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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion

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2 hours ago, snipersyn said:

No, I'm not asking that. It is understood that only a Hero can only be equipped with 1 artefact. By extension, the rules also restrict equipping an army with 1 artefact only.

The Collector command trait states that 1 extra Hero can be have an artefact as well. The latest FAQ, as I am understanding it, is saying "No." It's written very poorly.

Possibly some people thought it was a way to get around the restrictions of putting an artifact on a named hero? Not that we have any real selection of named heroes, but still... who knows. 

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41 minutes ago, Tidings said:

Sad that there wasn't even a single KO army placing top three in any of the last slew of tournaments. Happy to give it time though; we don't master a new tome overnight and the meta needs time to evolve. 

Unfortunately multiple DoT players mastered their new tome overnight lol. but i agree, in a balanced playing field, people playing armies they dont know very well should be worse then the opponent whose played the same tome for a long time, depending on individual skill and judgement. I think KO can definitely have some really solid results in the hands of someone whose mastered the book. But im also pessimistic of just how high that skill cap can take you, and personally my reaction is....not to the top.  Because armies = power, and if the armys powerful you dont need perfect skills. Not saying the DoT players are just scrubs who picked up the army, the winner of LVO has been playing DoT for years apparently. However if an armies innately strong, obviously their gonna have better results. 

Idk if the meta will change that much tbh. Is everyone gonna start tailoring lists for DoT matchup? because alot of armies dont really have a counter as far as i can tell besides "screen them" and that is honestly a half baked plan at best. Even more so for KO where we have soooooo few bodies in the first place. Theres nothing to really counter or play against DoT alphastrike besides more screens. And with no new changes until summer, the next few weeks might be defining the meta for the next 5 months. 

I'd like to think of myself as pragmatic, but i know that comes off as pessimistic sometimes. KO have some sweet stuff in the tome, and i think for sure we can break into top 50 rankings. maybe top 20. MAYBE top 10. But #1.....im doubtful. Not when ****** like DoT/ PE exist and GW continues to horribly manage the power levels of their game. 

 

58 minutes ago, Tidings said:

Possibly some people thought it was a way to get around the restrictions of putting an artifact on a named hero? Not that we have any real selection of named heroes, but still... who knows. 

Ooh i didnt think of that. Maybe with that Brokk could actually be useful in lists lol ( great unit, just no room for him in current list building) .

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Alright, I've been having trouble figuring out a new 1000pt list, but I have something. I'm close to having the models for a 2k list, but would like something to hold me over until they're built.


++ **Pitched Battle** 1,000 (Order - Kharadron Overlords) [980pts] ++

+ Leader +

Endrinmaster with Dirigible Suit [220pts]: 1. Aethersped Hammer, 1. Bearer of the Ironstar, General - Endrinmaster with Dirigible Suit

+ Battleline +

Arkanaut Company [90pts]: 10 Arkanaut Company, Aethermatic Volley Gun & Gun Butt, Light Skyhook, 7x Privateer Pistol and Arkanaut Cutter, Skypike, Volley Pistol

Skywardens [200pts]: 2x 3 Skywardens, 6x Vulcaniser Pistol and Skypike

Skywardens [200pts]: 2x 3 Skywardens, 6x Vulcaniser Pistol and Skypike

+ Other +

Grundstok Gunhauler [150pts]: 3. Coalbeard's Collapsible Compartments, Drill Cannon

Grundstok Thunderers [120pts]: 5 Grundstok Thunderers, 5x Aethershot Rifle, Gunnery Sergeant, Honour Bearer

+ Allegiance +

Allegiance
. Allegiance: Kharadron Overlords
. . 3) Barak-Zon, City of the Sun

+ Game Options +

Game Type: 1000 Points - Vanguard

++ Total: [980pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

 

The plan is, shove the Thunderers into the Gunhauler and use it to zip around and snipe stuff. It'll also bring the Wardens along to drop off. The Endrinmaster sticks with the Gunhauler for healing and support. Company does its own thing.

Don't know how good it is, but I wanted to make a nice Zon list with Skywardens, and this was the best I could think of under 1k. Any thoughts?

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13 hours ago, Ser_namron said:

Unfortunately multiple DoT players mastered their new tome overnight lol.

In fairness, that version of the DoT battletome immediately got spanked out of existence. Tzeentch armies going forward should be a lot more manageable.

