AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion

[cofaxest]

23 minutes ago, Phasteon said:

Most of those changes would make sense, but the Arkanaut one is a bit too much. 

The model doesnt look like 2w or a 4+, same thing with Thunderers 3+, thats Ironbreakers with Shields.

+1w on Thunderers and Skyriggers will probably happen.

I‘m really more excited about the rule/gameplay changes than the profile changes (again, probably +1w on 32mm base models and 4+ save on all ships, rest will stay the same)

Who you would take to kill 240 goblins with 4+ against shooting?)

[Phasteon]

29 minutes ago, cofaxest said:

Who you would take to kill 240 goblins with 4+ against shooting?)

I cant tell you yet because I dont know the new rules. 

But I am pretty sure there will be ways. 

 

Maybe I misunderstood you and you wanted to say that grots also dont look like a 4+ save but a) its not their profile save and b) its JUST against shooting (which is kinda problematic for us at the moment but we shall see. At least we dont shoot them with - to hit like close combat units do)

 

tbh, I did not play my KO for over a year now (aside from 3-4 fungames) as they cant deal with most things reliably at the moment, which the new battletome will fix I am sure. 

Edited December 27, 2019 by Phasteon

[madmac]

I personally think Arkanauts should be made tougher in some way, partly because a 5+ save is the stuff of naked berserkers these days but more importantly because they are a silly unit in their current form.

They're clearly meant to be the KO frontline unit, leading the charge (or screening the ships/thunderers) in close combat with axe and pistol, ect. They can't do that in the slightest because they're all made of tissue paper and can't fight their way through a paper bag, so instead they get used as elite teams of 6-9 Skyhook snipers hiding in the back protected by their 20+ adoring fans.

Of all the KO infantry units, they do the worst job of matching their fluff and assigned role.  They're tiny models so I don't think 2W works for them, but if Freeguild Guard and Naked Beastman with a shield can have a 4+ I don't see why armored dwarfs can't.

[Phasteon]

But if they need to be „the allrounder unit“ they will need more than a 4+ save. But to be fair, 4+ Save/5+ Save doesnt matter, they are still gonna die, imo they need to kill whatever tries to kill them first. Thats how the whole army is supposed to work but atm it doesnt because you get 1 round of shooting with most of the units hitting or wounding on 4+, then you need a doubleturn or you are done because most of your shooting range (12-18) is in the enemies potential charge range. 

 

Arkanauts dont need better saves, they need better rules! 

Dont know if it wouldnt be too much but imagine them shooting at the beginning of the fight phase. Then even those 4+/4+ shots would hurt. 

Rules to let them fight twice (with improved combat profiles), retreat instead of fighting (which could be combined with the already existing fight last ability of the ships),basically ANYTHING to make the opponent worry about our army, other than 12 endrinriggers or 12 skyhooks to the face.

 

Edit: I’d happily pay 20-30% more points for our units if they perform well enough for their cost. 

I could totally live with 3-4 Heroes, 1 of each Ships, 3 Battlelines (more choice here please) and a support/elite unit. Fyreslayers work like that too now and they are so much fun to play. 

Edited December 27, 2019 by Phasteon

[cofaxest]

1 hour ago, Phasteon said:

I cant tell you yet because I dont know the new rules. 

But I am pretty sure there will be ways. 

 

Maybe I misunderstood you and you wanted to say that grots also dont look like a 4+ save but a) its not their profile save and b) its JUST against shooting (which is kinda problematic for us at the moment but we shall see. At least we dont shoot them with - to hit like close combat units do)

 

tbh, I did not play my KO for over a year now (aside from 3-4 fungames) as they cant deal with most things reliably at the moment, which the new battletome will fix I am sure. 

I just mean that KO need something to deal with horde army) 

And don't mind me wrong I'm not a huge fan of 4+ save or 2w arcanaut. But I'm sure that gw will not give them more damage so the only way how you can balance them - make them tougher.

[cofaxest]

52 minutes ago, Phasteon said:

But if they need to be „the allrounder unit“ they will need more than a 4+ save. But to be fair, 4+ Save/5+ Save doesnt matter, they are still gonna die, imo they need to kill whatever tries to kill them first. Thats how the whole army is supposed to work but atm it doesnt because you get 1 round of shooting with most of the units hitting or wounding on 4+, then you need a doubleturn or you are done because most of your shooting range (12-18) is in the enemies potential charge range. 

