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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion

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Well we're officially low tier now let alone mid. We might end up being the worst army in the game. 

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27 minutes ago, Barkanaut said:

Well we're officially low tier now let alone mid. We might end up being the worst army in the game. 

Thats not true and you know that.

Kharadrons are still better than every non-battletome army. 
Also, Endless Spells aside (as I haven't played against them yet, and the fact that they are only an expansion), we are basically where we were last edition. The shooting "nerf" changed nothing. Shooting the enemies directly in front of my units was what I were going to do anyway. 

Summoning isn't that bad as we still can target the enemy heroes. No heroes, no summoning. 

On the other side, cheaper sky vessels is is a plus for me as they were the reason I even started playing Kharadrons. 

Edited by Gecktron
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42 minutes ago, Gecktron said:

Kharadrons are still better than every non-battletome army. 

Well they are also better than Tomb Kings and Bretonia ^^

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1 hour ago, Gecktron said:

Thats not true and you know that.

Kharadrons are still better than every non-battletome army. 
Also, Endless Spells aside (as I haven't played against them yet, and the fact that they are only an expansion), we are basically where we were last edition. The shooting "nerf" changed nothing. Shooting the enemies directly in front of my units was what I were going to do anyway. 

Summoning isn't that bad as we still can target the enemy heroes. No heroes, no summoning. 

On the other side, cheaper sky vessels is is a plus for me as they were the reason I even started playing Kharadrons. 

Darkling Coven has 3 Battleline choices of Elite troop choices (Executioners alone are deadly and problematic enough) with a higher than average statline, special rules and access to Magic. The can run and charge to close distances and if they spike on charge distances, suddenly shooting and range advantages fall short.

I've seen GHB 2018. No new allegiance abilities for KO as a faction. I think this isn't a good start to AoS 2.0 for the Kharadron Overlords.

 

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Welp. I think today seals it. Retiring the ko now. Might break em out if they ever figure out what they actually want the army to do... cos atm it feels like they think the whole books a mistake and cant think of any way to fix it.

 

Was a pleasure boys. But im out. Chiao.

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Just now, amysrevenge said:

Hot tip: don't buy in to Tzeentch right now.  They're even MORE salty, if you can imagine it.

At least they had fun at the top haha! 

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37 minutes ago, Badlander86 said:

Darkling Coven has 3 Battleline choices of Elite troop choices (Executioners alone are deadly and problematic enough) with a higher than average statline, special rules and access to Magic. The can run and charge to close distances and if they spike on charge distances, suddenly shooting and range advantages fall short.

I've seen GHB 2018. No new allegiance abilities for KO as a faction. I think this isn't a good start to AoS 2.0 for the Kharadron Overlords.

 

Please, calm down. The all-infantry Darkling Covens are really no problem for the Kharadrons. Their wizards became more expensiv in the new Handbook and their are really squishy. (Im sure you could gun her down with volley guns alone). 

I have played against summoning Khorne daemons and anti-shooting Idoneth Deepkin and I have won 9 out of 10 AoS 2 test games so far. 

Sure, they arent a tournament winning army like old Tzeentch but they are way better than some people here think. 

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Don't mistake my tone for utter abandonment. I will still continue to collect and paint Kharadron Overlords and I do know how things like this work. What sucks today will be broken tomorrow and vice versa. I will however need to be a lot more selective with my buying which again, sucks because most of the KO line is cool. 

As I said in the previous thread, this feels like the KO is going to have to be played a finesse army by player with a higher skill than myself both in terms of list building (I have always hated the process of min-maxing in ANY game). Even subtle decisions like going first or second , deepstriking or regular deployments need to be measured and reconsidered before committing, knowing how merciless the dice gods can be. In other words, KO is going to be playing AoS on Very Hard Mode. Some people welcome the challenge, some people don't. I guess it depends on what you started the collection for.

My concern is for the casuals like myself whom buy collections of models because we think they look cool and that the faction is mainly about "A" which lets say is our ships, but is actually about "B" which is actually  specific infantry shooting. I am not opposed to more Dakka but I don't appreciate the bait and switch. Its like imagine buying into Imperial Knights the Codex thinking the army is all about the big robot...but is actually about the Skiitari, and as much other Imperial ****** you can min-max into the list.

I may grope about the lack of new stuff but it may be mainly because we are seeing cool new stuff for other factions everyday whilst Kharadron Overlords seem to be on the back burner for the time being. On the bright side, I might be able to get Arkanauts with skyhooks on Ebay if the salt levels are so high that power players decide to liquidate their collections.

