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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion

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19 minutes ago, Ser_namron said:

Ive said it before in this thread, but the Gyrocopter is amazing for our army. Ive had so many lists with 70-80 points left over and the options are limited. The copter gives us a MUCH needed horde killer with the steam gun ( models within 8" 3/4-1/1 ). Also has 16" move so it can actually keep up with our army. Makes a great cheap screen unit. Plus, its a flippin' ship boyz, thats flavor town.  Ive been thinking about a unit of 3 to just melt screens turn 1 while i play defensively with the rest of the army using them as a charge screen  for my main ships and shooting that are behind them at 12" range for the weapons. 

Indeed!..im set on using a unit of 3 bombers.For 200 pts you get 15 wounds behind a 4+,pretty decent shooting at 20" range and the fly over bombing is a serious threat at a  fair chance of 3d3 morts..this of course can be done while running and or retreating.

 

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1 hour ago, Thostos said:

Indeed!..im set on using a unit of 3 bombers.For 200 pts you get 15 wounds behind a 4+,pretty decent shooting at 20" range and the fly over bombing is a serious threat at a  fair chance of 3d3 morts..this of course can be done while running and or retreating.

I havent tried bombers out yet! I like the d3 mortals, and i didnt realize you can do it with a run or retreat, thats pretty great. Im using them mainly as horde killers, so im not sure if 3d3 is as good as being able to shoot around 17 shots average ( just in my experience shooting into stabbaz alot recently) with one copter. If i have 3 i could be rolling somewhere around 35+ dice on a horde unit.  But against armies without wimpy hordes i could see the gyrobombers finding way more usefulness. 

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Interesting people are preferring the drill cannon on the Haulers. I’ve been using the sky cannon so far. 

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8 minutes ago, Matt Large said:

Interesting people are preferring the drill cannon on the Haulers. I’ve been using the sky cannon so far.

Drills seem more reliable to me, at least for hero/monster sniping whcih i think is all they really should be going for. That auto 3 MWs on a 5+ is amazing when things have LOS and -hit artifacts/traits. And 36" range is big sexy.  plus -3 rend is getting through most stuff. Also i only roll 1-2 on my shrapnel shots lol. 

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4 hours ago, Boar said:

Curious what`s your reasoning behind this?

Unless you know you are trying to kite, playing the mobility and long range game* which is a significant “if”.

6 shots at a 4+ 4+ at -1 for isn’t much to brag about. This profile would greatly benefit from some bonuses but I don’t see many circumstances where you are getting anything besides reroll 1’s to hit from zilfin or something. 

In a squad of 12 you’ll get rerolls to hit once but after that they just arnt doing much. Having 8 saws and 4 drill cannons would allow you to be effective at shooting and still “scary” in combat. I don’t think it’s is true with 4 saws 4 volley guns and 4 cannons. Now you are “a little” better at ranged but way way way worse in melee so you are losing a ton of tactical flexibility imo. 

 

I think its fair to assume squads of 6 are going to be the most common yes? If they are screening for an ironclad or frigate that want to get close and personal (within 12 for carbines, thunderers cannons and rivet guns) then the volley gun isn’t really any better than the rivet guns (1 less expected hit same profile after that) add in the saws melee to the difference between the damage of the volley gun to the rivet gun I think it’s a no brainer.  

 

However. If you are pairing a unit of riggers with a gunhauler that is jumping around being a super mobile...gun platform then you will absolutely want the extra range the volley gun brings because you are hoping to kite as much as possible. 

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11 hours ago, Sttufe said:

So I have been mulling over a list, would a unit of 3 wardens be good and wouldn't get chewed up that fast, or should I up it to 6 to kind of have that block effect? (speaking from the point of an armchair tactician of course)

Assuming that you are running Barak-Zon to have the bonuses to your wardens:

3 wardens give you 6 wounds at a 4+ save, and do an average of 7.7 damage to a 6+ save on the charge, or 5.2 to a 4+ save (but only when charging).  This is... ok to run into a chaff unit screening an objective.  However, it is only going to tickle larger blocks.

