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AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion


Chris Tomlin

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@froo As a Ogor player, why do we do this to ourselves ;) 

I thinkI think @Beliman wrote out a lot of good options. I just would add two things. But before that a clarification I missed the first time 'round. Khemist can buff melee weapons. 

1. I personally really like the idea of a big block of thunderers with rifles. Buffed by a khemist you will have an incredible amount of shots. Combined with Morhnar for run and shoot in the first turn, you can combine it with a decent threat range as well. I Japanese player in this thread, forgot his name sorry, did very well in a tournament with a block of 20 in that manner.

2. Although I don't like it, the more games I get in, the more i'm personally convinced KO in the current state it's in are a Go Big or Go home team. So going hard on big blocks of Arkanauts/thunderers or really alpha striking 9 Endrinriggers. It's probably me, but I cant really get mixed/balanced to work.

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Hi all!

First of all that's my custom kitbashed Arkanaut Admiral, we call him Ammiraglio Badoglio for his failures on the battlefield, so i made him look like the Italian General.

1368086791_AmmiraglioBadoglio.jpg.0b53ea72ed933ca6ee17ff9356b8b65e.jpg

 

That said i have a list i would field but i cannot decide the Skyport, artifacts and options. I like the Aethershock Earbuster for the potential but let me know if you know some better art-hero combination.
For the Skyport i know i could have a bloody good alpha strike going Barak Zilfin but i don't really like the play style, let me know what you think fit best my list:

 

Allegiance: Kharadron Overlords

Leaders
Brokk Grungsson (260)
Aether-Khemist (160)
Aether-Khemist (160)
Arkanaut Admiral (120)

Battleline
20 x Arkanaut Company (240)
- 6x Light Skyhooks
10 x Arkanaut Company (120)
10 x Arkanaut Company (120)

Units
9 x Endrinriggers (360)
10 x Grundstok Thunderers (200)

War Machines
Arkanaut Frigate (240)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 106

 
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On 1/4/2019 at 3:36 PM, Baron Wastelands said:

Endrinrigger delivery vessel:     2x10 arkanauts (one with 3 skypikes, one with 3 volley guns), 9 endrinriggers, 1 frigate, aether khemist. Send skypikes and riggers up in the frigate with the khemist, buff the riggers.

Hey there. I was planning on building my starting army with the above plan that I found in this forum. (And thanks so much for that post I was looking for recent builds for days) But I had a question. What should I equip the riggers with, or do I keep them all to their standard loadout?

Thanks~

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6 hours ago, DavionStar said:

Hey there. I was planning on building my starting army with the above plan that I found in this forum. (And thanks so much for that post I was looking for recent builds for days) But I had a question. What should I equip the riggers with, or do I keep them all to their standard loadout?

Thanks~

Yes, I’d keep them all with the standard rivet guns and aethermatic saws - that way you can maximise the khemist buff on them, and buff allthe saws for double attacks. They’re a hard hitting melee unit this way, and you want to do as much damage as you can on the charge, as you can’t take much back.. The frigate is your delivery system, so you don’t really need grapnels to close the gap. Without a ship I’d take a grapnel or two, but you shouldn’t need them here. Wouldn’t take the guns unless you plan to use them in a gunline list.

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@Baron WastelandsSweet, thanks for letting me know. And forgive me but there's another points I'd like to clarify. (I'm totally new to Warhammer tabletop so any inferred rules will go over my head)

Are the 9 Riggers all in one squad (with one Mizzenmaster) or 3 squads of 3?

What's a good weapon for the Frigate?

What Sky-Port works well with this build?

I just kinda need a starting point to judge and after that I can experiment. ^^;;

Also @Furuzzolothat is an awesome kitbash. I want to see if I can find some good scaled dwarf heads for some of my unit leaders and heros. So thanks for the inspiration!

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16 hours ago, DavionStar said:

Are the 9 Riggers all in one squad (with one Mizzenmaster) or 3 squads of 3?

What's a good weapon for the Frigate?

What Sky-Port works well with this build?

  • Squad of 9+khemist buff means 19 atk.
  • 3 Squads and only one buffed means: 15 atk, and enemy can retaliate after your first combat 8so they can target your other riggers).

Imho, If you don't have a plan for them, maybe go with 9+khemist buff.

For the friggate I always go with the Canon. But it's just because I like big numbers, but maybe somebody can give us some arguments to use skyhooks.

Talking about Sky-Ports, I can't give you just one. Like I said in my other post, every Sky-port has some type of use, but in my experience, Urbaz, Mhornar and Zilfin are the ones that you need to look if yo go for 2k points (unless you have a plan and some type of combo with other sky-ports).

Hope that helps, good luck!!!