Edited by Badlander86

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I really think Ko are going to get a new book in the next year or two. It is the only reason I can think of for not adding a new battleline unit.

The Ko minis are amazing and sold very well, but the play experience has been lacking. I believe they said at a previous preview event that they have new models planned for Ko. A new book with a new battleline unit a new special unit and a new hero or two would go a long way to giving the army some much needed variety. 

I would like to see Ko create some aether powered endless spell equivalents and get some better command point synergies. 

I also think the thunderers and Admiral need a better save to reflect the design of the minis. They need to tweak the gunhauler and frigate warscrolls to give them a bit more punch and allow gunhaulers to be fielded in units. 

 

 

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Yeah, the Thunderers save never made sense. They are clearly wearing way more armor than the Arkanauts but have the same save.

Here's  a gameplay question: in general, give the choice with the new roll off for double turn rules...would you choose to go first or 2nd? I think 2nd still suits the gameplay of hoping your enemy moves up enough inches for more firepower to be put into them but not sure sure how Malign sorceries affects that situatuion. They are unlikely to cast a Malign Sorcery on the first turn. The placements for most of the spells are too close. So going 2nd still seems like the wiser choice.

 

 

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Question. Is there no longer a way to disembark when you drop in with the Zilfin endrins anymore? Guessing not since you have to pile out at the start of the phase...

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4 minutes ago, WatcherintheWater said:

Question. Is there no longer a way to disembark when you drop in with the Zilfin endrins anymore? Guessing not since you have to pile out at the start of the phase...

 

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/age_of_sigmar_kharadron_overlords_errata_en.pdf

 

Based on the FAQ it does say at the Start of your Hero Phase but unless there was an Errata for the Aetherspheric Endrins rule, I am inclined to believe that the dropping in and disembarking is done simulataneously (if you so choose to disembark in the Hero phase you choose to deploy it). I assume like special abilities that allow to Run/Shoot or Run/Charge, this ability supersedes the initial restriction.

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I never glued the special weapon to my endrinriggers/skywardens. Drill canon a safe bet to glue now with grapnel nerf? Or one of each in a 6 man unit

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21 minutes ago, nine7six said:

I never glued the special weapon to my endrinriggers/skywardens. Drill canon a safe bet to glue now with grapnel nerf? Or one of each in a 6 man unit

Ok, so is the requirement to be 3 inches away from the enemy unit really a "nerf" or just a formality? If you were already locked in combat with an enemy unit, (which is 3 inches anyway), its not like you could shoot out of combat to disengage or pull out of combat. Sounds like they don't want yo-yoing  Skywardens and Endrinriggers which are pretty mobile as is.

 

On T2 if you are on Barak  Zilfin, you get your free move up of 8 inches in your Ironclad, disembark forward of the Ironclad within 3 inches and you've already got an 11 inch movement shenanigan of which you can still move the 12 inches  and get in shooting range with the Rivet Guns, depending on the table. Seems like value in the movement phase at very least. Whether you run 2 or 3 Grapples, if the intention is to close the distance for charges, I think the rules change is ok. Its just unlikely your Riggers/Wardens will survive the combat after charging if they don't kill everything.

I am tempted to get another 2 boxes of Endrinriggers and run them as a 12 man squad with 3 grapples. At 480 points its, a pretty big investment but in 2000 points, it actually fits into a big Iron Sky Command build:

480 from the Riggers, 360 from the Battleline tax, 420 in the Ironclad+150 points to the Battalion cost, 160 for the Khemist which now more than ever seems to be an Auto-Include, 130 for and Endrinmaster and 80 for a Navigator with the Aetheric Loupe for 2 or 3 unbinds if you give him the Command trait. Throw in a 220 Frigate to complete the 2 ship drop list and at least none of your Arkanauts will be foot slogging. Rounds out to 2000 points with 1 battalion and starting off with 2 Command Points. I am not sure about how to equip the ships though. Aetherspheric Endrins does not suit the Ironclad. It attracts way too much attention and would be better with the Last Word. But it seems wasted on the Frigate unless the intention is to capture a far off objective.

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2 hours ago, Chikout said:

I really think Ko are going to get a new book in the next year or two. It is the only reason I can think of for not adding a new battleline unit.

The Ko minis are amazing and sold very well, but the play experience has been lacking. I believe they said at a previous preview event that they have new models planned for Ko. A new book with a new battleline unit a new special unit and a new hero or two would go a long way to giving the army some much needed variety. 

