AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion

[SireScott]

Hi all,

Quick question what was the nerf that occurred to the 'Clown Car' build. I've looked at the book and FAQ, and with cheaper ships and Thunderers it sounds like its get potential, so i wanted to check if ive missed something.

[stratigo]

28 minutes ago, nine7six said:

I personally dont' think any of the battlions are worth it, Rob made a comment on the Honest Wargamer that made me think, if you can't participate in the activation wars then why bother? sooo with that in mind i'm not running endrinriggers, it would be ****** to charge them but you always attack last.

Instead i'm going full shooting and choosing Barak Nar over Zilfin, this way my army can focus on 3 things, shooting, unbinding and movement and with new point reductions you can fit 15 thunderers, 30 arknaughts and 12 skywardens (with drill canons) and 2 khemists giving the army a triple threat. Make that opponent decide which of the shooting units is more a threat. Having all the heroes being able to unbind and with a +1 is nice...

 

 

Endrinriggers are indeed horseshit if they are forced to attack last, which is increasingly being a thing in a very frustrating way in the same way every army was getting negatives to hit after while, but it isn’t the most common thing, and you usually get the activation advantage in the turn you charge and most thing thusly die

[Reuben Parker]

4 hours ago, WatcherintheWater said:Cool list @Reuben Parker. I agree that Zilfin could be really good with that many ships.

Where does the damage output come from? Sometimes it feels tough to find enough damage  without Endrinriggers or big Arkanaut units buffed by a Khemist.

Yeah damage output is the big issue with escort wing its more a slow chip away and feed opponent small units style. I think with new points can do a arkanauts fire base with khemsit probably even 30 man if dropping one of the Skywardens units. So that should hopefully provide the needed punch whilst the escort wing keeps them safe and grabs objectives.

 

 

[WatcherintheWater]

5 hours ago, SireScott said:

Hi all,

Quick question what was the nerf that occurred to the 'Clown Car' build. I've looked at the book and FAQ, and with cheaper ships and Thunderers it sounds like its get potential, so i wanted to check if ive missed something.

There were a couple things. First was that GW changed the Thunderers warscroll a couple months after the book launched. They made it so you only got 1 of each special weapon per 5 models, which limited what the Khemist buff could do. No more buffed up units all with Aethercannons piling out of the boat and obliterating units.

Then when AoS 2 dropped they put in two other changes: Disembarking now happens at the start of the hero phase, so you can't use the Barak Zilfin hero phase movement footnote and then still get out out the boat. Slightly less important, but now Endrinrigger's Grapnels also don't let them fly over enemy units, so people can screen out anything they really don't want you to get to.

All that said, there are still viable Clown Car builds, which can do well.  You just don't see them finishing Top 3 in tournaments anymore.

[Reuben Parker]

Just building on clown car obviously new points helps it. 

Plus the Zilfin teleport then disembark still works. 

I always advocate going MSU instead of big unit and khemist now the way the sarge gets extra shots and it allows you to just block people with 5 models at a time for cheap sacrifices also gave lots of separate mortal wounds vs charges if they contact multiple units.

ironclad 

5x5 thunderers 

in new points will clock in at 830 (90 points cheaper)

if you really wanted to double down you could drop 1 unit add 12 Skywardens and a khemist to boost drill cannons 

ironclad 

4x5 thunderers 

khemist 

12 Skywardens 

1280 on the clown car with that loadout and 180 cheaper than now!

20/10/10 ark

2nd khemist 

100 points spare either a 3 man warden unit for screening and objectives or could do a 4 man thunderer unit also in the ironclad.

Or something I was looking at before and new points makes a lot better is a triple frigate iron sky squadron with min arkanaut and heroes all full of MSU thunderers and again new points means a lot more fit in whilst still being a one drop army.

2 navigator 

3x10 ark

3 frigate 

iron sky battalion 

8x5 thunderer 

need to see finalized battalion points but based on old point for the battalion this list is 1970

 

[Requizen]

23 hours ago, nine7six said:

I personally dont' think any of the battlions are worth it, Rob made a comment on the Honest Wargamer that made me think, if you can't participate in the activation wars then why bother? sooo with that in mind i'm not running endrinriggers, it would be ****** to charge them but you always attack last.

Instead i'm going full shooting and choosing Barak Nar over Zilfin, this way my army can focus on 3 things, shooting, unbinding and movement and with new point reductions you can fit 15 thunderers, 30 arknaughts and 12 skywardens (with drill canons) and 2 khemists giving the army a triple threat. Make that opponent decide which of the shooting units is more a threat. Having all the heroes being able to unbind and with a +1 is nice...

