ones is for the low entries armies like Ogors, FeC, Sylvaneth ...You have essentially 3 +1 way of play: the horde army, the elite army and the Behemoth army (and the last one is a mix of them all) . I have no doubt, KO will be trio BT with troups army, balloon army (like the upcoming box seems to tell us) and the ships army, plus the classic mix match....

this kinda makes sense. But only for the battle time that bring faction together. This doesn’t apply to stormcast, deepkin, bonereapers, daughters of Khaine. Probably more. 
seems to me the single faction battle tomes don’t have that. Yes some of those factions have different ‘stormhosts’ that reward certain unit focus but its not a three ways to play as you describe. 

Also I don’t see them dropping skyports as that potentially harms existing armies. I can imagine a Ziflin army allowing gunhaulers as battleline or something. 

Question though: I have only skimmed the sylvaneth book. But how do they divide into three styles? 

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8 hours ago, GeneralZero said:

Well, we have now 2 "templates" of BT. You have 2 kinds of BT: the soup ones and the trio ones.  The soup ones are like LoN, CoS, StD even Orruks, they have many entries and try to "mix match separate" units more or less thematically.  And the trio ones is for the low entries armies like Ogors, FeC, Sylvaneth ...You have essentially 3 +1 way of play: the horde army, the elite army and the Behemoth army (and the last one is a mix of them all) . I have no doubt, KO will be trio BT with troups army, balloon army (like the upcoming box seems to tell us) and the ships army, plus the classic mix match....

Not sure KO can be done in either style because the large ships are troop carriers as well. The ships ,outside the gunhauler, are costed as troop carriers and their warscrolls are built around moving troops about. It is why they have always been lacking in armour and damage output. They would not work like other behemoth armies.

 

Actually thinking about it, you could have two warscrolls for each ship, including the gunhauler. One that allows troops to be carried , let's say 3 ballon boys for a gunhauler, 10 foot troops for the frigate and 15 for the ironclads plus the rule for more troops equals movement loss. Then the other warscrolls could be straight up battle ships with higher armour and better weapons but they lose the troop carrying ability.

For the non troop version you could have make different KO heros into the captain of each ship and have them unlock different abilities. An admiral as captain of a ship  could unlock the abilitie to make ships battleline. Khemist could unlock double shoots on a ship etc.

Would require a complete rework but that's what new battletomes are for.

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3 hours ago, Soolong said:

Not sure KO can be done in either style because the large ships are troop carriers as well. The ships ,outside the gunhauler, are costed as troop carriers and their warscrolls are built around moving troops about. It is why they have always been lacking in armour and damage output. They would not work like other behemoth armies.

 

Actually thinking about it, you could have two warscrolls for each ship, including the gunhauler. One that allows troops to be carried , let's say 3 ballon boys for a gunhauler, 10 foot troops for the frigate and 15 for the ironclads plus the rule for more troops equals movement loss. Then the other warscrolls could be straight up battle ships with higher armour and better weapons but they lose the troop carrying ability.

For the non troop version you could have make different KO heros into the captain of each ship and have them unlock different abilities. An admiral as captain of a ship  could unlock the abilitie to make ships battleline. Khemist could unlock double shoots on a ship etc.

Would require a complete rework but that's what new battletomes are for.

Im not sure how likely it is, but I like the idea of double warscrolls for carriers vs battleships. They would need a way to visually distinguish one from the other on TableTop though. The only way I can think of doing that would be to lock it to the weapon type. Troop carriers have to have great sky hooks and battleships have to have cannons or volley guns for example. 

I see your reasons for why a behemoth (big ship) focused KO subfaction wouldn't work very well. But that isn't necessarily a reason we won't see it. Thundertusk focused BCR battalions and the magmadroth focused fyreslayer Lodge don't really work very well, but they are still in the books for those who want to play it. 

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Would be a shame if the ships were regulated to display pieces again because they were just 'ok' on the tabletop. I have a beastclaw raider army and since the new book I've not ran thundertusks at all, it's stonehorn all the way if I'm running BCR or mixed ogors. 

I will say the new white dwarf and battle box are all about air battles, so I'm interested  to see if that affects how the battletomes are written. 

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How long until AoS specific armies get their big wave 2 updates? I feel like all of them are so limited. I know we are getting a hero up there but remain unconvinced it will be all that big a deal honestly. The same can be said for pretty much any smaller army too. Are we ever getting expanded? 

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3 minutes ago, Barkanaut said:

Are we ever getting expanded? 

Short answer: NO.

Middle answer: NOt yet.

Long answer: NO but...we are arriving at the end of all BT update. So, now, GW can

- add new armies

- add new entries / expend the armies they want. I hope that they won't forget this second point. But for the KO, we have some kind of new way of playing with CoS, am I right?

