AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion

[Tittliewinks22]

3 hours ago, Nymzee said:

Hi all, first time poster and very recent reader of the forum. I've just decided to get into AoS after last buying models about 15 years ago. I've never actually played the game before but come from a D&D background so used to dice games. I decided to get into KO as I love steampunk and their very original themes. I bought the battletome and the battleforce this week so will be building that up soon.

I have a few friends who have also just started AoS and the aim is to eventually join our local gaming club. Now... I am a super competitive person and although I know at the moment KO are a pretty subpar army I'd like to try and at least be as competitive as possible. So really then my question is what are the most optimal 1k lists I can field? I'm reading through the battletome and it's a little information overload at the minute but I think the battleforce is a good base. 

Thanks for any answers I receive.

First thing first, go check out the FAQ on the GW website. There's tons of changes to the battletome and it doesn't work as written for a lot of the weapons/units/artefacts.

For 1k.

Khemist and 2x 10 arkanauts eat up 400 points and get you the mandatory 1 leader 2 battleline.

With the 600 remaining, I recommend a squad of 6-9 endrinriggers.  Also, if you aren't barok-nar, a Navigator is a decent option for unbinding (magic is big right now).

[Lossen]

U can bring in allies:  1 for every 4'th unite u have. to a max of 400 points worth of allies, at a 2000point game. this will not mess up ur alligance

 

 

[Funstock Funhauler]

Putting allies in my army gives me a bad taste in my mouth. No, The Thrungrim Mercenary Co & Yacht Club Society keeps theirs clean. Exclusive membership only! You must be under 1,50 meters tall to ride and your (untangled) beard must touch your belt. No exceptions.

[DrDemento]

On 8/6/2018 at 11:17 PM, Lossen said:

 

Im still not clear what to bring, atm im stuck on this list. have a upcoming tournament in sept. thinking of Barak-Urbaz as my skyport.

this any good, u guys think?

 

LEADERS :

Aether-Khemist (160) - General

Knight-Incantor (140

 

I’m new to KO, playing doubles with my friend and wanting to understand their options better.  Spent half a day last weekend studying the ports and even generic options.  Urbaz looks great but really should have at least two khemists to maximize benefit from Urbaz abilities and keep it going when one gets killed.  Give one the aethershock cannon (a must) and the other the aethershock loupe for an unbind.  Allied wizard probably still a good call on a 2k list. 

Nar with all the unbinding looks like might be another good alternative to alphastrike Zilfin or Mhornar.  We play against a lot of  Nurgle and Tzeentch  so I think Nar against those.  

We also face a lot of destruction so thinking Urbaz against them.

[V1NZ]

On 8/7/2018 at 9:18 AM, Tittliewinks22 said:

Any reason to run skywardens now that they're the same points as endrinriggers?

I also have the same question. Anyone smarter than me can answer this ?

The only thing I see is that in melee you get 2" attack that could go through a unit of Arkaunault right in front of it. Special weapons are the same, but you loose the Skypikes too so loosing some punch too in melee if you do use it. And the basic Shooting are worst than Endrinriggers.

[Kramer]

3 hours ago, V1NZ said:

I also have the same question. Anyone smarter than me can answer this ?

The only thing I see is that in melee you get 2" attack that could go through a unit of Arkaunault right in front of it. Special weapons are the same, but you loose the Skypikes too so loosing some punch too in melee if you do use it. And the basic Shooting are worst than Endrinriggers.

I asked the same question as well. And so far I can’t really wrap my head about it. The only thing I can think of is IF your using 6 or 9 balloons as an offensive squad to get stuck in endrinriggers will be slightly better.  The saws, compared to the skypikes, fare better against elite things with a better save. On top of that the shooting weapon might average out a little better for the endrinriggers but I haven’t done the math for them. 

So personally I’m stuck with 3 skywardens I bought painted. With two special weapons. So I’m going to use those as a mobile gun platform. Grappling objectives and shooting from there. (Fits better with the mines as well) And build the other three as endrinriggers and move them aggressively forward all with saw. And after a few games build up those that add the most value. 

[Nick907]

I'm toying with a new build idea but I'm not ready to commit. I dislike the Khemist and want to build a sky fleet without him, and use small rigger units to repair.  I think the Gunhauler's 'escort' ability might be necessary to help the Ironclad take a big hit.  Can repair a max of 11 wounds per turn. I have not tested this list, but I've done similar at 1000 points. 

Edrinmaster w/autotinkerer
Ironclad w/selfhealinghull
Gunhauler
3x10 Company w/volleyguns
5x3 Edrinriggers w/volleygun and drillcannon
4x Gyrobombers
1980 points

Let me know what you think?

[WatcherintheWater]

@Nick907 looks cool, and I could see the MSU Endrinriggers being fun, but I see a few issues

•  Only 1 hero, and if he stays in the boat he can’t use command abilities.
• If you keep all the healing stuff in or by the ironclad, that’s over half your army clustered right together.
• Not that familiar with they gyrobombers, but feels like your list lacks some damage output. 

