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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion

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2 hours ago, Sttufe said:

Oh man, what if you had an entire army right, 2k points and the whole thing, but you made it all flying units. If you give balloons to heroes with the functionality of the thermal rider cloak, and then you could have a really cool flying only army, with the Aether War flying rules set, and then potentially if you were really into it, go so far as to convert some Thunderers with balloons. Just imagining, but it would be super cool to have an entire 2k list that's flying around. Although, there is the point of no one being able to fit inside ships cuz none of them have the marine keyword if they can fly.

Edit: I totally realized that if it were flying only army using the Aether War no land rules then technically it wouldn't matter about the marine thing since those that can fit inside your ship would be inside the ship the whole time as they cannot fly.

I really just want the Khemist to be able to keep up with the Wardens/Riggers without having to worry about embarking/disembarking to give out his buffs.

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2 hours ago, ArmyOfGrodd said:

I really just want the Khemist to be able to keep up with the Wardens/Riggers without having to worry about embarking/disembarking to give out his buffs.

Someone mentioned a few pages back about the Dais Arcanum Stormcast ES - 30 points for 12” move and +1 to save (and an unbind?). Would only get you one movement phase or two before your enemy clicked their fingers and dispelled it though I guess.

Speaking of magicy stuff, been thinking about a Nar anti-magic list. Any thoughts on this? 4 unbind at +1 and 2 auto-unbinds per game. Gunhaulers to winkle our their mages and one to carry the Navigator?

Allegiance: Kharadron Overlords
- Sky Port: Barak Nar
Aetheric Navigator (100)
- Artefact: Voidstone Orb  
Aether-Khemist (90)
- General
- Trait: Champion of Progress  
- Artefact: Aethercharged Rune  
Knight-Incantor (140)
10 x Grundstok Thunderers (240)
15 x Grundstok Thunderers (360)
10 x Arkanaut Company (90)
10 x Arkanaut Company (90)
1 x Grundstok Gunhauler (150)
- Main Gun: Drill Cannon
- Great Endrinworks: Coalbeard's Collapsible Compartments
1 x Grundstok Gunhauler (150)
- Main Gun: Drill Cannon
6 x Endrinriggers (200)
Arkanaut Frigate (250)
- Great Endrinworks: Magnificent Omniscope
Grundstok Escort Wing (140)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 106
 

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17 hours ago, Ser_namron said:

Aetherwings are 50, they could honestly be usefull against charges.

Just remember the 2d6 move at the start of the enemy charge phase is linked to being in range of raptors. 
Just to be sure :) 

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1 hour ago, Kramer said:

Just remember the 2d6 move at the start of the enemy charge phase is linked to being in range of raptors. 
Just to be sure :) 

Yeah, but making them into a few drillbills would be awesome. Just having a few birds flying about interfering could also work, of course.

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3 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

Yeah, but making them into a few drillbills would be awesome. 

Then also take a look at the Kairic Acolytes one and the one you get with Vanguard raptors. Both are modeled to be perched on a hand/shoulder/something. 

Edited by Kramer

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5 hours ago, Scruf said:

So with no FAQ answer on it, is the Zilfin “There’s always a breeze if you look for it” Hero phase Fly High legal?

It gives you a hero phase normal move on 1 Unit and fly high is “instead of making a normal move”.

I can't find any reasons why not. 

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4 hours ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Someone mentioned a few pages back about the Dais Arcanum Stormcast ES - 30 points for 12” move and +1 to save (and an unbind?). Would only get you one movement phase or two before your enemy clicked their fingers and dispelled it though I guess.

Speaking of magicy stuff, been thinking about a Nar anti-magic list. Any thoughts on this? 4 unbind at +1 and 2 auto-unbinds per game. Gunhaulers to winkle our their mages and one to carry the Navigator?