It is bad when forced to fight last, but in armies that have such mechanics it isn't ubiquitous, other than Turn 3 Idoneth. Gristlegore is only on the one Hero, and you'll shoot him. Slaanesh is only when Heroes do the Locus, and maybe some other mechanics, but overall you should not necessarily be charging combat Heroes who can force you to go last. Gitz have the spell, but that should be able to be shot or outranged, depending on situation.

If more and more come out, I might agree, but the things that do activation wars right now can be dodged or shot before they can do their things

[Cauthon]

Requizen I think you might be underselling the slaaneshi ability to play the activation wars. 

My regular opponent plays Slaanesh. That book seems to really support a hero heavy play style and it’s any hero, and the end of any charge phase, that hands out always strikes last. Keeper of secrets on a 2+, everything else on a 4++. If you have three units near a keeper of secrets, he gets 3 rolls to try and make everything ASL. 

Just shoot out the keeper yeah but my bud runs 2 and by the time I’ve killed one he’s always pumped to summon it right back in. 

Anyway my point was that if he is scared of a unit he can just about guarantee an ASL on it. Slaanesh is stupid good to me so there’s that but that’s another convo.

If someone thinks always strikes last invalidates endrinriggers melee, better have a different list ready if you might be playing against Slaanesh. 

 

Does nobody like the aetherstrike force? I know it isn’t so much fun to have to rely on other factions but it’s seems pretty powerful to me (if that’s what your into). 

Just being able to shoot a star fated arrow every turn is super amazing to me. Then getting +1 to hit whatever you shot at for the rest of the game is pretty sweet. 

 

Getting to shoot with a unit in the hero phase? Pretty badass! 

Max unit of endrinriggers with a khemist buff shooting in hero phase AND shooting phase seems great to me. 

 

3 units of prosecutors is a small chunk of points but isnt exactly a tax. Would they count as your battline? If so that’s a done deal to me. 

[Poryague]

1 hour ago, Cauthon said:

My regular opponent plays Slaanesh. That book seems to really support a hero heavy play style and it’s any hero, and the end of any charge phase, that hands out always strikes last. Keeper of secrets on a 2+, everything else on a 4++. If you have three units near a keeper of secrets, he gets 3 rolls to try and make everything ASL. 

As a slaanesh player this is not right each hero gets to attempt locus of diversion 1 time. Also a unit cannot be targeted by it more then once. The epitome can hit all units withen 6inches with a similar ability called horrible facinations at the start of the combat phase on a 4+. 

[Cauthon]

Thanks for the correction. I’ll ask my bud how he’s been using it. 

We don’t get a ton of games. 

[Cauthon]

Ok so prosecutors arnt battline at all. 

 

I cant quite squeeze a strikeforce into 2k. The way I want it anyway. 

 

So with a khemist, a navigator and Venator. 

Obligatory arkos.

The minimum strike force with one max unit of skywardens. 

By my count I have 150 points left and I need that to get to 200 for a frigate to hide in. 

I feel the khemist is necessary to get the most out of getting a unit to shoot twice a turn (while under his buff)  

i feel the navigator is necessary because I’ll be darned before I take a battalion and not have a character to put the second relic on  

Need something else to get cheaper. 

Also I’d prefer the max unit to be endrinriggers but points. 

 

If I couldn’t get it to work I guess I’d have to try it without the frigate. I’d have no idea how to play kharadron or make a list without at least one boat (gunhauler doesn’t count). Don’t think I’d want to really.

 

I guess I’d go full sell out and ally in some more ranged stormcast with that 150 points, just for the sake of finishing a list.

A balista and maxing out my endrinriggers instead of skywardens puts me 10 points over I believe. 

[Reuben Parker]

6 hours ago, Cauthon said:

Ok so prosecutors arnt battline at all. 

 

I cant quite squeeze a strikeforce into 2k. The way I want it anyway. 

 

So with a khemist, a navigator and Venator. 

Obligatory arkos.

The minimum strike force with one max unit of skywardens. 

By my count I have 150 points left and I need that to get to 200 for a frigate to hide in. 

I feel the khemist is necessary to get the most out of getting a unit to shoot twice a turn (while under his buff)  

i feel the navigator is necessary because I’ll be darned before I take a battalion and not have a character to put the second relic on  

Need something else to get cheaper. 

Also I’d prefer the max unit to be endrinriggers but points. 

 

If I couldn’t get it to work I guess I’d have to try it without the frigate. I’d have no idea how to play kharadron or make a list without at least one boat (gunhauler doesn’t count). Don’t think I’d want to really.

 

I guess I’d go full sell out and ally in some more ranged stormcast with that 150 points, just for the sake of finishing a list.

A balista and maxing out my endrinriggers instead of skywardens puts me 10 points over I believe. 

