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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion

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14 minutes ago, Kramer said:

ehmm, i'd love to say yes or no. But it kinda depends. sorry.

If it's just for Option 1... then no. Because the SC gives you a Gunhauler, 3 endrinriggers/skywardens and two endrinmaster that you won't use. But that's only specific for that list. 

In General: I think the SC is great value now. Get two and you have most of list 2. If you like list one and want to build it into a 1,5K list, suddenly it's great value. Because to list one I would add two gunhaulers and the Escort Wing Battalion and suddenly you're at a fun 1,5K list.  From that perspective only 3 endrinrigger/skywardens and the endrinmasters are unused. 

Especially, and I just now discovered this, the Gunhauler isn't available separately 🤔

The gunhauler is weird, it is available separately, but isn't listed.

If you go to the suggested things in the Start Collecting entry, there is a link to the gunhauler

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-NL/Kharadron-Overlords-Grundstok-Gunhauler-2017

No idea why this is the case.

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2 hours ago, Ellarr said:

rerollable on the turn they're charged through aether gold is too fragile?

So far i havent been able to use gold on them yet for this because theirs always a better option to use it on thats getting attacked. I'd much rather save my 150pt gunhauler that can escape than my crappy little 90pt ArkCo. Now i think they are a solid little unit, but so far in this entire forums discussion of Arkco the idea that you will have reroll saves of 4 for them is being talked like its a guarantee, but that is unrealistic imo.  Only getting to use 1 gold a phase is kinda crappy and ive had multiple times where an Arkco copany dies before using it because their so low priority for it. 

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16 hours ago, Ellarr said:

4+ save, rerollable on the turn they're charged through aether gold is too fragile? O_o. Rerolling bravery due to sitting on an objective.

They are bravery 6 unit. Bravery 5 if you use gold on them. Even with reroll if something kills 5 of them you probably will lose objective anyway. Plus you must understand that you must take 250 pts frigate for them or 90 pts alche or 140 pts admiral. And you will have much more drops than your opponent which is not good too. If you want low drop deployment and control over first turn arco have no place in the roster... sadly. But ofc you can play with squadron battalion and try to outmaneuver your opponents, but this isn't an easy task.

Edited by cofaxest

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54 minutes ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

But it can ONLY be used if it’s your turn’s combat phase. So if it’s the combat phase that’s part of your opponents turn you can’t use it at all. 

Omg you are right 😳

Thats actually horrible and makes no sense as the ability even states that its a DEFENSIVE order..... Wow, thats disappointing

 

Edit: And thats coming from the person that probably defended the tome the most. But that one is a real downer... 

Edited by Phasteon
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The only reason he has 4 CA and they either duplicate or aren’t that good is because there is a build to generate LOTS of cp. I’ll be mostly using cp for RR 1s to hit generic command. 

Anyone have core book handy? Is shyish command ability to give out extra attacks melee only?

Edited by sal4m4nd3r

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1 hour ago, Kramer said:

ehmm, i'd love to say yes or no. But it kinda depends. sorry.

If it's just for Option 1... then no. Because the SC gives you a Gunhauler, 3 endrinriggers/skywardens and two endrinmaster that you won't use. But that's only specific for that list. 

In General: I think the SC is great value now. Get two and you have most of list 2. If you like list one and want to build it into a 1,5K list, suddenly it's great value. Because to list one I would add two gunhaulers and the Escort Wing Battalion and suddenly you're at a fun 1,5K list.  From that perspective only 3 endrinrigger/skywardens and the endrinmasters are unused. 

Especially, and I just now discovered this, the Gunhauler isn't available separately 🤔

Ah. I thought the gunhauler ist just a different build option, but could also be build into a frigate. Like the Dragon or the Terrorgheist in the FEC SC.

 

Thanks for your help.

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2 minutes ago, grafcox said:

Ah. I thought the gunhauler ist just a different build option, but could also be build into a frigate. Like the Dragon or the Terrorgheist in the FEC SC.

 

Thanks for your help.

There is a bit of a size difference between the two, I think the frig is about 150% the length of the gunhauler, and the Ironclad relates similarely to the frig.

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6 minutes ago, grafcox said:

Ah. I thought the gunhauler ist just a different build option, but could also be build into a frigate. Like the Dragon or the Terrorgheist in the FEC SC.

 

Thanks for your help.

No worries. 

but it’s not the same box. All ships are separate kits. 

