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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion

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10 hours ago, Arzalyn said:

As someone who play most 1.5k games too and is planning to get his first big ship, I would like to ask what is your experience with the ironclad at that point range? While I totally understand that it has the superior damage output and survirvability, I'm having a hardtime fitting him in a 1.5k list while still having points for other units/battalions. Is the damage output better than the extra units/artifact at this range?

Okay, like the one undisputed reason imo for an Ironclad, is that you're building towards 2k and want him in that list. Expensive model that takes a poop-ton of time to paint. So ignore the following if that's the case. 

For my money I'm much prefer the Frigate. The tables are relatively bigger than at 2k and we're already a low body army that needs to be surgical in our target priority. So I rather take play with one firgate with 10 thunderers and 6 endrinriggers so I can apply pressure at two places vs all those points into one filled ironclad which can only be at one place at a time. 

A side argument is you need points for battleline. Especially now that there is no more discussion possible if you need 2 or 3 battle-line at 1500pts. It now is three. So you could even play 2 frigates with 10 thunderers each giving you flexibility and fill in two out of three battleline both in Ziflin and Nar. That way you're two thirds done after 920 pts. Add an endrinmaster and 6 endrinriggers, then you're at 1310, filled out all requirements, have two mobile threats and a third in the combination with the riggers and endrinmaster. Or just split one unit of thunderers into 2x5 in one frigate and you are up to three.

There is of course an argument to be made for the Ironclad. It's bigger, harder to remove, does more damage than a frigate, carries more thunderers. But it's a deathstar and I believe that loses more and more value in an objective game at lower points. So you either mess up your opponents big threat the first time you take a risk and then just play the game out while he can't get through the Ironclad. Or you don't do enough damage and you lose in the backlash. 

Below what I used last and I wasn't fully happy with but worked pretty well. It just didn't have the edge. That was no problem as it was for a friendly game against my own stormcast. It used Brokk just because he's cool. But it did have the two threats and vs Stormcast the two arkanauts helped screening. Which was kind of the point. To help learn my opponent to be on the look out for that. So I played my vanguard list so I could get within 6' and really drive the point home. Plus those models are gorgeous.

1411808465_Screenshot2020-09-20at15_02_05.png.7b76ba4a2fd81e2172b9f69a2533fc10.png

So if I wanted to be more competitive I would probably either go:

Full Grundstok excort wing. Drop Brokk, drop the arkanauts, play urbaz. 3 gunhaulers, full frigate, 9 dwarf squad of shooting skywardens, and khemist with vortex. Give two gunhaulers the Drill cannon so you can hang back a bit and fish for those mortals vs small heroes. Send one forward with the vortex turn one. You have sunk before the game started if you roll for the heroes battleplan though 😅. Test this a couple of times and then try:

Two frigates, 2x arkanauts in iron sky, 2x 10 thunderers that  go in the frigates, Endrinmaster with balloon and 2x6 endrinriggers. Screen turn one with your 2x 10 arkanauts. After that they can go for the backfield objectives while the rest fly's high to where you want them. Sometimes together to take out one target, sometimes splitting up to take advantage of your speed.
And you don't really need the battalion. So you could also drop that and take a navigator or something. You also don't need a specific skyport, so i'd just probably go for a homebrew one. 

Hope that helps you think about some new things, but in the end what works for me, might not work for you. It's also an expensive hobby so maybe test first on TableTop Simulator or with some proxy models before you go buy all kinds of models. 

So in that sense i'm with @zilberfrid unless you need to squeeze every competitive drop out of the list, i'd probably go for the ship that excites you the most to paint. And build the list around those models you love. That's the advantage of an amazing book, multiple ways to have fun lists that can compete. 

 

Edited by Kramer
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9 hours ago, Arzalyn said:

As someone who play most 1.5k games too and is planning to get his first big ship, I would like to ask what is your experience with the ironclad at that point range? While I totally understand that it has the superior damage output and survirvability, I'm having a hardtime fitting him in a 1.5k list while still having points for other units/battalions. Is the damage output better than the extra units/artifact at this range?

Well I play 1500 this days with my brother (we are competitive but not cutthroat so YMMV).