I do think the new KO have a much higher skill cap than most other factions. They're a bit brittle, don't have many bodies on the table, and really rely on getting the most out of their incredible mobility, which is difficult to capitalise on in a melee-dominated, objective-focused game. It's extremely easy to over-extend them, and get terminally punished for it. That kind of finesse does take longer for players to adjust to than more straightforward armies, but I do think KO are capable of great things.

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15 hours ago, DavionStar said:

Any thoughts?

General feeling on the forum is that Endrinriggers are better than Skywardens in almost every way so I guess I’d just be sure that you knew that before you built them as Wardens. 

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I'm seriously consider in to play Skywardens instead of Riggers in my Urbaz Escort Wing list. The reason is because they can take part of the battalion and therefore drop the drops, and benefit from the ability.

 

Allegiance: Kharadron Overlords
- Sky Port: Barak Urbaz
Endrinmaster with Dirigible Suit (220)
- General
Aetheric Navigator (100)
1 x Grundstok Gunhauler (150)
1 x Grundstok Gunhauler (150)
1 x Grundstok Gunhauler (150)
6 x Skywardens (200)
- 2x Drill Launcher
6 x Skywardens (200)
- 2x Drill Launcher
5 x Grundstok Thunderers (120)
Arkanaut Ironclad (510)
Grundstok Escort Wing (140)
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 88
 

This list would be 3 drops. Things that I'm considering also are to drop 1 unit of wardens (and the extra cp) for 10 more Thunderers, so making the flying fortress an insane pew pew machine.

 

I like Wardens, the bad point is that they have a bit less punch out and that they don't repair boats. For that reason, I'm also checking to give them the Volley guns.

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9 minutes ago, 5kaven5lave said:

General feeling on the forum is that Endrinriggers are better than Skywardens in almost every way so I guess I’d just be sure that you knew that before you built them as Wardens. 

The two likely exceptions for that feeling are: if you plan on using them in a grundstock escort wing for shooting/screening exclusively, or if you plan on running Barak Zon, which he is doing. Nothing stopping you from doing both, but I'm still not totally convinced of their usefulness even under those circumstances (although I do like the idea of spear and speargun wielding balloon dwarfs).

 

On an unrelated note: this is my first post, and first army, so since I haven't played any games, it’s all theory hammer. These are the only two models I have painted so far, but plan on finishing Aether War and 2 SCs. Let me know if there is anything else you would do or clean up since I haven't painted much before.

 

I'm also wondering if anybody has considered running the ultimate surprise/fun build of 5 endrinmasters in an ironclad with the ram endrinwork and a skyhook, with rigger escort, and healing nearly to full every turn while smashing stuff with dangling hammers from the side of the boat.

Endrinmaster.jpg

boat front.jpg

boat side.jpg

boat top.jpg

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5 hours ago, Kadeton said:

In fairness, that version of the DoT battletome immediately got spanked out of existence. Tzeentch armies going forward should be a lot more manageable.

They really didnt though. Did they get some nerfs? For sure, and ya they'll be more manageable on the grand scale of things( mainly the DD changes), But those things that changed werent  the sole reason for their current power, and even nerfed are still amazing. Changehost is still ridiculous. its a battalion that lets you take 1 LoC and 7 or 8 other units( cant remember). Thats the restriction. Build your army, and thats now a changehost. Battalions are supposed to tax you for gaining their benefit, maybe you have to take a unit you wouldnt normally, maybe even 2 or 3. Changehost lets you build your army, then slap a fantastic ability on them and make them a 1 drop. Its an auto include for every list because for a measely 180 points you get a 1 drop army, an amazing BOARD WIDE teleport, no restrictions on range besides LoC being on the field, plus the artifact and command point for the actual battalion. 180 points is not a reasonable cost for that level of viability in any list you run as DoT.  KO have some really solid battalions too, but imagine if we had one that said "take a ironclad/frigate and 7 other units" that's all that would be played because its amazingly viable before even discussing its actualy battalion ability.  I can't get over how lenient that battalion is for such an amazing ability. 

and then you got the covens just giving blanket modifiers which is ALWAYS busted. you give +1/-1 to your army in any stat and you've just made them better than their point cost. PE is the most obvious example with a +1 AS and the ability to give anything in the army -1 rend. DoT have the conflagaration coven to give their ranged -1 rend, making their units of horrors and flamers WAY better than their point cost, which is already IMO absurdly low.  Imagine one of our sky ports giving -1 rend to all our weapons profiles, it'd be AMAZING.  Host duplicious main offense was the Horrors being immune to battleshock with DD so they were able to keep armies in deployment because you had a brick of unmoveable horrors. I'm glad that isnt as powerful now. 