To be fair we don’t Know if the battalion will maybe itself get cheaper. The leak I saw was missing some KO stuff. 

Also prosecutors are down to 90 in the SCE leak. 

I have looked at it before as it’s a tempting battalion (16 drill cannons in one turn from one unit). 

Also I don’t believe you get to shoot the star fated arrow every turn the battalion doesn’t override the once per game as far as I’m aware.  

[Cauthon]

Hmmn. 

 

It says you can shoot star fated arrow “in any of your hero phases” doesn’t say one time only but doesn’t explicitly say it gets around the once per game restriction from dudes warscroll.

 

Anybody know 100%? Pretty huge difference. 

[Iron Fist]

Allegiance: Kharadron Overlords

Skyport: Barak-Mhornar
 

Leaders

Aetheric Navigator (80) général
Aether-Khemist (140)
Lord-Ordinator (140)

Battleline
40 x Arkanaut Company (480)
10 x Arkanaut Company (120)
10 x Arkanaut Company (120)

Units
5 x Grundstok Thunderers (90)
5 x Grundstok Thunderers (90)

War Machines
Arkanaut Frigate (200)
Arkanaut Frigate (200)
Arkanaut Frigate (200)

Battalions
Iron Sky Squadron (130)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 127

 

2 drops

 

2 big threats :

 

Aetheric Navigator  général

Lord-Ordinator

Arkanaut Frigate
Arkanaut Frigate
Arkanaut Frigate

Aether-Khemist

40 x Arkanaut Company

The rest is there to screen or for objectives

 

 

 

[Reuben Parker]

That list looks nice the 2 shot cannons turn one with the ordinator will actually make the ships do a reasonable punch. Then the 40 ark blob does it’s work   

[Kramer]

16 hours ago, Iron Fist said:

Allegiance: Kharadron Overlords

Skyport: Barak-Mhornar
 

Leaders

Aetheric Navigator (80) général
Aether-Khemist (140)
Lord-Ordinator (140)

Battleline
40 x Arkanaut Company (480)
10 x Arkanaut Company (120)
10 x Arkanaut Company (120)

Units
5 x Grundstok Thunderers (90)
5 x Grundstok Thunderers (90)

War Machines
Arkanaut Frigate (200)
Arkanaut Frigate (200)
Arkanaut Frigate (200)

Battalions
Iron Sky Squadron (130)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 127

 

2 drops

 

2 big threats :

 

Aetheric Navigator  général

Lord-Ordinator

Arkanaut Frigate
Arkanaut Frigate
Arkanaut Frigate

Aether-Khemist

40 x Arkanaut Company

The rest is there to screen or for objectives

 

 

 

Oh that's interesting. let us now how it goes! 

I never thought of something like that. What will you do with your two artefact choices? I'm guessing Aether loop for a re-roll and something protective for the Khemist?

I might try an ordinator and a Escort wing. It's lower in points leaving more open. Although the extra shot form the Iron Sky Squadron is more valuable. Really curious to hear how it plays.

[stratigo]

On 6/20/2019 at 5:39 PM, Reuben Parker said:

That list looks nice the 2 shot cannons turn one with the ordinator will actually make the ships do a reasonable punch. Then the 40 ark blob does it’s work   

You can mitigate the cannons somewhat in deployment sadly. Particularly with how fast or teleporty armies are there’s no reason to set up where the frigates can target you while maintaining the ordination buff, the ordination being a fair bit slower than the frigates

[Templar101]

Hi everyone, fairly new to KO but have been working on the following list:

 

Realm - Hyish

Artycles - Master of the Skies
Ammendments - Trust Athermatics, Not Superstition
Footnote - There's No Trading With Some People

Leaders
Aetheric Navigator
- General
- Fleetmaster
- Aethersight Loupe

Aether-Khemist
- Aethershock Earbuster

Battleline
Arkanaut Company x 40
- 12 Light Skyhooks

Arkanaut Company x 10
- 3 Aethermatic Volleyguns

Arkanaut Company x 10
- 3 Aethermatic Volleyguns

Artillery
Grundstock Gunhauler
- Sky Cannon

Grundstock Gunhauler
- Sky Cannon

Grundstock Gunhauler
- Sky Cannon

Behemoth
Arkanaut Frigate
- Heavy Sky Cannon
- Malefic Skymines

Other
Grundstock Thunderers ×5
- Aethershot Rifles

Skywardens x3
- Drill Cannon
- Grapnel Launcher

Skywardens x3
- Drill Cannon
- Grapnel Launcher

Warscroll Battalion
Grundstock Escort Wing

Extra Command Point
Starting Command Points = 3
Drops = 3
Total = 2,000

 

Main plan is reroll hits and wounds of 1 vs flying stuff which is the majority of good units in the game. All heroes dispel and my navigator dispels on 3d6. Khemist buffs the Arkanaut blob while my Skywardens go for objectives and harrass. Can also focus-fire down 1 unit per turn as the battalion gives me +1 to hit against a unit per turn for the units in the battalion (so 4 cannons hitting on 3s). 