Ironclad will actually have less firepower than frigate+10 thunderers (480pts vs 460pts) if firing from beyond 12", though after closing within 12" it`s back on top. Of course you can put more troops inside Ironclad, but so you can move f.ex 2 frigates to one point. This possibility is impactful when thinking about using one of extra moves (Ziflin, Mhornar, and Cunning Fleetmaster Admiral in Custom Port or in Urbaz). This can allow of devastating one flank of the enemy in initial phases of battle. But it`s really putting everything on this move, more so than in 2000 pts battles as this strike team makes more % of your army. Though of course with enemy army being smaller it can be easier to achieve desired results.

I wouls say when going for Ironclad  -especially so in 1500- you decide on basing your strategy around that piece. With frigate + troops you get more flexibility and resilience (holding objectives!) to some degree, but lose more what I would call breakthrough capability. But if you want to go for those extra move strats Ironclad does that significantly better than frigate.

I personally like Ironclad in gimmick builds, though sometimes still powerful in right situation. It can be oppresive to your opponent so it kinda discourages me using it a bit.

My for fun list(probably also most dangerous of my gimmicks):

CUSTOM PORT: D3 Gold, Settle Grudges and There is no trading with some people

3* Arkanaut Company (2 outside battalion, rest inside Iron Sky Command)

2* 3 Riggers (one in each with Drill)

and that`s it for troops😃, one company probably deployed inside Ironclad, poor troops on tiny legs trying to grab objectives while Ironclad+crew has all the fun

Ironclad with Dealbreaker Ram

Admiral - General: Cunning Fleetmaster

Endrinmaster of foot, or rather in ship

Navigator with Illuminator Flarepistol

Khemist with Caustic Anatomiser

It certainly has weaknesses etc. like I wrote I am not 100% into destroying your opponent, I suppose that goes closest to that. Since it`s 3 drops and usually my brother`s lists have more I am realtively sure of going first. Ironclad goes 10"+D6 rerollable run forward pre battle, you than have another 10" (with run if you fancy using up your footnote). This can easily put you much closer than 9" of fly high, which gives not only better charges but also more shooting (Khemist is great at that range). You shoot (flarepistols gives you rerolls, also can use up additional gold you got from your Skyport on Ironclad for reroll to hit& wound), you kill one unit charge second (probably best to charge away from center of enemy lines) maim it and profit🙂. Unless of course all your firepower don`t kill all 6 rockgut throggoths, and only charge away from center makes you survive double turn😜

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17 hours ago, Baron Wastelands said:

Why the aether khemist? He will get left behind very quickly by all those balloons. And don’t you still need a hero in your main body?

 

Thanks for the input! To answer your questions:

1) I just straight-up took the list from a Warhammer live show they did when Aether War came out. As I was learning the faction at the same time, I just sort of went with it because I figured they know better than me. I'm not particularly attached to it (although I do like the model...)

2) I do need a hero in the main body! That was just my forgetting to change the drop down menu when I was making the list for this post. Oops

Again - thanks for the suggestions! I do like the Gunhauler model, so I have no problems adding another one into the list...

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On 9/18/2020 at 1:00 PM, GrimDork said:

So, I mentioned planning a 1K list for meeting engagement. I’m getting into AoS and my plan is to have a few smaller forces.

I have the Aether War set and will be getting a start collecting box soon so my KO list is based around that. Thanks on the heads up on the latest point costs!
 

Barak Zilphin

Spearhead;

3 x Endrinriggers, volley gun & drill launcher
1 x Gunhauler with MW on the charge endrinwork (Can’t remember name)


Main Body;

6 x Endrinriggers, skyhook.
1 x Endrinmaster with dirigible suit and Zilphin artefact

1 x Gunhauler with compartments 

5 x Thunderers 
 

Rearguard;

3 x Endrinriggers, volley gun & drill launcher

Total 970

My thinking is spearhead rush onto objectives with zilphin auto 6 run or chip damage with longer range weapons.

Then the main body can be a mini deathstar flying high and hitching to take on any threats.

Lastly the rearguard to rush onto objectives late game.