Sorry for the rant lol, i just dont think DoT are done being on top just yet, and now we have to deal with them for 5 more months. Idk if you've had a chance to play against DoT yet, specifically the Conflagaration coven, but it'll make you question that KO is in fact supposed to be the shooting themed army. 

 

5 hours ago, Kadeton said:

I do think the new KO have a much higher skill cap than most other factions. They're a bit brittle, don't have many bodies on the table, and really rely on getting the most out of their incredible mobility, which is difficult to capitalise on in a melee-dominated, objective-focused game. It's extremely easy to over-extend them, and get terminally punished for it. That kind of finesse does take longer for players to adjust to than more straightforward armies, but I do think KO are capable of great things.

I agree completely, you summed up the armies shortcomings in the current iteration of the game perfectly. And i do think they are capable of great things, but as it stands currently without any changes ( pt reductions would be huge and imo necesarry for competeing) its an uphill battle. 

 

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2 hours ago, Luzgurbel said:

I'm seriously consider in to play Skywardens instead of Riggers in my Urbaz Escort Wing list. The reason is because they can take part of the battalion and therefore drop the drops, and benefit from the ability.

 

Allegiance: Kharadron Overlords
- Sky Port: Barak Urbaz
Endrinmaster with Dirigible Suit (220)
- General
Aetheric Navigator (100)
1 x Grundstok Gunhauler (150)
1 x Grundstok Gunhauler (150)
1 x Grundstok Gunhauler (150)
6 x Skywardens (200)
- 2x Drill Launcher
6 x Skywardens (200)
- 2x Drill Launcher
5 x Grundstok Thunderers (120)
Arkanaut Ironclad (510)
Grundstok Escort Wing (140)
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 88
 

This list would be 3 drops. Things that I'm considering also are to drop 1 unit of wardens (and the extra cp) for 10 more Thunderers, so making the flying fortress an insane pew pew machine.

 

I like Wardens, the bad point is that they have a bit less punch out and that they don't repair boats. For that reason, I'm also checking to give them the Volley guns.

I’m not seeing what the navigator is doing for this list. I would drop him and the command point to take 5 more thunderers. Honestly I’d drop a gunhauler and the navigator and bump up to 15 thunderers 

 

Because you are taking skywardens in urbaz (and not zon) I would equip them with volley guns and drill cannons to get the most out of the battalion. You probably don’t want them to be in combat even without special weapons. 

Edited by Cauthon

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Here are my thoughts on a 1000 Points List
 

Sky Port Barak Nar

Aetheric Navigator (100)

Endrinmaster with Endrinharness (100) - general

10 x Grundstok Thunderers (240) -

3 x Endrinriggers (100)

1 x Grundstok Gunhauler (150)

Arkanaut Frigate (250)

= 940 

So got some space for an endless spell. Any suggestions? Is this list even any viable?

 

Thanks for help!

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3 hours ago, Nadurebaile said:

The two likely exceptions for that feeling are: if you plan on using them in a grundstock escort wing for shooting/screening exclusively, or if you plan on running Barak Zon, which he is doing.

Yeah, I specifically went Zon to boost the Wardens. Also I already have 9 riggers painted so I'm not short on those if I need themI. I'mstill going to build 6 Wardens from my Aether War box.

Btw, loving that color scheme! I'll approve anything with purple in it. Also no worries now but for next time I do go by they/them.

22 minutes ago, grafcox said:

So got some space for an endless spell. Any suggestions? Is this list even any viable?

 

Thanks for help!

If you want to use an Endless Spell, you'll need a Khemist with the Spell in a Bottle artifact to actually cast it. Navis can dispell by default and their Aetherstorm is a kind of not-spell, but they can't cast. If you're going Nar, all your heroes will get a dispell anyway so unless you have a plan for that Navi, might want to go Khemist instead.

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28 minutes ago, grafcox said:

so got some space for an endless spell. Any suggestions? Is this list even any viable?

You have no casters for an endless spell :( and we dont have many allies at 60 points or less. Aetherwings are 50, they could honestly be usefull against charges. Otherwise i would just take the extra CP for 50. 

