AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion

[Magnild]

1 hour ago, Gauche said:

Why would you ever shoot the one that's on a 2+? They have four targets. At the very best one can get TFH, one can get the 5++ Relic, one can get AoD. Mystic Shield is a possibility but lists I've seen aren't running it over the 5++ and I don't think it's a good build for them.

With the guns you brought you can easily punch through the weak one. If they stack bonuses then there are two weak ones so you have some choice. If they bunch up then they lose the Mission, just not the one you played because it's insanely stacked in their favor and one of the worst Missions in the GHB, you just plink away and play not to get doubled.

Still just a loss due to the Mission, try the matchup again with literally any other Mission and I think you'd have a better time. :] Personally I'm hoping SoB get more and more popular, they dumpster the armies that we struggle with for the moment.

Again, it’s okay ya have 4 targets.  3 bunch up and one is Towards the 4th on objective with mystic shield on him.  You gonna position yourself in threat range of 3 mega gargants or the 1 near a flank?  Set yourself up in range of the 3 and get ready to be swallowed up.

 

how do they lose a 3 obj mission by camping on 2 and kick them around wherever they want ?  An objective can go away top of round 3.

Edited July 22, 2021 by Magnild

[Btimmy]

47 minutes ago, Magnild said:

Again, it’s okay ya have 4 targets.  3 bunch up and one is Towards the 4th on objective with mystic shield on him.  You gonna position yourself in threat range of 3 mega gargants or the 1 near a flank?  Set yourself up in range of the 3 and get ready to be swallowed up.

 

how do they lose a 3 obj mission by camping on 2 and kick them around wherever they want ?  An objective can go away top of round 3.

Some of this is on you for building a list with absolutely no magic defense. Gargants get zero bonus to cast, so including a nav/runelord makes it much harder for them to get the mystic shield off. After that its just a matter of avoiding TFH, the one with the 5+, and all out defense, which you can't really do anything about. 

Edited July 22, 2021 by Btimmy

[Magnild]

46 minutes ago, Btimmy said:

Some of this is on you for building a list with absolutely no magic defense. Gargants get zero bonus to cast, so including a nav/runelord makes it much harder for them to get the mystic shield off. After that its just a matter of avoiding TFH, the one with the 5+, and all out defense, which you can't really do anything about. 

Khemist has arcane tome.  And yeah I’ve faced amulet of destiny also.

 

okay so avoid 3/4 of them?  So the one you want to target is guarded by other gargants ready to counter charge as they kick the objectives around and bunch up on them.

[Btimmy]

9 minutes ago, Magnild said:

Khemist has arcane tome.  And yeah I’ve faced amulet of destiny also.

 

okay so avoid 3/4 of them?  So the one you want to target is guarded by other gargants ready to counter charge as they kick the objectives around and bunch up on them.

TFH is once per game, you can't do anything about the artefact or all out defense. Honestly I think people are giving the giants a bit too much credit in the damage department, they don't really do all that much. If three are charging you, good chance they just left an objective open to do so as well. 

[Magnild]

7 hours ago, Btimmy said:

TFH is once per game, you can't do anything about the artefact or all out defense. Honestly I think people are giving the giants a bit too much credit in the damage department, they don't really do all that much. If three are charging you, good chance they just left an objective open to do so as well. 

Yeah let’s do a little thinking and math for our 9” and 12” weaponry and the diameter of their base, as well as needing to be within 6” of obj for standard scenarios.  No, there isn’t a good chance they left an objective open.

Yes, TFH is once per game and they have 4 big monsters that own any objective they touch and manipulate the battlefield objectives.  The clock is ticking for scoring your points, so they’re popping it each turn to dictate who you do and don’t want to target.

Edited July 22, 2021 by Magnild

[Btimmy]

3 hours ago, Magnild said:

Yeah let’s do a little thinking and math for our 9” and 12” weaponry and the diameter of their base, as well as needing to be within 6” of obj for standard scenarios.  No, there isn’t a good chance they left an objective open.

