AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion

[nine7six]

How are people reading that you can disembark after a fly high? It’s in the warscrolls under flying transport you can’t join or leave if the model has moved or flown high in same phase?

[Baron Wastelands]

1 hour ago, nine7six said:

How are people reading that you can disembark after a fly high? It’s in the warscrolls under flying transport you can’t join or leave if the model has moved or flown high in same phase?

The iron sky attack squadron specifically allows you to disembark arkanaut companies from frigates after a move. There are two questions, however:

a) can they also embark at the start of the turn and then move and disembark (I suggest the answer to this is no, as they would be “double moving” as both embarking and disembarking count as a movement substitution for the arkanauts specifically)

b)  can they replace the word “move” in the iron sky attack squadron rule with the words “fly high”, and thus disembark after a fly high. (I suggest the answer is yes, as fly high replaces a normal move, and I believe that in general that any rule that applies to a move applies to a substitution, unless stated otherwise? I concede this is open to interpretation though, and might need a clarification).

[Beliman]

56 minutes ago, Baron Wastelands said:

b)  can they replace the word “move” in the iron sky attack squadron rule with the words “fly high”, and thus disembark after a fly high. (I suggest the answer is yes, as fly high replaces a normal move, and I believe that in general that any rule that applies to a move applies to a substitution, unless stated otherwise? I concede this is open to interpretation though, and might need a clarification).

Maybe I missundesrstood the rule, but  you need a "move" to disembark before or after, with the Iron Sky Squadron: "ARKANAUT COMPANY units from this battalion can leave an ARKANAUT FRIGATE from the same battalion either before or after it has moved." 

Imo, the High Fly is not tagged as a "move". It's an ability that  instead of making a move (that's the trigger for the batallion) you can "remove this model from the battlefield and...." bla bla bla.

56 minutes ago, Baron Wastelands said:

a) can they also embark at the start of the turn and then move and disembark (I suggest the answer to this is no, as they would be “double moving” as both embarking and disembarking count as a movement substitution for the arkanauts specifically)

The Iron Sky Squadron's ability doesn't have any "that counts as a movement...". Maybe you can embark (arkanaut move), move the frigatte and then use the ability from the Batallion to disembark? Could that be legal? Plis...say yes....

Edited February 25, 2020 by Beliman

[Baron Wastelands]

 

57 minutes ago, Beliman said:

Maybe I missundesrstood the rule, but  you need a "move" to disembark before or after, with the Iron Sky Squadron: "ARKANAUT COMPANY units from this battalion can leave an ARKANAUT FRIGATE from the same battalion either before or after it has moved." 

Imo, the High Fly is not tagged as a "move". It's an ability that  instead of making a move (that's the trigger for the batallion) you can "remove this model from the battlefield and...." bla bla bla.

The Iron Sky Squadron's ability doesn't have any "that counts as a movement...". Maybe you can embark (arkanaut move), move the frigatte and then use the ability from the Batallion to disembark? Could that be legal? Plis...say yes....

To be fair, I think that’s an equally consistent interpretation. I can certainly see the argument from both sides. 

I guess my understanding follows this logic: the squadron rule says I can [make a normal] move and then disembark. The fly high rule says I can teleport instead of making a normal move. Therefore I should be able to fly high and disembark. The disembarking isn’t conditional on moving (only), but is permitted after, which is the amendment to normal rules allowed by the squadron rule.

However, if you treat (both cases - fly high and disembark) as an independent ability rather than a substitution, then your interpretation is preferable. In the latter case at least, there isn’t however a specific disembark rule, you are just leaving  a garrison, which explicitly “counts as their move”. Although the wording for joining a garrison (what we refer to as embarking, though again that isn’t a different rule) is like the wording for fly high, I.e. “instead of making a normal move”! If those are equivalent, I would want to argue that fly high also “counts as a move”.

 

Edited February 25, 2020 by Baron Wastelands

[Beliman]

3 minutes ago, Baron Wastelands said:

 

To be fair, I think that’s an equally consistent interpretation. I can certainly see the argument from both sides. 

