AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion

[stratigo]

The ability to toss a WLV and the Zilfin first turn alpha.

[Phasteon]

18 hours ago, Badlander86 said:

Well, this is concerning:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/10/22/metawatch-warhammer-age-of-sigmar-1-list-building-with-dan-street/

 

A nerf in the works? 

I dont think a nerf is necessary, people need time to adapt. 

KO feel and play like they always should have, the oppressive part mostly comes from positioning issues / failed target priority. 

In my experience people try to bring down the Ironclad with units not made for the job and then get destroyed while I heal my ship back up. 

 

KO have very few units, bring down what you can and dont focus on the tankiest model if you cant bring it down anyway

[Mcthew]

1 hour ago, Phasteon said:

I dont think a nerf is necessary, people need time to adapt. 

KO feel and play like they always should have, the oppressive part mostly comes from positioning issues / failed target priority. 

In my experience people try to bring down the Ironclad with units not made for the job and then get destroyed while I heal my ship back up. 

 

KO have very few units, bring down what you can and dont focus on the tankiest model if you cant bring it down anyway

Maybe not necessary but almost a certainty judging by how GW applies 'balance', if you can call it that.

I reckon all it needs is a thematic cap on 'fly high.' Make it a 'chance' ability: say you can 'fly high' on a roll of 3+, or 2+ if there is an additional navigator on board or something. Introduces a further element of risk to tactics. Might not be a bad thing you know?

(That way you could always fly high even if you are overburdened or with 1 wound remaining - but you need to roll a 6 tho. If you really want to go for thematic, a fail means the boat is lost in the aether and cannot be redeployed on the table that turn and needs to roll again in the following turns or be considered 'slain.')

 

Edited October 23, 2020 by Mcthew
It got me thinking 🤔

[Badlander86]

1 hour ago, Mcthew said:

Maybe not necessary but almost a certainty judging by how GW applies 'balance', if you can call it that.

I reckon all it needs is a thematic cap on 'fly high.' Make it a 'chance' ability: say you can 'fly high' on a roll of 3+, or 2+ if there is an additional navigator on board or something. Introduces a further element of risk to tactics. Might not be a bad thing you know?

(That way you could always fly high even if you are overburdened or with 1 wound remaining - but you need to roll a 6 tho. If you really want to go for thematic, a fail means the boat is lost in the aether and cannot be redeployed on the table that turn and needs to roll again in the following turns or be considered 'slain.')

 

A cap on Fly High is as good as bringing KO back to its previous Battletome status. Put it bluntly, if other factions are able to deepstrike with no penalties, Fly High should not be a problem unless now other factions need to roll to see if their deepstrike is successful. 

 

To me, while I'd be sad to lose the opportunity to cast WLV (after already ordering a set...), either changing Zilfin's one trick or limiting Spell in a Bottle's choices would be the obvious nerf.  Again, with supposedly 25 events covered, factions like Lumineth not even made widely available and a pandemic, the "meta report" seems a little premature...but I'd be ready for a nerf regardless.

[Phasteon]

4 hours ago, Mcthew said:

(That way you could always fly high even if you are overburdened or with 1 wound remaining - but you need to roll a 6 tho. If you really want to go for thematic, a fail means the boat is lost in the aether and cannot be redeployed on the table that turn and needs to roll again in the following turns or be considered 'slain.')

Sure, losing 1000+ points for a turn or entirely because of a single failed roll would make for balanced and fun games...

 

I think the designers did a perfect job as it is

 

[Sttufe]

Fly High is certainly good, and it brings us to a competitive status, but even nerfing it slightly would be detrimental to our capabilities, as almost all of our tactics surround that ability. 

Edited October 23, 2020 by Sttufe

[Mcthew]

So no love for cappin' Fly High?

Getting the feeling KO are a one-trick pony. 😁

Seriously though, a nerf is in the offing so which would you rather nerf, Fly High or shooting? Me, I'd go for Fly High as I dont rely on it so much. I'd rather fly not so high than hit like a wet-flannel like in them oldendays of AoS 1.0. 

I mean, ratling guns used to hit harder than a frigate, and that ain't right.

[Sttufe]

22 minutes ago, Mcthew said:

So no love for cappin' Fly High?

Getting the feeling KO are a one-trick pony. 😁

Seriously though, a nerf is in the offing so which would you rather nerf, Fly High or shooting? Me, I'd go for Fly High as I dont rely on it so much. I'd rather fly not so high than hit like a wet-flannel like in them oldendays of AoS 1.0. 

I mean, ratling guns used to hit harder than a frigate, and that ain't right.

I think that if you were to cap fly high, they would have to buff some other tactic, or introduce more miniatures to make it not a one trick pony. On top of that, I don't think they will nerf the ship, as they are our centerpieces, and that's what they want to sell the most of.

[Arzalyn]

55 minutes ago, Mcthew said:

Seriously though, a nerf is in the offing so which would you rather nerf, Fly High or shooting? Me, I'd go for Fly High as I dont rely on it so much. I'd rather fly not so high than hit like a wet-flannel like in them oldendays of AoS 1.0. 

Zilfin seens to be the prevalent sky-port if you go by their article. It woul make more sense to nerf the pre-game move it gives or even make spell in a bottle more restrictive (like only allowing the malign sorcery ones).

[Bululu]

While i doubt we need to get into nerfs just yet, as i said before, the meta is in a very premature state with very little count of events and with the events been small. But in any case, if nerf is needed it would be on the WLV or the spell in the bottle or the zilfin one trick to place the endless, its just a alpha list that could need to be addressed on the rest we are fine

[Phasteon]

They could fix the Zilfin/Bottle „problem“ (if thats even the case) by wording the bottle „at the start of the herophase“ 

 

This way no first turn move + bottle. 

