AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion

[Kramer]

33 minutes ago, Luzgurbel said:

1. Thryng's battalion grants you another Frigate to the Escort, so you can have 2 Frigates with the props of the Escort.

2. I don't think you can use that reroll to achieve he maximum grudge. The reroll says "any phase", but the grudge are setted before the battle begins, so no phase has been played.

3.  I agree with the rest. I just need to buy a Frigate (or 2) and start playing.

1. Good call. Then the frigate because more worth it in my mind. But then why not add the 5 and 10 thunderers together for the khemist buff? Or will you be moving them forward? Just curious to hear the general gameplan  

2. Yeah, my thought too. Hoping for someone with magical faq to help  

[Arkanaut Admiral]

9 hours ago, Kramer said:

Oh, then please don’t  Have you tried playing without ships? 

Haha, the table of 120 is now forever embedded in my mind. 

I have.  Last four games or so I’ve ditched them for the most part.  Getting much better results too.  Even won a game.

It shouldn’t be that way though.  The ships should be the main draw of the force, not an ineffective points sink.

[Kramer]

9 minutes ago, Arkanaut Admiral said:

I have.  Last four games or so I’ve ditched them for the most part.  Getting much better results too.  Even won a game.

It shouldn’t be that way though.  The ships should be the main draw of the force, not an ineffective points sink.

Again fully agree on the last part. I think @Luzgurbel Thryng Escort wing sounds interesting. Combined with thunderers with all rifles those are next things to try out. 

Just paint two more start collecting to be wysiwyg ?

[Luzgurbel]

General battleplan? I'm like the Heath's Joker: I'm like a dog chasing cars, I won't know what to do if I catch one haha

Edited November 9, 2018 by Luzgurbel

[RaritanAnon]

So I've played a few 1k games and I fail to see the appeal of boats, in game. Very unreliable and very squishy. Whereas even the arkanauts have very good damage output with their pistols. So I'm considering a no-boat list. Here's my thoughts so far. 

Khemist is a must have. 

Brokk can shine, but will likely be targeted first. 

Admiral can be useful for his 12" battleshock immunity bubble. 

Navigator and Endrinmaster are useless. 

Arkanauts are great. Take big numbers of them, maybe? Skypikes and Skyhooks both shine. 

Endrinriggers are still really good, but without a boat to hitch to, they're very fragile, and lose out on their repair boats ability. 

Thunderers with rifles (and maybe a fumigator) are really nice, especially buffed. Cheap, too. 

Skywardens seem the oddball. They have better to-hit and range with the Volley Guns. They can also take Drill Cannons, which is access to mortal wounds that we otherwise lack. Their Skypikes also are arguably more reliable than Rigger saws, since you get more attacks. 

For Skyports, I think Mhornar, or Urbaz are the best two. There's interest in perhaps doing a single Ironclad, since it's the most damaging and reliable boat, with more than a single shot. But that's a lot of points, too. 

[Luzgurbel]

Navigator and Master useless? Why? Navigator for dispelling and Master for cc damage outputting.

[Nick907]

I think the Endrinmaster is the best hero in the army. He repairs d3 wounds on sky vessels. The khemist is only better if you really want to augment specialty weapons like Skyhooks or saws, but this makes the Khemist an easy priority target. Meanwhile the Endrinmaster is safely embarked on  a skyvessel. If you want your ships to do work then the Endrinmaster is legit. 

[MacDuff]

KO ships need a big power boost. And new ships - I want a sky sub! Look at how making Orks more mobile is reinvigorating that army.

[RaritanAnon]

6 hours ago, Luzgurbel said:

Navigator and Master useless? Why? Navigator for dispelling and Master for cc damage outputting.

The way I see it, both heroes are okay in a single use, but in a NoBoat list they aren't as useful. One dispel might as well be none and there's no boats to repair. 

5 hours ago, Nick907 said:

I think the Endrinmaster is the best hero in the army. He repairs d3 wounds on sky vessels. The khemist is only better if you really want to augment specialty weapons like Skyhooks or saws, but this makes the Khemist an easy priority target. Meanwhile the Endrinmaster is safely embarked on  a skyvessel. If you want your ships to do work then the Endrinmaster is legit. 

