AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion

[Tidings]

3 minutes ago, kozokus said:

I am not sold on the spell-in-bottle thing. You end up spending 140-190 points for a one time effect that will probably get dispelled and cannot be recast again or can backfire or do nothing at all.  Isn't better to spend your points on a gunhauler?

Warp Lightning Vortex immediately wrecks your opponent's plans just by existing. There's nothing they can do to stop it, so they have to either deploy completely differently than they want, or take the first turn to spread out, or suffer the insane damage and movement penalties. That's so much more value than a single Gunhauler, of which you should already have 1 or 2. You're not adding anything new to your list with +1 Gunhauler, and the damage output from 1 over the course of a game is still less than a well-used Warp Lightning Vortex. 

[kozokus]

8 minutes ago, Tidings said:

Warp Lightning Vortex immediately wrecks your opponent's plans just by existing.

The ennemy already deploy weirdly just because you have infinite movement. Plus, the range of the vortex is too short and telegraphed and can easily be countered. Some armies barely bat an eye when eating a vortex and enjoy having a wizard at close range.  Plus you create a slow zone for your army where you cannot fly.

 

[Drofnum]

48 minutes ago, ArmyOfGrodd said:

Am I blind or did you only take one artefact?

Its interesting to see a list so heavy on the Arkanauts. Are you able to give a little run down on how each game went?

Idk why it's not in there but I took phosphorite bombs on the Endrinmaster. I'll write up the games when I get a chance, I basically just took what I had already painted but company are actually still quite good for their points. 

[Drofnum]

50 minutes ago, ArmyOfGrodd said:

 

Double post. 

Edited February 10, 2020 by Drofnum

[Ser_namron]

10 minutes ago, Phasteon said:

I played against similar armies and if I‘m able to take ARCHAON and Nagash out in 1 round of shooting (also –1 to hit, rerolling 6s to hit in case of Archaon, 6++ for Nagash) then a LoC should be no problem. 

Just because you did something, doesnt mean its the norm lol, thats anecdotal evidence at best. Im telling you a model with a 4+ ac who can get -1 to hit, and can easily be screened over 18" away is not a simple thing to delete and that is undeniable. Can it be done? Sure, in certain situations, liek the one i posted. But just cause it can be done doesnt mean you can just do it lol. 

also i would love to hear how you fared against Nagash and Archaon in general, havent had a chance to face them with KO yet. 

10 minutes ago, Phasteon said:

Also my point about fly high/ changehost teleport being the same is legit, as both are basically bound to wounds. And I say its much harder to stop a 3+ Save rerollable Ironclad with Riggers/Endrinmaster from flying high than killing off that 14 wounds 4+ Save model. 

I'll disagree, you're putting it in the most simple terms not accounting for distance/capacity/ wounds taken. The ships gotta be 12" away to get full shooting with your army, thats a massive difference alone than a LOC that can be anywhere on the field and still teleport anything. You cant just ignore the rest of the restrictions im presenting and relate the 2 abilities to wounds taken, thats entirely unfair. 

10 minutes ago, Phasteon said:

I agree with you on everything else, but not on Tzeentch teleportation being OP or ridiculous. 180 points are one of the most expensive battalions out there, my HGB get fight twice for 140 so you cant deny that they are paying a lot for it. Thats just fact, whether its worth it or not. 

look, the teleport is the cherry on top, the battalion itself is the problem. It creates an automatic 1 drop army with no restrictions outside of 1 model and 7 others. THATS why its so powerful. The teleport, is amazing too, it shores up the shortcomings of DoT units and creates some terrible interactions, but thats the secondary part of why its crazy. If you dont see the advantage of making any list you build a 1 drop army then idk what else to say. They get to decide the rules of engagement every game.  Your HGB battalion requires you to take 2/3 specific heroes and only 1 unit of HGB are affected by the ability. The tax is that you have to bring specified units, THATS the difference. Maybe you dont need that runesmiter, but guess what, you have to bring that 100 pt model, now your battalion effectively costs 240 pts. Its not linear, some battalions are better than other due to cost/ ability/ models required. Changehost has a fantastic ability, at no extra tax because you're picking everything you want to, unless you werent running a LoC, which is an amazing model and a must take in i'd say the majority of DoT armies.  So i dont think their paying alot for it, because the price of the battalion is still cheaper when you take everything you want versus taking a cheaper battalion but being forced into unit choices. 

