AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion

[Archibald]

11 hours ago, zilberfrid said:

How does it move 24? Is it an Ironjaws ability? Its move is only 12" undamaged (and drops quite steadily if you damage it). I may get the rules wrong (I don't really play).

Ironjaws have a command ability called "might destroyer" which lets a unit move (if more then 12 away from enemy), charge (if 3-12 away from enemy) or fight (if less then 3 away from enemy).
 

 

11 hours ago, Kramer said:

What’s the argument there? 
they all get barak thryng right? 
Or is the argument that without the KO keyword you can’t be KO allegiance and as such can’t choose the sub faction?

I think that he means that they can not get into the ships because they don't have the "marines" keyword and are also not buffed by abilities that target KO units.

11 hours ago, C.A.O.S said:

The first way is to underdrop the jawz, start first, eliminate as much as you can, prioritize war chanter and gore gruntas, the double halves move to maw with your Navigator, and take space with your company. Otherwise if ironjawz underdrop you, play conservative in one corner, with less model as screen you can to minimize the damage that the maw can inflict and then hope in double turn to make damage 

Thanks a lot! Thats sounds like a good strategy. When the corona madness is over, i will definitly try it out.

[Kramer]

2 hours ago, Archibald said:

hink that he means that they can not get into the ships because they don't have the "marines" keyword and are also not buffed by abilities that target KO units

That’s a world of difference. That would just be complaining ’I don’t like the rules of the sub faction’. Not it doesn’t work as intended. 

[Rangeltoft]

4 hours ago, Kramer said:

That’s a world of difference. That would just be complaining ’I don’t like the rules of the sub faction’. Not it doesn’t work as intended. 

The way its written makes Barak Thryng weird. While they do get Barak Thryng keyword, they do not get the KO keyword, meaning that unlike the similar rule for CoS (tempest eye/living city/SCE) they technical count as allies, since your army alligiance is KO, not Barak Thryng. That in turn makes the subfaction not working as intended, because every KO army can have duradin allies.

 

on the other hand, i have played some with Barak Thryng and the rules are ok, altho without Soulscream Bridge its hard to make a meeleblock work.

[Beliman]

It's a bit weird, I don't know why they didn't give both keywords (Kharadron Overlords and Barak-Thryng) with that Amendment.
Being part of Kharadrons only allows them to have Aether-gold, and Barak-Thryng interpretation of the Code already worked on them. They still don't have the skyfarer and the marine keyword (so 90% of our Command Abilitites or buffs don't work on them).

I dont' see anything really powerful for having the Kharadron Overlords keyword on them...🙄  wow, that hurts to write.

[Kramer]

1 hour ago, Beliman said:

I dont' see anything really powerful for having the Kharadron Overlords keyword on them...🙄  wow, that hurts to write.

You might need to clean those goggles then  
 

1 hour ago, Beliman said:

Being part of Kharadrons only allows them to have Aether-gold, and Barak-Thryng interpretation of the Code already worked on them. They still don't have the skyfarer and the marine keyword (so 90% of our Command Abilitites or buffs don't work on them).

Aether-gold on some duardin units would just be crazy. Re-rolls on already powerful irondrakes, re-roll saves on heartgaurd bezerkers. Can you imagine how tanky that would be. And there's probably a lot more interactions in there. 
But you are right that they could have made things more clear and would just need a little sentence saying units that are included in this way don't get aether gold. If that was the intent.

5 hours ago, Rangeltoft said:

The way its written makes Barak Thryng weird. While they do get Barak Thryng keyword, they do not get the KO keyword, meaning that unlike the similar rule for CoS (tempest eye/living city/SCE) they technical count as allies, since your army alligiance is KO, not Barak Thryng. That in turn makes the subfaction not working as intended, because every KO army can have duradin allies.

Thanks for the expIanation. I do think that's how it's meant to work though. They are allies with a little Thryng bonus. I agree that it woulnd't be a big deal if they also got the KO keyword. But that would have 'unintended' consequences as well. That would mean I could take 1 in 4 as KO. Ally in another 1 in 4 as allies. Could use them for battleline, as a general, they could get the artefacts and command trait. 

So imo Barak Thryng work as intended. But maybe not as cool it could have been rules wise. This fits the fluff better. Thryng is not suddenly a mixed city/skyport. It just maintains better relations with the different duardin factions. But yeah, I see why it could be unclear. 