It looks like you only have 1 battleline too, so either split the thunderers into 2 groups of 5, or make room for Arkco unit.  you can load the frigate with thunderers, screen said frigate with the riggers/ hauler. Maybe take the collapsible compartment endrinwork to transport your heroes?
 

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Whoops. You guys are right about the caster. Totaly forgot that.

 

And there is something i messed up with the battleline too!

 

New list:

Endrinmaster with Dirigible Suit (220)

10 x Grundstok Thunderers (240)

1 x Grundstok Gunhauler (150)

3 x Endrinriggers (100

Arkanaut Frigate (250)

=960

Forget that Endless Spell..

 

Other Idea could be:

Aetheric Navigator (100)

Endrinmaster with Endrinharness (100) - general

20 x Arkanaut Company (180)

1 x Grundstok Gunhauler (150)

5 x Grundstok Thunderers (120)

3 x Endrinriggers (100)

Arkanaut Frigate (250)

= 1000

Edited by grafcox

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4 minutes ago, grafcox said:

New list:

Endrinmaster with Dirigible Suit (220)

10 x Grundstok Thunderers (240)

1 x Grundstok Gunhauler (150)

3 x Endrinriggers (100

Arkanaut Frigate (250)

=960

Forget that Endless Spell..

Leaving 40 points out of a 1k list feels like alot of points tbh. You can get a free triumph with it, but i dont think thats worth it. You could drop 5 thunderers, take 10 Arkco and a gyrocopter and be at 1000/1000.  But the current list can def work, i just hate leaving points on the table!

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I couldn’t help but notice that a loondrinmaster, gunhauler and 6 riggers is almost exactly one third of a list so...

 

i bring you the triple half dozen triumvirate and ko

 

Loondrinmaster

loondrinmaster 

loondrinmaster

Arkos x 10

Riggers x 6 

riggers x 6

riggers x 6

gunhauler 

gunhauler

gunhauler

 

probably zilfin but could be urbaz or zon or nar even. 

 

 

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My new plan is Khemist with Balloon (Thermal Rider Cloak)... They missed a trick by not making a Balloon an Artefact actually. 

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43 minutes ago, ArmyOfGrodd said:

My new plan is Khemist with Balloon (Thermal Rider Cloak)... They missed a trick by not making a Balloon an Artefact actually. 

Gw doesn’t let any model have rules that there are no models for. So no khemist with balloon because there is no model for it. 

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43 minutes ago, ArmyOfGrodd said:

My new plan is Khemist with Balloon (Thermal Rider Cloak)... They missed a trick by not making a Balloon an Artefact actually. 

Gw doesn’t let any model have rules that there are no models for. So no khemist with balloon because there is no model for it. 

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29 minutes ago, Cauthon said:

Gw doesn’t let any model have rules that there are no models for. So no khemist with balloon because there is no model for it. 

I get that, I’m talking about using the rules for thermal rider cloak but converting a balloon instead of a magic cape :)

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8 hours ago, Ser_namron said:

They really didnt though. Did they get some nerfs? For sure, and ya they'll be more manageable on the grand scale of things( mainly the DD changes), But those things that changed werent  the sole reason for their current power, and even nerfed are still amazing. Changehost is still ridiculous. its a battalion that lets you take 1 LoC and 7 or 8 other units( cant remember). Thats the restriction. Build your army, and thats now a changehost. Battalions are supposed to tax you for gaining their benefit, maybe you have to take a unit you wouldnt normally, maybe even 2 or 3. Changehost lets you build your army, then slap a fantastic ability on them and make them a 1 drop. Its an auto include for every list because for a measely 180 points you get a 1 drop army, an amazing BOARD WIDE teleport, no restrictions on range besides LoC being on the field, plus the artifact and command point for the actual battalion. 180 points is not a reasonable cost for that level of viability in any list you run as DoT.  KO have some really solid battalions too, but imagine if we had one that said "take a ironclad/frigate and 7 other units" that's all that would be played because its amazingly viable before even discussing its actualy battalion ability.  I can't get over how lenient that battalion is for such an amazing ability. 


 

Totally agree , Tzeentch are still no fun to play against. 

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11 hours ago, Ser_namron said:

They really didnt though. Did they get some nerfs? For sure, and ya they'll be more manageable on the grand scale of things( mainly the DD changes), But those things that changed werent  the sole reason for their current power, and even nerfed are still amazing.