Allegiance: Kharadron Overlords
- Sky Port: Barak Nar
Aetheric Navigator (100)
- Artefact: Voidstone Orb  
Aether-Khemist (90)
- General
- Trait: Champion of Progress  
- Artefact: Aethercharged Rune  
Knight-Incantor (140)
10 x Grundstok Thunderers (240)
15 x Grundstok Thunderers (360)
10 x Arkanaut Company (90)
10 x Arkanaut Company (90)
1 x Grundstok Gunhauler (150)
- Main Gun: Drill Cannon
- Great Endrinworks: Coalbeard's Collapsible Compartments
1 x Grundstok Gunhauler (150)
- Main Gun: Drill Cannon
6 x Endrinriggers (200)
Arkanaut Frigate (250)
- Great Endrinworks: Magnificent Omniscope
Grundstok Escort Wing (140)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 106
 

Yeah that was me who mentioned it haha. I thought against it incase it got dispelled and left the Khemist stranded.

Edited by ArmyOfGrodd
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4 hours ago, cofaxest said:

I can't find any reasons why not. 

Should work..Fly high is indeed "instead of a normal move"..so if you are allowed to make a "normal move" out of phase then Flying High should work for that phase as well.

 There of course would be issue with taking balloon units along for the ride since it states "one unit"

 

 

 

Edited by Thostos
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32 minutes ago, Thostos said:

There of course would be issue with taking balloon units along for the ride since it states "one unit"

 

 

 

Hmm, that’s a valid concern because of the wording:

 

“...this unit will hitch a lift instead of making a normal move (as long as this unit has not made a normal move in the same phase)...”

I’d say my argument for is that it hasn’t made a normal move and it’s not clear that you have to have a normal move available to the unit.

 

The argument against is “instead of making a normal move” infers that having a normal move available is a prerequisite to Hitchers. 
 

GW, when’s the next FAQ? 

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59 minutes ago, Thostos said:

Should work..Fly high is indeed "instead of a normal move"..so if you are allowed to make a "normal move" out of phase then Flying High should work for that phase as well.

 There of course would be issue with taking balloon units along for the ride since it states "one unit"

 

 

 

I would think it would work as well, but on further reading the footnote does emphasize that it has to be a "normal" move - and Fly High has already been worded as anything but a normal move.  We should find out soon enough.

For the hitching rule, and if Fly High is good to go in the Zilfin Footnote, although it states 1 friendly unit can make a normal move this should not have any bearing on Hitchers which IMHO is an exception to the rule.

 
 

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11 hours ago, Scruf said:

So with no FAQ answer on it, is the Zilfin “There’s always a breeze if you look for it” Hero phase Fly High legal?

It gives you a hero phase normal move on 1 Unit and fly high is “instead of making a normal move”.

Its answered in the Movement Phase portiom of core rules FAQ.

Tl;dr no you cannot use fly high.

 

MOVEMENT PHASE
Q: Several abilities allow a unit to make a move ‘as though it were the movement phase’. Does this allow them to make use of abilities or special rules that normally only apply in the movement phase? For example, in the hero phase a unit of Kurnoth Hunters in a Free Spirits Battalion can move as though it were the movement phase. Would this allow them to make use of the Forest Spirits battle trait, where a unit can be transported to the battlefield in the movement phase?
A: No, it does not. All it means is that the move is made as though it were the movement phase, so the distance the unit moves will be based on its Move characteristic, it can’t move within 3" of an enemy model, it can run and retreat (but if it does so it will have counted as having run or retreated for the rest of the turn), and so on.

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14 minutes ago, Tittliewinks22 said:

Its answered in the Movement Phase portiom of core rules FAQ.

Tl;dr no you cannot use fly high.

 

MOVEMENT PHASE
Q: Several abilities allow a unit to make a move ‘as though it were the movement phase’. Does this allow them to make use of abilities or special rules that normally only apply in the movement phase? For example, in the hero phase a unit of Kurnoth Hunters in a Free Spirits Battalion can move as though it were the movement phase. Would this allow them to make use of the Forest Spirits battle trait, where a unit can be transported to the battlefield in the movement phase?
A: No, it does not. All it means is that the move is made as though it were the movement phase, so the distance the unit moves will be based on its Move characteristic, it can’t move within 3" of an enemy model, it can run and retreat (but if it does so it will have counted as having run or retreated for the rest of the turn), and so on.