One drawback I can see is it doesn’t really making the most of Aether gold as the units are too small, but I think that’s just one of the quirks of meeting engagement.

Any thoughts? 
Also, any else have much experience playing KO in meeting engagement?

Any fun lists you’ve come up with?

One thing to note there is that that list isn't legal: you're only allowed two units of the same warscroll, so one unit of endrinriggers will have to be replaced with skywardens or something else.

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Thanks both @Kramer and @Boar for your insights! You two gave me a lot to think about! The majority of the time I play is with a friend and while we try to use some good lists they are far from the ultra competitive ones. Its good to hear that both of you had good experiences without a Ironclad on those points range. I plan to get one eventually, but I think that for now I will get a Frigate first. I really like the model and I can get it + more thunderers for the same price than a Ironclad  (knowing that its not a bad unit make the deal even better!).
One thing I would like to ask, both of you mention a Frigate with 10 Thunderers (which is something I was planning to use too), how to you equip your thunderers for this situation? Also, do you usually disembark they on a objective or mostly of the time they stay inside the ship?

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9 hours ago, plavski said:

One thing to note there is that that list isn't legal: you're only allowed two units of the same warscroll, so one unit of endrinriggers will have to be replaced with skywardens or something else.

Thanks, that had totally slipped my notice. Easy fix tho, like you say.

I was actually wondering if it was worth assembling some Skywardens from the models I’m getting, just for variety. This has made the decision easier.

Any thoughts on the lists effectiveness?

Edited by GrimDork

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Was just playing around with another meeting engagement list. Basically I was wondering if it would be possible to fit a spell in a bottle in zilphin for hero phase move, drop spell, move again in move phase at 1K. It’s just possible

As zilphin has a forced artefact you have to take a battalion to be able to take the spell in a bottle. I doubt I’ll ever try this as it would be buying a lot if models I don’t have for one gimmick, but here’s the list.

Spearhead

1 x Khemist- zilphin artefact

10x Arkanaut company

Main Body

1 x Khemist - spell in a bottle

1 x Frigate

10 x Arkanaut company

Rearguard

1 x Frigate

Iron Sky attack squadron battalion

warp lightning vortex

Total 980

Could swap the first Khemist for another leader? Endrinmaster or Navigator for +10points

(Whilst looking at this list it occurs to me that the Endrinworks available to Frigates are pretty rubbish )

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6 hours ago, Arzalyn said:

Thanks both @Kramer and @Boar for your insights! You two gave me a lot to think about! The majority of the time I play is with a friend and while we try to use some good lists they are far from the ultra competitive ones. Its good to hear that both of you had good experiences without a Ironclad on those points range. I plan to get one eventually, but I think that for now I will get a Frigate first. I really like the model and I can get it + more thunderers for the same price than a Ironclad  (knowing that its not a bad unit make the deal even better!).
One thing I would like to ask, both of you mention a Frigate with 10 Thunderers (which is something I was planning to use too), how to you equip your thunderers for this situation? Also, do you usually disembark they on a objective or mostly of the time they stay inside the ship?

You’re welcome. 
for me it’s all rifles. I did the math on the drucchi.net combat calculator for both load outs and the difference in damage was quite small. 
so I rather have the flexibility of the range. Easy example is: You have something I want to shoot. With the mixed weapons you only need to set up a screen more than 3” from my target so I can’t use fly high to get into range. With rifles you need to set up that screen more than 9” away. That’s a real big area to cover. And even if you manage that, now you’re stuck with this wide spread unit. 
and there are of course more little examples, like having more impact on the game if you disembark on an objective and now they are stuck there. Shooting over you’re own screen etc. 

but that’s mainly preferred playstyle I guess. But other than to have bodies on an objective or to split up my thunderers stay on their frigate. But I feel I do miss opportunities where it’s better to disembark. 
So I try to remember it’s an option but I often forget. 

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2 hours ago, GrimDork said:

Was just playing around with another meeting engagement list. Basically I was wondering if it would be possible to fit a spell in a bottle in zilphin for hero phase move, drop spell, move again in move phase at 1K. It’s just possible

As zilphin has a forced artefact you have to take a battalion to be able to take the spell in a bottle. I doubt I’ll ever try this as it would be buying a lot if models I don’t have for one gimmick, but here’s the list.

