AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion

[zilberfrid]

2 hours ago, dmorley21 said:

What model do you all think it is fair to use Jakkob Bugmansson as?

I could see him as an Admiral or Aether Khemist. 

Khemist already is served by Thundrik, so Admiral. I hope he gets his own warscroll though.

[GrimDork]

29 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

Khemist already is served by Thundrik, so Admiral. I hope he gets his own warscroll though.

+1 to this!

Could also be a KO themed alt Gotrek

Edited November 7, 2020 by GrimDork

[Phasteon]

13 minutes ago, GrimDork said:

+1 to this!

Could also be a KO themed alt Gotrek

You just had a great idea my opponents wont like hahaha

[zilberfrid]

On the topic of Bugmansson and heroes, could we tally how many alternate sculpts we have?

• Endrinmaster: 2, Endrinmaster, Endrinmaster painting the Ironclad (Loondrinmaster, has different warscroll).
• Navigator: 3/4 Navigator, Nav on Ironclad, Nav on Frigate, maybe the guy in the Ironclad with the flare pistol if you have that artifact?
• Khemist: 2 Khemist, Thundrik (might have different warscroll, but basically just the same
• Admiral: 1.5 Admiral, Jakkob doesn't really fit here either

Another note, it stated Jakkob could be "a characterful addition to a larger Kharadron Overlords force", but does anyone have a clue on how they intend that?

[Rahxephon]

Isnt the anvil of apotheosis for this sorta thing?

130pts, probably not that worth it, would be cool if you could say any skyfarer within 3" at the start of the hero phase could heal D3 wounds, or return a model up to D3 wounds back. But thats just keeping it in line with what the anvil offers.

 

[zilberfrid]

1 hour ago, Rahxephon said:

Isnt the anvil of apotheosis for this sorta thing?

130pts, probably not that worth it, would be cool if you could say any skyfarer within 3" at the start of the hero phase could heal D3 wounds, or return a model up to D3 wounds back. But thats just keeping it in line with what the anvil offers.

 

AoA would be locking content away in another book, so I'd say no. It's also not balanced at all with the ethereal thing. If GW is making new models without tying them to a game, well, that's about half the worth of the thing gone. I have started making a Bugmannsson inspired Admiral from a spare Thundrik model and a few buckets (as well as more stuff, of course).

[zilberfrid]

Halfway there:

 

[eciu]

What are the chances we will get KO Christmas box this year /

[Beliman]

On 11/12/2020 at 7:50 PM, eciu said:

What are the chances we will get KO Christmas box this year /

A bit low.

Appart from SCE,  there isn't any other army that had two battleforces before (btw, that's not a "rule", just an observation).

Edit: not an observation anymore. We have a new and shiny BF!!

Edited November 17, 2020 by Beliman

[zilberfrid]

One thing I noticed with the Thundrik model, is that there is a very suspicious tube from the the front of the pants to the back.

I'm not going to speculate on reusing fluids here...

[nissefika]

If and when is bugmansson warscroll coming?

[zilberfrid]

11 minutes ago, nissefika said:

If and when is bugmansson warscroll coming?

There is no download section, and it's not listed in contents.

[Ganigumo]

I've had some KO laying around since I bought Aether War for the Tzeentch stuff last year and I'm trying to plan out my next army. I love the looks but I tend to need a list before I can motivate myself to paint so that's exactly what I'm doing. I want to make a list that runs Skywardens even though I've heard endrinriggers are generally better, So far I've got the aether war half and the new warcry box (so 9 balloon boys, a gunhauler, 5 thunderers, & an endrinmaster in dirigible suit).

So far I've thrown this together:
Allegiance: Kharadron Overlords

Leaders
Endrinmaster with Dirigible Suit (190)
- General

Battleline
6 x Skywardens (200)
- 1x Skyhooks
12 x Skywardens (400)
- 1x Skyhooks

Units
1 x Grundstok Gunhauler (130)
- Great Endrinworks: Coalbeard's Collapsible Compartments
1 x Grundstok Gunhauler (130)
5 x Grundstok Thunderers (120)

Behemoths
Arkanaut Frigate (220)

Battalions
Grundstok Escort Wing (120)

Total: 1510 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 86
 

I'm not sure if this is any good or how to finish off the list. As for Skyports I was thinking Barak-zon since it explicitly buffs the skywardens,  Barak-Urbaz so I could get Aethergold on Skywarden units with less than 12 models, or Barak-Thryng since it has a melee subtheme and I could maybe fit a cool ally in (maybe a few HGB).