A unit of 6 on the other hand does an average of 14.4 damage to a 6+ save, and 9.6 to a 4+ save.  This unit is enough to clear most screens and take objectives, as most back line objective holders are sitting on about 10 wounds.

On the other hand, a unit of 12 gets access to aether gold, and deals 27.7 damage on the charge to a 6+ save, and 18.5 to a 4+ save.  However, if we really want to kill something, we can re-roll 1's from a chemist (which, since we wound on a 2+ is pretty decent), and we can spend our aether gold to re-roll hits.  If we do that, the damage spikes to 43 to a 6+ save, and 28.8 to a 4+ save.  The only downside to doing things this way is that we can't fly high with this group.

Realistically, I would say that if you want to run a unit of 3, you should probably run endrinriggers.  Riggers can fly high and still shoot with their pistols, they are better in melee when not charging, and they can heal boats.  It is only once you get a squad of 6 that I would consider running skywardens, as they are getting into the range of "can charge and clear objective holders".  I would also stick with 6 if your army is focusing on boats and the fly-high mobility aspect.  However, if you are wanting a solid cavalry force and are willing to spend 400 points to do it, then go with a block of 12 wardens and obliterate a target or two on the charge.

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Well, played my game using my mass bodies list from the other page vs. a Khorne Bloothirster list. Played Focal Points. I don’t like to blame dice but my opponent freely admitted that his dice were amazing and mine were terrible. In spite of that I managed to pull out the win. By one point. Had some bad shooting phases from key units, the Ironclad had some good phases but then put an almighty 2 wounds into a battleline unit with Gold in one shooting phase. Also stupidly got trapped by a Bloodthirster so couldn’t disengage one turn. The bodies did their job though, Fumigators helped the Thunderers stay in the game.

Thank the baby Jesus I won though, was my first win with the new book. Need a lie down now, was far too tense for my liking!!

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Following on from the skywarden discussion, if you ever ran a unit of 3 (for Grundstok battalion, keeping drops to a minimum) what would you arm them with?

This is on the assumption you already have 12 skywardens armed for combat

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30 minutes ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Well, played my game using my mass bodies list from the other page vs. a Khorne Bloothirster list. Played Focal Points. I don’t like to blame dice but my opponent freely admitted that his dice were amazing and mine were terrible. In spite of that I managed to pull out the win. By one point. Had some bad shooting phases from key units, the Ironclad had some good phases but then put an almighty 2 wounds into a battleline unit with Gold in one shooting phase. Also stupidly got trapped by a Bloodthirster so couldn’t disengage one turn. The bodies did their job though, Fumigators helped the Thunderers stay in the game.

Thank the baby Jesus I won though, was my first win with the new book. Need a lie down now, was far too tense for my liking!!

FYI you can fly high/disengage from an enemy that can fly, you just can’t shoot afterwards. (As long as you don’t have to many wounds on you at that time)

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4 hours ago, Cauthon said:

6 shots at a 4+ 4+ at -1 for isn’t much to brag about. This profile would greatly benefit from some bonuses but I don’t see many circumstances where you are getting anything besides reroll 1’s to hit from zilfin or something. 

When it comes to damage output volley gun and drill cannon are actually similar on average, hence my question.

One option could be - in say 6 man unit- taking 2 volley guns, but not in addition, but instead drill cannons. Due to low amount of shots from drills you have quite large chance of doing nothing with them. When constantly and reliably chipping at enemy unit is more valuable to you as player volley guns could be better. Drills are more of high risk, high reward things.

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21 minutes ago, Boar said:

When it comes to damage output volley gun and drill cannon are actually similar on average, hence my question.

One option could be - in say 6 man unit- taking 2 volley guns, but not in addition, but instead drill cannons. Due to low amount of shots from drills you have quite large chance of doing nothing with them. When constantly and reliably chipping at enemy unit is more valuable to you as player volley guns could be better. Drills are more of high risk, high reward things.

Suit yourself but I’ll take the chance to auto mortal wound and -3 rend. That’s going to have a better chance to snipe charecters than more shots with a lousy damage profile.