This is incorrect, none of the Fly High or Hitcher rules reference only being able to move in the movement phase while Forest Spirits does.

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Where the hell is GW on some basic questions that really need clarification to put our community at ease.

1)  Battalions drops occurring "at the same time" in regards to ships being placed first followed by units being placed into garrison on ship for "one drop" or multiple.  

             Possible Answers:

                                -- Kharadron battalions can be one drop even if you garrison units from the battalion into ships from the same battalion.  Battalions are setup "at the same time" but the player may choose the order of what models are setup first.  Eg. Place a frigate first followed by a unit from the shared battalion.

                               -- The battalion setup must be split if you wish to place units into garrison on ships.  As the ship is not considered to be deployed yet during an "at the same time" battalion setup. 

 

2) Interactions with abilities attempting to utilize Fly High.  

            - Can Zilfin Fly High in hero phase with their port ability?   Can Hitchers tag along for this Fly High?    Simple answers...    Yes/No and Yes/No

            - Can the Iron Sky Attack Squadron's Ark Company disembark after a Fly High?    Simple answer...  Yes/No

 

I don't want to heat everyone up on these again... but how do we get GW to answer these.

Edited by Fert

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1 hour ago, Fert said:

Where the hell is GW on some basic questions that really need clarification to put our community at ease.

1)  Battalions drops occurring "at the same time" in regards to ships being placed first followed by units being placed into garrison on ship for "one drop" or multiple.  

             Possible Answers:

                                -- Kharadron battalions can be one drop even if you garrison units from the battalion into ships from the same battalion.  Battalions are setup "at the same time" but the player may choose the order of what models are setup first.  Eg. Place a frigate first followed by a unit from the shared battalion.

                               -- The battalion setup must be split if you wish to place units into garrison on ships.  As the ship is not considered to be deployed yet during an "at the same time" battalion setup. 

 

At the 11:15 minute mark of this week's Warhammer Weekly, Vince says that GW is aware they broke stuff with this FAQ answer and that they're gonna fix it but I have no idea where he got that info and what the time frame is.

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34 minutes ago, Scruf said:

At the 11:15 minute mark of this week's Warhammer Weekly, Vince says that GW is aware they broke stuff with this FAQ answer and that they're gonna fix it but I have no idea where he got that info and what the time frame is.

Awesome!  Thanks for headsup!  I have emailed FAQ team these as well.  Good to hear they are listening!

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11 hours ago, Kramer said:

Just remember the 2d6 move at the start of the enemy charge phase is linked to being in range of raptors. 
Just to be sure :) 

Never knew this, just saw them played in my buddies SCE list and saw them as allies and figured, cool beans that might work lol. I guess are options at >90 are limited! 

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So, im taking my Kharadron Overlords for a Spin tomorrow, 2000 points, matched play.

Potential enemies include a Troggoth heavy Gloomspite Army, a Varanguard list lead by Archaon, the new Tzeentch stuff and others. 

Quote

Allegiance: Kharadron Overlords
- Sky Port: Barak Zilfin

Kharadron Code
- Artycle: Master The Skies
- Amendment: Prosecute Wars With All Haste
- Footnote: There's Always a Breeze If You Look For It

Leaders
Aetheric Navigator (100)
- Artefact: Svaregg-Stein Illuminator Flarepistol
Endrinmaster with Endrinharness (100)
- General
- Trait: Great Tinkerer
- Artefact: Staff of Ocular Optimisation

Battleline
10 x Arkanaut Company (90)
- 1x Skypikes
- 1x Light Skyhooks
- 1x Aethermatic Volley Guns
10 x Arkanaut Company (90)
- 1x Skypikes
- 1x Light Skyhooks
- 1x Aethermatic Volley Guns
3 x Endrinriggers (100)
- 1x Skyhooks
Arkanaut Frigate (250)
- Main Gun: Heavy Sky Cannon
- Great Endrinworks: Magnificent Omniscope
Arkanaut Frigate (250)
- Main Gun: Heavy Sky Cannon