You say safely like boats aren't the first thing targeted in any game. Especially once the enemy finds out they flat out die, no saves, on a 1.

[Funstock Funhauler]

If you are running boat lists, the navigator is really good. The d3 movement buff he gives frigates is important.

[Nick907]

1 hour ago, RaritanAnon said:

You say safely like boats aren't the first thing targeted in any game. Especially once the enemy finds out they flat out die, no saves, on a 1.

Well the Khemist cannot augment while embarked, but the Endrinmaster can still repair. So yeah, it's safer inside a boat then outside. 

[Lord Panther]

A couple of new additions to my KO. Have got a unit of 5 thunderers with rifles on the painting table as well.

Well they said ally in a Wizard.

[stato]

Had 2 fun games with my Kharadrons this weekend.

List was...

Brokk Grungsson (260)
Aether-Khemist (160)
- General
- Trait: Opportunistic Privateers 
30 x Arkanaut Company (360)
10 x Arkanaut Company (120)
10 x Arkanaut Company (120)
6 x Endrinriggers (240)
6 x Endrinriggers (240)
3 x Skywardens (120)

3 x Skywardens (120)
Arkanaut Frigate (240)
Total: 1980 / 2000

1st Game against Skaven,  Relocation Orb - hate this one.

I had first turn, pushed forward hard, shot off 2 Warp lightening cannons, bunch of clanrats and half a unit of stormfiends. In return he charged me with clanrats and put the Stormfiends into my Frigate, which survived the turn, but was outnumbered on the Orb so he took 3 points.

Turn 2, orb moves away from me into range of his 40 clanrats. He took the double turn (our mistake, we both rolled a one and thought it meant he went first not me, we were both quite drunk at this points).  Clanrats swarm the objective and tie up all my shooting elsewhere (they can retreat and charge so tied up all my units with chaff), frigate dies to stormfiends.  In return i killed some heros which meant no auto-pass for morale but even so only managed to take off 20 clanrats from his 40 so didnt steal the Orb.

Turn 3, orb moves towards me but ive got no numbers near it to take it off him.  I take the turn, kill some stuff, but not enough, he will regain the Orb and have unassailable lead so I call the game.  I think if I had got 2nd turn (like I should) then it would have been different. First time using Brokk, need to work out how to integrate him into my tactics.

 

2nd Game against Aleven Dragonlords. Blood and Glory.

He had 4x5 Dragonblade Knights, 3 dragons, 2 battallions, a Stormcast ballista.

1st turn. I went first and moved everything towards a Dragon and 10 Knights.  The 6 Skywardens, boat, and Brokk killed Dragon, 5 knights and 2 from 2nd unit. Didnt even get to shoot my big unit of Arkanuats or charge with riggers, by far my best shooting with Wardens and Boat in a game ever! I also grapnelled in 6 riggers to the centre of his deployment and killed his ballista with a charge.  In return he wiped out my entire right flank (which was the other 2x10 arkanauts) but had to leave a Dragon back to kill the riggers in his deployment zone. Charged the frigate with 3 remaining knights, not much damage as I did kill one with grudge bombs (another first for my frigate!)

2nd turn. I went first, took off his second dragon and a bunch of knights. I forgot about the Mhornar ability to fight once in my hero phase, which would have killed some knights tying up Brokk letting him move away and charge elsewhere. Failed a grapnel leaving riggers exposed. In return his dragon came in and killed Brokk, frigate and most of my 30 Arkanauts and the riggers got charged and slaughtered by his last 5 knights.

3rd turn. He got priority. Took out my khemist and 2 remaining Arkanauts to take the objective, his knights charged the remaining Skywardens and took off a few and i took out a few knights in response (i was having good luck with Skypikes this game too).  But with that he had won a major and so the game ended.

