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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion

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2 minutes ago, Badlander86 said:

Short answer? To make magic more appealing.

I’m am perfectly fine with some duardin  crafted magic rings and artifacts that work like everyone else’s spells. Heck, how about a aether gas powered flying, heat seeking bomb?

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4 hours ago, WatcherintheWater said:

Question. Is there no longer a way to disembark when you drop in with the Zilfin endrins anymore? Guessing not since you have to pile out at the start of the phase...

Atmospheric Endrins: “At the beginning of any of your Hero phases, this vessel can descend.”

Errata: Change the first sentence to:
‘At the start of your hero phase, any friendly units embarked within this model can disembark.’

 

Why do people think Begin and Start are different?  The words are synonyms so doesn’t this mean that you choose which one to do first?

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5 minutes ago, Sactownbri said:

I’m am perfectly fine with some duardin  crafted magic rings and artifacts that work like everyone else’s spells. Heck, how about a aether gas powered flying, heat seeking bomb?

I think its a case of being written into a corner rules wise. I harken this back to Tau and the "no psykers" perceived weakness. KO are in a simlar situation. 7th Ed was heavy on the Psychic Phase which for the most part was pointless to Tau and they were still an army with questionable statlines.

I guess it depends on how GW wants to swing this. Are KO an Elite shooty army or a shooty tanky armor or a glass hammer? Its a case of them having these awesome model designs, told to make some rules (FYI, GW games testing and rules has confirmed that they get the Model designs first then come up with the rules for them. I cite the interviews that MiniWarGaming did with some members of GW) but to ensure they weren't too good.

Let's face some facts:

- Stormcast Eternals are the face of the game. So they have to be good enough to play, a little above the curve and easy to paint and assemble. So it makes sense for GW to push these out as much as possible.

- Death for a longer time had cool models but lacklustre rules and little to no narrative but now they are the face of the main opposition in this edition so likewise with the first, they SHOULD  be easy to pick up and above the curve.

- Game balance is a questionable concept and most game systems get it wrong. Yes, the Overlords are in a questionable spot points and statwise but I have seen people do wonders with lower tiers lists and decks in other games. This feels like a skill-tester army at this point.

- The Overlords fluff don't really lend themselves well to taking part of the larger narrative in the current lore.

 

 

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18 minutes ago, Sactownbri said:

I’m am perfectly fine with some duardin  crafted magic rings and artifacts that work like everyone else’s spells. Heck, how about a aether gas powered flying, heat seeking bomb?

That would require a rules system on some form of allegiance ability onto itself. Maybe if there is a wider Duardin allegiance that can be expanded to include options for Aether weapons or Runes or very special traits. It would motivate me to consider purchasing outside of my current faction.

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So the grapnel Errata says you cant be within 3" of enemy at any point in the move, so cant move over other units now?   If it just meant at the end it would have said that? (we see that wording everywhere).  So its worded as it were a normal move, for someone walking on the ground, not like a flying move? 

How do we use grapnels now?

  • Moving up early game? (i do this now, i call it the suicide move)
  • Hold back and jump across to plug gaps?
  • Wait until youve shot everyone off the board and then jump to an objective?

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why gw hate KO ?  grapnefr kill last work list (

Edited by azmarus

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7 hours ago, Badlander86 said:

I think its a case of being written into a corner rules wise. I harken this back to Tau and the "no psykers" perceived weakness. KO are in a simlar situation. 7th Ed was heavy on the Psychic Phase which for the most part was pointless to Tau and they were still an army with questionable statlines.

I guess it depends on how GW wants to swing this. Are KO an Elite shooty army or a shooty tanky armor or a glass hammer? Its a case of them having these awesome model designs, told to make some rules (FYI, GW games testing and rules has confirmed that they get the Model designs first then come up with the rules for them. I cite the interviews that MiniWarGaming did with some members of GW) but to ensure they weren't too good.

Let's face some facts:

- Stormcast Eternals are the face of the game. So they have to be good enough to play, a little above the curve and easy to paint and assemble. So it makes sense for GW to push these out as much as possible.

- Death for a longer time had cool models but lacklustre rules and little to no narrative but now they are the face of the main opposition in this edition so likewise with the first, they SHOULD  be easy to pick up and above the curve.

- Game balance is a questionable concept and most game systems get it wrong. Yes, the Overlords are in a questionable spot points and statwise but I have seen people do wonders with lower tiers lists and decks in other games. This feels like a skill-tester army at this point.

- The Overlords fluff don't really lend themselves well to taking part of the larger narrative in the current lore.

 

 

The KO literally use magic guns. In the KO novel they find a supercharged vein of aether gas. Seems like they would fit right in with over powered steampunk magical device shenanigans.

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13 minutes ago, Sactownbri said:

The KO literally use magic guns. In the KO novel they find a supercharged vein of aether gas. Seems like they would fit right in with over powered steampunk magical device shenanigans.

In novel a lot of things happens. Navigator is usefull with his "heart seeking bullets" ranging pistol, Grundstock Thunderers Sergeant carry Decksweeper (for some reason), Khemist buff all the guns of Thunderers, both Arkanaut Company and Thunderes can melee/shoot from the deck, Supremacy Mine can be reloaded. Dont trust novels too much, it's like vacation buleeten.

One thing which seems to be correct is that both Frigates and Ironclads die like a flies.