Edited May 24, 2020 by Kramer

[Beliman]

2 minutes ago, Kramer said:

Thanks for the expIanation. I do think that's how it's meant to work though. They are allies with a little Thryng bonus. I agree that it woulnd't be a big deal if they also got the KO keyword. But that would have 'unintended' consequences as well. That would mean I could take 1 in 4 as KO. Ally in another 1 in 4 as allies. Could use them for battleline, as a general, they could get the artefacts and command trait. 

So imo Barak Thryng work as intended. But maybe not as cool it could have been rules wise. This fits the fluff better. Thryng is not suddenly a mixed city/skyport. It just maintains better relations with the different duardin factions. But yeah, I see why it could be unclear.

Are we 100% sure about that?

Core rules: An army can have allegiance to a faction instead of a Grand Alliance if all the units in the army have the keyword for that faction, including any units that you assign a keyword to during set-up.

The barak-Thryng amendment: 1 in 4 units in your army can be a DUARDIN unit that does not have the KHARADRON OVERLORDS keyword. Those units gain the BARAK-THRYNG keyword. They cannot be the army general and do not count towards the number of Battleline units in the army.

Can the bold part just overwritter the Core rules?  Plis...say YES!!!

[Kramer]

3 minutes ago, Beliman said:

Are we 100% sure about that?

Core rules: An army can have allegiance to a faction instead of a Grand Alliance if all the units in the army have the keyword for that faction, including any units that you assign a keyword to during set-up.

The barak-Thryng amendment: 1 in 4 units in your army can be a DUARDIN unit that does not have the KHARADRON OVERLORDS keyword. Those units gain the BARAK-THRYNG keyword. They cannot be the army general and do not count towards the number of Battleline units in the army.

Can the bold part just overwritter the Core rules?  Plis...say YES!!!

No I’m with @Rangeltoft on this one. I think it’s weirdly written and it leaves some room for arguing either side. 
but if a rule breaks with the core rules it should explicitly do so. Or at least be faq’ed. 
So I’d say it works as intended. Those duardin are allies but they get the thryng keyword. 
 

but honestly.... spam the faq team. That’s the only real answer you might get 😅

[5kaven5lave]

Re: turn 1 Mawcrusha: deploy in a corner with a line of 10 ArCo around your army that’s more than 3” away from the nearest unit. They charge and hit the ArCo and that’s all they can do. Then you go full salvo back and destroy it. 

[Beliman]

That's hard to swallow  @Kramer
Barak-thryng non-KO duardins gain the Grudges (rerolls of 1 to 3 enemy units) and the footnote for 400 points of duardin allies (and if we want to bring a mage, a lot less and extra drops). Not sure if it's worth btw...

[Kramer]

1 minute ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Re: turn 1 Mawcrusha: deploy in a corner with a line of 10 ArCo around your army that’s more than 3” away from the nearest unit. They charge and hit the ArCo and that’s all they can do. Then you go full salvo back and destroy it. 

Solid advise. If I might add:

Make sure you have the models for two screens. Leaving a 5,1 gap. That way you have double turn protection against a lone mawcrusher. 

but more importantly if he gets in some goregruntas at the same time. They take out screen, then the mawcrusher activates and moves 3 forward, with 2” range attacks. That means your second screen is still protecting the important bits. 

also it’s all about not allowing him space for that big *ss base for a turn. So make sure you do play with enough terrain. 
 

[Malakithe]

3 hours ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Re: turn 1 Mawcrusha: deploy in a corner with a line of 10 ArCo around your army that’s more than 3” away from the nearest unit. They charge and hit the ArCo and that’s all they can do. Then you go full salvo back and destroy it. 

 

2 hours ago, Kramer said:

Solid advise. If I might add:

Make sure you have the models for two screens. Leaving a 5,1 gap. That way you have double turn protection against a lone mawcrusher. 

but more importantly if he gets in some goregruntas at the same time. They take out screen, then the mawcrusher activates and moves 3 forward, with 2” range attacks. That means your second screen is still protecting the important bits. 

also it’s all about not allowing him space for that big *ss base for a turn. So make sure you do play with enough terrain. 
 

Your both assuming the Krusha doesnt wipe the first screen, get the free move, charge into the next screen, wipe it, then get another free move and charge lol

[Kramer]

1 minute ago, Malakithe said:

 

Your both assuming the Krusha doesnt wipe the first screen, get the free move, charge into the next screen, wipe it, then get another free move and charge lol

How does he get the second move?
Haven't played Orruks in a long time.