I think I missed some points out, but thats most of the key actions. We both had good and bad luck but it was an epic game, swinging wildly in both directions. I forgot a few things which would have helped but had some good luck in others. There was a good amount of LoS blocking scenery which stopped me maximising my 30 unit of skyhooks but it also meant his dragons and knights had to position carefully to either get cover or be in range to actually position there base to complete charges. Smaller units of riggers are good i think, they can be used tactically to take out key heros or units (ballista) and leave a threat the enemy has to go after, this can leave them out of position. This is also why i run Wardens in units of 3, they will never by buffed by a Khemist so having them scatter and present multiple targets to be dealt with is quite good.

If anyone has any good tips for Brokk id love to hear them.

 

 

Edited November 12, 2018 by stato

[BWG Cannonball]

Hellooooo Ladies and Gentlebeards!

 

I was in Rochester, NY over the weekend at the Da Boyz GT with my Sky-Dorfs.  I ended up placing 22nd out of 56(ish?  I think?).  I went 2 wins and 3 losses, with 2 of the losses being quite close, and 1 loss being a blow out unfortunately.  My 1 win was quite hardy and the 2nd was fairly close as well.  Overall I think the list performed well, and I think some of the errors were on my behalf of getting to hungry for some objectives/kills.  Below is the list I used.

Allegiance: Kharadron Overlords
Mortal Realm: Ghur

Skyport: Barak-Mhornar
- Additional Footnote: There's No Trading With Some People

Leaders
Aether-Khemist (160)
- General
- Trait: Opportunistic Privateers
- Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm
Aether-Khemist (160)
- Artefact: Rockjaws

Battleline
30 x Arkanaut Company (360)
- 9x Light Skyhooks
20 x Arkanaut Company (240)
- 6x Light Skyhooks
10 x Arkanaut Company (120)
- 3x Light Skyhooks

Units
5 x Grundstok Thunderers (100)
- 5x Aethershot Rifles
6 x Endrinriggers (240)

War Machines
Arkanaut Frigate (240)
- Main Gun: Heavy Sky Cannon
- Great Endrinworks: The Last Word
Arkanaut Frigate (240)
- Main Gun: Heavy Sky Cannon
- Great Endrinworks: Malefic Skymines

Battalions
Iron Sky Squadron (130)

 

List worked out well overall.  I'm not sure if I would change much, I think it's more I need to work out the tactics a bit better.

 

First Match - Loss - Nurgle

First match was against 2 Great Unclean Ones and a Rotigus.  There were a few small spats of plaguebearers and a large squad of the Plague Drone fly dudes.  The Drones did the most amount of damage for sure, and I simply couldn't do enough damage to cut through the Disgusting Resilience.  I managed to take out 2 of the GUOs but it wasn't enough to come out on top.

Second Match - Win - Moonclan Grots

60 man block of moonclan along with a Hag, multiple varieties of Big, Medium, and Small Squigs, and a grot artillery cannon thing.  I was able to shoot down the big guys in first turn and then it was a matter of slowly chipping away at the grots for a win.

Third Match - Loss - Blades of Khorne

This was a close one and came down to some tactical mistakes on my part.  I went for objectives to win, rather than go for a tie and hopefully pull something off through secondaries.  He ran Gore Pilgrims, a Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage (with some nasty Mortal Wound AOE output) and Skarbrand.  I managed to rip up most of his lines and forced him to summon multiple squads of bloodletters, but I couldn't kill off enough at the very end in order to hold the middle objective and lost by 2 points.

Fourth Match - Loss - Clan Pestilens

200 PLAGUE MONKS.  I want to start with that statement.  We played Better Part of Valour which ended up being a nail biter.  I managed to kill his Verminlord, Big Machine Feel No Pain thing, and about 170 plague monks, but a bad run move on my part didn't get me close enough to burn the one objective in his deployment zone.  I believe this one was a 2 point difference as well.  I know I screwed up here by not using the command ability for an auto-6" run.