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OK, List time! i got a 1200 pt game coming up with a weird battleplan. The most succint parts are that:

  1. We'll be fighting over 3 objectives. One in the center of the board. The other two each player places with restrictions.
  2. Deployment is 8" off the edge of the board. the board is 4x4
  3. You score a point for controlling 1 objective, or 2 points if you control more objectives than you opponent
  4. You score one point for holding the center objective
  5. You score at the beginning of your turn

So I'm looking at just being able to hold two objectives. I have a plan for placement so I'm looking at building a list to hold two objectives continuously. My army must include an Arkanaut Admiral. We're building under 1000pt rules (so 4 heroes, 2 BL, etc.) So the list I'm thinking of is this:

  • General - Arkanaut Admiral
  • Leader - Bjorgen Thundrik
  • 20 Arkanaut Company
  • Thundrik's Profiteers
  • 5 Grundstok Thunderers (all rifles)
  • 3 Endrinriggers (saws and rivets)
  • 3 Endrinriggers (saws and rivets)
  • Grundstok Gunhauler
  • Arkanaut Frigate

At the moment my Skyport is Barak-Urbaz, but I can move into Barak-Zilfin or Barak-Nar if needed. At the moment I'm in Urbaz for flexibility of command trait and artefact for my general. I'd take War-wound trait with Mask-Hailer as artefact. 

The plan would be for Thundrik and 20 ArCo to sit on a close objective while the frigate (Garrisoned by Admiral, Thunderers, and Profteers), Gunhauler, and Endrinriggers battle for control of the middle objective. Everyone shoots at greater than 9" excepting the Admiral and Drakkskewer so after a fly High I can open a shooting salvo against anyone in the center before me. 

So I ask for opinions on if i'm missing something or should think of something else. My endrinrigger kitting is either saws and rivets (if they play as screens that'll get charged) or special weapons (If i keep them behind to heal the frigate and out of close combat). I'm leaning to Saws and rivets at the moment. 

Edited by DeadpoolNakago

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7 hours ago, DeadpoolNakago said:My endrinrigger kitting is either saws and rivets (if they play as screens that'll get charged) or special weapons (If i keep them behind to heal the frigate and out of close combat). I'm leaning to Saws and rivets at the moment. 

This is where I’m hung up as well. I think I need to play a dozen games or so to get an idea of which way I prefer playing them. Generally not a fan of magnetizing minis arms and weapons. :/

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Ok guys I made a list so flexible I think I sprained something. 

 

Loondrinmaster- tough as boots, repulsion field

 

Endrinriggers x6

endrinriggers x 6

endrinriggers x 12

 

frigate- cannon, omniscope 

frigate- cannon

 

Thunderers x 10 rifles

thunderers x 10 rifles

 

settle the grudges, take what you are owed, no reward without risk. 

 

So you can be zilfin for the runs and relics. Have all you riggers go full shooting  

Urbaz for the extra gold shares for your big block and avoiding the penalty. Would just go drill cannons and skyhook no volley guns. 

Could go Zon and make your big block skywardens, command trait and relic go great on the loondrinmaster if you want to go mix it up. 

 

With that many drill cannons, cannons and however many volley guns it’s safe to assume most ppl are coming straight at us. I don’t think it will be to hard to get the counter charge off with the big unit of riggers/wardens, 12 inch move and hopefully rerolling a charge. If you arnt hanging back playing gunline. 

 

Can hopefully deplete the enemy early, lots of repairs, ppls seem to like targeting the ships. 

Two frigates with endrinrigger and thunderers running around doing stuff. 

Hero centric missions are going to be hard but hey guns and mobility. 

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10 hours ago, Phasteon said:

Omg you are right 😳

Thats actually horrible and makes no sense as the ability even states that its a DEFENSIVE order..... Wow, thats disappointing

 

Edit: And thats coming from the person that probably defended the tome the most. But that one is a real downer... 

This is one of the things I see getting FAQ‘d pretty soon to be usable in either combat phase.

 

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4 hours ago, Cauthon said:

Ok guys I made a list so flexible I think I sprained something. 

 

Loondrinmaster- tough as boots, repulsion field

 

Endrinriggers x6

endrinriggers x 6

endrinriggers x 12

 

frigate- cannon, omniscope 

frigate- cannon

 

Thunderers x 10 rifles

thunderers x 10 rifles

 

settle the grudges, take what you are owed, no reward without risk. 

 

So you can be zilfin for the runs and relics. Have all you riggers go full shooting  

Urbaz for the extra gold shares for your big block and avoiding the penalty. Would just go drill cannons and skyhook no volley guns. 

Could go Zon and make your big block skywardens, command trait and relic go great on the loondrinmaster if you want to go mix it up. 

 

With that many drill cannons, cannons and however many volley guns it’s safe to assume most ppl are coming straight at us. I don’t think it will be to hard to get the counter charge off with the big unit of riggers/wardens, 12 inch move and hopefully rerolling a charge. If you arnt hanging back playing gunline. 