Yes, TFH is once per game and they have 4 big monsters that own any objective they touch and manipulate the battlefield objectives.  The clock is ticking for scoring your points, so they’re popping it each turn to dictate who you do and don’t want to target.

No reason to be within 9, 12 is the shortest range of our guns and you can't shoot with any 9" ranged weapons after you fly high anyway. 

[Magnild]

Fumigators, Khemist, and privateer pistol are 9”.  There are times I stay outside of 9” if I don’t want them to redeploy away depending on which direction I’m coming in and where they are in relation to the objective.  Khemist have a source of -2 rend and fumigators with +1 for being on foot, +1 hit bonus for arkanauts within 9” and such definitely can add up between them.

[PJetski]

Might have to use Geminids as my spell in a bottle to stop people from using All Out Defense in the shooting phase.

[Boar]

6 minutes ago, PJetski said:

Might have to use Geminids as my spell in a bottle to stop people from using All Out Defense in the shooting phase.

Problem here is that to move spell you need to control it with caster who need to be... Wizard

[PJetski]

2 minutes ago, Boar said:

Problem here is that to move spell you need to control it with caster who need to be... Wizard

I don't think this is true, for a number of reasons.

19.5.1 says "A predatory endless spell within 30" of the model that summoned it is controlled by that model" - there is no requirement to be a WIZARD in order to control an endless spell. There is a limit on how many predatory spells a WIZARD can control, but nothing requiring the WIZARD keyword to control a spell.

Even if the spell is not controlled, it is "wild" and moves at the end of the phase anyway. Since you summoned it on your turn you can pick the first endless spell to move... so you always get to move your geminids regardless.

[Boar]

12 minutes ago, PJetski said:

There is a limit on how many predatory spells a WIZARD can control, but nothing requiring the WIZARD keyword to control a spell.

I mean, that would kinda suggest that limit for non-wizards is zero (and so effectively Wizard keword is required). Then perhaps maybe it's unlimited for non-Wizards, tough it would just sounds strange from persepctive of intent/lore.

But there is also this bit:

16 minutes ago, PJetski said:

Even if the spell is not controlled, it is "wild" and moves at the end of the phase anyway. Since you summoned it on your turn you can pick the first endless spell to move... so you always get to move your geminids regardless.

Yeah, you are right.

[Thostos]

 

 

  List im going with to start the new editions matched play games with.Sticking with Zilfin as its been my chosen paint scheme since the armies release.Just need to finish painting 8 of the Thunder`s and the Gunboat.Trying Gotrek instead of a dual IC build I wont have the overall mobility that comes with the extra IC but hope to keep the wild stunty midfield in games pushing the opponents army around,keeping them off their game plan.Plus I think Gotrek is a good counter to Mega`s.

 

 Endrinmaster with Suit/Great Tinkerer/Staff--General

Admiral

Gotrek
 

 Arkanaut Co x10

 Arkanaut Co x10

Endrinriggersx3

Gunhauler with cannon and Torpedo

Ironclad with Cannon and Last Word

All in Battle Regiment for single drop

 

Edited July 26, 2021 by Thostos

[Gauche]

Took a week off from gaming but I think the Haves and Have Nots of KO are pretty understood by now. I don't foresee a pure shooting list as being able to work. I mean I've taken the Shootiest lists possible and it's still a massive slog against a lot of armies. Right now the game is totally based around being as unkillable as possible, Rend 1 is effectively useless except for killing chaff and so on. We simply can't punch through things like 3+ Save Heroes, 2/3+ Save units, etc. with any appreciable ease.

I still like Barak-Nar, the Unbinds are so important against every Faction that's doing well and having a ton of CP on Turn 1 has been way more valuable than I expected. Pretty much every-game I can At the Double a unit to develop it, use Redeploy to avoid some Turn 1 crack back, and have no shortage of AoD/AoA. I've been disappointed in the Alpha-Beast Pack, the fact that it goes off before Priority is decided makes it way less useful for us. I'd still take it in double Ironclad because what else is there but otherwise ****** it.