Fifth Match - Win - Stormcast

This I'm very proud of simply because it was Places of Arcane Power (a mission I despise) against a Sacrosanct Stormcast army.  He deep struck in half his units and failed a few key charges.  First turn prior to his deep strikes I managed to rip up two units of Sequitors, a Lord Arcanum, and an Incantor.  His failed charges and my ability to keep priority meant I was able to toss a ridiculous amount of skyhooks at units and fire him down.  He had an 8 man unit of Sequitors and Castellant left, having started with; a 10 man and 2 five mans, an Incantor, Castellant, Lord Arcanum on Gryph-Thing, 3 Evocators on Gryph-Things, 10 Evocators, and a small unit of allied Khinari Heartrender ladies.

 

Overall, I'm happy having been the only representative of Kharadron Overlords at the event and placing in the top half overall.  Looking forward to trying to perfect the list a little more.

 

[Luzgurbel]

Good job mate! 200 plague monks, wow!

 

Why 5x5 Thunderes? Why not 2x10 and one more of 5? Units of 10 get an amazing boost from Khemist, and in your list, playing 2 Khemist + trait...

 

Ok, nothing, they are only 5, I've read, dunno why, 5x5.

Edited November 13, 2018 by Luzgurbel

[BWG Cannonball]

Thanks @Luzgurbel!

The plague monks one was rough.  Especially since he was able to warp-grinder deep strike in 40 of them as well on my back line.  I had to move up to be in range of hitting some of his more meatier items, but it ended up revealing my back line a bit too much.

[Luzgurbel]

What about transform 10 Companies into 5 Thundereres and have a unit of 10 Thunderers + Khemist? So, one Khemist buffs the 30 blob and the other the Thunderers. 

[Reuben Parker]

I would definitely put earburster into the list. KO General need help vs mass low value wounds (although your list is actually quite good there) and it really helps in those matchups. I think your list has all the tools to easily handle the 200 plague monk list. Maybe just need to work on the screening tactics and being in depth of lines as Arkanaut between pistol and cutters shred them and your bringing 60. Add in once per game free pile in the hero phase as well. 

 

Your skyhooks pick off their characters so they can’t IP then pistols and cutters shred the big blobs. 

[BWG Cannonball]

I thought about boosting up the Thunderers to 10 as that's what I had run often in the past.  My only thing was I like a bit of duplicates in terms of damage output, which was why I kept the 20 man Arkanaut in.  Alternatively I could drop the Endrinriggers down to 3 as a small harassment unit and boost the Thunderers up to 10.  Something to contemplate for sure.

I'm trying to think what other relics would work well.  I like the Earbuster, but the only problem I found with it was most armies anymore have so many tools to try and lower battleshock.  For instance with the Skaven, they're getting +2 Bravery for every 10 in each squad.  I wasn't wiping guys with battleshock until it got down to the last bits and pieces.  I do wish Cutters hit a little better.

[Barkanaut]

Right now they are collecting feedback on AoS facebook about points changes you would like to see in generals handbook. I was worried we would get drowned out but its pretty obvious we're an army in dire need going by all the comments about our army. Still it always helps to leave feedback and opinions. 

[Reuben Parker]

2 hours ago, Barkanaut said:

Right now they are collecting feedback on AoS facebook about points changes you would like to see in generals handbook. I was worried we would get drowned out but its pretty obvious we're an army in dire need going by all the comments about our army. Still it always helps to leave feedback and opinions. 

KO I think are an army that are very hard to point correctly. As the tipping point where too cheap and the fire power just deletes isn’t that far off. Obviously overall a bit cheaper but maybe just shaving a few points here and there rather than anything drastic. Enough to allow a normal list to run one or two extra of the cheap units.

[Barkanaut]

16 minutes ago, Reuben Parker said:

KO I think are an army that are very hard to point correctly. As the tipping point where too cheap and the fire power just deletes isn’t that far off. Obviously overall a bit cheaper but maybe just shaving a few points here and there rather than anything drastic. Enough to allow a normal list to run one or two extra of the cheap units.