 

It is high risk high reward but that sums up our whole army imo. 

We are to elite and to squishy to be messing around with low risk low reward. Stuffs got to die quickly before it gets to us.

 

 

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Drill cannons do 3 mortal wounds on a 6 to hit, so shoot volleyguns at enemy infantry and shoot your drills at enemy heroes, spell casters and monsters. Same idea goes for the drill cannons on gunhaulers. 

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so continuing with the list, and keeping recent ideas in mind (thx @readercolin), I want one unit which is fast, mobile, can kite, long range, and I am thinking of 6 endrinriggers (2 drills) on a gunhauler (drill) as deepstrike but also maintaining the range. Then a second gunhauler (sky cannon)  with attached 6 wardens to charge screens and clear objectives, combined with specialed out thunderers, who provide long range support for the wardens in a collapsible compartment. Then followed by two frigates, loaded with 10 arkanauts each, which are kind of a boots on the ground, my own chaff and generic I gotta get something here and it doesn't have to stay there for long, and supported by the frigates main sky cannons,  then paired with 3 bombers who can get the arkanauts out of a sticky situation, and then work out the command stuff and artifacts/endrinworks later. Thoughts and ideas, this coming from a person with 0 experience, would love feedback.

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I¡ve played a game yesterday against a Tzeentch army with some StD units: Varanguard, Knights, Marauders, Archaon and the dude from ForgeWorld that teleport units, Sayl the Faithless.

 

I could test the huge firepower of an Ironclad, but also tested the sheer power of a teleported Varanguard who fought twice (can they fight three times with the CA of a Chaos Lord?). Archaon almost did nothing thanks to the Navigator, but I were overwhelmed by the enemy so I lost the game.

 

The sky cannon disappointed me, so I decide to change to the drill cannon spam. What do you think of this list?

 

Allegiance: Kharadron Overlords
- Sky Port: Barak Urbaz
Endrinmaster with Dirigible Suit (220)
- General
- Artefact: Phosphorite Bomblets
Aetheric Navigator (100)
- Artefact: Svaregg-Stein Illuminator Flarepistol
1 x Grundstok Gunhauler (150)
- Main Gun: Drill Cannon
- Great Endrinworks: Breath of Morgrim (Barak-Urbaz)
1 x Grundstok Gunhauler (150)
- Main Gun: Drill Cannon
1 x Grundstok Gunhauler (150)
- Main Gun: Drill Cannon
6 x Endrinriggers (200)
- 2x Drill Launcher
10 x Arkanaut Company (90)
- 1x Light Skyhooks
- 1x Aethermatic Volley Guns
10 x Arkanaut Company (90)
- 1x Light Skyhooks
- 1x Aethermatic Volley Guns
5 x Grundstok Thunderers (120)
Arkanaut Ironclad (510)
- Main Gun: Great Sky Cannon
- Great Endrinworks: The Last Word
Grundstok Escort Wing (140)
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 1970 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 96
 

I bought 1 Cp because I had 70 spare points and nothing to spend it. 3 drops is the list. 

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7 hours ago, SireScott said:

Following on from the skywarden discussion, if you ever ran a unit of 3 (for Grundstok battalion, keeping drops to a minimum)

just an FYI skywardens dont have to be taken in escort wing because its 0-3 units. 

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8 hours ago, Cauthon said:

FYI you can fly high/disengage from an enemy that can fly, you just can’t shoot afterwards. (As long as you don’t have to many wounds on you at that time)

Cheers ears, yeah I worded it poorly, flew high but couldn’t use the disengage rule to shoot after.

Have been thinking whether I could take a bit of advice from a couple of you guys and swap the unit of 15 Thunderers for a Gunhauler and 6 Shootriggers. Will have a think on it for next time. 

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6 hours ago, Luzgurbel said:

I¡ve played a game yesterday against a Tzeentch army with some StD units: Varanguard, Knights, Marauders, Archaon and the dude from ForgeWorld that teleport units, Sayl the Faithless.

