AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion

[5kaven5lave]

Anyone else going to try and wait for the FAQ to drop before they purchase any plastic?

[mikethefish]

On 12/25/2019 at 9:46 AM, Gdead909 said:

But this also means that units will be set with what comes in the box. Look at stormfiends and even ironjawz shields. So max weapons will be what’s in the box

I disagree with this premise.  Past products mean nothing.  After all, until a few months ago, everyone KNEW that each 2nd Ed army was ABSOLUTELY going to get new Endless Spells, and faction terrain.  Then we had Cities, Orruks, Mawtribes, etc.

Games Workshop creates warscroll/dataslate weapon options, based on how many boxes the customer is expected to buy.  Thunderers and Storm Fiends were altered because the average player is expected to buy 1-2 boxes or so.  This is not the same situation for Arkhanaughts - a battle line box that players are expected to purchase 3 boxes, minimum.  

I've said this multiple times - I don't believe that the Arkhanaught's weapons configuration will be changing in the slightest.

[Sactownbri]

23 minutes ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Anyone else going to try and wait for the FAQ to drop before they purchase any plastic?

No. I've already got a fried to split the box with and there isn't any reason to wait on the battletome and accessories. Having said that, if the community keys in on some broken combo then you can be assured to avoid investing in that build as it will be nerfed, as has been demonstrated multiple times by GW. So no reason to wait.

[Gdead909]

27 minutes ago, mikethefish said:

I disagree with this premise.  Past products mean nothing.  After all, until a few months ago, everyone KNEW that each 2nd Ed army was ABSOLUTELY going to get new Endless Spells, and faction terrain.  Then we had Cities, Orruks, Mawtribes, etc.

Games Workshop creates warscroll/dataslate weapon options, based on how many boxes the customer is expected to buy.  Thunderers and Storm Fiends were altered because the average player is expected to buy 1-2 boxes or so.  This is not the same situation for Arkhanaughts - a battle line box that players are expected to purchase 3 boxes, minimum.  

I've said this multiple times - I don't believe that the Arkhanaught's weapons configuration will be changing in the slightest.

I am just speaking about trends we have seen. GW could do “anything” but the trend has been to make warscrolls more streamline and to limit the weapons to just what’s available in one box. 

[Ashman]

Here's my thoughts on the update for what it's worth....

Everything I write here is based off the premise that the original battletome was an honest mistake by GW at the time which was reflective of where they wanted our faction to be - BUT we were simply too powerful in the early days of AOS 1.0.  Fast forward to today and things are VERY different - we now sit in a place where much of (but certainly not all) of what was nerfed can in many ways be brought back and the army can be reset to what it was originally intended to be - at least in original concept.  This would also explain why we (along with the once disgustingly overpowered Tzeech) are one of the last books to get updated.

The above combined with lore (which puts high value on skypikes) should work to make Skywardens (not Riggers) a battleline option.  I expect to see pikes also get ramped up a bit with Arkanauts.  The meta should be ready to see our shooting get boosted (especially from the ships) - I expect to see airships get more and/or more accurate shots.  I would also expect to see ways for Arkanauts to get more durability but not via a new warscroll but likely via things like a save after save via hero bubbles for example.  We might see the Thunderers become a battleline option as well and perhaps even split into two warscrolls (cheap battleline rifle version and higher point elite special weapon version).

There are other things that just didn't make sense that might get fixed - like bubbleboys being able to hitch with Gunhaulers or bumping up the troop capacity of the Frigate and Ironclad by double and one half respectively.  Also I expect to see "broken" skyports fixed into something that is actually desirable to play.

Once again this is all based on the premise that they just want to bring us back to what we were originally intended to be now that the meta is actually able to handle it without opposing players losing their minds like they did before.

That's my 2 cents...

 

[mikethefish]

1 hour ago, Gdead909 said:

I am just speaking about trends we have seen. GW could do “anything” but the trend has been to make warscrolls more streamline and to limit the weapons to just what’s available in one box. 

I gotcha - and you very well might be correct.  I'm just pointing out that we are talking about two different situations here.

[Phasteon]

My predictions are: 

– +1 wound on 32mm base dwarves (like Fyreslayers, take WH Underworlds for example, Arkanauts have 2 Wounds base, Thunderer and Skywarden 3 as Chosen Axes Fighters have)

– +1 Save on Frigate and Gunhauler, less likely on Ironclad (Toughness is shown in wounds characteristic, not save) and increasing the ships output (more carbine shots, being 3+ to wound, general accuracy increase, better melee (fragmentation charges being like degrading X attacks 4+/3+ –1 D3 damage or so))

– complete update on Thunderers weapons. (3+/3+ on Rifle, a weapon that deals mortal wounds etc) 

– complete update on Volleygun and Skypike to make them more viable (eg make Skypikes hit on 3+, maybe giving it a charge bonus)