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KO don’t really need new units, just for all the current units to be viable and it would be nice to have alternative battle line unlocked. 
 

3 ships

2 balloon units 

2 infantry units 

quite a few heroes is sufficient if they’re all good units. 
 

agree that sky ports will probably stay and maybe just with a set of additional army wide rules layered on top. 
 

I do think being fair to GW KO are a hard army to balance. It is a high damage output army focused on range that can also be very fast. 
 

I would like them to have a focus more on skirmish style warfare and positioning rather than just stacking sheer damage output. 

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19 minutes ago, Reuben Parker said:

 

I do think being fair to GW KO are a hard army to balance. It is a high damage output army focused on range that can also be very fast.

Absolutely! Problem is of course that it’s so focussed on one part of the game. I just hope they don’t ‘fix’ that by making the shooting less and the combat more significant. 
I like lobsided armies as it makes for more interesting match ups. But we’ll see in a month :) 

@Soolong I couldn’t find a single copy anywhere yet. Is it already out for sale? 

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I’m getting a little worried about actually securing a copy of the new box after reading some comments relating to Feast of Bones etc. Where am I most likely to secure one? GW site?

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6 minutes ago, ArmyOfGrodd said:

I’m getting a little worried about actually securing a copy of the new box after reading some comments relating to Feast of Bones etc. Where am I most likely to secure one? GW site?

Yeah if you pre order from GW or a local independent game store it will be locked in. 

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Just now, Reuben Parker said:

Yeah if you pre order from GW or a local independent game store it will be locked in. 

Thanks pal, I’ll go that route.

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1 hour ago, Reuben Parker said:

I would like them to have a focus more on skirmish style warfare and positioning rather than just stacking sheer damage output. 

I would like to see that, but don't think that you can achieve that with so many fast closecombat oriented armies. Even if we will have "shooting after retreat" rule it will not help against mv6 or higher armies.

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The whole game and its rules is optimized to play 1500 to 2500 pts armies. But You can have fun with less or nice time with more. 

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1 hour ago, Kramer said:

 

@Soolong I couldn’t find a single copy anywhere yet. Is it already out for sale? 

The new white dwarf? It is out now. My local asda had it , which was odd because they normally do not stock it.

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41 minutes ago, cofaxest said:

I would like to see that, but don't think that you can achieve that with so many fast closecombat oriented armies. Even if we will have "shooting after retreat" rule it will not help against mv6 or higher armies.

I was more thinking expanding out on things they already have like the strike last bombs, thunderers with drill bills and retreat as their attack action (works well in MSU to save the odd unit. Also just adding some additional range to current weapons would help KO not need to one shot things as they would have the range to get a couple of volleys in. 

Currently my favourite way (not best!) is escort wing MSU although it tends to be pillow fisted, a few extra anti charge abilities and maybe making all cannons 2 shots should tip it back. I do feel there’s a very small sweet spot for KO between pillow fisted and overwhelming firepower so will be interesting to see if that gets hit or not. 

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I am very excited to see the Overlords get an update. Timing is perfect too for me to jump back in after Las Vegas Open is in the rear view mirror. With a full collection already the units in the box will be nice to grow a few units without getting anything too wasteful.

After a year of enjoying the army in narrative games only, and sitting through the horrible change to thunderers, I'm just hoping that the boats get better. I would much rather see the frigates and ironclad get buffs/opposing penaltys like terrain pieces have rather then adding another piece of plastic to the field.

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13 hours ago, Kramer said:


Question though: I have only skimmed the sylvaneth book. But how do they divide into three styles? 

The poster was mistaken. They don't really. Some of the stormhosts (glades) give slight bonuses to one thing or another, but you always have the same 3 reasonable infantry Battleline choices. Obviously you can play a lot of treelords or whatnot but that isn't any different than current ko taking minimal arkonauts and then loading up on ships or balloons and would be just as ill-advised for a sylvaneth as it would be here

 

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On 12/25/2019 at 9:46 AM, Gdead909 said:

But this also means that units will be set with what comes in the box. Look at stormfiends and even ironjawz shields. So max weapons will be what’s in the box

I disagree with this premise.  Past products mean nothing.  After all, until a few months ago, everyone KNEW that each 2nd Ed army was ABSOLUTELY going to get new Endless Spells, and faction terrain.  Then we had Cities, Orruks, Mawtribes, etc.

Games Workshop creates warscroll/dataslate weapon options, based on how many boxes the customer is expected to buy.  Thunderers and Storm Fiends were altered because the average player is expected to buy 1-2 boxes or so.  This is not the same situation for Arkhanaughts - a battle line box that players are expected to purchase 3 boxes, minimum.  

I've said this multiple times - I don't believe that the Arkhanaught's weapons configuration will be changing in the slightest.

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