 

Can hopefully deplete the enemy early, lots of repairs, ppls seem to like targeting the ships. 

Two frigates with endrinrigger and thunderers running around doing stuff. 

Hero centric missions are going to be hard but hey guns and mobility. 

Have been running something similar but with a hero and some ArCo instead of the block of 12 Riggers. Bringing some screens into my list really helped me bring all my force to bear when my turn came around. With Zilfin the movement is great and full shooting Riggers are a scary prospect for your opponent. The only downside to Riggers is that they are fragile if not screened. Let us know how you get on!

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14 hours ago, cofaxest said:

They are bravery 6 unit. Bravery 5 if you use gold on them. Even with reroll if something kills 5 of them you probably will lose objective anyway. Plus you must understand that you must take 250 pts frigate for them or 90 pts alche or 140 pts admiral. And you will have much more drops than your opponent which is not good too. If you want low drop deployment and control over first turn arco have no place in the roster... sadly. But ofc you can play with squadron battalion and try to outmaneuver your opponents, but this isn't an easy task.

Killing 5 of them means 10 wounds without rend on average. That's what you'd expect out of a 300 point Liberator unit. If somebody's throwing 300 points at 90 points of your army then I'd hope that it does a bit of damage. The kind of units that will run through an arkanaut squad are either expensive and can't afford the distraction or are glass cannons that will die on the crack back. Do you have a realistic game scenario where the arkanaut squad dies for nothing?

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22 minutes ago, novembermike said:

Killing 5 of them means 10 wounds without rend on average. That's what you'd expect out of a 300 point Liberator unit. If somebody's throwing 300 points at 90 points of your army then I'd hope that it does a bit of damage. The kind of units that will run through an arkanaut squad are either expensive and can't afford the distraction or are glass cannons that will die on the crack back. Do you have a realistic game scenario where the arkanaut squad dies for nothing?

The main problem is that the unit that will kill them is standing on the board and scoring and your unit is dead. So they die for nothing. Because this game is more about scoring than killing. So your typical scoring squad of arco will cost you 340 pts (arco+frigate) and it will be only 11 scoring models. 

Edited by cofaxest

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2 hours ago, cofaxest said:

The main problem is that the unit that will kill them is standing on the board and scoring and your unit is dead. So they die for nothing. Because this game is more about scoring than killing. So your typical scoring squad of arco will cost you 340 pts (arco+frigate) and it will be only 11 scoring models. 

But that can be said about every single unit in the game that gets killed on an objective. 

Just answer his question, which unit that costs a comparable amount of points kills the Arkanauts?

There are probably some, but not in every players „competitive list“

Edited by Phasteon
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I think in an elite army, ArCo are the only unit where we can compete in terms of points for model. For that 340 points, what else would you get? 15 Thunderers sounds good but then they move 4”. 9 Skyriggers that can’t hitch? I’d take the movement personally. Add in the Attack Squadron and you’ve got some serious utility.  But everything in moderation right? No-ones taking 3x40 ArCo, but 2/3x10 for screens seems like a good shout. 

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20200125_121602_HDR.jpg.ed7e64d27cac809cce341bea135512d9.jpgSo I have played agains IJ today.

My roster: squadron, 3 frigates, 3x10 arco, 12 wardens, 5 thunderers, alche, admiral and navigator

His roster: ironfist, 2x3 goregruntas, 1x6 goregruntas, 2x10 ardboys, 2 warchanters, 1 shaman and 1 mawkrasha. 

He takes first turn and charge 12 wardens with teleported 10 ardboys and 10 arco that screening my frigate with other 10 arco. 

In the end of the turn I was able to score 3 pts and he score 6. He kills 10 arco and 4 wardens, I kill 3 goregruntas, warchanter and 1 ardboy

On turn two he take the initiative and kill 20 arco, alche and 3 wardens and score 8 more points. I kill 9 ardboys, warchanter and 2 more goregruntas and score 3 more points.

On turn three I confess. It was unbearable for me to turn the tide. Even If I manage to score some point the is no chances that I could compensate 8 points gap. 

In the end I can't say that I feel my army as "weak", but at the same time I would appreciate better synergy between our models. And if we replay our game I would definitely take 10 more arco vs alche just to screen my wardens from first turn charge.

Edited by cofaxest
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Yeah, chasing the game is something I’m having to learn with this army but it’s taking some practise. I’ve come from the ‘here’s my horde, come and get me’ school of AoS so I feel like I’m relearning the game. Pushing round the smaller number of models gives me time to think rather than faff though and I’m enjoying the playstyle a lot. Just not doing very well with it (because I suck at Warhammer 😅). 

