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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion

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Posted (edited)

If Stormfiends have their forced 1 out of 3 model weirndess, I'm pretty sure KO will follow suit. As mentioned before, Sequitors do indeed actually have enough GreatMaces to have half their 10 man box being equipped with the weapons.

 

Remember even 40k is moving far more towards build out of box mentality. Yes you can obviously still have a CSM squad with a lascannon, but a lot of their new characters for example completely rely on their box for their options (or lack of). I mean Primaris Space Marines couldn't take Power Fists until they specifically made a Power Fist upgrade kit. Forget things like Thunderhammers or Combiweapons.

Edited by kenshin620

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I expect there's a new bt coming, which should make them competitive.  The airships are the centerpiece of the army, and it's a shame they're not very competitive. 

I expect Arks to be one of each special person 10.  Not only is there some precedent for this, but GW has said one of the reasons the primaris marines have limited wargear options is feedback that people were unhappy when they don't have all the options in a kit.

Minor wish listing. 

Tie thunderers and gunhaulers together. They're the same merc company. Maybe give gunhaulers a transport capacity, even if it's 0, and can carry up to 5 models at a penalty. 

Add another melee option. Whether that's improving a hero (looking at you admiral), a new unit, or even just redoing an existing (arks with skyhooks better). 

Give some options for dealing mortals wounds. Even if it's a 6+ to wound, it does a mortal in addition to regular damage. 

Give a little more durability. They've still dwarves, but just feel fragile, especially the airships. 

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Man if we're wishlisting, soooo much stuff.

I want a heavy cav unit, some sort of jet bike or power-armored marine who has multiple wounds, IE 3+ and has awesome melee weapons, chainswords, powerfits etc

A unit of heavy elite marines that are purely melee, powered armor like the Admiral or Endrinmaster that gives them a 3+ or similiar with rerolls and they have some sort of jump pack rule that in fluff terms they use to leap from ship to ship to defend against enemy boarding actions or onto enemy ships or fortress walls etc and they use powered hammers like the Super Sledge in Fallout 4 (uses a tiny jet motor to thrust the hammer head forward, hilariously)

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So not to move this thread of wishlisting, although I’m always happy when it does ;), I’m probably attending a doubles one day tournament. Either with Stormcast or daughters of Khaine. It’s 600pts per army, 1 hero, 1 battleline. 

What are your thoughts? 

(of course fun is the number 1 objective but I don’t know the club. so I have no idea if somebody will bring a warpseer with extra 5+ cheezy list. So if I’m able to add something gaming wise, that would be nice ;) ) 

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Mhornar at small  points are great as everyone is around the general. 

Khemist

10 allied dwarf warriors

20 ark sky hooks

3 riggers with saws 

 

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5 hours ago, Reuben Parker said:

Mhornar at small  points are great as everyone is around the general. 

Khemist

10 allied dwarf warriors

20 ark sky hooks

3 riggers with saws 

 

Thanks! Didn’t think of that solution! With twenty ark + khemist you have 200 points left so riggers do leave that awkward gap. I’ll keep it in mind. My solution was 10 thunderers and going urbaz. Or indeed morhnar, and 2x5 thunderers. Especially if I get a knight azyros as support, you can go pretty nuts.  

But if I do go warriors I’ll probably go for skywardens. Just to try out a small base shieldwall and counter pile in with the 2” pikes. Flying over them for objective grabbing if necessary. Seemed like a good suggestion earlier in the thread. If only to try for myself. 

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anyone see the points for the shadespire models in the app? Hope it’s not a sign of things to come.... 260 for the named khemist!!

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Considering expanding my Kharadron force.  This is what I currently have.  It used to add up to 1000 points until, I believe, GHB18.  Now, it's at 900.  First of all, what's your recommendation to get to 1000 points.  Secondly, what would your recommendation(s) be to get to 2000 points?

Arkanaut Admiral
Endrinmaster
2 x 10 Arkanaut Company
1 x Arkanaut Ironclad

Thanks in advance!

SG

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28 minutes ago, nine7six said:

anyone see the points for the shadespire models in the app? Hope it’s not a sign of things to come.... 260 for the named khemist!!