[nissefika]

17 hours ago, Ganigumo said:

I've had some KO laying around since I bought Aether War for the Tzeentch stuff last year and I'm trying to plan out my next army. I love the looks but I tend to need a list before I can motivate myself to paint so that's exactly what I'm doing. I want to make a list that runs Skywardens even though I've heard endrinriggers are generally better, So far I've got the aether war half and the new warcry box (so 9 balloon boys, a gunhauler, 5 thunderers, & an endrinmaster in dirigible suit).

So far I've thrown this together:
Allegiance: Kharadron Overlords

Leaders
Endrinmaster with Dirigible Suit (190)
- General

Battleline
6 x Skywardens (200)
- 1x Skyhooks
12 x Skywardens (400)
- 1x Skyhooks

Units
1 x Grundstok Gunhauler (130)
- Great Endrinworks: Coalbeard's Collapsible Compartments
1 x Grundstok Gunhauler (130)
5 x Grundstok Thunderers (120)

Behemoths
Arkanaut Frigate (220)

Battalions
Grundstok Escort Wing (120)

Total: 1510 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 86
 

I'm not sure if this is any good or how to finish off the list. As for Skyports I was thinking Barak-zon since it explicitly buffs the skywardens,  Barak-Urbaz so I could get Aethergold on Skywarden units with less than 12 models, or Barak-Thryng since it has a melee subtheme and I could maybe fit a cool ally in (maybe a few HGB).

Well first skywarden are not good.if I would play them would it  be with max 24 inch weapon and then zon don't do much. Arkos is the best unit in Ko for points and damage and they are great as screens, so you want alest 20. If you want zon go for it but.... Zilfin is best and then urbaz second.

 

This is KO for me, fly high and shoot. 

If you can land behind Arkos even better. 

Take some point here and there. 

 

The skywarden don't fit the profile. With 9 inch range on the pistol. 

 

[GrimDork]

Skywardens could be useful when part of the Escort wing, especially when played with Zilfin, as they could hitch in hero phase then still move into range for their pistols in the movement phase. Generally I prefer Endrinriggers but Skywardens can have a place.

@GanigumoI would probably go for 6 wardens, and 2 x 6 riggers instead, tho maybe running 12 would be sensible for the gold. 

[Dejnar]

Wrong

Edited November 15, 2020 by Dejnar
Wrong place

[Beliman]

Wish-list time!!! Broken Realms was released this past weekend and we know that all armies are going to recieve some type of "new things" (maybe miniatures, maybe just one batallion,...), so what do you want to see for our beloved flying dwarfs?

• My wish is to have anything that could change our game-play (don't get me wrong, I love to fly and shoot, but maybe we could explore a bit what Barak-Zon tried to offer...).
  • Brainstorming: We know what GW are capable to do (Har Kuron, create a new set of battle traits for SCE, new warscrolls, etc...). So I could see a new Battle Traits that don't follow our Code (nor aether-gold) for Mhornar. Maybe if Barak-Mhornar recieve a new set of Battle Traits (breaking with the KO society and going full pirates), we could see the rise of a new Barak to take the empty sits from the Geldraad? Maybe a batallion with a new hero in it? I could see a new Grundstock Hero too, I love the super-mercenary feeling of that company.

Desember brings a new Big Faq, what do you like to see?

• Nerfs: Fly High and maybe shooting should be capped (I suppose that AoS 3.0 will nerf shooting btw). I can see  Gunhaulers at 140-150 and maybe even cut out the range of Endrinriggers pistols. 
• Buffs: Skywardens needs a purpose (maybe some charge bonus and pistols need range, they are our ambushing units that follow our ships!). Brokk needs something too, but I don't know what.
• Reworks: Batallions!!! We only have one batallion that can take heroes, and it's spammed to try to take first turn. Maybe they need to change them a bit and give other batallions the oportunity to take Heroes? Btw,  Admiral needs a rework, not sure if a FAQ could help him.