[Chumphammer]

Ok, written my first KO list based on some ideas I have seen. Only own the Aetherwars box set atm so will be buying stuff, but this is what i am looking at:

(I wanted a good number of flying ships as that what appeals to me about the army)

Barak-Zilfin

General - Endrinmaster on Dirigible Suit, Great Tinkerer, Staff of ocular optimization 
Aetheric Navigator

Arkanaut Frigate - Cannon
Arkanaut Frigate - Cannon
10 Arkanaut Company - Light skyhook, skypike, volleygun, Captain
3 Endrinriggers. Skyhook, Mizzenmaster
Arkanaut Ironclad- Cannon, "The Last Word"

3 Gyrocopters
Grundstok Gunhauler - Drill Canon, Collapsible compartments 
5 Gunstok Thunderers (not sure on weapons yet)

So 10 drops, which I dont mind going second as can pull back on the board.

Thunderers go in the hauler, Arkanuaghts in the ironclad with command and riggers. 

anyway, feel free to comment or advise as I am a DOK player and never played /Played against KO

[Phasteon]

16 minutes ago, Ser_namron said:

Just because you did something, doesnt mean its the norm lol, thats anecdotal evidence at best. Im telling you a model with a 4+ ac who can get -1 to hit, and can easily be screened over 18" away is not a simple thing to delete and that is undeniable. Can it be done? Sure, in certain situations, liek the one i posted. But just cause it can be done doesnt mean you can just do it lol. 

also i would love to hear how you fared against Nagash and Archaon in general, havent had a chance to face them with KO yet. 

I'll disagree, you're putting it in the most simple terms not accounting for distance/capacity/ wounds taken. The ships gotta be 12" away to get full shooting with your army, thats a massive difference alone than a LOC that can be anywhere on the field and still teleport anything. You cant just ignore the rest of the restrictions im presenting and relate the 2 abilities to wounds taken, thats entirely unfair. 

look, the teleport is the cherry on top, the battalion itself is the problem. It creates an automatic 1 drop army with no restrictions outside of 1 model and 7 others. THATS why its so powerful. The teleport, is amazing too, it shores up the shortcomings of DoT units and creates some terrible interactions, but thats the secondary part of why its crazy. If you dont see the advantage of making any list you build a 1 drop army then idk what else to say. They get to decide the rules of engagement every game.  Your HGB battalion requires you to take 2/3 specific heroes and only 1 unit of HGB are affected by the ability. The tax is that you have to bring specified units, THATS the difference. Maybe you dont need that runesmiter, but guess what, you have to bring that 100 pt model, now your battalion effectively costs 240 pts. Its not linear, some battalions are better than other due to cost/ ability/ models required. Changehost has a fantastic ability, at no extra tax because you're picking everything you want to, unless you werent running a LoC, which is an amazing model and a must take in i'd say the majority of DoT armies.  So i dont think their paying alot for it, because the price of the battalion is still cheaper when you take everything you want versus taking a cheaper battalion but being forced into unit choices. 

Uff, I dont know where to start... 

1) My experience is anecdotal evidence but yours is not? I don‘t get it. 

2) I put it in simple terms? No, I compare the decisive restrictions with each other, namely wounds on the model that trigger the ability. Range doesnt matter because Tzeentch also needs to stay more than 9“ away and depending on which range you have to go closer or further away. You can split shots you know? You can shoot the carbines into a unit thats 12“ away, Thunderers with rifles inside at a unit thats 18“ away and Shrapnel shots at a unit thats 24“ away. Who is simplifying things now to fake a point? 

3) If you want to stop Tzeentch from teleporting you basically have to kill one model, if you want to stop KO from teleporting you have to deal huge damage to multiple models that have the same ability to be screened but that can also be healed. 

4) I am fully aware of the strength of a 1–drop battalion but having priority for first turn is not as game decisive as you make it look like. There are many disadvantages of going first, eg being doubleturned, holding back units to capture objectives.

