AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion

[Kramer]

This thread made me rethink my list. How would an all dwarf force come togeher? With a lot of barteringand grumbling of course. So a neutral party is needed... and that's where the list post turned into a page long backstory. Which I might post later, but the list inspires my narrative drive immensely. Summary of the story is:

Spoiler

A warden King has goal in mind for which he needs the skill of both the Fyreslayers magma manipulations and the flight of the KO. The negotiations, naturally, get stuck with three lords around the table. A runelord is there to keep track of the negotiations. In the end a Agent of sigmar (darkling sorceres) is send to guide the negotiations and join them in their quest to manage the devision of the inevitable gain. Part of the outcome is that all lords can only bring a single retinue and the warden king is responsible for a retinue for the sorceress. Thats the inspiration. But writing the backstory was great fun as the inspiration came way faster than i could type. 

The list: 

Warden King - General - Seerstone Amulet
Runelord - Adjudant
Sorceress - Aura of Glory (+1 attack for every unit wholly within 12")
Brokk Grungsson
Runesmiter (on foot)

30 Hammerers - retinue
30 Ironbreakers
10 Longbeards
6 Endrinriggers
10 Grimwrath Bezerkers

That leaves me 70 points. My thoughts:
Command point and 20 points left (potentially upgrading the longbeards to Irondrakes)
A Gyrocopter for late game objective grabbing
Any other suggestions?

The strengths I like to play to in this list are:
Runesmiter plus bezerkers allows me to threaten an objective turn one. The +1 save first turn makes them even harder to shift. 
Brokk with Endrinriggers have the Tempest's eye keyword gain the +1 save and extra move so can alpha strike pretty readily. (add his command ability for run and charge) But I'd rather hold them back and let my opponent worry about them moving over him in later turns. 
Ironbreakers and Hammerers move up and can be helped by sorceress (+1 attack, or -1 opponents, spells), Warden King (+1 attack command ability), Runelord (6+ ward or -1 Rend, Prayers)
Longbeards (or Ironbreakers if need be) will defend my backline objectives. 

All thoughts are welcome!

EDIT: especially on the longbeards. Is there something that would be a better backline defender? Bit more mobile. 

Edited October 16, 2019 by Kramer

[WatcherintheWater]

Looks like a cool list!

A couple ideas if you want to make it more "competitive" or for what you could do with your extra points

• Replace the 6 Riggers with 9 Wardens. Without the Khemist buff a Warden is basically equal to a Rigger, and it would fit your points nicely. I know you have the +1A from the Sorceress, but there is a chance her spell fails, or she is out of range. Even if you get the +1A, 9 Wardens should have similar output to 6 Riggers, and can soak up a few more wounds
• Replace Brokk with a Khemist & 3 more Riggers (including 2 or 3 with Grappnels). Chance at getting 3 attacks per Rigger, which is brutal, and the Grappnels probably give you as good movment as Brokks command, without costing the CP, in addition to some extra wounds.
• I'm not sure Brokk is work 240 points in this list generally. The only time where he adds a lot of value is if you want to alpha strike, but even then you can make it without any help if deployment is 18", and if you are doing more of a Beta strike, you probably don't need him either. He could be useful for helping get onto objectives in your opponent's deployment zone late in the game, but Grappnel's give you much more range for that. That said, he is really cool!
• I like the 10 man Longbeard unit for it's grumbling ability

Just my thoughts.

[Kramer]

8 hours ago, WatcherintheWater said:

Looks like a cool list!

A couple ideas if you want to make it more "competitive" or for what you could do with your extra points

• Replace the 6 Riggers with 9 Wardens. Without the Khemist buff a Warden is basically equal to a Rigger, and it would fit your points nicely. I know you have the +1A from the Sorceress, but there is a chance her spell fails, or she is out of range. Even if you get the +1A, 9 Wardens should have similar output to 6 Riggers, and can soak up a few more wounds
• Replace Brokk with a Khemist & 3 more Riggers (including 2 or 3 with Grappnels). Chance at getting 3 attacks per Rigger, which is brutal, and the Grappnels probably give you as good movment as Brokks command, without costing the CP, in addition to some extra wounds.
• I'm not sure Brokk is work 240 points in this list generally. The only time where he adds a lot of value is if you want to alpha strike, but even then you can make it without any help if deployment is 18", and if you are doing more of a Beta strike, you probably don't need him either. He could be useful for helping get onto objectives in your opponent's deployment zone late in the game, but Grappnel's give you much more range for that. That said, he is really cool!
• I like the 10 man Longbeard unit for it's grumbling ability

Just my thoughts.