I would like to see Ko create some aether powered endless spell equivalents and get some better command point synergies. 

I also think the thunderers and Admiral need a better save to reflect the design of the minis. They need to tweak the gunhauler and frigate warscrolls to give them a bit more punch and allow gunhaulers to be fielded in units. 

 

 

Also the inevitable ship unit because come on we know its going to happen lol. 

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8 hours ago, Funstock Funhauler said:

The grapnel nerf is nothing compared to what they just did to zilfin. No more move, disembark, move with "theres always a breeze"

Grapnel nerf is … more of a formality. You wouldn't be able to shoot out of combat anyways. It's sad to see that Zilfin  tactic going out of the window though.

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3 hours ago, Chikout said:

I really think Ko are going to get a new book in the next year or two. It is the only reason I can think of for not adding a new battleline unit.

The Ko minis are amazing and sold very well, but the play experience has been lacking. I believe they said at a previous preview event that they have new models planned for Ko. A new book with a new battleline unit a new special unit and a new hero or two would go a long way to giving the army some much needed variety. 

I would like to see Ko create some aether powered endless spell equivalents and get some better command point synergies. 

I also think the thunderers and Admiral need a better save to reflect the design of the minis. They need to tweak the gunhauler and frigate warscrolls to give them a bit more punch and allow gunhaulers to be fielded in units. 

 

 

Warhammer weekly made a good point that the rules have change so much for KO that a lot of the stuff in the Battletome don't function as written anymore. So GW got give KO a new battletome sooner rather then later or your forcing new KO  players to print out FAQ.

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7 minutes ago, novakai said:

Warhammer weekly made a good point that the rules have change so much for KO that a lot of the stuff in the Battletome don't function as written anymore. So GW got give KO a new battletome sooner rather then later or your forcing new KO  players to print out FAQ.

Which episode? Also great point. I'm feeling KO will get something too next year. After all it will be the big 2 year anniversary since our balloon boys came out.  I hope my faith in all this hear say and speculation is right and GW is gearing all of this. 

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1 minute ago, Barkanaut said:

Which episode? Also great point. I'm feeling KO will get something too next year. After all it will be the big 2 year anniversary since our balloon boys came out.  I hope my faith in all this hear say and speculation is right and GW is gearing all of this. 

How old is AoS and Kharadron Overlords comparatively?

My guess would be all the factions would get new stuff based on the order of orignal releases. So Stormcast has got their stuff representing Order, Nighthaunts are the newness for Death, Destruction is long overdue for a new subfaction or expansions to current armies, and Chaos is probably getting Darkoath stuff as a faction soon. To say nothing of factions like Sylvaneth and Ironjaws which were one of the original factions at the start of the game.

So, its probably going to be a slow year if you are only invested in KO as I plan to be.  Hopefully it will pay off.

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Seems like the Grapnel took a stiff hit from the nerf bat. That plus another price increase to the Khemist. What am I missing about KO that makes them overpowered? I’ve been playing them since release and never felt anything was OP, super fun and beautiful aesthetic  yes. Needing of more nerfing? I’m hoping the boat reduction makes these changes more sensible then on first glance.

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1 minute ago, Barkanaut said:

Which episode? Also great point. I'm feeling KO will get something too next year. After all it will be the big 2 year anniversary since our balloon boys came out.  I hope my faith in all this hear say and speculation is right and GW is gearing all of this. 

the one that came out today, Tom also felt the Doom and gloom of the FAQ changes for KO and Vince made the point that he felt like KO has to get a rerelease in the near future because of all the FAQ change makes their battle tome outdated for newer players

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25 minutes ago, Qaz said:

Grapnel nerf is … more of a formality. You wouldn't be able to shoot out of combat anyways. It's sad to see that Zilfin  tactic going out of the window though.

I never played it that way anyway with my Zilfin army, I always used the atmospheric endrins and then disembarked. Since atmospheric endrins still works at the beginning of the hero phase the disembark change has no effect on how I play the army. Clown car from the sky for the win.

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6 minutes ago, Sactownbri said:

Seems like the Grapnel took a stiff hit from the nerf bat. That plus another price increase to the Khemist. What am I missing about KO that makes them overpowered? I’ve been playing them since release and never felt anything was OP, super fun and beautiful aesthetic  yes. Needing of more nerfing? I’m hoping the boat reduction makes these changes more sensible then on first glance.

Short answer? To make magic more appealing.

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