 

I could test the huge firepower of an Ironclad, but also tested the sheer power of a teleported Varanguard who fought twice (can they fight three times with the CA of a Chaos Lord?). Archaon almost did nothing thanks to the Navigator, but I were overwhelmed by the enemy so I lost the game.

 

The sky cannon disappointed me, so I decide to change to the drill cannon spam. What do you think of this list?

 

Allegiance: Kharadron Overlords
- Sky Port: Barak Urbaz
Endrinmaster with Dirigible Suit (220)
- General
- Artefact: Phosphorite Bomblets
Aetheric Navigator (100)
- Artefact: Svaregg-Stein Illuminator Flarepistol
1 x Grundstok Gunhauler (150)
- Main Gun: Drill Cannon
- Great Endrinworks: Breath of Morgrim (Barak-Urbaz)
1 x Grundstok Gunhauler (150)
- Main Gun: Drill Cannon
1 x Grundstok Gunhauler (150)
- Main Gun: Drill Cannon
6 x Endrinriggers (200)
- 2x Drill Launcher
10 x Arkanaut Company (90)
- 1x Light Skyhooks
- 1x Aethermatic Volley Guns
10 x Arkanaut Company (90)
- 1x Light Skyhooks
- 1x Aethermatic Volley Guns
5 x Grundstok Thunderers (120)
Arkanaut Ironclad (510)
- Main Gun: Great Sky Cannon
- Great Endrinworks: The Last Word
Grundstok Escort Wing (140)
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 1970 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 96
 

I bought 1 Cp because I had 70 spare points and nothing to spend it. 3 drops is the list. 

That 70 points sounds like a Gyrocopter (or 80 points for a bomber, you have 80 points left), but for the rest, I don't know, you can take 15 of your dudes somewhere, and I guess there should be one objective at walking distance for the last arkanauts.

Perhaps taking in a few allies as shields would be prudent, Longbeards or similar would work, they could keep an objective longer than your Arkanauts (and also unbind).

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1 hour ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Cheers ears, yeah I worded it poorly, flew high but couldn’t use the disengage rule to shoot after.

Have been thinking whether I could take a bit of advice from a couple of you guys and swap the unit of 15 Thunderers for a Gunhauler and 6 Shootriggers. Will have a think on it for next time. 

So as I understand it, redeploying a unit never counts as retreating and you can always shoot afterwards.

This was in some FAQ, I can try and find it again.

That means that if you can still fly high, even against a flying unit, you can do it and shoot afterwards. However, you can’t retreat and shoot per the disengage rule, si you can’t simply move away a few inches, it has to be a jump.

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29 minutes ago, Asm00 said:

So as I understand it, redeploying a unit never counts as retreating and you can always shoot afterwards.

This was in some FAQ, I can try and find it again.

That means that if you can still fly high, even against a flying unit, you can do it and shoot afterwards. However, you can’t retreat and shoot per the disengage rule, si you can’t simply move away a few inches, it has to be a jump.

I’d love to be wrong, and thanks for the advice, but I feel that the wording of the two rules on the Warscroll directly contradicts this. Fly High is defined at a retreat, and then you can’t shoot if you retreated from a flying unit. 

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8 hours ago, Luzgurbel said:

I¡ve played a game yesterday against a Tzeentch army with some StD units: Varanguard, Knights, Marauders, Archaon and the dude from ForgeWorld that teleport units, Sayl the Faithless.

 

I could test the huge firepower of an Ironclad, but also tested the sheer power of a teleported Varanguard who fought twice (can they fight three times with the CA of a Chaos Lord?). Archaon almost did nothing thanks to the Navigator, but I were overwhelmed by the enemy so I lost the game.

 

The sky cannon disappointed me, so I decide to change to the drill cannon spam. What do you think of this list?