5) You said you arent looking for an argument here, but your choice of words is heavily implying that you do. 

Things like:

– anecdotal evidence

– putting it in the most simple terms

– then i don‘t know what to say

Sound very disrespectful, as they suggest that in your opinion I don‘t know what I‘m talking about. You don‘t know me and I don‘t know you, but I can assure you that I play this game long and competitive enough to understand most things and know when people basically exaggerate things like you did.

Again, I‘m not disagreeing with your conclusion, just with the logic behind it, because it sounds hyperbolic as what you do is ignoring arguments like „possible counterplay /weakpoints“ and labeling them as basically „not the norm“, while putting everything in a vacuum or optimal situation to make your point sound more viable. 

 

Oh, and I‘m pretty sure its LoC + 8 units as the favorite number of Tzeentch is 9, no? Maybe you want bigger, costlier units and have to go for smaller units now to fill that required number of units. There you have it, tax. Not the worst one I admit, but its not like there would be no requirements.

[Drofnum]

So my setup was basically Ironclad with 20 Company, Admiral and Navigator inside. And depending on need the gunhauler would take the 3 or 6 Rigger with it somewhere, Endrinmaster would go with whichever group I felt needed him. 20 company and Khemist were home objective sitters.

First game was against Khorne running Tyrants of Blood with 4 bloodthirsters, 2 whip ones and 2 MW ones playing Battle for the Pass.  I deployed quite far back, too far back honestly with my Ironclad and let him have the first turn, we were playing in Ulgu and he tried to port one of his MW bloodthirsters with the realm ability and rolled a 1, killing the thirster. He then pushed everything up a little bit and ended his turn. My turn 1 I flew my Gunhauler and 6 riggers to the right flank and shot off his screen of reavers, and pushed the Ironclad up the middle to try and get the guns in range. The Ironclad killed a Sluaghterpriest with the cannon shot and took a few wounds off one of the thirsters.  I had 20 Company on the ground with the Khemist that shuffled up and held my objective. I charged my riggers into combat with the MW thirster and totally forgot they get to fight first so the riggers all died. That ended turn 1
Khorne got priority and sent the MW thirster at my Gunhauler, pushed his other two bloodthirsters into my Ironclad.  The MW thirster whiffed pretty hard and ended up only doing 6 wounds to the gunhauler, the other two thirsters attacked the Ironclad but I used my aether gold to reroll saves and it took 6 wounds I think.  The return attacks from everything in the boat killed one bloodthirster and wounded the other 3-4 wounds. On my turn the Ironclad and gunhauler both flew high, Ironclad when to the back board edge to grab his objective which only had 10 reavers holding it. Gunhauler jumped to the left side of the board to help finish off the other bloodthirster and grab that objective. My Endrinmaster killed off the bloodthirster with bombs and his ranged attacks. Ironclad killed the reavers in its charge and claimed the back objective and from there it was basically just cleaning up the few stragglers.  His MW thirster charged my Ironclad the next turn but didnt do much and just died to the return attacks.

Next was Tzeentch in Aqshy, with the rule that terrain blocks LoS(important!) playing blood and glory.  The Tzeentch list was an Arcanist Cabal with kairos and the summoner sub-faction.  4 casters, Kairos and 3 units of 10 battleline(acolytes and Tzaangor)
I will start by saying I would have easily won this game had I not forgotten about the terrain blocking LoS. I deployed in the corner on my left objective, he deployed strung out along his line with Kairos near the middle of the board. I gave him first turn and he just cast a few spells to get summon points, summoned 10 horrors near my block with his gaunt summoner and summoned a LoC right behind them. On my turn I pushed the Ironclad and gunhauler up to the LoC, but had a piece of terrain between us. Endrinriggers pushed to either side, the 3 + Endrinmaster headed towards Kairos. I killed most of the block of horrors, most of a unit of Acolytes and still managed to put a few wounds into the LoC with some shooting from the 6 riggers. I charged the Ironclad into the LoC and nearly killed it, think it had 3 wounds left.
He got turn 2 priority and basically just put a purple sun, Pendulum and Geminids into my Ironclad/gunhauler. Killed off a bunch of the company inside and wounded the Ironclad enough that I couldnt fly high. He charged the Ironclad with 10 Tzaangor, in combat I finished off the LoC and horrors, reroll saves on the Ironclad kept it safe.  On my turn I sent the Endrinmaster and Gunhauler at Kairos and pushed my 3 riggers up behind them, Ironclad couldnt really get anywhere and I didnt want to leave my objective exposed so it stayed put, I think it had 6 wounds at this point remaining. Phosphorite bombs and rigger shooting killed Kairos, my 6 riggers killed one of his caster on his home objective, Ironclad killed off everything it was in combat with and then failed the charge to get it away from Pendulum.
Turn 3 Pendulum kills the Ironclad but I got priority. I killed off the last hero on his left objective, he only had 10 Tzaangor and a Shaman left but the Shaman was IN terrain meaning I couldnt see it to shoot it.  I couldnt get to it in time basically with his 10 man screening and the round ending so it ended in a draw, but he got the mission secondary to win the game.