I guess my understanding follows this logic: the squadron rule says I can move and then disembark. The fly high rule says I can teleport instead of a normal move. The disembarking isn’t conditional on moving (only), but is permitted after, which is the amendment to normal rules allowed by the squadron rule.

However, if you treat (both cases - fly high and disembark) as an independent ability rather than a substitution, then your interpretation is preferable. In the latter case at least, there isn’t however a specific disembark rule, you are just leaving  a garrison, which explicitly “counts as their move”. Although the wording for joining a garrison (what we refer to as embarking, though again that isn’t a different rule) is like the wording for fly high, I.e. “instead of making a normal move”! If those are equivalent, I would want to argue that fly high also “counts as a move”.

 

Maybe you are right. But there is THAT faq (that wasn't even about us btw...) that suggest that High Fly is not a "move".

Q: Some abilities allow you to remove a unit from the battlefield and set it up again, and say that this ‘counts as their move for the movement phase’ (or words to that effect). Do these units count as having made a move for the purposes of any other 
rules or abilities?
A: No, it simply restricts them from making a move later on.

 

[Baron Wastelands]

4 minutes ago, Beliman said:

Maybe you are right. But there is THAT faq (that wasn't even about us btw...) that suggest that High Fly is not a "move".

Q: Some abilities allow you to remove a unit from the battlefield and set it up again, and say that this ‘counts as their move for the movement phase’ (or words to that effect). Do these units count as having made a move for the purposes of any other 
rules or abilities?
A: No, it simply restricts them from making a move later on.

 

Good point 😁

In That case, I don’t know what to think about the embark-disembark in the same turn! The embark counts as a move, precluding a move later on. But then disembarking doesn’t count as a move for the purposes of any other rules or abilities (like that one?) though it does also restrict a move later on!? 

Shall we just say no to both? 😂

[Borsuk]

Hey, I have a question about mhornar’s opportunistic privateers. How do you understand the rule: I am allowed to make a move after the set up, but before the first round begins,  but does it mean that I need to move before round order is decided, or after? If we could make it after, that would be awesome.

[Chumphammer]

Anyone ever run a Knight-Incantor with the Dais endless spell?

Could have him cast it back board turn 1, then gives you a 12" flying Mobile 2+ AS unit that has 2 dispels (1 auto) and 3 x reach 2 attacks (3+/3+/Rnd -1, D3)

170pts

That or 2 Runelords. 90pts each for a +2 to dispel and unbind 

 

[ledha]

It say before the first round begins, but not before the roll-off or anything like that. So i'd go for the most simple option : after the roll is decided, but before any other action.

 

[ZLee Syn]

What do you think about this:

Navigator (autodispell)

Chemist

Runesmither

3x10 arkanaut + 3xfregate in batalion

Gunhauler with compartment

20 hearthguard berzerkers

 

[zilberfrid]

I have read a bit through the old Duardin warscrolls, and Flame cannon (1-2d6 mortal wounds) but especially Grudge Throwers (up to 3/3/-2/6 reroll wounds and hit, can shoot invisible, range 40') and the Anvil of Doom (8 wounds, 2 dispells at +2 and d3 mortal wound output for 140 pts) all seem quite nice.

Maybe Barak Thryng anyway?

[ThoughtfulUmbra]

2 hours ago, Beliman said:

Maybe you are right. But there is THAT faq (that wasn't even about us btw...) that suggest that High Fly is not a "move".

Q: Some abilities allow you to remove a unit from the battlefield and set it up again, and say that this ‘counts as their move for the movement phase’ (or words to that effect). Do these units count as having made a move for the purposes of any other 
rules or abilities?
A: No, it simply restricts them from making a move later on.

 

I think the converse to this is are you required to move to disembark.  If a frigate moves 0" can the units inside disembark?  Fly high may not count as moving but that shouldn't restrict the unit to not be able to disembark.

[Beliman]

5 hours ago, ThoughtfulUmbra said:

I think the converse to this is are you required to move to disembark.  If a frigate moves 0" can the units inside disembark?  Fly high may not count as moving but that shouldn't restrict the unit to not be able to disembark.