Spearhead

1 x Khemist- zilphin artefact

10x Arkanaut company

Main Body

1 x Khemist - spell in a bottle

1 x Frigate

10 x Arkanaut company

Rearguard

1 x Frigate

Iron Sky attack squadron battalion

warp lightning vortex

Total 980

Could swap the first Khemist for another leader? Endrinmaster or Navigator for +10points

(Whilst looking at this list it occurs to me that the Endrinworks available to Frigates are pretty rubbish )

I think you have put a lot of points in a gimmick that won't be super effective in ME. A battalion at this points level is less effective than more bodies on the field as objectives are critical in ME. Whoever gets to them first is difficult to push off and you have fewer rounds to do it. The endless spell thing also won't be super effective due to the staggered nature of deployments. You can drop the WLV in one place, but their army will be likely spread across the whole field so you've spent a lot of points for a minor effect.

In this format, the key things are movement, surprise and hitting power. I found the Endrinmaster in Dirigible does great work here as he punches well above his weight and is super mobile. Gunhaulers also do well as they can fly high out of combat (they don't degrade with wounds) and instantly threaten something else. They're very slippery. In my last game I had a squad of five rifle thunderers in a gunhauler zipping around the field doing nice harassment work. Arkanauts are solid as you can get them onto objectives pretty quickly for their buffs and they're also vital for screening some of the nastier charging things that can destroy a small ME force.

In my experience, ME is about one or two hammers and a lot of very weak anvils. If you can take those hammers off the field early, they can't do much. So focusing on shooting and having a large threat range to focus down units as they come onto the battlefield edge is very effective. Nothing is finer than shooting their spearhead off the field, then flying high and shooting their main body off the field as it arrives. With a good comp and the right luck, there is a degree of spawn camping you can do which will give you a huge advantage. Being able to sit on one objective and contest another by gunning down their forces and swooping three riggers in to take the point is huge in this format. Don't underestimate the raw power of guns and movement as they just win games here.

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9 hours ago, Arzalyn said:

One thing I would like to ask, both of you mention a Frigate with 10 Thunderers (which is something I was planning to use too), how to you equip your thunderers for this situation? Also, do you usually disembark they on a objective or mostly of the time they stay inside the ship?

Usually rifles due to range they give you, and frigate as less survivable wants to keep some distance. And generally what @Kramerwrote - solid advice.

I personally often use frigate more as hero delivering tool with Admiral and Endrinmaster, often accompanied then by 5 Thunderers which quite often, after taking objective with firepower and hammers will disembark next turn. Due to sympathy for mixed weapon Thunderers team (which I call A-Team🙂) they were quite often used in my battles, lately with my brother using Seraphon I moved to 4 rifles+1 fumigator. And in general if you plan of dropping thunderers to help you secure terrain fumigator is always worth looking at with it`s 3" -1 to hit bubble in melee.

Large (10 or more) mixed thunderers team can however achieve good results, if it`s f.ex. moved closely thanks to 2 consecutive moves in Barak Zilfin it will be in range of all it`s weapons. Than after disembarking can be, due to combination of fumigators, aethergold and quite good number of wounds, not too mention short range firepower be quite a problem for your opponent. Though this usage of them plays best with "in your face" additional move I mentioned in my previous post, and hence it`s best with Ironclad.

One thing about frigate is that I would look into magnetising main cannon, as I sometimes think about using skyhook, but I build it with more powerful skycannon, but skyhook gives you +2 to charge and sometimes that looks like good deal for my "bring me closer I want to hit them with my hammer" ideas.

 

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1 hour ago, Boar said:

One thing about frigate is that I would look into magnetising main cannon, as I sometimes think about using skyhook, but I build it with more powerful skycannon, but skyhook gives you +2 to charge and sometimes that looks like good deal for my "bring me closer I want to hit them with my hammer" ideas.

 

First off, definitely magnetise it whatever ship you build. I also think there is an argument to be made for gunhaulers with drill cannons, and also for cannons. 

1 hour ago, Boar said:

oved to 4 rifles+1 fumigator.