Thanks for the feedback.

firsr point absolutely right! Keep forgetting their points reduction. And makes more narrative sense. I would need three more skywardens though. So that thought is going to bounce around in my head when I pick up an order at the GW store today 😂

On Brokk we differ a bit but that’s fine. For me his shooting is decent, so that he adds something even if I hold them back a turn.  His combat damage is good and usually survives a round of combat.  his command ability is very useful for the goals I gave in mind for the ‘flying brigade’.  But more importantly he can keep up with the riggers/skywardens. All out attack, re-roll charges, all out defence all can be so valuable. But it needs the hero nearby. But I don’t play in the hardest group. I can see how in very competitive games you can’t hold him back for fear of long range mortal wounds taking him out. 

yeah the grumbling is nice. The extra dispel is a fun change to. I can just imagine mage hearings such an endless barrage of negativity he just gives up, breaks down and has a nice cry for the turn 😂
 

[sal4m4nd3r]

Got beat up pretty bad by my buds sylvaneth for the first game. Its a tough army to learn against but I dont mind! The incantor and the comet were so clutch though. Stopped him from making a full kurnoth hunter, then dropped the comet right around his wizard enclave and decimated them. Forced him to move.. except for the general on the balewind which had to either dispel it or keep taking damage. Was super good. Loved the big block of riggers with brokk as an alpha strike. But I also understand I wont have the choice to go first a lot of the time. If I hadnt whiffed HARD the riggers would have crippled his 6 sword kurnoth hunters. 

Any opinions on if a Mhornar Iron Sky Squadron is competitive? Perhaps with a Lord ordinator?  The list I wanted to run 30/30/10 arkanuats, 2 frigates, 9 riggers, 2 khemist is over by 10 lousy points!!!!!!

Edited October 17, 2019 by sal4m4nd3r

[WatcherintheWater]

@sal4m4nd3r I hate it when a list comes in just over! The easiest thing to do would be to just drop the arkanauts to 40/10/10, and then add 3 Skywardens with a shooting loadout. They can deploy in a Frigate, keeping your drops low, and just fly around claiming objectives and shooting. Or you could add 5 Thunderers instead of the wardens (although I like the wardens better). Just have to make sure to use your frigates and smaller arkanaut units to keep the big blob safe. If a good unit gets into them those 480 points can disappear real fast. The other option would be to go 30/10/10 and add another Frigate, but I don't think that would be as strong.

I've never used the Iron Sky Squadron, so take my advice with a grain of salt.

[Beliman]

I was talking with some friends about "new possible units" and we all agreed that  fyreslayers can be expanded with little  to no effort (chariots, avatars of grimnir, lava-monsters, armored dudes, shielded dudes, etc...) . But how this can be translated to Kharadrons Overlords? What type of units do want you to see?
Some examples:

• Monster-hunter hero: We are used to hunt a lot of flying monsters, why not have someone to lead this expeditions?
• Smuggler units/hero:  All Kharadrons are part smuggler, part Kharadron (it's in their nature!!!). But maybe something that just goes "all in" in that concept? Maybe giving the "skyfarer" keyword to allies? Maybe just a melee unit to beat them?
• "Conquistador" hero: A bit tricky, but it could work. Maybe a melee hero? Maybe a duelist? It could be fun to have an ability to spoil the terrain to find new artefacts or just take victory points fi the enemy lose some models because a battleshock phase.
• Raiders: We wrote the Code because we had some...trouble between our own civilization. Maybe that "trouble" is still there in another unit form. Maybe a melee unit with innate buffs to jump and charge from our ships?
• Slaves/Mercenaries: i know, it's crazy. But we are Flying Steampunk Pirate/Merchant Dwarfs!!! The possiblity to have some Ogres working with us (Maneater style, but being part of our army!!). Just try to visualize  Captain Duardin near a First Mate Ogor. Maybe it's my Chaos Dwarf part that it's still there...
• More ships!!! But I'm not sure what kind of ship we need...
• Specialist teams: Something like skaven teams? We have A LOT of weapons, but it's really boring to roll a dice for every one (I mean...5 grundstok thunderers with all their unique weapons). Maybe a unit that it's just one weapon? Btw, we have something close with our 3man arkanauts, but the rules forces 7 other dudes to run around them.

