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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion

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10 minutes ago, cofaxest said:

You honestly think that 1 shot 3+/3+/-2/d6 can compensate 6 shots 4+/3+/-2/d3? 

D6 shots 2 Damage on the frigats skycannon/flat 6 for Ironclads, 2 Damage on the carbines, stronger in close combat, more mobility, better saves, better protection from infantry with in, etc. 

List building should be based around our ships now.

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Posted (edited)

I think everyone is missing the buried lede.

Thundrik's Profiteers are 140 points now.

So setting aside the shooty fellas for a moment, Thundrik himself can, in the hero phase, pick 1 Skyfarers unit wholly within 12" and give them re-rolling 1's to hit. This is kinda cool as the Aether-Khemist gives re-rolling wounds of 1 so there could be some benefit to bringing Thundrik for easy hit re-rolls now.

The shooting isn't awful either, as they get +1 to hit while being near Thundrik. Their wounding is godawful for some reason, but they have a fair amount of attacks - 10 at 18" range, 2 at 12, 2 at 9 and 3D6 from Thundy himself at 9.

There could well be something here.

 

Edited by plavski
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7 minutes ago, plavski said:

I think everyone is missing the buried lede.

Thundrik's Profiteers are 140 points now.

So setting aside the shooty fellas for a moment, Thundrik himself can, in the hero phase, pick 1 Skyfarers unit wholly within 12" and give them re-rolling 1's to hit. This is kinda cool as the Aether-Khemist gives re-rolling wounds of 1 so there could be some benefit to bringing Thundrik for easy hit re-rolls now.

The shooting isn't awful either, as they get +1 to hit while being near Thundrik. Their wounding is godawful for some reason, but they have a fair amount of attacks - 10 at 18" range, 2 at 12, 2 at 9 and 3D6 from Thundy himself at 9.

There could well be something here.

 

Been looking at this unit.  They got a points decrease, too.

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Posted (edited)

The Frigate and Gunhauler are much better, too. I actually think the Gunhauler might be the most efficient pick of the bunch. Here's a comparison of damage outputs for the ships & how many rend 1 wounds they can take. Not exactly a 1-1 comparison, since Gunhaulers can't cary marines, but they they can Fly High with Riggers/Wardens (I think), which is great.

image.png.80dcde356ba15fd242c6a403acd78ab3.png

 I think the first list I'm go for is a Skywarden heavy Barak Zon Escort Wing.

I know some people are worried about power level, and I think that's fair. There is nothing in this book that can match the damage output of buffed up Riggers or 40 Arkanauts with Skyhooks from before. I think we've traded firepower for more durability & mobility. We will need to get some games in before we can really say whether this book is more or less powerful than before, but I think the rules are cooler & fit the fluff way better, so I'm happy.

Edited by WatcherintheWater
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Ironclad with Tunderers inside for an absolute beast of a gunnery unit and then a gunhauler and endring riggers is what im probably starting with.

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35 minutes ago, Gecktron said:

D6 shots 2 Damage on the frigats skycannon/flat 6 for Ironclads, 2 Damage on the carbines, stronger in close combat, more mobility, better saves, better protection from infantry with in, etc. 

List building should be based around our ships now.

I want viable options. Plus I don't think that our ship for 250 pts will be as affective as 270 pts of witches or demonette. I want to have option to use my 80 arcanaut as well as my 4 frigates and 6 gunhawlers. This is the main problem for me. With new book we doesn't get more options to play, we just traid one option for another. 

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An anti-synergy to be aware of is that only 7 models can hitch if a ship goes sky high. However, you need 10 in a unit to be valid for aether gold outside of the port bonus. So if you take 10 skryriggers for gold, you can be left behind by a ship.

This might not come up too often, but something to be aware of when list making.

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5 hours ago, WatcherintheWater said:

Barak Zilfin - An Ironclad and a couple Frigates with a Lord Ordinator Plus some Thunderers, Arkanauts, & a couple heroes. Would be cool if you could fit in a second Ironclad, but probably not optimal.

If you go for the ships shooting is a escort wing not more effective? More guns, extra ship trait, command point. 

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2 hours ago, crkhobbit said:

Unless I'm mathing wrong, Thunderers have the same damage output versus a 4+ save target, same wounds.  But they cost 33% more for... more range.  Not sure it's worth that premium.

Thunderers with aetherrifles have double the range, so quite often they will either, do more damage with more models in range or will be able to direct they firepower better.  But you are mathing correctly.

Thunderers with mixed special weapons OTH, have shorter range  - but still advantage over arkanauts - and they have better firepower then arkanauts. And if they are NOT boarded on ship, they gain +1 to hit on spec. weapons (not fumigator) if they have full complement of those. This pushes them to about 4 unsaved dmg vs 4+ save compared to 2,5 of arkanauts.

 

 

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7 hours ago, madmac said:

New Endrinrigger looks super-great, so that'll make everyone happy when he doesn't get released for a year+.