The FEC game was really a non-game, he was playing a Blisterkin list with 2 AGKoT, I gave him first turn where he moved up a bit then I basically just got a double turn and shot him off the board.  By the top of turn 2 he only had 10 ghouls and 6 horrors left and I had everything so we just called it and hung out bullshitting til the round ended.

All in all the list did quite well, most of the lists I played werent top tier competitive lists though.  I do think it could work well against a number of matchups but I definitely need more time playing KO to make sure i'm not doing dumb things. I do want to try a list with more Thunderers in a boat, I just dont have enough to make it work right now but will probably play some proxy games when I get a chance and see how it compares to the Company heavy list.

[Tidings]

2 hours ago, kozokus said:

The ennemy already deploy weirdly just because you have infinite movement. Plus, the range of the vortex is too short and telegraphed and can easily be countered. Some armies barely bat an eye when eating a vortex and enjoy having a wizard at close range.  Plus you create a slow zone for your army where you cannot fly.

 

• Sure, but it's another thing that they have to deploy and position around until you drop it. The more problems you can add for your opponent, the better. Another Gunhauler doesn't add anything more for them to consider.
• It's not THAT short. You land 9" away and drop the first part 4" into their army. The other two corners go 7" more, meaning he needs to screen a full 12" to be safe from the immediate effect, then he still has go all the way around it. You don't have to use it right away either, so even just holding it on the first turn can be good since now he has to worry about screening all the way through till turn 2. Now you can drop it on the objective he's decided to prioritize. 
• How can it be easily countered? It literally can not be stopped when you use it, screening it is a pain, and it needs a 9+ to unbind. That's not EASY except for a couple very specific lists.
• Yes it affects you too, but as long as you choose where to use it well, it should literally never be an issue for you. Drop it where they are deployed, or on an objective you don't care about until the later part of the game. If it forces him off an objective, you can drop a Gunhauler on it and happily take his objective at the cost of a few mortals (that you will easily repair).

[Leucaruth]

Hi, I have been reading the battletome and found that the Admiral's command ability "On My Mark, Fire!" overlaps with the generic ones in GH2019, Anyone knows why did they even put that command ability if it's worse than the generic ones?

 

[Chumphammer]

Does anyone ever use 2 ironclads?

Barak-Zilfin

General - Endrinmaster on Dirigible Suit, Great Tinkerer, Staff of ocular optimization 
Aetheric Navigator
10 Arkanaut Company - Light skyhook, skypike, volleygun, Captain
10 Arkanaut Company - Light skyhook, skypike, volleygun, Captain
3 Endrinriggers. Skyhook, Mizzenmaster
3 Endrinriggers. Skyhook, Mizzenmaster
Arkanaut Ironclad- Cannon, "The Last Word"
Arkanaut Ironclad- Cannon, "Hegsson Solutions 'old reliable' hullplates "
5 Gunstok Thunderers (Aether rifles/Double barrel)
5 Gunstok Thunderers (Aether rifles/Double barrel)


Or anything else multiple ship wise?

Like 4 Friggates? Or even 10 Gunhaulers?