 

Arkanauts dont need better saves, they need better rules! 

Dont know if it wouldnt be too much but imagine them shooting at the beginning of the fight phase. Then even those 4+/4+ shots would hurt. 

Rules to let them fight twice (with improved combat profiles), retreat instead of fighting (which could be combined with the already existing fight last ability of the ships),basically ANYTHING to make the opponent worry about our army, other than 12 endrinriggers or 12 skyhooks to the face.

 

Edit: I’d happily pay 20-30% more points for our units if they perform well enough for their cost. 

I could totally live with 3-4 Heroes, 1 of each Ships, 3 Battlelines (more choice here please) and a support/elite unit. Fyreslayers work like that too now and they are so much fun to play. 

I think I'll agree. Maybe overwatch can be one of KO allegiance ability? So when our oponent decide to charge he will think twice knowing that our army will have second shooting phase. In that case thunderers ability to retreate will be more dangerous and our awful combat phase will be balanced.

[Luzgurbel]

I personally expect nothing, specially when we are release at the same than a Chaos army, and all we know the love they have in AoS...

[Phasteon]

10 minutes ago, Luzgurbel said:

I personally expect nothing, specially when we are release at the same than a Chaos army, and all we know the love they have in AoS...

Ironically KO have always been a counter to Tzeentch imo

[Luzgurbel]

Maybe before, but now we the new Archaon, I don't believe so.

[cofaxest]

2 minutes ago, Luzgurbel said:

Maybe before, but now we the new Archaon, I don't believe so.

You can kill him on turn one. Even now.

Edited December 27, 2019 by cofaxest

[Phasteon]

You can kill him in one turn AND he is worth even more points now, so technically there is less to worry about than before if he brings the big man. 

But then you get 9–10“ longbomb charged by a horde of angry marauders that kill your ships and 1–2 units in one phase and thats game then. 

 

Ah I am 100% sure this battletome will make KO one of the most exciting armies to play! It will be glorious 🍺 

[Entombet]

I cant wait for influx of "i always loved ko" players if the book will be good 😛

[5kaven5lave]

1 minute ago, Entombet said:

I cant wait for influx of "i always loved ko" players if the book will be good 😛

Yeah, you can sympathise with people who love the aesthetic but didn’t like the rules fiasco though. 

[mikethefish]

6 minutes ago, Entombet said:

I cant wait for influx of "i always loved ko" players if the book will be good 😛

I've played KO all through first.  The book might not be great, but I am interested to see what they do

[FatherTurin]

22 hours ago, cofaxest said:

I'm totally into it. And more so I would add 1 heavy aether rifle for each 5 model with +1 dmg on it.

And an ability to choose the profile of special weapon you use:

1) Decksweeper - 5 tohit rolls for each attack 4+/4+/-1/1 with reroll failed towound rolls

2) Mortar - d3 tohit rolls for each attack 4+/3+/-/d3 with dmg reroll if 10 or more models in targeted unit

3) Cannon - 1 tohit roll forneach attack 4+/2+/-2/3 with tohit reroll if on half range(or +1 tohit)

4) Fumigator - 2d3 hits for each attack 3+/3+/-2/1. If not used then it will give enemy models within 1' -1 to attack characteristic (with min of 1)

Honestly, I think that if they don’t just go for a combined profile, most of the special guns could be represented as abilities rather than weapon profiles:

Decksweeper: grant an overwatch ability

Fumigator: at start of combat phase, deal mortal wounds to an enemy within 3” on a 4+ or 3+

Morter: I don’t know, maybe make it like a signal flare and other KO units get +1 to hit whatever you shot

Cannon: either a separate weapon profile or unmodified 6’s to hit deal MWs (to represent the cannon shots hitting amid all the rifle shots).