Units
1 x Grundstok Gunhauler (150)
- Main Gun: Drill Cannon
- Great Endrinworks: Zonbarcorp 'Debtsettler' Spar Torpedo
10 x Grundstok Thunderers (240)

Behemoths
Arkanaut Ironclad (510)
- Main Gun: Great Sky Cannon
- Great Endrinworks: The Last Word

Battalions
Iron Sky Attack Squadron (120)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Wounds: 103
 

I played the same list last week against some Sylvaneth. I really like the mobility and flexibility of the Ironsky squadron. The damage output was a bit lacking but maybe that was just due to my bad luck. 

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18 hours ago, Kadeton said:

your point, even if I think it's a little funny for KO players to complain about another faction getting to teleport a single unit anywhere on the board. ;)

I definitely see the irony lol, and it comes from someone who is 100% enjoying new KO but also plays a few different armies so its not just coming from a KO perspective. I am really miffed about them being better at shooting than KO though lol. 

But the main thing is that Ko literally rely on that fly high ability to drop within range of guns. We have 4" movement across the board on models that cant fly, we cant run and shoot ( except 1x in the fist turn in a specific sky port). Most the weapons are at 9-12" outside of special weapons which are 1 shot profiles and ship guns which are also 1 shot profiles. Exception being thunderers with rifles. We also cant gain any buffs inside the sky ship, so everything is as is.  its AMAZING to be able to change flanks and redeploy where needed, but if you're not dropping within 12" you arent getting even half of your shooting in, and if the opponent gets to take their turn after you, you are getting charged, because you're only 12" away. And sure, ships provide some solid defensive bonuses, but you also cant cap objectives with 1 ship, so if you dont deploy, you're losing the game on objective play. Some battle plans you will straight up lose if you cant take some points in the early game. 

Flamers are 9" fly move, 18" range, have innate scroll buffs that can give them +3 to hit under certain conditions. And in conflagaration, can completely outgun anything in this game.  All at D3 damage shots, which is our best damage profile shot only on special weapons that are 1 ofs per unit ( outside of cannon). 

The teleport is just all around a great tool to have, and its restrictions are laughable. Tablewide teleport any unit. No roll, no range, no command point. Just pick em up and drop em.  Ships have rules, do enough damage, they cant fly high, have a flyer in combat, the ships cant shoot after flying high. baloons, holy within 6" to hitch. garrisoning in or out can only be done before movement, limits to how many in a ship ( often ****** leaders being left on the ground). Theirs alot of restrictions to play around, and while its far from hard, theirs checks and balances. Changehost teleport? Nahhh just scoop em up anywhere anytime as long as LoC is on board. The fact the battalion was initially 2 teleports is a complete joke. 

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12 hours ago, Ser_namron said:

The teleport is just all around a great tool to have, and its restrictions are laughable.

1) Tablewide teleport any unit. No roll, no range, no command point.

2) Just pick em up and drop em. Changehost teleport?

3) Nahhh just scoop em up anywhere anytime as long as LoC is on board. The fact the battalion was initially 2 teleports is a complete joke. 

1) We have the same ability with our ships, following almost the same restrictions (apart from more than 1“ from objectives/terrain)

2) Again, our ships do exactly the same. 

3) LoC on the board is a laughable restriction (see 1))? Just kill that 14 wound unit with a 4+ base save and you cancelled teleportation. Thats basically what our army does without any issue or counterplay at all. 

I‘d say its much harder to stop all our ships from using „fly high“, especially because we have many ways of getting wounds back. 

And Tzeentch pays a hefty price for that battalion. For ONE teleportation. Even for 2 it was a fair mechanic, just the sheer number of „trolltastic“ rules is what makes Tzeentch so frustrating to face. 

 

Your conclusion is right, Tzeentch got the more powerful rules. 