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16 hours ago, DavionStar said:

@Baron WastelandsSweet, thanks for letting me know. And forgive me but there's another points I'd like to clarify. (I'm totally new to Warhammer tabletop so any inferred rules will go over my head)

Are the 9 Riggers all in one squad (with one Mizzenmaster) or 3 squads of 3?

What's a good weapon for the Frigate?

What Sky-Port works well with this build?

I just kinda need a starting point to judge and after that I can experiment. ^^;;

No worries, happy to help. Should say there are people around on here with a lot more Kharadron experience than me, (particularly in tactical insight!), as it’s something of a side army for me, but can give you the benefit of what experience I have. 

Keep the endrinriggers in one unit, for the same reason as above - it maximises their combat potential; the khemist can buff them all in one go, and they all get to strike on the charge before your opponent can swing back.

There are no good weapons for the frigate. Don’t be fooled into thinking it’s a tank or a cannon, it’s a transport which might occasionally pull off something else with mediocre success! Um, but as you have to choose a gun, take the cannon in a Barak Zilfin list, maybe a skyhook otherwise for the extra movement boost.

There are a couple of skyports which will boost charge/ melee effectiveness (Barak Zon is nice for the extra chance at a charge on disembark, and Rerolling ones on the charge), which are probably the best choice for this sort of list,  but I personally still usually run Zilfin, simply because I can drop the frigate loaded with melee combatants right where I want them, and save the trip.

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Thanks again so much! I think that answers everything I had questions about for now. I'm looking forward to building up this army and sending my balloon dorfs into glorious battle where they will die gloriously since I have never played tabletop before and I'll probably lose a lot. But it'll be fun as I learn.

And don't forget Furu up there, they still need help.

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11 hours ago, Furuzzolo said:

Yeah, i think they kinda answered my questions on skyport!

If none suggest better stuffs i'm going with the earbuster on a khemist...

Which skyport did you decide on as a result? Might impact your choice. In general: the Earbusters can be fun against particular targets, but in practice a lot of things are not going to be affected by a battleshock test, so it can feel a waste against a lot of armies. To be honest, most of the kharadron artefacts don’t help a khemist much. If you’re not going with realm artefacts (something like a gryph feather charm), then maybe the staff of OO, or even the gimlet lens.

Couple of pointers on your list: Firstly, I think you’re short on bodies for 2k. Your units will get chewed through quickly. And maybe heavy on heroes. It’s not a bad idea to take 2 Khemists, but I wouldn’t take Brokk and an admiral as well. Secondly,  I tend to agree with other posters on here that with KO, you need to go big on a theme - fast and hard hitting melee/buffed gunline/ etc. Your list is trying to do both, and that’s hard with Kharadron. I also don’t think I’d take one frigate at 2k (unless you’re really going to load it with riggers and hope it doesn’t get shot down) - in your current list you will only be able to deliver the 9 riggers and 10 arkanauts, which again will get swamped while the rest of your army watches. Some hard choices, certainly, but I’d say either take more melee focused units with the capacity (ships, grapnels, etc) to get there fast, or take a lot of guns and lots of thunderers (probably best without any ships), or a big alpha strike in an ironclad, or so on. Hope that helps - kharadron is one of those armies where there’s never enough points for the list you actually want!

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2 hours ago, Baron Wastelands said:

Which skyport did you decide on as a result?

I like Urbaz the most, that's maybe redundant with the 2 khemist, tho.

Between the ship, brokk and the admiral i'd like to drop the ship and add bodies! I have 5 more thunderers, 10 arkanauts and 6 skywardens in my locket... :)

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18 minutes ago, Furuzzolo said:

I like Urbaz the most, that's maybe redundant with the 2 khemist, tho.

Between the ship, brokk and the admiral i'd like to drop the ship and add bodies! I have 5 more thunderers, 10 arkanauts and 6 skywardens in my locket... :)

Well Urbaz gives you a bit of flexibility, yes. You have 20 arkanauts with 6 skyhooks, what are your other 30 arkanauts armed with for special weapons?

Unless they’re all melee heavy (skypikes), I think if you would rather drop the ship, I’d probably take the extra thunderers and arkanauts; and certainly both Khemists as that allows you to spread the buffs nice and wide with Urbaz. Keep the riggers back to countercharge something, and use your unique footnote to shoot with a buffed unit of rifle-only thunderers, or your skyhook arkanauts.

In a list like this, I’d probably make the admiral the general, and give him grudgebearer and Aethershock Bludgeon, and use him to kill foot heroes that get too close to your line. Then give a khemist the staff, just because you can.

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I'm still waiting for my order of models to come in, so I'm entertaining myself by throwing together a 2k sized army. It is probably bad! But I threw it together for fun. Take a look if you like.