Edited February 10, 2020 by Chumphammer

[Cauthon]

1 hour ago, Leucaruth said:

Hi, I have been reading the battletome and found that the Admiral's command ability "On My Mark, Fire!" overlaps with the generic ones in GH2019, Anyone knows why did they even put that command ability if it's worse than the generic ones?

 

One of the admirals relics allows him to use a free command ability every turn. The proclomator mask hailer. 

 

Requires you to use a command ability on the admirals warscroll. 

[Ser_namron]

17 hours ago, Phasteon said:

1) My experience is anecdotal evidence but yours is not? I don‘t get it. 

No mines literally anecdotal too, which was the whole point. sure some situations it can be done, but the fact is its a 14 wound model with a -1 to be hit if in conflagration coven. So "just delete it" isnt really a valid option. 

 

 

17 hours ago, Phasteon said:

2) I put it in simple terms? No, I compare the decisive restrictions with each other, namely wounds on the model that trigger the ability. Range doesnt matter because Tzeentch also needs to stay more than 9“ away and depending on which range you have to go closer or further away. You can split shots you know? You can shoot the carbines into a unit thats 12“ away, Thunderers with rifles inside at a unit thats 18“ away and Shrapnel shots at a unit thats 24“ away. Who is simplifying things now to fake a point? 

Im not talking about range of the teleport being 9" away, thats the one rule their teleport still follows.  Flamers are 18" range and the most powerful shooting they have, horrors are 12" range. You can teleport a unit of flamers 18" away and get the full shooting capacity out of them. If you park your boat 18" away you lose shooting on alot of units. Thunderers with rifles and special weapons are the exceptions. Carbines 12"/ pistols 9"/ riggers rivet guns 12" / wardens pistols 9" . A bulk of our shooting REQUIRES us within 12" to fully unload. This is important because KO have practically 0 presence in melee and actual 0 presence in magic, you NEED to be shooting. if you get your ships 12" away from the enemy, you've put yourself at a way higher risk than plopping flamers 18" out. But thats just shooting , and not my main point. Ships cant fly after taking a certain amount of wounds, they cant pick up riggers unless those riggers are wholly within 6" , you have to ungarrison before you fly high, or garrison before you fly high, you also have to be wholly within 6" when you do that. If theirs a flier with 3" you cant disengage you can only retreat ( although units in the vessel can still shoot i believe after the faq?)  THOSE are the restrictions im talking about. far from the harshest restrictions in this game, but restrictions nonetheless and a TON more restrictive than changehost.  I dont know where i "simplified things to fake a point" if anything i'd say your simplifying things to make YOUR point by boiling down KO fly high restrictions to only being about wounds. 

 

18 hours ago, Phasteon said:

3) If you want to stop Tzeentch from teleporting you basically have to kill one model, if you want to stop KO from teleporting you have to deal huge damage to multiple models that have the same ability to be screened but that can also be healed. 

I agree for the most part, you 100% can stop DoT teleporting by killing a LOC. And you can definitely stop KO from teleporting by dealing damage to them ( 7 wounds is not "huge" damage in my mind, but semantics). They can definitely heal, and they can definitely be screened, you are correct. But what i pointed out above, is that to fully use our shooting capacity, we need to be within 12" of the enemy. that means our teleports are all happening 12" from the enemy if you want to fully shoot your profiles. The restrictions we have for teleporting ( detailed above) mean that if you dont get a double turn, your entire teleporting plan is within 12" of some enemy threat, and most likely, multiple threats.  LOC is table wide. he can safely sit in the very back corner, screened 18" and never even be shot at. This isnt going to be the situation everytime, but if im playing DoT against KO why wouldnt i do this? Or against any army with ranged, just keep your LOC pulled back or screened and it can still make full use of its ability to teleport boardwide. 