[Boar]

28 minutes ago, Beliman said:

Nerfs: Fly High

First how would you do that? Second why, it would be absolutely one of worst decision I can imagine when it comes to changes to any battletome. If it is unreliable (activates on roll) you can't really plan anything and playing KO is just gambling.

[Beliman]

20 hours ago, Boar said:

First how would you do that? Second why, it would be absolutely one of worst decision I can imagine when it comes to changes to any battletome. If it is unreliable (activates on roll) you can't really plan anything and playing KO is just gambling.

You should ask GW. I have only some random thoughts :

1. My first thought is to make  High Fly a normal move and not a re-setup (Disengage and Retreat would have a meaning in the Fly High description, and flying units could try to stop an skyvessel from shoot other units).
   1. 2. If point 1 is accepted, make it clear that Fly is part of Fly High move (I mean... it's in the name!!).
2. Another option is to give -1 to hit for garrisoned units if they shoot from an Skyvessel that used the Fly High in the previous movement phase (maybe the admiral could have something to stop that, at least it could be useful 🤣).
3. A crazy one: use refined aether-gold tokens (could be the same as Aether-gold shares even)  and use it to Fly High.

I could go on, but I need to focus on other IRL things. Btw, my post was about what you want to see nerfed/buffed/whatever (I just answered myself) and your wishlist for Broken Realms.

Sorry, I can't answer your questions. It seems that people dismiss everything that is not what they like/think.

Edited November 17, 2020 by Beliman

[stratigo]

3 hours ago, Beliman said:

You should ask GW. I have only some random thoughts :

1. My first thought is to make  High Fly a normal move and not a re-setup (Disengage and Retreat would have a meaning in the Fly High description, and flying units could try to stop an skyvessel from shoot other units).
   1. 2. If point 1 is accepted, make it clear that Fly is part of Fly High move (I mean... it's in the name!!).
2. Another option is to give -1 to hit for garrisoned units if they shoot from an Skyvessel that used the Fly High in the previous movement phase (maybe the admiral could have something to stop that, at least it could be useful 🤣).
3. A crazy one: use refined aether-gold tokens (could be the same as Aether-gold shares even)  and use it to Fly High.

I could go on, but I need to focus on other IRL things. Btw, my post was about what you want to see nerfed/buffed/whatever (I just answered myself) and your wishlist for Broken Realms.

 

 

 

The first nerf makes everyone play the most excessive alpha strike list because you can't risk ever getting into combat. This does the opposite of what you want in balancing KO. It makes the best list on;y slightly worse, and kills all slightly less competitive lists.

 

The second is just a nerf for nerf's sake

 

The third does the same as the first.

 

 

 

The army only works at all because fly high. Nerf fly high and you break the army. Think up better nerfs than fly high nerfs. Fly high is the heart of the army and fine as is. 

 

If you want to nerf KO, nerf what is making them excessive. Which isn't Fly high. It is out of sequence fly high and throwing WLV. If you deleted zilfin and the bottle, KO would be mid tier. You nerf fly high hard enough and you may as well scoop your models into a trashcan.

[Ekrund Oath Splitters]

Dawi!! What would be the best mission for KO? In March next year I am attending a league where each player will need to play each other player in a home and away setting (like football). The home player will pick the mission, and each player will need to fight a home and away game for each player in the event.

The armies are 1000pts and mine is as follows:

Barak Urbaz

Endrinmaster with Endrinharness: Great Tinkerer, Aetherquartz Monolens

Grundstok Gunhauler with Sky Cannon

Grundstok Gunhauler with Sky Cannon

10 Grundstok Thunderers: 2 x Decksweepers, 2 x Aethercannons, 1 x Grundstok Mortar

3 Gryocopters with Steam Guns (allies)

Arkanaut Frigate with Heavy Sky Cannon and Breath of Morgrim

Any advice would be great! I'm pretty stumped on what mission would be best for my KO force.

[Beliman]

 

52 minutes ago, stratigo said:

If you want to nerf KO, nerf what is making them excessive. Which isn't Fly high. It is out of sequence fly high and throwing WLV. If you deleted zilfin and the bottle, KO would be mid tier. You nerf fly high hard enough and you may as well scoop your models into a trashcan.