 

Allegiance: Kharadron Overlords
- Sky Port: Barak Urbaz
Endrinmaster with Dirigible Suit (220)
- General
- Artefact: Phosphorite Bomblets
Aetheric Navigator (100)
- Artefact: Svaregg-Stein Illuminator Flarepistol
1 x Grundstok Gunhauler (150)
- Main Gun: Drill Cannon
- Great Endrinworks: Breath of Morgrim (Barak-Urbaz)
1 x Grundstok Gunhauler (150)
- Main Gun: Drill Cannon
1 x Grundstok Gunhauler (150)
- Main Gun: Drill Cannon
6 x Endrinriggers (200)
- 2x Drill Launcher
10 x Arkanaut Company (90)
- 1x Light Skyhooks
- 1x Aethermatic Volley Guns
10 x Arkanaut Company (90)
- 1x Light Skyhooks
- 1x Aethermatic Volley Guns
5 x Grundstok Thunderers (120)
Arkanaut Ironclad (510)
- Main Gun: Great Sky Cannon
- Great Endrinworks: The Last Word
Grundstok Escort Wing (140)
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 1970 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 96
 

I bought 1 Cp because I had 70 spare points and nothing to spend it. 3 drops is the list. 

I might be missing something but how are you at 3 drops with this list? Only the Ironclad, Gunhaulers and Thunderers are in the battalion.

Everything else counts as separate deployments  even if you’re putting it in a boat do they not?

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41 minutes ago, ArmyOfGrodd said:

I might be missing something but how are you at 3 drops with this list? Only the Ironclad, Gunhaulers and Thunderers are in the battalion.

Everything else counts as separate deployments  even if you’re putting it in a boat do they not?

A lot of people are still under the assumption that you can deploy like the old book.

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I just cannot decide what lists I want to build towards haha. Prior to the book I had no interest in Thryng, then I thought maybe Thryng without allied Duardin. Now I’m thinking Hammerers and a warden king look pretty cool. Maybe bridge party popper to deliver them somewhere too. Though at that point could just go with Fyreslayers.

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I need your advice guys. I haven't played a game as Kharadron Overlords yet I already have 1x Battleforce, 1x Start Collecting, 1x Aether-war and 1xIronclad. I'm sure I wan't to play as Barak-Zilfin - KO were always Skyships for me. I have a list but I see it ain't gonna work and need your help.

Allegiance: Kharadron Overlords
Barak-Zilfin

Leaders
Endrinmaster with Dirigible Suit (220)
- General
- Artefact: Staff of Ocular Optimisation
Aetheric Navigator (100)

Battleline
10 x Arkanaut Company (90)
- 1x Skypikes
- 1x Light Skyhooks
- 1x Aethermatic Volley Guns
3 x Endrinriggers (100)
- 1x Aethermatic Volley Guns
- 1x Drill Launcher
3 x Endrinriggers (100)
- 1x Aethermatic Volley Guns
- 1x Drill Launcher

Units
1 x Grundstok Gunhauler (150)
- Main Gun: Drill Cannon
1 x Grundstok Gunhauler (150)
- Main Gun: Drill Cannon
15 x Grundstok Thunderers (360)
- 2x Aetheric Fumigators

Behemoths
Arkanaut Ironclad (510)
- Main Gun: Great Sky Cannon
- Great Endrinworks: The Last Word

Battalions
Grundstok Escort Wing (140)

Total: 1920 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 86
 
Before you rip my list I'd just say what I want on the table and why.
I want the army to be defenitely shooting and Barak-Zilfin. Ironclad for sure. As I said Kharadrons are Ships for me and defenitely want the biggest one in my army. I had the idea to pack it with 15 Thunderers with rifle, and accompany it with 2x3Endrinriggers and try to kill my opponent's centerpiece first round using aethergold on Ironclad or at least make it half-dead.
I was thinking of two Gunhaulers to have mobile artilleries.
What doesn't work is the lack of bodies to hold objectives. 10 Arkanauts are not enough (if only I had 10 more points to spare I'd take another Company). I'm thinking to either take 10 Thunderers instead of 15 or to resign from one Gunhauler and take one more Arkanaut Company. I'm also not sure if two only two heroes are a good idea. Endrinmaster is a must, cause I want to run Endrinriggers as my battleline. Navigator probably too, to have at least 1 guy to mess with opponent's magic.
EDIT:
Is that better?
Spoiler