Yeah, good point. If you expect to dismount a fumigator is pretty good. 

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11 minutes ago, Kramer said:

First off, definitely magnetise it whatever ship you build. I also think there is an argument to be made for gunhaulers with drill cannons, and also for cannons. 

At least volley gun on my Ironclad is attached with only drop of super glue - it`s easy to just snap off as it`s not melted together - I am truly master craftsman🙂 And my 2 gunhaulers are one of each so I am good there😅 But going forward (and with Ironclad) I will definetly need to install magnets.

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38 minutes ago, Boar said:

At least volley gun on my Ironclad is attached with only drop of super glue - it`s easy to just snap off as it`s not melted together - I am truly master craftsman🙂 And my 2 gunhaulers are one of each so I am good there😅 But going forward (and with Ironclad) I will definetly need to install magnets.

Haha aint super glue great ;) 

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On 9/21/2020 at 8:48 AM, GrimDork said:

Was just playing around with another meeting engagement list. Basically I was wondering if it would be possible to fit a spell in a bottle in zilphin for hero phase move, drop spell, move again in move phase at 1K. It’s just possible

As zilphin has a forced artefact you have to take a battalion to be able to take the spell in a bottle. I doubt I’ll ever try this as it would be buying a lot if models I don’t have for one gimmick, but here’s the list.

Spearhead

1 x Khemist- zilphin artefact

10x Arkanaut company

Main Body

1 x Khemist - spell in a bottle

1 x Frigate

10 x Arkanaut company

Rearguard

1 x Frigate

Iron Sky attack squadron battalion

warp lightning vortex

Total 980

Could swap the first Khemist for another leader? Endrinmaster or Navigator for +10points

(Whilst looking at this list it occurs to me that the Endrinworks available to Frigates are pretty rubbish )

If im not mistaken, you could skip the battalion and just give one of your khemist the Collector command trait to unlock your second artifact.

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33 minutes ago, Rangeltoft said:

If im not mistaken, you could skip the battalion and just give one of your khemist the Collector command trait to unlock your second artifact.

I guess he wants to play zilfin, so no collector command trait available.

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1 hour ago, Rangeltoft said:

If im not mistaken, you could skip the battalion and just give one of your khemist the Collector command trait to unlock your second artifact.

Thanks, I had completely missed the Collector command trait!

52 minutes ago, Archibald said:

I guess he wants to play zilfin, so no collector command trait available.

No, the forced command trait for Zilphin is only if the general is an Admiral. If I put chemist as general then I can choose the Collector. 
Off to play with some list options, thanks guys (or girls)!

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4 hours ago, Grudgebearer said:

Hey fellow admirals, if anyone is interested we have a dedicated KO discord channel called the Skyport, where we also talk everything KO , feel free to join in ☺️
 

https://discord.gg/kYvYzVv

Great discord, can highly recommend it!

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4 hours ago, The Wah said:

Dark matter detector or Kharadron Endrin?

You decide!
 

Clearly it`s Kharadron Endrin using dark matter for increased performance!

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Boar said:

Clearly it`s Kharadron Endrin using dark matter for increased performance!

I think that we found how Mhornar disappeared from our Skies...

Edited by Beliman
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What would people like to see as the next KO ship?

I kind of a like a top down size hierarchy, (1 iron clad, 2 frigates, 3 gunhaulers) so would like another small ship. 

Something more close quarters focused, like a whale boat. A few guys on top with a skypikes, obligatory carbine + bombs and for special rules, maybe a rerolls of 1 in melee against fly and can retreat and charge. Or disengage and charge so it can still be stuck by fliers 

Not sure if Id want a transport capacity in it. On one hand being able to have an admiral on board with repel boarders would synergize, but I feel like itd turn into a character taxi which Im not a big fan of.

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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, Rahxephon said:

What would people like to see as the next KO ship?

Really nice question. I think that another small ship (gunhauler or even frigatte size) could work. Maybe something without guns, only used to transport troops and give some charge bonus (maybe for balloon boyz too). We could change a bit our playstyle with that.

Edited by Beliman

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I think personally we should go and get more infantry rather than skyships, as the only rout to go would be an armored transport or something even more unique.

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