It's combined I think. (that's how the other warbands are scored. Hero and squad need to be taken together. )

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On 4/21/2019 at 10:44 AM, kenshin620 said:

If Stormfiends have their forced 1 out of 3 model weirndess, I'm pretty sure KO will follow suit. As mentioned before, Sequitors do indeed actually have enough GreatMaces to have half their 10 man box being equipped with the weapons.

So I get that this is pretty far afield of KO discussion, but the pedant in me can't let this go.  Apologies.

I am building the Sequitors set right at this moment.  I am looking at the sprues, and I am looking at the instruction booklet.  There are four Greatmaces in a kit.  Not five. Four.

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9 hours ago, nine7six said:

anyone see the points for the shadespire models in the app? Hope it’s not a sign of things to come.... 260 for the named khemist!!

The 260 includes all the other KO in that shadespire team too and they all act independently! Which is awesome.

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6 hours ago, mikethefish said:

So I get that this is pretty far afield of KO discussion, but the pedant in me can't let this go.  Apologies.

I am building the Sequitors set right at this moment.  I am looking at the sprues, and I am looking at the instruction booklet.  There are four Greatmaces in a kit.  Not five. Four.

Ah you're correct I just looked at my prime, whom I built many moons ago and her stowed weapon is a standard hammer, but Ive always run it as a grandhammer, no ones ever cared lol

Doesn't negate the fact that the new whats in the box style rules have been implemented after the Sequitor release.

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Just in a bit of a hobby lull due to not massive amounts of free time. So decided to break out and work on some old unglued KO ships. 

Once these extra ones are all together will have

Ironclad

3 frigates 

3 gun crawler 

Although I would never field them all at once current points put it at 1620 but I’m hoping either GHB or new book gives big reductions. 

When I was looking at them as a theoretical fleet I don’t see more than 1300 points of value there and that’s probably on the high end. 

I think 1 -2 ships is normally worth it either to open up a battalion or just for reducing drops and being a character bunker. In terms of damage output though they’re pretty poor. I would love to see the cannons goto 2d6 damage. 

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5 hours ago, Reuben Parker said:

Just in a bit of a hobby lull due to not massive amounts of free time. So decided to break out and work on some old unglued KO ships. 

Once these extra ones are all together will have

Ironclad

3 frigates 

3 gun crawler 

Although I would never field them all at once current points put it at 1620 but I’m hoping either GHB or new book gives big reductions. 

When I was looking at them as a theoretical fleet I don’t see more than 1300 points of value there and that’s probably on the high end. 

I think 1 -2 ships is normally worth it either to open up a battalion or just for reducing drops and being a character bunker. In terms of damage output though they’re pretty poor. I would love to see the cannons goto 2d6 damage. 

Yeah I agree they are to expensive for their damage output . But I will add that they are also priced for being a mobile transport. Now the rules hurt them fulfilling that role pretty bad. But that’s what they are also priced for. An unique ability only found in our faction. 

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4 hours ago, Kramer said:

Yeah I agree they are to expensive for their damage output . But I will add that they are also priced for being a mobile transport. Now the rules hurt them fulfilling that role pretty bad. But that’s what they are also priced for. An unique ability only found in our faction. 

Indeed they have lots of extra rules with healing , bombs, transport etc.

when you break down something like the gun crawler a pure damage dealer without buffs it only averages

Just less than 1.5 at -2 and 0.6 at -1 for its shooting and just over 1 no rend in melee. For 160 points that’s  terrible damage output. They shouldnt be more than 120 and I could even see them at lower than that. Amusingly they were originally pointed at 220.

again I think the issue is the design team over value the special rules. As it has defensive mines and can take damage for other ships. 

—-

however I’m keeping the faith that a new book / update is going to fix the outliers. 

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Posted (edited)

I’m introducing a buddy to the game on Saturday; he’s going to play my new Stormcast army I haven’t even played yet, and I’ll field KO. I was writing the lists and I realized that, sure, I can play to the objectives and hope for the best but there are units we straight up can’t deal with.