But your way of explaining why has a flawed logic and therefore sounds very „emotional driven“ and hyperbolic. Which I can understand, its upsetting to see the other shooting army get such a treatment.

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2 hours ago, Phasteon said:

1) We have the same ability with our ships, following almost the same restrictions (apart from more than 1“ from objectives/terrain)

2) Again, our ships do exactly the same. 

3) LoC on the board is a laughable restriction (see 1))? Just kill that 14 wound unit with a 4+ base save and you cancelled teleportation. Thats basically what our army does without any issue or counterplay at all. 

I‘d say its much harder to stop all our ships from using „fly high“, especially because we have many ways of getting wounds back. 

And Tzeentch pays a hefty price for that battalion. For ONE teleportation. Even for 2 it was a fair mechanic, just the sheer number of „trolltastic“ rules is what makes Tzeentch so frustrating to face. 

 

Your conclusion is right, Tzeentch got the more powerful rules. 

But your way of explaining why has a flawed logic and therefore sounds very „emotional driven“ and hyperbolic. Which I can understand, its upsetting to see the other shooting army get such a treatment.

The main issue is not that Changehost teleport was abusive (it kinda was, but that's beside the point).  The main issue was that Changehost teleport was abusive AND Tzeentch in general is a better shooting army than KO.

Not that KO absolutely has to be the superior shooting army.  It's mostly that comparing the two armies with each other, it's pretty clear where the problem is

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6 hours ago, mikethefish said:

The main issue is not that Changehost teleport was abusive (it kinda was, but that's beside the point).  The main issue was that Changehost teleport was abusive AND Tzeentch in general is a better shooting army than KO.

Not that KO absolutely has to be the superior shooting army.  It's mostly that comparing the two armies with each other, it's pretty clear where the problem is

Just my opinion, but KO should be a better shooting army than Tzeentch. Tzeentch is a faction that gets to be the best at trickey shenanigans and magic. We have literally no magic, and the only trickery we have is teleporting at the predictable and screenable 9" mark. KO's whole theme is GUNS. And Tzeentch does that better than us too. 

#alittlesaltybutstillloveKO

Edited by Tidings
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Guys don’t forget gw likes to do the ol’ bait and switch..

 

tzeentch and ko came out at the the same time, ones op, ones a little weak. 

 

That could definetley flip flop come next generals handbook this summer. 

 

Thunderers go down to 100 per, battalions get just a little cheaper, tzeentch battalions go up. 

 

Boom. Flip flop. 

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Our army mechanics are unique, and like with the first rendition, KO are trail blazing new rules possibilities. Tzeentch isn’t trail blazing anything new, they have a selection of good stats and good rule mechanics that everyone already is familiar with.  The flamers are a powerful unit but they have lower defenses and wounds than most 120 point units, and no rend.  
We can just string out some units of arkanunts 18” ahead of our skyvessels, and feed them 180 points. For that we get 20x 1” models we can space 1” apart.  Gyrocopters/bombers seem like they are also a good screen choice. Just remember flamers can’t teleport within 9” and make sure to prioritize them as targets. They’ll die.

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3 hours ago, Nick907 said:

Our army mechanics are unique, and like with the first rendition, KO are trail blazing new rules possibilities. Tzeentch isn’t trail blazing anything new, they have a selection of good stats and good rule mechanics that everyone already is familiar with.  The flamers are a powerful unit but they have lower defenses and wounds than most 120 point units, and no rend.  
We can just string out some units of arkanunts 18” ahead of our skyvessels, and feed them 180 points. For that we get 20x 1” models we can space 1” apart.  Gyrocopters/bombers seem like they are also a good screen choice. Just remember flamers can’t teleport within 9” and make sure to prioritize them as targets. They’ll die.

I like the optimism. 

 

Keep in mind they teleport 9 away but have 18” range. Thats a lot of screening to keep an 18” bubble clear. 

 

You can screen your deployment all day but what happens the first time you fly high? Not enough bubble wrap in the world.. 

 

how much offense/ synergy are you giving up for a little bubble wrap that is only saving you for 1 round of shooting?

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