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AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion


Chris Tomlin

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Heh. I posted about that in this thread back on Tuesday and no one commented. I was surprised it didn't get more attention.

It's not the Zilfin move, though. It's different in some very significant ways. It happens after deployment, not during your hero phase. Which means you're leaving your behind hanging out in the breeze if you try to use it too offensively and end up not going first. The Zilfin move is much lower risk.

Still, it's an amazing ability for getting into early positions for denying objectives or battle tactics.  I think your list could work out quite well so long as there aren't too many amazing one-drop lists in your meta.

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1 hour ago, Beliman said:

It It seems that we can't use Fly High if our boats are in melee range. What do you think ?

Waiting for launch day/whenever FAQs etc. It was actually FAQed in 2.0 as wording isn't the best for this edition or previous honestly

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There is another thing that came up when I was discussing competitive builds with one of my friends the other day. The new Battle Tactics system encourages you to not table your opponent at the earliest possible opportunity. Because if you do that, you're unable to farm points off of their stuff dying at the right time over the whole course of the game.

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5 minutes ago, Gwydion said:

There is another thing that came up when I was discussing competitive builds with one of my friends the other day. The new Battle Tactics system encourages you to not table your opponent at the earliest possible opportunity. Because if you do that, you're unable to farm points off of their stuff dying at the right time over the whole course of the game.

A win is a win and most tourneys count a tabling as max points

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On 6/18/2021 at 4:56 AM, Arzalyn said:

KO points from the GHB 2021 (no changes in unit size or roles):

Arkanauts 100

Frigate 250

Ironclad 490

Khemist 90

Navigator 95

Admiral 125

Thundrik 150

Brokk 255

Endrinmaster with Dirigible 190

Endrinmaster 105

Endrinriggers 120

Gunhauler 155

Thunderers 135

Skywardens 115

No points for Dagnai Holdenstock? Or does it fall under Cities of Sigmar?

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12 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

Book rules always supersede core rules so these new movement rules wont/dont apply

The thing is that the book rules require you to be able to make a normal move by saying INSTEAD. You cannot make a normal move in three inches per core rules so you can’t fulfill the instead of a normal move requirement.

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6 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

Book rules always supersede core rules so these new movement rules wont/dont apply

I agree, but only if they are contradictory. In this case, I don't see any contradiction.

The Fly High rule clearly states that "Instead of a Normal Move...", does that means that you should be allowed to make that Normal Move to use Fly High? 

If I don't need to be allowed to make a Normal Move, can I use Fly High in the Charge, Shooting, Melee, etc.. phase? I'm pretty sure that we can't, so what's the deal with that.

"It can retreat or disengage..." is pointless in Fly High description because this moves don't have anything to do with Fly High,  FAQs clearly states Fly High is just Set-Up (you can't mix them, you use Fly High or a Normal Move).

I still think that we can use Fly High within 3",and I've got an idea to support that (KO FAQs), but it contradicts other armies FAQs so I'm not so sure... /facepalm

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14 minutes ago, Beliman said:

I agree, but only if they are contradictory. In this case, I don't see any contradiction.

The Fly High rule clearly states that "Instead of a Normal Move...", does that means that you should be allowed to make that Normal Move to use Fly High? 

If I don't need to be allowed to make a Normal Move, can I use Fly High in the Charge, Shooting, Melee, etc.. phase? I'm pretty sure that we can't, so what's the deal with that.

"It can retreat or disengage..." is pointless in Fly High description because this moves don't have anything to do with Fly High,  FAQs clearly states Fly High is just Set-Up (you can't mix them, you use Fly High or a Normal Move).

I still think that we can use Fly High within 3",and I've got an idea to support that (KO FAQs), but it contradicts other armies FAQs so I'm not so sure... /facepalm

It's only pointless if you decide it is, considering the wording is utterly unclear and open to interpretation in reading. When it says you can retreat and disengage, to me, it means literally that. Tis the words as written.

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18 minutes ago, stratigo said:

It's only pointless if you decide it is, considering the wording is utterly unclear and open to interpretation in reading. When it says you can retreat and disengage, to me, it means literally that. Tis the words as written.

But I didn't decide that!!