Dont' get mad at me, but I give some random thoughts (becasue @Boar asked for some examples) and you dismiss them (imo, with poor arguments) and your main solution is to remove Zilfin and the Spell in the bottle? I mean, a bit harsh...

 

I copy&paste what I was talking about if you want to participate in a constructive way:
 

Quote

what do you want to see for our beloved flying dwarfs?

Desember brings a new Big Faq, what do you like to see?

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by Beliman
Copy&paste

[zilberfrid]

8 minutes ago, Beliman said:

Dont' get mad at me, but I give some random thoughts (becasue @Boar asked for some examples) and you dismiss them (imo, with poor arguments) and your main solution is to remove Zilfin and the Spell in the bottle? I mean, a bit harsh...

I think it was more about dealing at the appropriate scope.

If ranged weapons are an issue across AoS, KO isn't the place to fix it, but AoS as a whole is.

If Warp Lightning is overly oppressive in a KO army, the whole of KO (like nerf to Fly High) isn't the place to fix it, but the artifact is.

If Zilfin's movement far outpaces the power of other skyports' abilities, it should be fixed at Zilfin's level, not at the entirety of KO.

[stratigo]

6 minutes ago, Beliman said:

 

Dont' get mad at me, but I give some random thoughts (becasue @Boar asked for some examples) and you dismiss them (imo, with poor arguments) and your main solution is to remove Zilfin and the Spell in the bottle? I mean, a bit harsh...

 

I copy&paste what I was talking about if you want to participate in a constructive way:
 

 

I dismissed them because they are poor ideas.

 

Making fly high a move means it is incredibly easy to shut down flying high. Which means it becomes unreliable in most matchups after the first turn, which means you double down on an alpha strike because you no longer have the same flexibility to escape combat as you used to. You make our mobility less reliable and you encourage doubling down on strategies that require less mobile after the first turn. EG, the strategy that is making KO perform so well in the first place, being the zilfin drop, where you seek to cripple the opponent turn one with overwhelming firepower. Your nerf hurts people not taking the most optimal list more than it hurts that list, doing the opposite of what a nerf should do.

 

Removing zilfin and spell in a bottle is better for the health of the army than nerfing fly highs. 

 

That said, I don't want KO to just be mid tier because today's mid tier is tomorrow's trash with how battletome bloat plays out. I don't think that KO really need to be nerfed at all honestly. People are gonna start to tech anti shooting more and more and most new battletomes come with power increases and I don't find where KO are to be as abusive as where, say Slaanesh was when it first dropped. But if you have to nerf KO, you want to target that nerf to the lists that are being problematic. Not literally the entire army. I would not be shocked to find them changing the zilfin rule to not allow fly high. I am not sure if they can actually do anything to spell in a bottle that doesn't make it pointless, so either it stays or is functionally removed.

[Beliman]

8 minutes ago, stratigo said:

I dismissed them because they are poor ideas.

 

Making fly high a move means it is incredibly easy to shut down flying high. Which means it becomes unreliable in most matchups after the first turn, which means you double down on an alpha strike because you no longer have the same flexibility to escape combat as you used to. You make our mobility less reliable and you encourage doubling down on strategies that require less mobile after the first turn. EG, the strategy that is making KO perform so well in the first place, being the zilfin drop, where you seek to cripple the opponent turn one with overwhelming firepower. Your nerf hurts people not taking the most optimal list more than it hurts that list, doing the opposite of what a nerf should do.

 

Removing zilfin and spell in a bottle is better for the health of the army than nerfing fly highs. 

 

That said, I don't want KO to just be mid tier because today's mid tier is tomorrow's trash with how battletome bloat plays out. I don't think that KO really need to be nerfed at all honestly. People are gonna start to tech anti shooting more and more and most new battletomes come with power increases and I don't find where KO are to be as abusive as where, say Slaanesh was when it first dropped. But if you have to nerf KO, you want to target that nerf to the lists that are being problematic. Not literally the entire army. I would not be shocked to find them changing the zilfin rule to not allow fly high. I am not sure if they can actually do anything to spell in a bottle that doesn't make it pointless, so either it stays or is functionally removed.

You don' get it.. nobody cares if you think that my ideas are poor.

Just explain your own as @zilberfrid did before your post.

 

Edited November 16, 2020 by Beliman