[mikethefish]

Speaking for myself, I think we are in a good spot, in regards to units/options.  What I personally would love to see is...

A new Battleline unit that leans more towards melee 

The truly unique thing about KO is their troop transport abilities.  No other army in the game does this.  I would love to see a large "personnel carrier" type of ship.  Something the size of an Ironclad, but an under-powered gun load (maybe Frigate level).  In exchange, it would either carry more troops (like 30 or so), or it would have a cool dropship type rule, where units could deploy after the ship has moved.

[WatcherintheWater]

I agree. Feels like were are generally in a good spot, but more opportunities for battle line would be great. They could also do that with making some existing units battleline if. I really like the idea of having a way to make some ships battleline. If we are wishlisting though, here's what I'd like:

• Some sort of combat battleline unit. They could be called Arkanaut Marines or something like that and have advantages when disembarking from a ship. Maybe +1 attack or re-rolls to hit if they charge in the same turn that they disembark.
• A pure combat hero would be fun. Maybe a a guy in a mechanized suit or something like that.
• A huge aircraft carrier ship. Don't know how this would practically work in normal size games, but it could be a super cool model.
• Weapons teams sound pretty cool, too.

[cofaxest]

On 10/30/2019 at 7:05 PM, Beliman said:

I was talking with some friends about "new possible units" and we all agreed that  fyreslayers can be expanded with little  to no effort (chariots, avatars of grimnir, lava-monsters, armored dudes, shielded dudes, etc...) . But how this can be translated to Kharadrons Overlords? What type of units do want you to see?
Some examples:

• Monster-hunter hero: We are used to hunt a lot of flying monsters, why not have someone to lead this expeditions?
• Smuggler units/hero:  All Kharadrons are part smuggler, part Kharadron (it's in their nature!!!). But maybe something that just goes "all in" in that concept? Maybe giving the "skyfarer" keyword to allies? Maybe just a melee unit to beat them?
• "Conquistador" hero: A bit tricky, but it could work. Maybe a melee hero? Maybe a duelist? It could be fun to have an ability to spoil the terrain to find new artefacts or just take victory points fi the enemy lose some models because a battleshock phase.
• Raiders: We wrote the Code because we had some...trouble between our own civilization. Maybe that "trouble" is still there in another unit form. Maybe a melee unit with innate buffs to jump and charge from our ships?
• Slaves/Mercenaries: i know, it's crazy. But we are Flying Steampunk Pirate/Merchant Dwarfs!!! The possiblity to have some Ogres working with us (Maneater style, but being part of our army!!). Just try to visualize  Captain Duardin near a First Mate Ogor. Maybe it's my Chaos Dwarf part that it's still there...
• More ships!!! But I'm not sure what kind of ship we need...
• Specialist teams: Something like skaven teams? We have A LOT of weapons, but it's really boring to roll a dice for every one (I mean...5 grundstok thunderers with all their unique weapons). Maybe a unit that it's just one weapon? Btw, we have something close with our 3man arkanauts, but the rules forces 7 other dudes to run around them.

1) Grundstock hero -  hunter for heroes/monsters
2) Separate Arcanaut unit based on weapon equiped (skyhook - hunters, volleyguns - supressors, skypikes - breachers)
3) Big aether charged costumes (maybe even behemoth size)
4) Floating garrisoned outpost
5) Floating heroes
6) Ogor mercs with Aether powered armour and melee weapon
7) Grundstock battleship (can't transport units, but have a good damage potential)

Edited November 3, 2019 by cofaxest

[Nick907]

I want to see a flamethrower unit that works like the gyrocopter steam gun, one attack for every enemy model within 3". This way we'd have a melee unit that only used short range shooting and gunbutt attacks. It would be awesome!

[Grunaldi]

What if we put a Endrinrigger inside of a Endrinrigger ?

 

[Nick907]

Also any means to make a ship into a hero/general would be really cool. 

[Rahxephon]

Ive had some ideas for new units and had also been wanting a close range ship. 

Id always liked gyrocopters/bombers as they were the original flying dwarves but couldn't see a spot for them in a KO army.

With cities of sigmar, gyrocopters look way better. Steam guns have gotten +2 range which is massive as now you'll be getting a truckload of shots and +2 movement to help get over units to drop bombs. Bombs are also 2+ to go off rather than 4+ and they now have unit discounts of 60pts over the pervious costings.

Still dont see a place for gyrobombers, only used copters once but I only got to fly over units once before getting tangled up.