My gut feeling is KO has to make Gotrek work so I'm going back to that. We need the Mortal Wounds, we need the zoning, and we need the Rend 2. Otherwise we just lose to the armies that build for durability and stand on Objectives (SCE, MoN, etc.) while still having the problem matchups. This takes away from the Alpha Strike of a Zilfin list or a double Ironclad/ABP list but I just don't see a way around that. The only other options are rely on 6's from Endrinmasters or SiaB to generate Mortals but both methods have huge downsides.

Right now my sticking point is whether to run a FULL BattleBoat (5 Endrinmasters) or cut down to three and pick up a Frigate. The Frigate gives some more Shooting and blocking while also restoring some of that Alpha Strike threat with the ABP, Endrinmasters just hit hard and tax an opponents CP for AoD in multiple phases. I'm tempted to go with the Frigate because KO rarely wants to go first so you really have to layer on the Alpha Strike potential and scare people into wanting their buffs/positioning up first. The only Faction I cared about Turn Order against was LRL, with Teclis, because PoTeclis is so nuts. But I just started taking a Navigator with the Orb so that solved that issue, you get your one Spell and nothing else or I stop the only Spell I care about.

Realistically I think Cities just plays a better version of our army right now. Irondrakes blow us out of the water because of Rend 2 and they can make them work a lot better than we can. They also have infinitely more combos and cheeky stuff because of their unit access/variety. I'm still trying to make KO work as best they can though. :]

[badnewsbeers]

What’s the latest on gunhaulers? Cannon still the best option on average?

[ArkanautDadmiral]

Escalation league starting soon at 750 points,

Thinking:

Zilfin

Endrinmaster - occular staff, tinkerer

9x ArkCo

Frigate - skymines

5x Thunderers

Gunhauler - compartments 

 

Could just as easy switch that to Nar though.

Struggling for where to go at 1000, was thinking maybe (warlord battalion):

Bjorgen

Navigator - flare pistol

Endrinmaster (general) - occular staff, tinkerer

10x ArkCo

Frigate

5x Thunderers

Gunhauler

Profiteers

 

my first games of AoS will be AoS 3 because of COVID. League was supposed to start last year, still not managed to get everything painted in time!

 

[DarrinTheOccult]

So, I've been thinking about this list. The general idea behind the list is a punchy alpha-strike with the 15 thunderers + navigator's Flarepistol artefact + extra first turn command points for being Barak Nar that you can spend on Admiral's tricks and so on.
 

Spoiler

Allegiance: Kharadron Overlords
- Sky Port: Barak Nar
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs: Indomitable

Leaders
Aether-Khemist (90)**
- General
Endrinmaster with Dirigible Suit (190)**
- Artefact: Aethercharged Rune
Aetheric Navigator (95)**
- Artefact: Svaregg-Stein Illuminator Flarepistol
Arkanaut Admiral (125)*

Battleline
10 x Arkanaut Company (100)*
- 2x Skypikes
- 2x Light Skyhooks
- 2x Aethermatic Volley Guns
10 x Arkanaut Company (100)*
- 2x Skypikes
- 2x Light Skyhooks
- 2x Aethermatic Volley Guns
15 x Grundstok Thunderers (405)*
- 2x Aetheric Fumigators
- 3x Decksweepers
- 3x Aethercannons
- 1x Grundstok Mortars
- Reinforced x 2

Units
6 x Endrinriggers (240)*
- 2x Aethermatic Volley Guns
- 2x Drill Launcher
- Reinforced x 1
1 x Grundstok Gunhauler (155)*
- Main Gun: Sky Cannon

Behemoths
Arkanaut Ironclad (490)*
- Main Gun: Great Sky Cannon
- Great Endrinworks: Ebullient Buoyancy Aid

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment
**Command Entourage - Magnificent

Additional Enhancements
Artefact

Total: 1990 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 3 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 114
Drops: 4
 

 

[Beliman]

On 8/14/2021 at 1:31 PM, DarrinTheOccult said:

So, I've been thinking about this list. The general idea behind the list is a punchy alpha-strike with the 15 thunderers + navigator's Flarepistol artefact + extra first turn command points for being Barak Nar that you can spend on Admiral's tricks and so on.
 