From the Kharadron perspective, I guess you're right. KO weren't concerned about getting tarpitted by Horrors nearly as much as other factions, and that's where the DoT took most of the hits. I take your point, even if I think it's a little funny for KO players to complain about another faction getting to teleport a single unit anywhere on the board. ;)

While I think it will take some time for the new DoT to settle into the meta, I think it's interesting that they suffer from some of the same problems as KO. Specifically, it's now extremely easy for them to over-extend and get punished for it, and DD can no longer save them. Their shooting is still amazing, for sure - point for point, I have no doubt they out-shoot a similarly focused KO list, though they can't come close to the KO's ability to redeploy and focus that firepower where it's needed.

I suspect the big change will be in the distribution of armies in competitive events. The DoT vs KO matchup might not have changed a whole lot, but the DoT matchup against most other armies has dramatically shifted. That will presumably lead to fewer DoT armies being fielded overall, which might in turn lead to the rise of Bonereaper armies that everyone was predicting, but which never managed to get off the ground because DoT stomped them flat.

Anyway, should be interesting times ahead, and hopefully KO get some gentle downward points shifts in the next GHB that give them a little more of an edge!

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7 hours ago, ArmyOfGrodd said:

I get that, I’m talking about using the rules for thermal rider cloak but converting a balloon instead of a magic cape :)

Oh man, what if you had an entire army right, 2k points and the whole thing, but you made it all flying units. If you give balloons to heroes with the functionality of the thermal rider cloak, and then you could have a really cool flying only army, with the Aether War flying rules set, and then potentially if you were really into it, go so far as to convert some Thunderers with balloons. Just imagining, but it would be super cool to have an entire 2k list that's flying around. Although, there is the point of no one being able to fit inside ships cuz none of them have the marine keyword if they can fly.

Edit: I totally realized that if it were flying only army using the Aether War no land rules then technically it wouldn't matter about the marine thing since those that can fit inside your ship would be inside the ship the whole time as they cannot fly.

Edited by Sttufe
Oops

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So with no FAQ answer on it, is the Zilfin “There’s always a breeze if you look for it” Hero phase Fly High legal?

It gives you a hero phase normal move on 1 Unit and fly high is “instead of making a normal move”.

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2 hours ago, Sttufe said:

Oh man, what if you had an entire army right, 2k points and the whole thing, but you made it all flying units. If you give balloons to heroes with the functionality of the thermal rider cloak, and then you could have a really cool flying only army, with the Aether War flying rules set, and then potentially if you were really into it, go so far as to convert some Thunderers with balloons. Just imagining, but it would be super cool to have an entire 2k list that's flying around. Although, there is the point of no one being able to fit inside ships cuz none of them have the marine keyword if they can fly.

Edit: I totally realized that if it were flying only army using the Aether War no land rules then technically it wouldn't matter about the marine thing since those that can fit inside your ship would be inside the ship the whole time as they cannot fly.

I really just want the Khemist to be able to keep up with the Wardens/Riggers without having to worry about embarking/disembarking to give out his buffs.

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2 hours ago, ArmyOfGrodd said:

I really just want the Khemist to be able to keep up with the Wardens/Riggers without having to worry about embarking/disembarking to give out his buffs.

Someone mentioned a few pages back about the Dais Arcanum Stormcast ES - 30 points for 12” move and +1 to save (and an unbind?). Would only get you one movement phase or two before your enemy clicked their fingers and dispelled it though I guess.

Speaking of magicy stuff, been thinking about a Nar anti-magic list. Any thoughts on this? 4 unbind at +1 and 2 auto-unbinds per game. Gunhaulers to winkle our their mages and one to carry the Navigator?

Allegiance: Kharadron Overlords
- Sky Port: Barak Nar
Aetheric Navigator (100)
- Artefact: Voidstone Orb  
Aether-Khemist (90)
- General
- Trait: Champion of Progress  
- Artefact: Aethercharged Rune  
Knight-Incantor (140)
10 x Grundstok Thunderers (240)
15 x Grundstok Thunderers (360)
10 x Arkanaut Company (90)
10 x Arkanaut Company (90)
1 x Grundstok Gunhauler (150)
- Main Gun: Drill Cannon
- Great Endrinworks: Coalbeard's Collapsible Compartments
1 x Grundstok Gunhauler (150)
- Main Gun: Drill Cannon
6 x Endrinriggers (200)
Arkanaut Frigate (250)
- Great Endrinworks: Magnificent Omniscope
Grundstok Escort Wing (140)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 106
 

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