For example, I gave him a block of 20 Sequitors that he will, at my direction, buff with Staunch Defender, Warding Lantern (from a Castellant), Mystic Shield and Azyrite Halo. He will have a 2+ save re-rolling 1s and 6s will deal MW’s back to me. The only way to deal with this unit is to have something that deals MW; but we really don’t. Nothing compared to others out there. It hadn’t previously been on my wishlist but I sincerely hope we get something (maybe an endless spell equivalent) that consistently deals at least D6 MW because this isn’t the only example of a unit we really can’t handle.

My plan, by the way, aside from focusing on objectives is to ignore this unit as best I can; use grapnel launchers to vault 12 Riggers behind his line and multi assault the rest of his stuff. I’ll use my 20 Thunderers with rifles to shoot his heroes.

Edited by Serpico

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The usual khemist & skyhook arkanaut blob would do fine wouldnt it? You can probably hit the general before they get to you if they're keeping in defender range. And if the generals the castellant thats two birds with one stone.

And against the sequitors youll take some mortal wounds but not that much if you're using multi-damage weapons from afar.  Thunderers would take more MW and hooks rend -2 puts a fair dent in them

I think compared to armies that only have magical ranged options we've got it pretty good for picking apart character bonus synergies.

At least thats what I've found with my main opponent who plays death. Usually i have trouble with all the hordes left over that come back and getting onto objectives to score.

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Been looking at the Shadespire warband’s weapon profiles. I’m pretty sure they’re a sign of some changes headed towards to boat-dwarves. I know the squig attacks became exactly what the updated Shadespire squigs were!

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On 4/25/2019 at 2:03 AM, Serpico said:

I’m introducing a buddy to the game on Saturday; he’s going to play my new Stormcast army I haven’t even played yet, and I’ll field KO. I was writing the lists and I realized that, sure, I can play to the objectives and hope for the best but there are units we straight up can’t deal with.

For example, I gave him a block of 20 Sequitors that he will, at my direction, buff with Staunch Defender, Warding Lantern (from a Castellant), Mystic Shield and Azyrite Halo. He will have a 2+ save re-rolling 1s and 6s will deal MW’s back to me. The only way to deal with this unit is to have something that deals MW; but we really don’t. Nothing compared to others out there. It hadn’t previously been on my wishlist but I sincerely hope we get something (maybe an endless spell equivalent) that consistently deals at least D6 MW because this isn’t the only example of a unit we really can’t handle.

My plan, by the way, aside from focusing on objectives is to ignore this unit as best I can; use grapnel launchers to vault 12 Riggers behind his line and multi assault the rest of his stuff. I’ll use my 20 Thunderers with rifles to shoot his heroes.

Well The 20 blob sequitors are hard as nails but not just to us. Also it’s 480 pts plus 100 for the castalent. If he puts them on the table he’ll have some walking time so plenty of time to take things out. More

The alternative is that he drops them in. Give him turn one (especially if you play ziflin) Make sure you have a big blob + 2x 10 squads. Screen with your 10’s just in case he makes the charge. 

Drop your thunderers. Get your arkanauts and riggers in range of the khemists. Take out the castelant first. Staunch defender requires wholly within  9” so he can’t be far. If they didn’t charge still take him out to present buffs next turn. Dropping in is at the end of the movement phase, so the other buffs are not up yet.  

Now beforehand do some math hammering  for that scenario. I don’t know what will be most efficient. Taking the castalent out with the skyhooks and buffing the pistols for just a sh*tload of shots. Or do you need the charge of the buffed endrinriggers vs buffed thunderers? 

I feel that’s how KO is supposed to play. He offers you a big threat and now you need to take it out. Don’t spread out, hyper focus on it and try to block a bit for the second wave. Also you have the added benefit of a potential second turn right after. 

In the other scenario, where he walks the unit, take first turn if you have the option and chance to take out the Lord-castelant and other hero’s. If you manage to sacrifice your thunderers and frigate (?) but in return you take out his synergies and source of translocation if he has it plus slowing his big unit down a turn it’s more than worth it. You move up to the objectives with the riggers for some early points get some additions skyhooks shots of on different targets or the sequitors depending on the situation. 