I'm just about to order Thundriks lot to give me a spare skywarden. Then I'm going to use the Endrinmaster and one of the Balloon Boys from my unused Start Collecting to custom build my own.

Now if only I can figure out a decent way to mount the Ironclad on a flying stand I'll be happy. I don't want to go down the plonking it on top of a ruin route as I always think they look like they are crashing.

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2 hours ago, crkhobbit said:

Unless I'm mathing wrong, Thunderers have the same damage output versus a 4+ save target, same wounds.  But they cost 33% more for... more range.  Not sure it's worth that premium.

The range is Very important though. I want to keep redeploying at the edge of my shooting range. 
hell all the pistols now are unable to fly high and shoot due to a 9” range and the more than 9” landing zone. (Unless I misheard some ranges) 

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1 minute ago, Lord Panther said:

Now if only I can figure out a decent way to mount the Ironclad on a flying stand I'll be happy. I don't want to go down the plonking it on top of a ruin route as I always think they look like they are crashing.

I tried to build a wall that Brokk came crashing through a while back. Wire between the bricks flying outward, that sort of thing. Quickly became to fiddely for me but when I get round to my ironclad I’ll probably try it again. Might be something for you? 
how did you base the rest of you army? 

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53 minutes ago, Kramer said:

I tried to build a wall that Brokk came crashing through a while back. Wire between the bricks flying outward, that sort of thing. Quickly became to fiddely for me but when I get round to my ironclad I’ll probably try it again. Might be something for you? 
how did you base the rest of you army? 

image.png.4b28dcf4303032f8f23d77d4adbdbb8d.png

Here's how my frigate is based. It no longer stays on the flight stand though.

Everything else is on rocks.

image.png.ca571c86bb7fca53044a4332f92c9ce4.png

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2 hours ago, Gecktron said:

Im slowly starting to see some use in the new Arkanauts. +1 to-hit within 9" of an objective sounds interesting. 20 or so with a Khemist nearby should still be dangerous enough to defend against stuff slipping trough the frontline. Double pike, Hook and Volley gun could be useful for only 180 points. 

 

2 hours ago, Entombet said:

And the things that compensate 50% dmg drop on all infantry are?

Ships or skywardens are going to take on the character sniping duties.  KO players are obviously going to have to find new ways of using ArkCo. One initial suggestion maybe to try layered multiple smaller units of 10-20. The front couple of units get charged, but then the rest of the units open fire with all of their weapons being in range, rather than having effectively 3 weapons per 10 models in the old way of doing things. 620 points used to get you your 40 company and 1 khemist. 630 points now gets you 70 company. That's so much better for playing objectives and, if the screening works out, a lot more pistol and volley gun shots. Have fun experimenting.  

If anything I think endrinriggers are the losers in this book. Without the old khemist buff there doesn't seem to be much advantage over skywardens other than a bit of unreliable healing on ships.

48 minutes ago, Lord Panther said:

I'm just about to order Thundriks lot to give me a spare skywarden. Then I'm going to use the Endrinmaster and one of the Balloon Boys from my unused Start Collecting to custom build my own.

Now if only I can figure out a decent way to mount the Ironclad on a flying stand I'll be happy. I don't want to go down the plonking it on top of a ruin route as I always think they look like they are crashing.

Maybe make a sky-port docking station out of some 40k terrain? I've seen one online that was going through a custom built realmgate which looked awesome and suspended the ironclad (a lot of effort though!).

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So! Looking over the rules!

KO are weak. Sorry, they just are. They aren't particularly much stronger than they were under the old battletome. KO's offensive options all got slashed. And this wouldn't be a problem in a game where the power levels of other armies hadn't gone wildly out of control, but compared to 2/3 of the other armies out there, KO is just straight worse. How are KO going to deal with.... OBR? Or Slaanesh? Or Greenskins? Or DoK? Or CoS? Or StD? Or even moonclans? Can an ironclad one shot a keeper? Cause I bet you a keeper can one shot an ironclad. 

 

KO seem to be hanging roughly around the Sylvaneth, Mawtribes level. Which is disappointing for someone who the only players in town are hardcore competitive. Means I still won't be getting any AoS games in. But ME SBG is amazing still.

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5 minutes ago, Lord Panther said:

image.png.4b28dcf4303032f8f23d77d4adbdbb8d.png

Here's how my frigate is based. It no longer stays on the flight stand though.

Everything else is on rocks.

image.png.ca571c86bb7fca53044a4332f92c9ce4.png

Looking dope! 😍 ehm then maybe the frigate could be clipping the rocks? Chunks spraying forward to suggest speed? Hide the rod in there.

alternative ideas I had were an arkanauts/thunderer on a line or ladder that’s dragging on the ground to suggest them climbing up or down. You could hide a metal rod in there but it would require you to drill the painted model which always frightens me.