I would say yes. A 0" move is still a move, but I'm not sure why you want to take the Iron Sky Squadron to do that. Your arkanauts could leave the Frigatte (because you didn't move). Is there any trick in doing a 0" move? 

[hammer49]

Do KO work better in a cities of sigmar army than they do on their own?

[zilberfrid]

36 minutes ago, hammer49 said:

Do KO work better in a cities of sigmar army than they do on their own?

Differently.

They can get +1 to hit and wound in Tempest, as well as spells which is huge, but they are not as prevalent there (only 1 in 4) and do not get the bonusses or battallions from KO.

[hammer49]

9 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

Differently.

They can get +1 to hit and wound in Tempest, as well as spells which is huge, but they are not as prevalent there (only 1 in 4) and do not get the bonusses or battallions from KO.

Ok thanks for the reply.

But you could fill in the weaknesses inherent in the book?

[5kaven5lave]

8 hours ago, ZLee Syn said:

What do you think about this:

Navigator (autodispell)

Chemist

Runesmither

3x10 arkanaut + 3xfregate in batalion

Gunhauler with compartment

20 hearthguard berzerkers

 

Think this sounds amazing. Give it a game and let us know?

[zilberfrid]

1 hour ago, hammer49 said:

Ok thanks for the reply.

But you could fill in the weaknesses inherent in the book?

Kharadron can fill weaknesses inherent in the Cities book. You could try to make a mostly Kharadron army from it, and it would not have the same weaknesses, but the units must be huge with a lot of small cities units, so it wouldn't work the same.

If you want a Cities list that at least looks like Kharadron, you could try this:

Hurricanum w wizard (too much of an auto include) with Thermalrider cloak

Runelord

Battlemage (Hyish)

Longbeards

Longbeards

Irondrakes

Gyrocopter

Gyrocopter

Gyrocopter

Gyrocopter

12 Endrinriggers

10 Thunderers

Frigate

 

No idea if it'll be good. It won't be a Kharadron army, but a TE army with Kharadron. Maybe go with a few Gyrobombers to make the most of movement and make the Battlemage into a Cogsmith.

Edited February 26, 2020 by zilberfrid

[Dr Ben]

2 hours ago, zilberfrid said:

Differently.

They can get +1 to hit and wound in Tempest, as well as spells which is huge, but they are not as prevalent there (only 1 in 4) and do not get the bonusses or battallions from KO.

 

2 hours ago, hammer49 said:

Ok thanks for the reply.

But you could fill in the weaknesses inherent in the book?

As per Zilberfrid, individual KO units can do more damage output with the buffs in tempests eye. So if by inherent weakness you mean the lack of hit/attack buffs and you want to build a list around an ironclad (or two) hitting on 1+ or a big block of riggers with +1 attack  and +1 hit then go tempests eye. If you want low drops, gold, shenanigans and/or quirky but powerful item choices go KO. 

If by inherent weaknesses you mean the lack of melee anvil, then you would have to run a cities list with so little KO that it's becomes a Cities list with some included KO. Which is fun, just doesn't seem like what you're after. You would probably be better adding some fyreslayers to a thryng list. 

The main thing KO gives you that can't be done by another Cities unit is flying high. If you see lack of teleporting as a significant weakness for Cities you can add that. 

[ZLee Syn]

3 hours ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Think this sounds amazing. Give it a game and let us know?

Sadly I  dont have models and I even never played KO. I just created a list what I thought might be good and wanted your opinion. I quite like it but dont know if I will ever play KO. Considering it. Thats why I posted it here. To get feedback. 

I like creating lists. Some of them will be used but most of them just stays as ideas.

 

Edit: But since my friend like it alot too I might give it a try with proxing

Edited February 26, 2020 by ZLee Syn

[sal4m4nd3r]

3 hours ago, Dr Ben said:

The main thing KO gives you that can't be done by another Cities unit is flying high. If you see lack of teleporting as a significant weakness for Cities you can add that. 