– more command abilities / useful abilities on Heroes

– New Battalions ofc

– Skyports will make more impact (Barak Nar will be focused on Commanders, so more CP, tactical utility, Barak Zilfin will be focused on Ships so more/better endrinworks (ship traits) and a CA that increases Ship mobility/output)

– probably but not certainly a 1 per 10 restriction for each of the Arkanauts weapons to match the box content, making Arkanauts more versatile (as they imo should be), again changing those weapons to be more efficient

– Khemist buff giving +1A to ALL Weapons of the unit (to compensate for having mixed weapons and to buff a units melee AND shooting)

– points increases for everything except Arkanauts

[Kramer]

5 hours ago, Soolong said:

The new white dwarf? It is out now. My local asda had it , which was odd because they normally do not stock it.

They stole mine then  thanks I’ll ask around tomorrow then. 

[Rachmani]

Thinking about it, I‘m not sure whether I‘d like some stuff to become battleline period. I would like to avoid an eels situation.

What I WOULD like, though is options in the sense of „for every Admiral you can take one unit of Skywardens as Battleline“ (same with other characters & units). That would bring choice but not unconditionally

[Fert]

Staying power.... we need staying power.  Fire power is fine.

Better saves - ships counting as more than one model for objective purpose - combat avoidance/modifier mechanics (like the thunderers ability or maybe negative to hit bombs on charge). 

If they fixed that and left our fire power alone... gg.  We will see soon!!! Can't wait!!!

 

[The Cranky Dwarf]

I hope Brokk Gruggson does something this time. Lore wise and on the table. They went through all the effort to make a named character and then kinda just dropped him. Has he even show up in black library at all?

[Phasteon]

36 minutes ago, Fert said:

Staying power.... we need staying power.  Fire power is fine.

Better saves - ships counting as more than one model for objective purpose - combat avoidance/modifier mechanics (like the thunderers ability or maybe negative to hit bombs on charge). 

If they fixed that and left our fire power alone... gg.  We will see soon!!! Can't wait!!!

 

Yeah, they either make us a) shoot longer (staying power) or b) better (destroying the things that table us in one turn before they can reach us). 

Option a) would probably result in more fun for both sides. 

 

[stratigo]

8 hours ago, Reuben Parker said:

KO don’t really need new units, just for all the current units to be viable and it would be nice to have alternative battle line unlocked. 
 

3 ships

2 balloon units 

2 infantry units 

quite a few heroes is sufficient if they’re all good units. 
 

agree that sky ports will probably stay and maybe just with a set of additional army wide rules layered on top. 
 

I do think being fair to GW KO are a hard army to balance. It is a high damage output army focused on range that can also be very fast. 
 

I would like them to have a focus more on skirmish style warfare and positioning rather than just stacking sheer damage output. 

I don’t think skirmishing works in AoS. Everything is just too damn fast. Every army has the ability to trivially cover like 18 inches a turn, and those are the slow ones. 

[Soolong]

 

10 hours ago, Phasteon said:

 

– complete update on Thunderers weapons. (3+/3+ on Rifle, a weapon that deals mortal wounds etc) 

I can see thunderers having there unique weapons turned into 'are equipped with an assortment of weapons' and now having just the one gun profile. Same damage,less  jump through hoops to get to it. They did this with brutes and the thunderers profile is way worse.

[Rachmani]

That would be both reasonable & a shame. If only because the weapons look sooo different.

Would make sense, though.

[Kramer]

6 minutes ago, Rachmani said:

That would be both reasonable & a shame. If only because the weapons look sooo different.

Would make sense, though.

As long á the Warcry/skirmish version so get the different weapons I’m okay with it. But I agree a shame but still an improvement. 

personally I thought they might go the: ‘choose a shot type before shooting’ way. Representing the cannon stepping forward to kill the monster or the decksweeper to deal with hordes. 
 

Edit: which would also open up an easier to balance khemist. Allow multiple choices as he grants more aether power to the units. 

Edited December 27, 2019 by Kramer

[Phasteon]

1 hour ago, Soolong said:

 

I can see thunderers having there unique weapons turned into 'are equipped with an assortment of weapons' and now having just the one gun profile. Same damage,less  jump through hoops to get to it. They did this with brutes and the thunderers profile is way worse.

That would be awesome and solve so many problems at once! 