Allegiance: Kharadron Overlords
Endrinmaster with Dirigible Suit (220)
- General
Aetheric Navigator (100)
Aether-Khemist (90)
10 x Arkanaut Company (90)
10 x Arkanaut Company (90)
3 x Endrinriggers (100)
3 x Endrinriggers (100)
1 x Grundstok Gunhauler (150)
1 x Grundstok Gunhauler (150)
10 x Grundstok Thunderers (240)
Arkanaut Ironclad (510)
Grundstok Escort Wing (140)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 96


 
Edited by Aryann

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2 hours ago, Aryann said:

I need your advice guys. I haven't played a game as Kharadron Overlords yet I already have 1x Battleforce, 1x Start Collecting, 1x Aether-war and 1xIronclad. I'm sure I wan't to play as Barak-Zilfin - KO were always Skyships for me. I have a list but I see it ain't gonna work and need your help.

Allegiance: Kharadron Overlords
Barak-Zilfin

Leaders
Endrinmaster with Dirigible Suit (220)
- General
- Artefact: Staff of Ocular Optimisation
Aetheric Navigator (100)

Battleline
10 x Arkanaut Company (90)
- 1x Skypikes
- 1x Light Skyhooks
- 1x Aethermatic Volley Guns
3 x Endrinriggers (100)
- 1x Aethermatic Volley Guns
- 1x Drill Launcher
3 x Endrinriggers (100)
- 1x Aethermatic Volley Guns
- 1x Drill Launcher

Units
1 x Grundstok Gunhauler (150)
- Main Gun: Drill Cannon
1 x Grundstok Gunhauler (150)
- Main Gun: Drill Cannon
15 x Grundstok Thunderers (360)
- 2x Aetheric Fumigators

Behemoths
Arkanaut Ironclad (510)
- Main Gun: Great Sky Cannon
- Great Endrinworks: The Last Word

Battalions
Grundstok Escort Wing (140)

Total: 1920 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 86
 
Before you rip my list I'd just say what I want on the table and why.
I want the army to be defenitely shooting and Barak-Zilfin. Ironclad for sure. As I said Kharadrons are Ships for me and defenitely want the biggest one in my army. I had the idea to pack it with 15 Thunderers with rifle, and accompany it with 2x3Endrinriggers and try to kill my opponent's centerpiece first round using aethergold on Ironclad or at least make it half-dead.
I was thinking of two Gunhaulers to have mobile artilleries.
What doesn't work is the lack of bodies to hold objectives. 10 Arkanauts are not enough (if only I had 10 more points to spare I'd take another Company). I'm thinking to either take 10 Thunderers instead of 15 or to resign from one Gunhauler and take one more Arkanaut Company. I'm also not sure if two only two heroes are a good idea. Endrinmaster is a must, cause I want to run Endrinriggers as my battleline. Navigator probably too, to have at least 1 guy to mess with opponent's magic.
EDIT:
Is that better?
  Hide contents

Allegiance: Kharadron Overlords
Endrinmaster with Dirigible Suit (220)
- General
Aetheric Navigator (100)
Aether-Khemist (90)
10 x Arkanaut Company (90)
10 x Arkanaut Company (90)
3 x Endrinriggers (100)
3 x Endrinriggers (100)
1 x Grundstok Gunhauler (150)
1 x Grundstok Gunhauler (150)
10 x Grundstok Thunderers (240)
Arkanaut Ironclad (510)
Grundstok Escort Wing (140)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 96


 

What will you choose for artefacts etc? 

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9 hours ago, Asm00 said:

So as I understand it, redeploying a unit never counts as retreating and you can always shoot afterwards.

This was in some FAQ, I can try and find it again.

That means that if you can still fly high, even against a flying unit, you can do it and shoot afterwards. However, you can’t retreat and shoot per the disengage rule, si you can’t simply move away a few inches, it has to be a jump.

This is correct. Gws own faq shows that a set up is never a retreat. All the wording does is shows that you can do either if eligibile.....retreat and shoot (and there by stay in three for objective scoring for eg) or ...fly high and still shoot and and charge but you have to be 9 away and can't go near terrain or objectives

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