  Hide contents

Allegiance: Kharadron Overlords
- Sky Port: Barak Nar
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs: Indomitable

Leaders
Aether-Khemist (90)**
- General
Endrinmaster with Dirigible Suit (190)**
- Artefact: Aethercharged Rune
Aetheric Navigator (95)**
- Artefact: Svaregg-Stein Illuminator Flarepistol
Arkanaut Admiral (125)*

Battleline
10 x Arkanaut Company (100)*
- 2x Skypikes
- 2x Light Skyhooks
- 2x Aethermatic Volley Guns
10 x Arkanaut Company (100)*
- 2x Skypikes
- 2x Light Skyhooks
- 2x Aethermatic Volley Guns
15 x Grundstok Thunderers (405)*
- 2x Aetheric Fumigators
- 3x Decksweepers
- 3x Aethercannons
- 1x Grundstok Mortars
- Reinforced x 2

Units
6 x Endrinriggers (240)*
- 2x Aethermatic Volley Guns
- 2x Drill Launcher
- Reinforced x 1
1 x Grundstok Gunhauler (155)*
- Main Gun: Sky Cannon

Behemoths
Arkanaut Ironclad (490)*
- Main Gun: Great Sky Cannon
- Great Endrinworks: Ebullient Buoyancy Aid

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment
**Command Entourage - Magnificent

Additional Enhancements
Artefact

Total: 1990 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 3 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 114
Drops: 4
 

 

It seems really fun and crazy to play!!! All in since first turn, 2.0 style!!
I'm curious how do you do, with all this +1 saves.

I'm start thinking in a list with Geminids+ Zilfin Alpha. With our new +1hit/+1wound and no more AoD, it could be enough to remove big threats from the table.

[Beliman]

A quick question that we talekd about in our WhatsApp group:
 

What do you think? Imo, that not shoudl be allowed, it seems like an unwanted interaction.

[Boar]

1 hour ago, Beliman said:

A quick question that we talekd about in our WhatsApp group:
 

What do you think? Imo, that not shoudl be allowed, it seems like an unwanted interaction.

I will only say that bit from warscroll is in parenthesis, and thus part about overwritting rule is questioned. As GW puts just additional clarifications in parenthesis or something to that effect.

Something to have in mind

[Dongilles]

New FAQ's are out.

Perfect for our steampunk dwarfs!

If units are setup at once, they can be setup in a boat.

With Alfabeast we can use fly high.

 

[Beliman]

Grudges affect Thryng non-KO Duardins again:

But Fly High seems to be in a weird state:

That can only be true if we count a Fly High as a retreat. So, we lost a setup and we won a "special" move, or at least, that's how I understand this FAQ.

[Boar]

19 minutes ago, Beliman said:

Grudges affect Thryng non-KO Duardins again:

But Fly High seems to be in a weird state:

That can only be true if we count a Fly High as a retreat. So, we lost a setup and we won a "special" move, or at least, that's how I understand this FAQ.

In 2.0 Disengage was in very peculiar state. It was clearly referenced in Fly High as possibility, but really only made sense for normal retreat, as Fly High was setup and so was ruled by different rules than moves. There was never situation when Disengage was required after Fly High

What they wrote here seems to show that intent is for Disengage to work with Fly High and be required to shoot if Fly High is used instead of retreat. And so in effect treating Fly High as in a way inheriting restrictions from Retreat move.

It is written tough in such way that RAW it does not exactly match apparent intent.

[C.A.O.S]

So guys, let me understand. Units cannot disembark from a boat after it has moved. But also, units can disembark only at the end of the movement phase. So it means that a unit can disembark a skyvessel only if it has been stationary in the movement phase? 

[Dongilles]

4 hours ago, C.A.O.S said:

So guys, let me understand. Units cannot disembark from a boat after it has moved. But also, units can disembark only at the end of the movement phase. So it means that a unit can disembark a skyvessel only if it has been stationary in the movement phase? 

For me it is clear. Battletome rules over core rules.

they can join before moving

[Boar]

Tough many see bit in parenthesis as only reminder, additional info not part of rule per se