Quote

In your movement phase, you can pick 1 friendly unit that is more than 3" from all enemy units and declare that it will make a normal move or that it will run, or you can pick 1 friendly unit that is within 3" of an enemy unit and declare that it will retreat.

So, we have 3 types of Moves: Normal Move, Run and Retreat (Disengage is a Retreat move with some bonus added). Fly High is a Set-Up. And we even have FAQs that they are not linked with other abilities:

Quote

Q: Some abilities allow you to remove a unit from the battlefield and set it up again, and say that this ‘counts as their move for the movement phase’ (or words to that effect). Do these units count as having made a move for the purposes of any other rules or abilities?

A: No, it simply restricts them from making a move later on.

So, they are all diferent things. You can't mix a bit of a Normal Move or a Set-Up. Or mix Disengage and a Normal Move. Or an ability that Set-Up one of your units and Disengage.

Fly High's description states that you can Disengage and Retreat, and it's 100% true if you are within 3" of the enemy, but that doesn't allow you to mix all this Moves.... unless Fly High turns to be a Normal Move (like Disengage is a Retreat).

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1 minute ago, Beliman said:

But I didn't decide that!!

So, we have 3 types of Moves: Normal Move, Run and Retreat (Disengage is a Retreat move with some bonus added). Fly High is a Set-Up. And we even have FAQs that they are not linked with other abilities:

So, they are all diferent things. You can't mix a bit of a Normal Move or a Set-Up. Or mix Disengage and a Normal Move. Or an ability that Set-Up one of your units and Disengage.

Fly High's description states that you can Disengage and Retreat, and it's 100% true if you are within 3" of the enemy, but that doesn't allow you to mix all this Moves.... unless Fly High turns to be a Normal Move (like Disengage is a Retreat).

Except it says clearly that a fly high can disengage and retreat. So... I'm going to read that literally.

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3 minutes ago, stratigo said:

Except it says clearly that a fly high can disengage and retreat. So... I'm going to read that literally.

The description talks about what the model can do:

Quote

It (This model) can retreat and disengage.

It's true, your skyvessel can retreat and disengage (if you within 3").

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5 minutes ago, Beliman said:

The description talks about what the model can do:

It's true, your skyvessel can retreat and disengage (if you within 3").

Or It(fly high). Welcome to the english language.

 

rules writers should avoid indefinite pronouns.

Edited by stratigo
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I think the 'it can retreat and disengage' part is more important then we think here. Why include that part at all if its a totally different thing? Including it implies that is part of Fly High in some manner.

So Fly High allows you to retreat and disengage? So if someone is within 3" you cant use Fly High which is also considered retreating and disengaging? Thats how it reads to me at least...huh...I just contradicted and confused myself when I said it out loud...ima sit this one out till a FAQ lol

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2 hours ago, Malakithe said:

I think the 'it can retreat and disengage' part is more important then we think here. Why include that part at all if its a totally different thing? Including it implies that is part of Fly High in some manner.

So Fly High allows you to retreat and disengage? So if someone is within 3" you cant use Fly High which is also considered retreating and disengaging? Thats how it reads to me at least...huh...I just contradicted and confused myself when I said it out loud...ima sit this one out till a FAQ lol

That's how High Fly should have been since the begining!
Even FAQs says that using Fly High is not counted as a retreat move... then why put it on the descriptions!!

Quote

Q: If I use the ‘Fly High’ ability with a Skyvessel that is within 3" of an enemy unit, does that count as a retreat move? A: No.

Common GW, that's so confusing!!!

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On 6/18/2021 at 7:08 PM, Gwydion said:

There is another thing that came up when I was discussing competitive builds with one of my friends the other day. The new Battle Tactics system encourages you to not table your opponent at the earliest possible opportunity. Because if you do that, you're unable to farm points off of their stuff dying at the right time over the whole course of the game.

Yea an neither can they.   You jsut need 1 more point  not 5. Killing them is always a good plan 

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11 hours ago, Beliman said:

That's how High Fly should have been since the begining!
Even FAQs says that using Fly High is not counted as a retreat move... then why put it on the descriptions!!

Common GW, that's so confusing!!!

Yeah that makes no sense at all

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