Considering you can count on one hands the amount of times we've been in the top 50 in a year I don't think they have anything to be afraid of buffing. You mat get just past two hands if you count to top 100. To say our army is terrible is a joke at this point and its scaring people away from the army. I don't think its hard at all I just think there are other reasons why and one of the biggest ones was the ITC people don't like the KO so naturally they made them bad and kept making them bad continuously for every update. It's ridiculous. KO have always had one good build and terrible internal balance. The only time KO could ever be called OP was when they first launched and they had super powerful thunderers which were nerfed correctly and then kept getting nerfs more and more nerfs. Also to truly make KO more viable in builds they need to give us more access to melee and buff and debuff units then. Let us play around with making different units battle line with unique hero's. Our army is so pigeonholed currently and a new model update can't come fast enough to give us more options. 

[Reuben Parker]

So has anyone had any joy with a Mhornar escort wing?

 

thinking about picking up a start collecting as that will get me to 4 gun haulers. In theory I see it being a board control type army kill their couple of biggest threats then spread out on objectives. Interested to hear if it worked for people as saw it discussed earlier. My main concern is damage output as it seems on the low end for a KO list. 

[Reuben Parker]

Double post but I was at a tournament over the weekend chatting with another KO player and it got me thinking. 

Please excuse this long post as I have been exploring a few things in my mind that I wanted to get down.

There has been a lot of talk about how KO are bad but not really anything on the good so I wanted to deconstruct that first (the bad we know). Also as always these are just opinions from me so feel free to disagree.

Good

Low drop army (quite easy for one drop if wanted)

Best ranged firepower in the game

Best army wide rend in the game with a lot of access to -2

Good speed and ability for board control

Flexibility (the army isn't really tied to one unit or build)

----------------------

Best units by role

Skirmish screen - 5 man carbine thunderer unit (very underrated unit, average 4 -1 saves  per volley, do mortal wounds against chargers and can potentially flee before even swung at. Also can charge them forward in your turn then activate and retreat and run to get onto objectives deep on your opponents side.)

Fire base - 30/40 man arkanaut unit with skyhooks, boosted by Khemist. Size is by taste 40 obviously gives more shots but is more of a eggs in one basket type unit, most people seem to feel 30 is a good balance.

Melee - 12 man Endrinriggers boosted by Khemist. Between shooting and melee with boosted saws with average over 30 wounds past a 4+ save.

Airship - Ironclad. Best carry capacity, save, weapons and rules.

Hero - Khemist. Weapon boost is just too good to pass up. Now an admiral can be good for objective holding as you can give him Doughty champion and a defensive artifact if wanted when your playing a hero or wizard / artifact scoring mission (which is a KO weakness).

---------------------------------------------

Personally when building for a tournament in AoS2 irrespective of the army I feel the need for at least two artifacts / wizards. This is due to TO's loving to insert those missions and nearly every tournament I go to has a round playing one of them. This means the list either has to have a battalion, be Barak-Urbaz or ally in a Incantor for SCE. 

On the subject of battalions I don't feel any of them are that good. The best being Iron Sky Squadron mainly to allow a one drop force. This means the two best styles I perceive are either Barak-Urbaz playing zero battalion. Or Barak-Mhornar Squadron for the first turn run and re roll bubble.

------------------------------------------

Putting it together I came up with the following builds.

Barak-Urbaz

Khemist - General Doughty Champion, Earburster

Khemist - Thermalrider Cloak

Khemist

30/10/10 Arkanauts

12 Endrinriggers

Ironclad - Breath of Morgrim

1980

Barak-Mhornar

Khemsit - General Opportunistic Privateers, Ignax Scales

Khemist - Earburster

30/10/10 Arkanauts

9 Endrinriggers

5 Thunderers

Frigate - The last word

Frigate - Malefic skymines

1990 

Personally I prefer the look of the Barak-Urbaz as can boost 6 weapons with Khemist and has the Ironclad and able to squeeze in the 12 man Endrinriggers squad.  Something I also feel is overlooked is just boosting normal pistols and cutters especially on large arkanaut squads. With both boosted each model averages 1.5 wounds and can really help vs ethereal type units.

[BWG Cannonball]

I'm 1 Start Collecting box away from an Escort Wing right now.  Once I'm able to get the extra funds, I'll let you know how it runs.