As to the lack of mortal wounds... I hope that we don’t lose our character. It should be tons of rending attacks and not (magical) mortal wounds. Same for endless prayers/sciences or whatever 💁‍♂️

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Posted (edited)

*looks up Thundrik’s Profiteers*

Extra attack on arkanaut cutters?  Yay!  Although, is Garodd a regular arkanaut or a captain?

No rend on the privateer pistols? Boo!  They’re guns!  They deserve rend!  Boo! 

Aetheric Augmentation still only effects one weapon type?  Boo! 

But they’re nice models so I’m happy overall. XD

Edited by Arkanaut Admiral

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10 hours ago, Kramer said:

Well The 20 blob sequitors are hard as nails but not just to us. Also it’s 480 pts plus 100 for the castalent. If he puts them on the table he’ll have some walking time so plenty of time to take things out. More

The alternative is that he drops them in. Give him turn one (especially if you play ziflin) Make sure you have a big blob + 2x 10 squads. Screen with your 10’s just in case he makes the charge. 

Drop your thunderers. Get your arkanauts and riggers in range of the khemists. Take out the castelant first. Staunch defender requires wholly within  9” so he can’t be far. If they didn’t charge still take him out to present buffs next turn. Dropping in is at the end of the movement phase, so the other buffs are not up yet.  

Now beforehand do some math hammering  for that scenario. I don’t know what will be most efficient. Taking the castalent out with the skyhooks and buffing the pistols for just a sh*tload of shots. Or do you need the charge of the buffed endrinriggers vs buffed thunderers? 

I feel that’s how KO is supposed to play. He offers you a big threat and now you need to take it out. Don’t spread out, hyper focus on it and try to block a bit for the second wave. Also you have the added benefit of a potential second turn right after. 

In the other scenario, where he walks the unit, take first turn if you have the option and chance to take out the Lord-castelant and other hero’s. If you manage to sacrifice your thunderers and frigate (?) but in return you take out his synergies and source of translocation if he has it plus slowing his big unit down a turn it’s more than worth it. You move up to the objectives with the riggers for some early points get some additions skyhooks shots of on different targets or the sequitors depending on the situation. 

As to the lack of mortal wounds... I hope that we don’t lose our character. It should be tons of rending attacks and not (magical) mortal wounds. Same for endless prayers/sciences or whatever 💁‍♂️

If you take a block of 20 the Sequitors are actually only 400p; so it’s even nastier. I’ll have to see how he deploys but I have a feeling he’ll just deploy everything except maybe the Judicators to drop on an objective. I will focus on his heroes. I think I’ll put a squad of Arkanauts and Brokk in the Frigate to drop in an objective; I’ll deploy everything else bc the balloon bois are fast enough especially with the grapnels. I don’t expect to win but it does depend o the mission.

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8 minutes ago, Serpico said:

If you take a block of 20 the Sequitors are actually only 400p; so it’s even nastier. I’ll have to see how he deploys but I have a feeling he’ll just deploy everything except maybe the Judicators to drop on an objective. I will focus on his heroes. I think I’ll put a squad of Arkanauts and Brokk in the Frigate to drop in an objective; I’ll deploy everything else bc the balloon bois are fast enough especially with the grapnels. I don’t expect to win but it does depend o the mission.

Forgot about that discount! Good call. 

Why move brokk forwards with the frigate? I haven’t played him, but looking at his warscroll don’t you want him in a counter punch? Keep him back a bit so he can respond? 

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38 minutes ago, Kramer said:

Forgot about that discount! Good call. 

Why move brokk forwards with the frigate? I haven’t played him, but looking at his warscroll don’t you want him in a counter punch? Keep him back a bit so he can respond? 

Maybe; don’t know the mission yet but 10 Arkanauts on their own can’t take an objective from my grandmother.

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2 minutes ago, Serpico said:

Maybe; don’t know the mission yet but 10 Arkanauts on their own can’t take an objective from my grandmother.

Haha true enough. 

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38 minutes ago, Kramer said:

Forgot about that discount! Good call. 

Why move brokk forwards with the frigate? I haven’t played him, but looking at his warscroll don’t you want him in a counter punch? Keep him back a bit so he can respond? 

Maybe; don’t know the mission yet but 10 Arkanauts on their own can’t take an objective from my grandmother.

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