Ill need to pick up more, some trios of those could really put a big punch into hordes, or even monsters with a reliable 3d3 mortal wounds

Edited November 3, 2019 by Rahxephon

[Nick907]

I think the strength to the bombers is to run them as units of one and retreat from combats you survive. Try to get off a couple few bombs and split up your opponent's attention. I like to think of them as the Duardin equivalent to a cheap spell caster.

[Boar]

Some flying (skywarden) hero would be nice, besides that I have got no idea. Though what sometimes I need is some cheap filler for my last 70-80 pts, but can`t think of anything that would fit KO. Except maybe some sort of semi-autonomous drone (aether endrins with attached explosives?).

Besides that what I hope for are changes to warscrolls to better fit look/lore ie. more resilient ships and skywardens really being sky-commandos that do hit and run raids.

[Entombet]

Dont dream they will give us more units, best we get is gunhauler as second battleline.

[Beliman]

9 minutes ago, Entombet said:

Dont dream they will give us more units, best we get is gunhauler as second battleline

If you read my post, I wasn't talking about what I want.

I was talking about the theme of "new possible units".

We need some melee battleline units, so more arkanauts with bigger swords? Why not "arkanaut corsairs" ala scourge privateers? It fits better than the same. New hero? What kind of theme would you like to see and why?

In other words, something to chat without repeating that we are doomed and all the usual doom that follows this type of chatting...

 

[Entombet]

Yeah i would like new units like some suit powered CC unit or some automatons. But beeing realistic best we get is terrain and some endless.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Entombet

[Beliman]

27 minutes ago, Entombet said:

Yeah i would live new units like some suit powered CC unit or some automatons. But beeing realistic best we get is terrain and some endless.

Or nothing. Nobody knows and we don't even have any hint about a possible new battletome... so it's up to you to believe whatever you want. 

So, again, what do you want to see? Automatons? Exo-suits? So, more mechanized aesthetics?

Edited November 6, 2019 by Beliman

[Entombet]

Well i'm my opiniom we are most advanced race in terms of technology, i would love to see some hostile environment suits or automatons. Practicly speaking we are AoS version of squats.

[Dekison]

2 hours ago, Beliman said:

If you read my post, I wasn't talking about what I want.

I was talking about the theme of "new possible units".

We need some melee battleline units, so more arkanauts with bigger swords? Why not "arkanaut corsairs" ala scourge privateers? It fits better than the same. New hero? What kind of theme would you like to see and why?

In other words, something to chat without repeating that we are doomed and all the usual doom that follows this type of chatting...

 

I’m with you here - I don’t get how a technological focuses race doesn’t have more troops 

literally just steal ideas from any steampunk and use it. 

 

[Bombort]

In my opinion, the units we have are all we need. For me it is more a problem of rules. I can't imagine, why any rule designer could look at a Skyvessel and think "hm, looks squishy. Lets give them a 5+ Save". If some things like this would be fixed, i would be perfectly fine.

Maybe a new hero like an accountant or merchant for the expeditions. Someone who looks over the profits.

Rulewise maybe something like a warchanter of the ironjawz. More a support-Hero.

[Aeryenn]

Funny or tragic thing is I have close to 2k points of Kharadron Overlords still in boxes. Not because I lost interest or sth. From the reveal day I knew it will be my favourite or at least in top 3  just because of glorious design. They are still in boxes because I expect them to get a full rework in terms of rules. Many units have weapon choices and thus I feel it's too risky to build them now when after a new battletome roles of some units may completely differ from what they do now. Hope it's not just point reduction. Skyvessels should be fearsome war machines that your opponent will treat with respect. Spamming them at 100p reduction is not the way when a bunch of peasents can destroy them. I'd rather keep them high with their cost but give them strength of Durthu/Cabbage/Bloodthirster.

In terms of unit expansions it's easy - ground forces. Mechs, tanks.

Edited November 7, 2019 by Aryann

[Rahxephon]

Its a bit of effort but I'd give magnetising a shot. Might solve that, magnetising all the options is doable.

Im pretty happy with the troop options but wouldnt mind another small ship variant.

I sorta like the idea of just having arkanaut companies as the core unit, they just need to be able to do their different roles a bit better and not rely only on skyhooks.

[Turin Turambar]

1 hour ago, Aryann said:

In terms of unit expansions it's easy - ground forces. Mechs, tanks.

why would sky pirates and traders have tanks?