Oh and almost noone mentions Gunhaulers so yet another similarity 😜

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KO are dead competitively, and this makes me sad because the NOVA Open tickets I bought are non-refundable and now I don't have time to get another army ready.

 

If I drank, I would be drunk right now.

  • Sad 1

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2 hours ago, High Overlord Xenu said:

KO are dead competitively, and this makes me sad because the NOVA Open tickets I bought are non-refundable and now I don't have time to get another army ready.

 

If I drank, I would be drunk right now.

Might be a silly question but is NOVA based in America?

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I said it before and I'll say it again; we need the garrison rules adapted to replace our current system of embarking and disembarking.  With that done, all of our forces could then fight from the ships as described in the fluff and depicted in the artwork.

Our firearms need a boost.  All of them should wound on at least a 3+ and have at least -1 Rend, just like the firearms of other races.

The three ships need their saves boosted to 3+.  That's right, all of them.  They then need either a further boost, or to have their prices slashed again.  

I'm not kidding around.  My win rate with KO as a percentage is a single digit.  Other factions just delete our units at a touch and soak up everything we shoot back in return.  Time to address the balance!  

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You know... GW could have easily put summoning in for KO. Something to the tune of a reinforcement beacon that takes time to charge and depending on how long it goes, you earn points etc. Then you could spend them to bring in a new unit of some sort. Like, the navigator plotting a course for reinforcements. It would be very thematic as a new ship or troops descend to the battlefield via ropes or parachutes.

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1 hour ago, High Overlord Xenu said:

Yeah, Washington DC 

Darn thought it may have been U.K based.

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So.... I was just thinking of picking up some Kharadron forces.  I have the book, but I'm not that familiar with how the army used to be.  Can anyone run down the major new pros and cons?  Reading through the above discussion, I feel like I'm missing something.  

Here's a quick test model I painted this week:

 

KO Test Paint.jpg

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36 minutes ago, DocNacho said:

You know... GW could have easily put summoning in for KO. Something to the tune of a reinforcement beacon that takes time to charge and depending on how long it goes, you earn points etc. Then you could spend them to bring in a new unit of some sort. Like, the navigator plotting a course for reinforcements. It would be very thematic as a new ship or troops descend to the battlefield via ropes or parachutes.

I totally agree with this , it’s something I’ve thought since all the summoning was announced . You could’ve had tokens on the battlefield that you need to collect as your resource to summon 

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37 minutes ago, Gemzo said:

So.... I was just thinking of picking up some Kharadron forces.  I have the book, but I'm not that familiar with how the army used to be.  Can anyone run down the major new pros and cons?  Reading through the above discussion, I feel like I'm missing something.  

Here's a quick test model I painted this week:

 

KO Test Paint.jpg

That is a sweet model!  Lovely contrast!

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4 hours ago, Gemzo said:

So.... I was just thinking of picking up some Kharadron forces.  I have the book, but I'm not that familiar with how the army used to be.  Can anyone run down the major new pros and cons?  Reading through the above discussion, I feel like I'm missing something.  

Here's a quick test model I painted this week:

 

KO Test Paint.jpg

Very nice! Did you use Non-Metallic Metals painting techniques on the swords?

Don't let the overall salt of the thread discourage you from the hobby. The Kharadron Overlords are still fine kits and models and I am happy I took the time to build and paint them in my hobby time. 

Pain in the ass to transport though. No helping that I am afraid. Stats and rules can be change, physics not so much.

 

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9 minutes ago, Badlander86 said:

Very nice! Did you use Non-Metallic Metals painting techniques on the swords?

 

 

 

 

 

I tried to use some NMM techniques, as far as where to place the highlights, but it's all painted with actual metallic paints.  Start to finish, it was about an hour to paint him, so I could knock out a bunch reasonably quickly, then spend more time on the ships (which is why everyone gets into KO).

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I am actually having a bit of Painters' regret on my models as the Barak Urbaz colors are warming up to me, especially the blue steel look of some of the metal bits. Unfortunately I havent seen much more concept art or photography to see how the paint scheme of Urbaz ships look like.

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On ‎6‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 2:02 PM, Luke.w said:

Grapnel launcher nerf? Did I read that right? Can no longer move within 3" of enemy units at any point during the move.

Well, I'm not actually sure how this affects us, as they fly, so technically they are not within 3" or any unit during the move until they "land", right?  I think it is just clarifying that we can't use the grapnel launchers to end up closer than 3" of any unit. 

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59 minutes ago, FractalRain said:

Well, I'm not actually sure how this affects us, as they fly, so technically they are not within 3" or any unit during the move until they "land", right?  I think it is just clarifying that we can't use the grapnel launchers to end up closer than 3" of any unit. 

Maybe you are right, the fly rules state a model can pass across etc. when it makes any move.  Just with the grapnel being an ability and the very specific wording I think it might cause arguments.

Edited by stato

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13 minutes ago, FractalRain said:

Well, I'm not actually sure how this affects us, as they fly, so technically they are not within 3" or any unit during the move until they "land", right?  I think it is just clarifying that we can't use the grapnel launchers to end up closer than 3" of any unit. 

You might be right actually. He wording fo fly from the rules says that "verical distance is ignored whenaking a fly move". Therefore you can move with grapnels over enemy units and be more than 3" away from them as you can techncally fly infinitely high. 

This does still mean that you can't shoot them out of combat though so it is still a nerf just not as bad.

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