Edited May 24, 2020 by Kramer

[Malakithe]

1 minute ago, Kramer said:

How does he get the second move?
Haven't played Orruks in a long time.

Its a combination of abilities. Smashing N Bashing, Mighty Destroyers, Mad as Hell. Castling against IJ is just a bad idea in general

[zilberfrid]

Allying in Gotrek may make sense. If they come to you, he could see action.

[5kaven5lave]

1 hour ago, Malakithe said:

Its a combination of abilities. Smashing N Bashing, Mighty Destroyers, Mad as Hell. Castling against IJ is just a bad idea in general

So, have I got it wrong with this: if it’s a 12” back from the centre deployment, that’s 24” it can be to you at closest if your screen is on your own front line. Hero phase move plus normal move gets them close to if not just outside of 3” of your screen, then they charge, do in your screen. Then they’re outside of 3” of the rest of your army and can’t do anything else. Would appreciate if you could let me know what I’m missing. Cheers. 

[GrimDork]

Also, if MK's destructive bulk mw ability finishes off a screening unit, it can charge again.

[Kramer]

11 minutes ago, GrimDork said:

Also, if MK's destructive bulk mw ability finishes off a screening unit, it can charge again.

True, but that requires quite some luck. 
destructve bulk is 8 or 9 dice. And the bellow d6 shots. So it’s definitely possible. But it’s quite a spike unsupported. Gordrak is more likely with its flat 6 shots 

Edited May 24, 2020 by Kramer

[GrimDork]

26 minutes ago, Kramer said:

True, but that requires quite some luck. 
destructve bulk is 8 or 9 dice. And the bellow d6 shots. So it’s definitely possible. But it’s quite a spike unsupported. Gordrak is more likely with its flat 6 shots 

Yes, agreed. Situational, I suppose, if a screening is minimum sized supported by a couple of gore grunta unit charges could theoretically take it down to nearly dead, allowing a MK to charge, kill and charge again. Just something to be wary of.

[Kramer]

51 minutes ago, GrimDork said:

Yes, agreed. Situational, I suppose, if a screening is minimum sized supported by a couple of gore grunta unit charges could theoretically take it down to nearly dead, allowing a MK to charge, kill and charge again. Just something to be wary of.

Oh with support absolutely. But I have to read up on what @Malakithe said. Because I don’t know the mad as hell rule. So first it’s back to the batcave  

[GrimDork]

2 minutes ago, Kramer said:

Oh with support absolutely. But I have to read up on what @Malakithe said. Because I don’t know the mad as hell rule. So first it’s back to the batcave  

Not 100% on mad as hell myself. Think it gives extra movement when damage is taken if there are no enemies within a certain distance. So shooting and spells Etc only make them quicker,

[Kramer]

16 minutes ago, GrimDork said:

Not 100% on mad as hell myself. Think it gives extra movement when damage is taken if there are no enemies within a certain distance. So shooting and spells Etc only make them quicker,

Oh you’re right! That’s the one. 

okay, that’s good. Not really the an issue with how I protect against the charge question. 

does the move have to be towards the shooter? 

[GrimDork]

Not to my knowledge.

[zilberfrid]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/05/24/sunday-preview-new40k-and-pre-orders-are-back/

The Kharadron are getting a children's book.

[Rahxephon]

I havent versed IJ, but just thought that if you were gonna screen you need a bit more distance from what you're screening than typical and to make your screen tight rather than loose.

Usually Id space out a screen to cover more area so things cant get around it. But with mawcrushas if you're too spaced out they may kill everything within the 3" bubble after the charge and then keep going. But if your company is tight thats unlikely.

The mad as hell ability gives a free D6 move when units get wounded over 9", and smashin and bashin gives you some additional strikes first in bigger melees but I wouldnt of thought that'd help that much for breaking through the screen. The company is definitely a throw away but you should be able to prevent combo charges with it placed well. Then the mawcrusha is sitting in the open to shoot your turn.

It is something that I could imagine would easily wreck you in a double turn. Id probably prefer going second to prevent that.

[Rahxephon]

3 hours ago, zilberfrid said:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/05/24/sunday-preview-new40k-and-pre-orders-are-back/

The Kharadron are getting a children's book.

Hadnt realised before they were starting to do that style. Doubt I'd get it now, but if they had that sorta stuff when I first started a couple decades back it would've been cool. So seems like a good direction overall i think.