Allegiance: Kharadron Overlords

Skyport: Barak-Mhornar
- Additional Footnote: There's No Reward Without Risk

Leaders
Arkanaut Admiral (120)
- General
- Trait: Fleetmaster 
- Artefact: Aethercharged Rune 
Endrinmaster (120)
Aether-Khemist (160)

Battleline
10 x Arkanaut Company (120)
- 3x Skypikes
10 x Arkanaut Company (120)
- 3x Skypikes
10 x Arkanaut Company (120)
- 3x Aethermatic Volley Guns

Units
3 x Endrinriggers (120)
- 1x Aethermatic Volley Guns
- 1x Drill Cannons
9 x Skywardens (360)

War Machines
Arkanaut Ironclad (420)
- Main Gun: Great Sky Cannon
- Great Endrinworks: The Last Word
Grundstok Gunhauler (160)
- Main Gun: Sky Cannon
Grundstok Gunhauler (160)
- Main Gun: Drill Cannon

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 109
 

So the idea is, the boats act as artillery, firing from a safe distance, the Gunhaulers acting as escorts using their Escort Vessel ability. The Endrinmaster, Riggers and Volley Company stay back to keep the boats healed and provide fire support. The two Skypike Companies and the Admiral try to hold the line. The Skywardens seek out targets of opportunity. Khemist hangs out on the line and buffs to help take out specific targets I need to be not there anymore.

I do also already have a Brokk Grungsson model that I bought at a convention recently, so I wouldn't mind finding a spot for him. But the idea behind this is that I like the boats, and I think Skywardens are cool (I like spears, what can I say).

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On 1/25/2019 at 12:30 AM, Baron Wastelands said:

In a list like this, I’d probably make the admiral the general, and give him grudgebearer and Aethershock Bludgeon, and use him to kill foot heroes that get too close to your line. Then give a khemist the staff, just because you can.

If you go for a melee beatstick, maybe it's better to swap for an endrimaster with grudgebearer+Relic blade: 4atacks at  3+3+ -3rend with D3 dmg (or 3 if you overcharge him). Possible 12dmg that could clean a lot of elite units with one swing. Btw,  doens't Urbaz give you another artefact? (I don't have the book here) So you could go with one charging Brokk+endrinmaster and a khemist with Gryph feather (or Thelmarider cloak to follow your riggers) buffing your mid range dmg and still haver another khemist on your backline.

Alpha strikes can be a pain for that strategy, but your countercharge could be devastating too.

10 hours ago, DavionStar said:

So the idea is, the boats act as artillery, firing from a safe distance, the Gunhaulers acting as escorts using their Escort Vessel ability. The Endrinmaster, Riggers and Volley Company stay back to keep the boats healed and provide fire support. The two Skypike Companies and the Admiral try to hold the line. The Skywardens seek out targets of opportunity. Khemist hangs out on the line and buffs to help take out specific targets I need to be not there anymore.

I do also already have a Brokk Grungsson model that I bought at a convention recently, so I wouldn't mind finding a spot for him. But the idea behind this is that I like the boats, and I think Skywardens are cool (I like spears, what can I say).

Sounds nice! I'm not sure that the boats will have the punch that you are looking for, but if that works, it could be awesome!!!! Care for alpha strikes armies, you don't have alot of bodies and one big hit could mean 30 dead arkanauts and that will be the end of your objectives  (endrinriggers+skywardens can't stay on points).
If you go Mhonar, imho, "there is no reward without risk" don't have enough utility without big chunks of endrinriggers or skypike arkanauts, and I believe that your list want to shoot them  (not charge them), so maybe "there is no trading with some peole" could help  (D3mw always helps, that Stardrake charging or even lowering their monstruous dmg table to make your arkanauts hold the line). Of course with 3 enrinriggers+6skypikes you can still use it, but I'm not sure if that has enough damage to charge other frontlines.

I'm curious with the Aethercharged Rune, seems that you have something in mind with the Admiral but I can't see what will be 😍😍😍!!! I need to knowhow good the admirals are because I'm used to swap him for an endrimaster (melee punch), Khemist or even Brokk.

Btw, if you still want some tipe of frontline, 5man Grundstock Thunderers can give you 9 aethershock rifle atacks+1aetheric fumigator and reduce 1atk with "Choking Fuse", and you can put them behind some arkanauts and this ability will still be active (2" range). I use that to stop some 40skeletons blobs cleaning my arkanatus (removing form 25% to 50% of their hits with just one model that they can't even reach him with more than 1 or 2 skeletons is awesome), btw, that doesn't mean that our arkanauts will survive, but  if the big blob is not buffed enough , we have some change that the enemy will lose more than two or even three turns to take an objective (enough to score a win!!!).