I‘d like that very much 👍🏻

Give them 18“ 2 Shots (4 for the Leader) 3+/3+ -1 1 Damage and they are fine

I think KO will have options to improve to hit/to wound anyways, like other armies, so i can imagine 20 buffed up Thunderers firing about 60 shots on 2+/2+ in the future (probably for about 400+ points) 

Edit; 

It would be so cool if they gave Thunderers weapons 2 profiles like the Namarti Reavers bows, 24“ 1 shot and 12“ 2-3 shots or sth like that

The more i think about it, would be also nice if Khemists would act like priests and do different buffs (on 2+/3+ 1 take a Mw) like

- +1 to wound

- +1 save

+ 1 attack

+1 rend / damage

 

Would give Urbaz a nice trait when they could use 2 buffs per Khemist instead of one

Edited December 27, 2019 by Phasteon

[Rachmani]

58 minutes ago, Kramer said:

As long á the Warcry/skirmish version so get the different weapons I’m okay with it. But I agree a shame but still an improvement. 

personally I thought they might go the: ‘choose a shot type before shooting’ way. Representing the cannon stepping forward to kill the monster or the decksweeper to deal with hordes. 
 

Edit: which would also open up an easier to balance khemist. Allow multiple choices as he grants more aether power to the units. 

That sounds reasonable. Switching would be a good bandaid fix the different weapons displayed.

ofc. You could just rename them to something like „Aether-Arsenal“ and give them one - or two weapon profiles.

[cofaxest]

I hope that with new book we will get:

4+ save on arcanauts or +1w

3+ save on thunderers and +1w

+1w to flying dwarfs 

4+ save for gunhawlers and 3+save for behemoth ships

Overwatch ability for thunderers with drillbill

Command ship general option for behemoth ships 

More battleline options (gunhawlers/frigates if you take command ship as your general, wardens/thunderers if you play as full KO, riggers if you take endrinmaster as your general)

More things that can be done by chemist, navigator, endrinmaster and admiral.

Better carbines and better mainguns for the ships

Gyrobomber "bombing run" ability

MW after charge with the ship

Each behemoth ship should be count as 10 model for the porpoise of scoring

Better countercharge mechanics.

Edited December 27, 2019 by cofaxest

[GeneralZero]

You can reasonably count on several things like this, the question is which ones? We'll know in about couple of weeks (3 or 4 top)

[Gdead909]

15 hours ago, Rachmani said:

Thinking about it, I‘m not sure whether I‘d like some stuff to become battleline period. I would like to avoid an eels situation.

What I WOULD like, though is options in the sense of „for every Admiral you can take one unit of Skywardens as Battleline“ (same with other characters & units). That would bring choice but not unconditionally

So there are no battleline in that box which makes me think that the hero will make skywardens battleline 

[cofaxest]

6 hours ago, Soolong said:

 

I can see thunderers having there unique weapons turned into 'are equipped with an assortment of weapons' and now having just the one gun profile. Same damage,less  jump through hoops to get to it. They did this with brutes and the thunderers profile is way worse.

I'm totally into it. And more so I would add 1 heavy aether rifle for each 5 model with +1 dmg on it.

And an ability to choose the profile of special weapon you use:

1) Decksweeper - 5 tohit rolls for each attack 4+/4+/-1/1 with reroll failed towound rolls

2) Mortar - d3 tohit rolls for each attack 4+/3+/-/d3 with dmg reroll if 10 or more models in targeted unit

3) Cannon - 1 tohit roll forneach attack 4+/2+/-2/3 with tohit reroll if on half range(or +1 tohit)

4) Fumigator - 2d3 hits for each attack 3+/3+/-2/1. If not used then it will give enemy models within 1' -1 to attack characteristic (with min of 1)

[ledha]

1 hour ago, cofaxest said:

I hope that with new book we will get:

 

I like most of your changes, but arkanauts having the same save as a stormcast paladin or a chaos knight doesn't make any sense

[cofaxest]

22 minutes ago, ledha said:

I like most of your changes, but arkanauts having the same save as a stormcast paladin or a chaos knight doesn't make any sense

Probably you are right. That's why it is 4+ save OR +1w)

Edited December 27, 2019 by cofaxest

[Phasteon]

1 hour ago, cofaxest said:

I hope that with new book we will get:

4+ save on arcanauts or +1w

3+ save on thunderers and +1w

+1w to flying dwarfs 

4+ save for gunhawlers and 3+save for behemoth ships

Overwatch ability for thunderers with drillbill

Command ship general option for behemoth ships 

More battleline options (gunhawlers/frigates if you take command ship as your general, wardens/thunderers if you play as full KO, riggers if you take endrinmaster as your general)

More things that can be done by chemist, navigator, endrinmaster and admiral.

Better carbines and better mainguns for the ships

Gyrobomber "bombing run" ability

MW after charge with the ship

Each behemoth ship should be count as 10 model for the porpoise of scoring

Better countercharge mechanics.

Most of those changes would make sense, but the Arkanaut one is a bit too much. 

The model doesnt look like 2w or a 4+, same thing with Thunderers 3+, thats Ironbreakers with Shields.

+1w on Thunderers and Skyriggers will probably happen.

I‘m really more excited about the rule/gameplay changes than the profile changes (again, probably +1w on 32mm base models and 4+ save on all ships, rest will stay the same)