Pardon me while I blow your mind, but you can fly high in a CoS army. That’s a warscroll ability, not an allegiance ability. Same for embarking MARINE units. So you can have 15 thunderers in an ironclad teleporting around blasting things in a CoS army. 

[ZLee Syn]

5 minutes ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

Pardon me while I blow your mind, but you can fly high in a CoS army. That’s a warscroll ability, not an allegiance ability. Same for embarking MARINE units. So you can have 15 thunderers in an ironclad teleporting around blasting things in a CoS army. 

Thats what he said. He said that CoS cannot teleport so adding KO ships fix that 

[Dr Ben]

2 hours ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

Pardon me while I blow your mind, but you can fly high in a CoS army. That’s a warscroll ability, not an allegiance ability. Same for embarking MARINE units. So you can have 15 thunderers in an ironclad teleporting around blasting things in a CoS army. 

 

2 hours ago, ZLee Syn said:

Thats what he said. He said that CoS cannot teleport so adding KO ships fix that 

Thanks for clarifying on my behalf. It seems I wasn't as clear as I thought I was with the initial comment. 

[DavionStar]

Hey folks, this might be asking for a lot but I'm having a lot of trouble making a 1k list that I like. I'm always left with 40-80 points to spare and nothing to put in it. I have come up with some 2k lists I like and want to try, but I don't have the models yet. And I'd like to try to get playing at my local shop before then.

So...if anyone's willing to help me, I'll list here what models I currently have, both built and not. And maybe something will click? For Sky-Port I'm not super picky for this small list. Maybe Zon, Thryng or Urbaz. But any's fine. I can use the ones not built, I just figured I'd separate them.

Assembled
30x Arkanauts
9x Endrinriggers
10x Thunderers
1 of each Hero including Endrinmaster on Balloon
1 Frigate
1 Gunhauler
Thundrik's Privateers (could also just have Thundrik himself as a second Khemist)

Owned but not Assembled
10x Arkanauts
6x Skyriggers (planning to make them Wardens)
1 Gunhauler (Technically assembled but in a few pieces waiting priming)
1 Ironclad
5x Hearthguard (Fyreslayers)

 

So if anyone's willing to try to help me make a list out of these, great. If not, that's ok. I'll keep plugging away at it either way.

[Cauthon]

36 minutes ago, DavionStar said:

Hey folks, this might be asking for a lot but I'm having a lot of trouble making a 1k list that I like. I'm always left with 40-80 points to spare and nothing to put in it. I have come up with some 2k lists I like and want to try, but I don't have the models yet. And I'd like to try to get playing at my local shop before then.

So...if anyone's willing to help me, I'll list here what models I currently have, both built and not. And maybe something will click? For Sky-Port I'm not super picky for this small list. Maybe Zon, Thryng or Urbaz. But any's fine. I can use the ones not built, I just figured I'd separate them.

Assembled
30x Arkanauts
9x Endrinriggers
10x Thunderers
1 of each Hero including Endrinmaster on Balloon
1 Frigate
1 Gunhauler
Thundrik's Privateers (could also just have Thundrik himself as a second Khemist)

Owned but not Assembled
10x Arkanauts
6x Skyriggers (planning to make them Wardens)
1 Gunhauler (Technically assembled but in a few pieces waiting priming)
1 Ironclad
5x Hearthguard (Fyreslayers)

 

So if anyone's willing to try to help me make a list out of these, great. If not, that's ok. I'll keep plugging away at it either way.

Zilfin 

 

endrinmaster with dirigible- tough as old boots, ocular staff (on weapons battery)

frigate- cannon, omniscope

arkos x 10

arkos x 10

gunhauler- torpedo

endrinriggers x 6 drill cannons and volley guns. 

 

1000 points. 

1 unit of arkos to deploy on home objective, everyone else kites like crazy, play the ranged game, drop off arkos on objective with the frigate once the enemy is shot up enough. 

 

Endrinmaster, gunhauler and endrinriggers should be a pretty significant flanking force at 1000 points. 

 

Go forth and profit