[Phasteon]

56 minutes ago, Entombet said:

I cant wait for influx of "i always loved ko" players if the book will be good 😛

And I take it you always loved KO? 😉

I dont care who plays them and why, I just care about my personal experience with the army 🙂

[Entombet]

2 minutes ago, Phasteon said:

And I take it you always loved KO? 😉

I dont care who plays them and why, I just care about my personal experience with the army 🙂

Hehe KO not, i like dwarfs as whole, during my 25 years of playing i mostly played dwarfs, chaos dwarfs and started ko 6 month ago

[Phasteon]

I personally hope (just for entertainment/interest purposes) that the tome will be very competitive so we see more batreps on YT/ tournament (winning) reports of our favorite army. Thats something I always missed about the army sadly. 

[mikethefish]

38 minutes ago, Phasteon said:

I personally hope (just for entertainment/interest purposes) that the tome will be very competitive so we see more batreps on YT/ tournament (winning) reports of our favorite army. Thats something I always missed about the army sadly. 

Even right now, in our crappy state, we still have pretty hard answers to many of the current meta's boogymen.  Its not going to take much to get us into the competitive level

[Phasteon]

7 minutes ago, mikethefish said:

Even right now, in our crappy state, we still have pretty hard answers to many of the current meta's boogymen.  Its not going to take much to get us into the competitive level

Yeah if you bring 1 specific build that includes 12 endrinriggers and 40 arkanauts with skyhooks. 

I think most people, myself included, want ships loaded with smaller troop squads to carry the game, as it matches the background and artworks. 

 

[Beliman]

1 hour ago, FatherTurin said:

Honestly, I think that if they don’t just go for a combined profile, most of the special guns could be represented as abilities rather than weapon profiles:

Decksweeper: grant an overwatch ability

Fumigator: at start of combat phase, deal mortal wounds to an enemy within 3” on a 4+ or 3+

Morter: I don’t know, maybe make it like a signal flare and other KO units get +1 to hit whatever you shot

Cannon: either a separate weapon profile or unmodified 6’s to hit deal MWs (to represent the cannon shots hitting amid all the rifle shots).

I really hope to see something like this. Elegant, simple and awesome.

[Kramer]

59 minutes ago, Phasteon said:

 

I think most people, myself included, want ships loaded with smaller troop squads to carry the game, as it matches the background and artworks. 

 

I think most people are going to be very dissappointed if they both won't to be tournament winning AND have it be through prepercieved playstyle. 

And seeing some of the wishlists but that's another story 😂

For me, just give me some changes that challenge me to expand my collection and still have fun playing and i'm good. 

[The Cranky Dwarf]

Hey I'm unclear on something. I thought the save characteristic was a reflection of a combination of armor and dexterity in avoiding a blow. If the arkanauts are indeed as the lore portrays them the best troops the kharadron academys have to offer it makes sense that a mix of their training and armor would equal a 4 up. a retributor for example may have great armor but he is not dodging anything under all that weight.  also in a more practical sense these models are the best "anvil" non elite unit the army has access to. In a mechanical sense with the speed of most army's meaning combat is joined at round 2 if not 1 we need a more dependable anvil which a 4 up would help deliver.

Edited December 28, 2019 by The Cranky Dwarf
autocorrect

[Phasteon]

24 minutes ago, The Cranky Dwarf said:

Hey I'm unclear on something. I thought the save characteristic was a reflection of a combination of armor and dexterity in avoiding a blow. If the arkanauts are indeed as the lore portrays them the best troops the kharadron academys have to offer it makes sense that a mix of their training and armor would equal a 4 up. a retributor for example may have great armor but he is not dodging anything under all that weight.  also in a more practical sense these models are the best "anvil" non elite unit the army has access to. In a mechanical sense with the speed of most army's meaning combat is joined at round 2 if not 1 we need a more dependable anvil which a 4 up would help deliver.

I think you overestimate the value of a 4+ save alone. 

Even with a 4+ Saves Arkanauts wont survive against hard hitters, so you still gonna lose them. If you dont believe me think about how fast Thunderers die at the moment (hint: very fast)

Also its not good for the internal and external balance of armies if you just hand out 4+ saves to every single unit thats „well trained“ in the background (which is almost every unit as its a wargame after all). 

Go ahead and read the last pages where we already discussed some options Arkanauts could get instead of a save improvement. 

As I already said: special rules > profiles

[Entombet]

Nah best to offer would be thunderers and skyriggers, arkanauts are just regular grunt dwarfs which want to get some cash.