Edited by Beliman
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On 1/26/2019 at 12:41 PM, Beliman said:

If you go for a melee beatstick, maybe it's better to swap for an endrimaster with grudgebearer+Relic blade: 4atacks at  3+3+ -3rend with D3 dmg (or 3 if you overcharge him). Possible 12dmg that could clean a lot of elite units with one swing.

While the potential for 12 damage on the Endrinmaster is higher than the admiral, I agree, the admiral is still more reliable, and will consistently outdamage the endrinmaster on average (who will only overcharge 2/3 of the time, only land damage 4/9 of the time, etc etc) if he self-buffs. The admiral [assuming the loadout I had, which was only using KO artefacts as the OP hadn’t mentioned allegiance/ realm artefacts] will do 4.53 wounds on average to heroes and monsters without buffing himself, and 5.19 wounds on average to anything if he uses his command ability on himself. Moreover, he will very reliably do four or six wounds - the chance of doing 6 wounds is about 65%, which is enough to reliably take out most foot heroes. The endrinmaster with one extra attack is more swingy, granted, but will average 4.74 wounds. The chance of doing  the full 12 wounds is about 2.5%.

I used to prefer the endrinmaster as a general, as he looks to be beefier. But more recently I have come to really value the relaible output of the admiral. The relic blade is a good shout for either, however, and increases the admiral’s damage to an average of 7.7 self buffed (6.8 without, against heroes and monsters). Chance of doing now 9 wounds still 65%, but rend only -2, so will depend a bit more on target.

In short, unless you want to rely on rolling really well, I’d still take the admiral as a melee general over the endrinmaster.

Moreover, I think the endrinmaster with relic blade and grudgebearer has 4 attacks, D3+1 damage [4 when charged]. Not sure where you are getting -3 rend from? He has -1 I think. The above assumes they both have the bludgeon and grudgebearer. (Also all calculations before saves).

Edited by Baron Wastelands
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57 minutes ago, Baron Wastelands said:

Moreover, I think the endrinmaster with relic blade and grudgebearer has 4 attacks, D3+1 damage [4 when charged]. Not sure where you are getting -3 rend from? He has -1 I think. The above assumes they both have the bludgeon and grudgebearer. (Also all calculations before saves).

Wops, I wanted to say "Rune blade" not "Relic Blade" sorry. 

Btw, don't know if @Furuzzolo wants to use some realm artifacts, just an assumption for my part.

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Hi, pretty new with AoS, bit of a rules question with Kharadron Allies. Can you have your main detachment KO from say skyport Thryng and ally in an Urbaz khemist or Nar navigator?

I cant really see something that says you couldnt, but AoS rules seem to be all over the place so couldve missed something.

And then if it does work, would abilties like the allied khemists work on your main detachment. Or are you meant to replace the skyfarer keyword with the name of your skyport?

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40 minutes ago, Rahxephon said:

Hi, pretty new with AoS, bit of a rules question with Kharadron Allies. Can you have your main detachment KO from say skyport Thryng and ally in an Urbaz khemist or Nar navigator?

I cant really see something that says you couldnt, but AoS rules seem to be all over the place so couldve missed something.

And then if it does work, would abilties like the allied khemists work on your main detachment. Or are you meant to replace the skyfarer keyword with the name of your skyport?

You can only have one allegiance, so no. Nothing you ally in from other allegiances brings with it allegiance abilities, you just get the raw troops. Moreover, your allegiance isn’t to a skyport, it’s Kharadron Overlords, and as part of the allegiance abilities you pick a skyport to be from. Finally, KO can’t ally with KO, they’re not on the ally list.

For house rules, or even open/narrative play with your opponents agreement, go for it. But not for matched play.

Edited by Baron Wastelands
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Makes sense, thanks. Was pretty sure it wouldn't be a thing otherwise everyone would be doing it.

Had never heard of an allies table before, looks like it is in ghb2017? I had thought ghb2018 more or less replaced 2017 and kept whatever was relevant but i guess thats not the case?

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1 hour ago, Rahxephon said:

Makes sense, thanks. Was pretty sure it wouldn't be a thing otherwise everyone would be doing it.

Had never heard of an allies table before, looks like it is in ghb2017? I had thought ghb2018 more or less replaced 2017 and kept whatever was relevant but i guess thats not the case?

The allies table is at the end of the points section for each Grand Alliance. 

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4 hours ago, Future said:

Man what a showing Overlords had at cancon. Game 6 was the best game I've seen in AOS in a long time.

It was super fun to watch! Congrats Krohn and KO players, top table game 6 at the worlds biggest AoS tourney, right down to the wire!

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