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3 hours ago, 5kaven5lave said:

I think in an elite army, ArCo are the only unit where we can compete in terms of points for model. For that 340 points, what else would you get? 15 Thunderers sounds good but then they move 4”. 9 Skyriggers that can’t hitch? I’d take the movement personally. Add in the Attack Squadron and you’ve got some serious utility.  But everything in moderation right? No-ones taking 3x40 ArCo, but 2/3x10 for screens seems like a good shout. 

Gunhauler+6 skyriggers looks better for me.

Edited by cofaxest
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3 hours ago, cofaxest said:

20200125_121602_HDR.jpg.ed7e64d27cac809cce341bea135512d9.jpgSo I have played agains IJ today.

My roster: squadron, 3 frigates, 3x10 arco, 12 wardens, 5 thunderers, alche, admiral and navigator

His roster: ironfist, 2x3 goregruntas, 1x6 goregruntas, 2x10 ardboys, 2 warchanters, 1 shaman and 1 mawkrasha. 

He takes first turn and charge 12 wardens with teleported 10 ardboys and 10 arco that screening my frigate with other 10 arco. 

In the end of the turn I was able to score 3 pts and he score 6. He kills 10 arco and 4 wardens, I kill 3 goregruntas, warchanter and 1 ardboy

On turn two he take the initiative and kill 20 arco, alche and 3 wardens and score 8 more points. I kill 9 ardboys, warchanter and 2 more goregruntas and score 3 more points.

On turn three I confess. It was unbearable for me to turn the tide. Even If I manage to score some point the is no chances that I could compensate 8 points gap. 

In the end I can't say that I feel my army as "weak", but at the same time I would appreciate better synergy between our models. And if we replay our game I would definitely take 10 more arco vs alche just to screen my wardens from first turn charge.

Honestly it was probably over when your block of wardens got charged and then you didn’t get a double turn when he was in your face  

 

Wardens should have been in a corner screened by a frigate screened by arkos. 

You (should) know ij going to get all the way across the board in a turn, wardens can either leapfrog the frigate or it can just take off. Wardens get to slam into whatever looks tasty. 

 

What barak were you? Warden load out? 

Edited by Cauthon
Clarity

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22 hours ago, DeadpoolNakago said:

OK, List time! i got a 1200 pt game coming up with a weird battleplan. The most succint parts are that:

  1. We'll be fighting over 3 objectives. One in the center of the board. The other two each player places with restrictions.
  2. Deployment is 8" off the edge of the board. the board is 4x4
  3. You score a point for controlling 1 objective, or 2 points if you control more objectives than you opponent
  4. You score one point for holding the center objective
  5. You score at the beginning of your turn

So I'm looking at just being able to hold two objectives. I have a plan for placement so I'm looking at building a list to hold two objectives continuously. My army must include an Arkanaut Admiral. We're building under 1000pt rules (so 4 heroes, 2 BL, etc.) So the list I'm thinking of is this:

  • General - Arkanaut Admiral
  • Leader - Bjorgen Thundrik
  • 20 Arkanaut Company
  • Thundrik's Profiteers
  • 5 Grundstok Thunderers (all rifles)
  • 3 Endrinriggers (saws and rivets)
  • 3 Endrinriggers (saws and rivets)
  • Grundstok Gunhauler
  • Arkanaut Frigate

At the moment my Skyport is Barak-Urbaz, but I can move into Barak-Zilfin or Barak-Nar if needed. At the moment I'm in Urbaz for flexibility of command trait and artefact for my general. I'd take War-wound trait with Mask-Hailer as artefact. 

The plan would be for Thundrik and 20 ArCo to sit on a close objective while the frigate (Garrisoned by Admiral, Thunderers, and Profteers), Gunhauler, and Endrinriggers battle for control of the middle objective. Everyone shoots at greater than 9" excepting the Admiral and Drakkskewer so after a fly High I can open a shooting salvo against anyone in the center before me. 

So I ask for opinions on if i'm missing something or should think of something else. My endrinrigger kitting is either saws and rivets (if they play as screens that'll get charged) or special weapons (If i keep them behind to heal the frigate and out of close combat). I'm leaning to Saws and rivets at the moment. 

Because you score at the beginning of your turn. You either need to survive his turn or Bank on a double. I would get some screens in there. So you can block out the objective holders. 
mor even a big squad of arkanauts like you suggest yourself. 

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I just purchased some Arkanauts. Will be adding a steady stream of dwarves to my skyport in the following months, following a "buy one, build one" approach, where I buy a set, then kitbash as many from other dwarves, halflins or humans (and maybe even the odd elf), to signify the way my skyport and Tempest's Eye city integrate.

That will keep diversity and hobby challenge up, while keeping costs down.

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