Why should they though as it would just unnecessarily delete a cool artifact/tactic

[Beliman]

On 10/24/2020 at 10:18 AM, Phasteon said:

They could fix the Zilfin/Bottle „problem“ (if thats even the case) by wording the bottle „at the start of the herophase“ 

100% agree.

We could see a bit more Mhornar to do the same trick or even Urbaz with an Admiral with Fleetmaster in a Gunhauler/ Frigatte.

A bit of variety is always welcome.

Edited November 2, 2020 by Beliman

[nissefika]

If you want to make ko more balance it's the iron sky command you want to nerf with 50p or so. Going first when you want it is what is the winning strategi. It's all dependent on that. Everything else is not a problem. 

But I don't think ko is a reel problem lumineth is why better. 

[Malakithe]

On 10/23/2020 at 12:14 PM, Mcthew said:

So no love for cappin' Fly High?

Getting the feeling KO are a one-trick pony. 😁

Seriously though, a nerf is in the offing so which would you rather nerf, Fly High or shooting? Me, I'd go for Fly High as I dont rely on it so much. I'd rather fly not so high than hit like a wet-flannel like in them oldendays of AoS 1.0. 

I mean, ratling guns used to hit harder than a frigate, and that ain't right.

The faction is based solely on ships and shooting. Hindering any of those puts KO back down to where they were 2ish years ago...completely unplayable. You cant nerf a ship based mechanic when everything is about ships. You cant nerf shooting when 98% of your faction is shooting.

When the tourney scene starts to show one type of dominant list and nothing else then GW needs to look at what makes that list nuts and why nothing else is comparable. 

[Beliman]

Our prayers have been heard. Our God-like miniature is here!!!

Hail to the King!!!

 

[dirkdragonslayer]

32 minutes ago, Beliman said:

Our prayers have been heard. Our God-like miniature is here!!!

Hail to the King!!!

 

Praise be to Jakkob Bugmansson, heir to the Bugman family legacy! Neither grobi nor orruk nor aelf nor End of the World stays this family from their ale brewing craft. I don't play KO, but this is super tempting to grab as an Admiral to start. Bugman's Brewing Barges, with the arkanauts painted in the old blue and red of Bugman's Rangers. Also this is the first KO without their helmet which is pretty neat.

Also I really appreciate that he isn't christmas themed. I loved the Red Gobbo model, but I had to do a lot of kitbashing and sculpting to make him fit with my 40k Orks.

[zilberfrid]

I will absolutely get one of these!

EDIT: the older Bugman is currently in use as the dwarf of a friend of mine.

EDIT2: I will get one, depending on the price. That's a healthy caveat considering recent GW pricing.

Edited November 1, 2020 by zilberfrid

[dirkdragonslayer]

21 hours ago, zilberfrid said:

I will absolutely get one of these!

EDIT: the older Bugman is currently in use as the dwarf of a friend of mine.

EDIT2: I will get one, depending on the price. That's a healthy caveat considering recent GW pricing.

His leaked price seems to be 25 Euros, which for Americans would be 35-40$.

[zilberfrid]

1 hour ago, dirkdragonslayer said:

His leaked price seems to be 25 Euros, which for Americans would be 35-40$.

25 euros is about the price I was expecting. Still steep for a single mini, but it's not too harsh.

[Kramer]

11 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

25 euros is about the price I was expecting. Still steep for a single mini, but it's not too harsh.

At least it's not a 33% price hike vs other small hero models 😂. All of them 20-25 euro. 
(which seems to be the current norm)

[zilberfrid]

18 minutes ago, Kramer said:

At least it's not a 33% price hike vs other small hero models 😂. All of them 20-25 euro. 
(which seems to be the current norm)

To be honest, I do think it's quite a lot. 25 euros is 40 Perry infantry guys and 5 left for a can of primer. Anything over 25 for an infantry sized mini is ridiculous.

[Kramer]

1 hour ago, zilberfrid said:

To be honest, I do think it's quite a lot. 25 euros is 40 Perry infantry guys and 5 left for a can of primer. Anything over 25 for an infantry sized mini is ridiculous.

25 euro’s for an exclusive, limited sculpt doesn’t seem that much to me. Could be 20. But 25 is fair as well. 

They can’t sell a lot of the model because of its limited run so the design cost need to be higher per sale. It’s a rarer model, so again a little more pricy. And even if you get it for play you only need one. 

imo it doesn’t compare to units. But you are rightThat , you can only spend the money once and if the Perry infanterist gives you more fun per dollar. Go for it 👍

but personally I have happily paid 50 euro for models like this on eBay:

and he’s worth every single penny. 

[zilberfrid]

See,I think GW is not badly priced for the quality... for infantry models. A box of Arkanauts or Greatswords gives you so many extra bits to customize and use on converstion.

That's wildly different for infantry heroes. Not only are they 6 times the price of an Arkanaut, they don't have any customisation. Well, the head then, in this one.

I don't even see the need for plastic for these models, because if I don't have options, what's the point?

They are good sculpts, but apart from this one that fits my beer themed Skywarden, Gunhauler and Gyrocopter, I don't see me getting another one.

[frostfire]

Had a few games myself using the KO and try different style of list such as balloon heavy list and the thunderers ironclad list, the model count in these list is quite low. So it makes me curious when looking at some of the tournament results that the KO defeated some real horde army like skinks spam seraphon and such.

[dmorley21]

What model do you all think it is fair to use Jakkob Bugmansson as?

I could see him as an Admiral or Aether Khemist.