 

Thoughts and criticisms?

[Unter]

Hi folks, seen a lot of lists recently focused on buffing Drill Cannons that have been doing pretty well. I'm not sure if I'm just missing a trick here, but even with Khemist-Mornar buffs of Khemist-Ziflin I’m only simming units of 9-12 drill cannons as doing around 6-9 damage.

 

Have you guys found success with them?

[GoddammitGary]

3 hours ago, Unter said:

Hi folks, seen a lot of lists recently focused on buffing Drill Cannons that have been doing pretty well. I'm not sure if I'm just missing a trick here, but even with Khemist-Mornar buffs of Khemist-Ziflin I’m only simming units of 9-12 drill cannons as doing around 6-9 damage.

 

Have you guys found success with them?

Yes.. corner stone to most of my lists . When you throw maybe 3 or 4 volley wounds in too and no trading then that's a dead dragon or blood thirster .. or something. Then the rest of the army may hoses through an important squad or even two ... Then you charge something with grapnel riggers ..

 

The army plays by choosing the range at which you wish to play. To do that you need a credible ranged rhreat. Drill cannons are that.

[Unter]

3 hours ago, GoddammitGary said:

Yes.. corner stone to most of my lists . When you throw maybe 3 or 4 volley wounds in too and no trading then that's a dead dragon or blood thirster .. or something. Then the rest of the army may hoses through an important squad or even two ... Then you charge something with grapnel riggers ..

 

The army plays by choosing the range at which you wish to play. To do that you need a credible ranged rhreat. Drill cannons are that.

Interesting, thanks. I guess you avoid taking a big arkanaut blob?

I guess you'd be working with a couple of drill cannon squads and then riggers in that case? Do you prefer the frigate or the 'clad? 

[Rahxephon]

On 6/24/2019 at 7:32 PM, Templar101 said:

Hi everyone, fairly new to KO but have been working on the following list:

...

People usually use one of the great skyports as of the additional rules that they have. Although you cant get the combination of artycle and amendment you've got there, they are still better to go with. 

For better dispelling Barak-Nar boosts your roll by 1, ties normally go to the caster so this gives you a slight edge unbinding against regular Joe wizards. Unfortunately the aethersight loupe has been faq'd. Whereas before you'd be able to reliably dispel the strongest casters in the game this now just gives and extra unbind rather than 3d6. So its mediocre now. I think it was fair to reduce it but I wouldve been happier if it was a +2 to unbind rather than an extra roll you'll probably not succeed in anyway.

Ships dont put out that much damage, but they're the USP of the army. More just a comment to check expectations to avoid disappointment the first time you use them. For comparison your arkanaut blob and khemist for 620 would be expected to do nearly double the damage of the ships for 590 (excluding battalion cost). That's not the be-all end-all though. The arkanaut blob is very static so you can get caught out of desired targets range or LoS, or the blob gets stuck in melee and forced to shoot them. The mobility of the ships has some advantages. Although at 18" range you're still going to only get 1 shot before melee (with units that want to that is). The frigate should also be more of a transport than gunship.

As far as I know you cant have drill cannons and grapnel launchers in a skywarden unit. Id swap the grapnel for a volley gun, keep them small ranged harassment units.

In general what youve put up looks decent. But I'd consider a great sky port. Most commonly used are Zilfin and Mhornar, for this Mhornar would be better. 

 

[nine7six]

hey everyone,

was wondering how people are maxing out skyhooks in their arkanaughts units, are you buying all the extra boxes just to receive one skyhook? or are you converting them somehow....

[azmarus]

somebody know list gary percival from heat3 2019 ?

[Vorin]

1 hour ago, nine7six said:

hey everyone,

was wondering how people are maxing out skyhooks in their arkanaughts units, are you buying all the extra boxes just to receive one skyhook? or are you converting them somehow....

A popular option is to use the irondrake gun and attach a hook bit.  Much cheaper and looks solid.
 

[GoddammitGary]

1 hour ago, azmarus said:

somebody know list gary percival from heat3 2019 ?

I took:

 

Khemist. Fleetmaster. Thermal rider 

Khemist

 

Incantor. Dais

 

3 X10 arks with hooks

9 riggers 2 grapnels

9 riggers 3 drill 3 volley

Ironclad. Endrins

Ziflin

No trading