I don’t mean to be a downer, just pointing out some things to consider.

[stratigo]

Endrinriggers are strictly better in roughly 90 percent of situations.

[Nick907]

11 hours ago, WatcherintheWater said:

•  Only 1 hero, and if he stays in the boat he can’t use command abilities.
• If you keep all the healing stuff in or by the ironclad, that’s over half your army clustered right together.
• Not that familiar with they gyrobombers, but feels like your list lacks some damage output. 

 

1. Yeah one hero, I'm not big on them, I wish I could still elect a unit champ to be general.
2. this is true
3. gyrobombers are great for screening alpha strikes and dropping mortal wounds on units that lock up with the Ironclad (assuming it can survive combat)

[Kramer]

On 8/15/2018 at 6:26 AM, stratigo said:

Endrinriggers are strictly better in roughly 90 percent of situations.

Haha any supporting arguments by chance? 

[WatcherintheWater]

One thing I want to try with my Skywardens is to make better use of the 2" reach. If you could use a ship + a unit of Arkanauts to make a ring around a unit of skywardens and a Khemist stitting on an objective, that could be nasty to charge. Assuming the charging unit has 1" reach, they would have to go after the arkanauts or ship, and the buffed Skywardens would get a turn of fighting before they could be hit . It would work even better with some Dwarf Warrior or Ironbreaker allies.

[stratigo]

9 hours ago, Kramer said:

Haha any supporting arguments by chance? 

their shooting attack is statistically better and their melee attack is statistically better.

[Nick907]

Don't forget that Edrinriggers can repair skyvessels! My 2000 point list can repair up to 11 wounds per turn!

[Kramer]

1 hour ago, stratigo said:

their shooting attack is statistically better and their melee attack is statistically better.

Haha let me rephrase that. Just for the Challenge of it. What’s the 10% when you’d prefer the skywardens? 

[V1NZ]

Just now, Kramer said:

Haha let me rephrase that. Just for the Challenge of it. What’s the 10% when you’d prefer the skywardens? 

I think the answer is when you need one more inch of reach in close combat. Because you are behind Arkaunault or because you have 12 riggers. 

I’m right? Do I win something?

[Tittliewinks22]

56 minutes ago, Kramer said:

Haha let me rephrase that. Just for the Challenge of it. What’s the 10% when you’d prefer the skywardens? 

The only really relevant time I can think of is when playing vs the Nighthaunt.  The sky mines are good vs blobs of flying guys.

[Rachmani]

It's basically the Khemist that singlehandedly makes Skywardens so much worse than the Riggers. 
They're worse without the buff (except in units so large the 2" reach makes a difference) but much worse with the buff. 
4+ to hit REALLY hurts them & I'm not sure why they don't hit on 3 (rest stays the same). 
They do get better with "Settle the Grudges" though and that's where I see some potential but probably not enough.

 

[stratigo]

16 hours ago, Kramer said:

Haha let me rephrase that. Just for the Challenge of it. What’s the 10% when you’d prefer the skywardens? 

Some armies the mines are useful, and extra reach has conceptual argument for its utility

[Rachmani]

Instead of (or maybe in addition to) 3+ hit I could also see "+1 attack when charging" as a special rule for them. 

Would compensate some of their weakness & also make them less reliant of the Khemist buff. 

But something else that occurred to me. They did get their points increased, didn't they? Do you guys think that's an indicator of a 2.0 book some time soon? February or something like that?

[Nick907]

I can't help but think the best way to 'fix' KO is to delete the khemist warscroll completely. 

[Naflem]

57 minutes ago, Nick907 said:

I can't help but think the best way to 'weaken' KO is to delete the khemist warscroll completely. 

post edited. 

[Nick907]

The Khemist is why the Thunderer warscroll had to be changed. A mortar team as written was okay, but doubling the shots was too much.  Adding an extra shot to a weapon profile is an uninspiring game mechanic, and the difference in values between augmented and not-augmented is too great to be properly balanced by point costs. 

[Arkanaut Admiral]

What if the Khemists ability was changed to a flat +1 to hit and wound across the board?  Extra hits because weapon recharges quicker between use.  Extra wounds because it’s overcharged?

Edited August 18, 2018 by Arkanaut Admiral

[Rachmani]

That would depend on the overall "balance overhaul", I guess.
There would be many ways to incorporate the Khemist-Buff. Rerolls, +1 to hit, to wound, both, something inbetween. +1 Attack via command ability. The list is long. 
It all depends on the rest, because without the Khemist-Buff as is, KO would need an overhaul & a few new units to fill the blanks even more. 
With that being said, I'm all for it. If a Buffer leads to a unit being nerfed, the buffer is probably too strong.