Another Concept would be two craters and a bomb dropping down mid air. And in one crate put a fight stand and hide it behind the cloud of dust. But other than spray painting wool in the colour of the base I wouldn’t know how to achieve that. 

6 minutes ago, Dr Ben said:

If anything I think endrinriggers are the losers in this book. Without the old khemist buff there doesn't seem to be much advantage over skywardens other than a bit of unreliable healing on ships

Super agree with your vision of it all. I’m already looking to find the old sky pikes I took off to rebuild them to skywardens. 
I will say though. 6 for battleline and with the new hero to heal a ironclad might be a thing. But that would need some play testing before I’d burn my hands on a judgement on that. 

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8 minutes ago, Kramer said:
18 minutes ago, Dr Ben said:

If anything I think endrinriggers are the losers in this book. Without the old khemist buff there doesn't seem to be much advantage over skywardens other than a bit of unreliable healing on ships

Super agree with your vision of it all. I’m already looking to find the old sky pikes I took off to rebuild them to skywardens. 
I will say though. 6 for battleline and with the new hero to heal a ironclad might be a thing. But that would need some play testing before I’d burn my hands on a judgement on that. 

Endrinriggers still enjoy advantage in damage and range in shooting, deal slightly more damage in melee (though with less attacks they are more swingy). And when you take into account champions, the difference in damage in melee is more pronounced (with more riggers advantage).

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11 minutes ago, Kramer said:

alternative ideas I had were an arkanauts/thunderer on a line or ladder that’s dragging on the ground to suggest them climbing up or down. You could hide a metal rod in there but it would require you to drill the painted model which always frightens me.

That's a cool idea. Maybe use the rest of Thundrik's Profiteers as a landing party.

 

23 minutes ago, Dr Ben said:

Maybe make a sky-port docking station out of some 40k terrain? I've seen one online that was going through a custom built realmgate which looked awesome and suspended the ironclad (a lot of effort though!).

I always thought the Ryza ruins would be good for that. They look a bit more dwarfish than the sector mechanicus ones.

 

image.png.9418d2aae7f076f938f34711051aee0b.png

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Question for any and all experienced Overlords — I’m thinking about getting into KOs when the new book drops. One thing I’ve been considering is replacing some of the rank-and-file minis’ helmeted heads with classic Dispossessed / Dwarf heads in order to give the army a less anonymous feel. 
 

Anyone have experience doing this? I’m not super familiar with the kits themselves, are the arkanaut / thunderer heads separate from the torsos? Might replace them with longbeard heads if it’s an easy swap.

Edited by eliminatorjr

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New realize has given me everything I wanted! My repair build is now hyper potent!

 

Endrinmaster with balloons 220

ironclad 510

gunhauler 150

5 x thunderers 120

30 x Endrinriggers w/ranged weapons 1000

2000 points

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18 minutes ago, eliminatorjr said:

Question for any and all experienced Overlords — I’m thinking about getting into KOs when the new book drops. One thing I’ve been considering is replacing some of the rank-and-file minis’ helmeted heads with classic Dispossessed / Dwarf heads in order to give the army a less anonymous feel. 
 

Anyone have experience doing this? I’m not super familiar with the kits themselves, are the arkanaut / thunderer heads separate from the torsos? Might replace them with longbeard heads if it’s an easy swap.

I've replaced my admirals head as well as a few arkanauts with a variety of dwarf heads. The thing to watch out for is the beards. The weapons and chests sometimes interfere. I've had OK luck with fyreslayer heads on arkanauts. I think it would be no dice on the thunderers due to the closed arm positions.

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58 minutes ago, eliminatorjr said:

Question for any and all experienced Overlords — I’m thinking about getting into KOs when the new book drops. One thing I’ve been considering is replacing some of the rank-and-file minis’ helmeted heads with classic Dispossessed / Dwarf heads in order to give the army a less anonymous feel. 
 

Anyone have experience doing this? I’m not super familiar with the kits themselves, are the arkanaut / thunderer heads separate from the torsos? Might replace them with longbeard heads if it’s an easy swap.

With older warrior kits, it is practically impossible, but I don’t have experience with newer ironbreaker kit

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I'm really hating the use of -1 to hit for enemy MODELS within 3 inches abilities.  Seems super fiddly. I'd rather pay a few more points for -1 to hit for enemy UNITS.

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3 hours ago, Gecktron said:

D6 shots 2 Damage on the frigats skycannon/flat 6 for Ironclads, 2 Damage on the carbines, stronger in close combat, more mobility, better saves, better protection from infantry with in, etc. 

List building should be based around our ships now.

Honestly I feel like gw decided that the way to get people to play ships is to make everything not a ship bad. Considering all the ways gw has been adding extra attacks, fighting twice, mortal wound recursions, and other thing that sort of break the game, the loss of those same mechanics in KO, that was already weak, feels kinda bad

 

an army of 10 gunhaulers isn’t particularly more compelling than like 100 arkanauts were 

 

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