 

18 hours ago, Phasteon said:

4) I am fully aware of the strength of a 1–drop battalion but having priority for first turn is not as game decisive as you make it look like. There are many disadvantages of going first, eg being doubleturned, holding back units to capture objectives.

theirs definitely pros and cons to going first or 2nd. I wouldnt be gunning for turn 1 as DoT id aim for that double turn nearly everytime. but its situational, and having the power to decide which is the better option for you is huuuuuge, and can even shut down some armies. And honestly, that first doubleturn can be game decisive. Maybe it wont every time, but in my anecdotal evidence ;P, two straight turns of untouched tzeentch shooting is a death sentence, and a good player who knows their opponent is going to use that to disable an army as best as they can, and with the DoT tools they can really make it effective. But double turns suck for anyone on the receiving end no matter what army. So always being able to decide you're the one who gets the shot at a doubleturn is in itself very powerful. 

 

19 hours ago, Phasteon said:

5) You said you arent looking for an argument here, but your choice of words is heavily implying that you do. 

Anything beyond this point literally doesn't matter, neither of us benefit from trying to make this personal or about anything besides KO/ DoT. Take any personal feelings out of the situation. I've presented why DoT and changehost are broken imo, or at least some of the leading factors. I've presented why Changehost teleport and KO teleport are 2 very different things, if you want to disagree with the info/rules and present your own, i welcome them because at the end of the day, we're trying to figure out our strategy playing KO against DoT.  Your first reply boiled down to " shoot the changelord off the table" which, while a valid plan, is not the end of the discussion nor the sure fire way to deal with DoT. 

 

19 hours ago, Phasteon said:

Again, I‘m not disagreeing with your conclusion, just with the logic behind it, because it sounds hyperbolic as what you do is ignoring arguments like „possible counterplay /weakpoints“ and labeling them as basically „not the norm“, while putting everything in a vacuum or optimal situation to make your point sound more viable. 

Your "possible counterplay" was shoot the LOC off the table, that sounds like optimal situation to me. The weakpoint your presented was that the battalion costs 180, i presented you why that wasn't really a weak point at all, you then presented an argument that its a 9 drop total, and you wont be able to bring bulky units, thats a valid argument, although i dont think its as restrictive as the cost of the battalion would make it seem. Thats a valid disagreement.  "not the norm" in relation to the teleport is 100% correct. its got no range restrictions, no cost to use, no cast/prayer/roll attempt to use it, its an amazing teleport that disregards restrictions 99% of the other armies have, im not saying it needs all of them, but it should have at least one of them to curb its power. 


 

[DavionStar]

23 hours ago, 5kaven5lave said:

I think it’s the collector Command Trait for an Aether-Khemist. So if you use that and have a battalion then you could have 3 heroes with an artefact rather than 2? That’s amazing actually. 

Aah, gotcha. I swear Urbaz or some other Skyport let you do that in the first book. But hey, still works. Khemist with Collector and Spell in a Bottle plus another hero with another artifact.

20 hours ago, kozokus said:

I am not sold on the spell-in-bottle thing. You end up spending 140-190 points for a one time effect that will probably get dispelled and cannot be recast again or can backfire or do nothing at all.  Isn't better to spend your points on a gunhauler?

It can be dispelled, but not unbound. And we don't have to roll for the cast either. That Endless Spell is going on the table, period. And there's plenty that start dealing damage as soon as they drop. Hell, see a bunch of enemy units all piled up? Drop an Everblaze Comet on their heads. Every unit in its impact zone takes a guaranteed mortal wound with potential for more. Even if it gets dispelled right after it still did that initial damage. And for 100pts that's not terrible imo when we have no other spell options.

[Cauthon]

13 minutes ago, DavionStar said:

Aah, gotcha. I swear Urbaz or some other Skyport let you do that in the first book. But hey, still works. Khemist with Collector and Spell in a Bottle plus another hero with another artifact.

It can be dispelled, but not unbound. And we don't have to roll for the cast either. That Endless Spell is going on the table, period. And there's plenty that start dealing damage as soon as they drop. Hell, see a bunch of enemy units all piled up? Drop an Everblaze Comet on their heads. Every unit in its impact zone takes a guaranteed mortal wound with potential for more. Even if it gets dispelled right after it still did that initial damage. And for 100pts that's not terrible imo when we have no other spell options.

Well 100 points plus the spell cost and the relic slot and the opportunity cost. 

 

You would have had had to pay for that everblaze comet before hand and hope the enemy bunches up. Even after you tell your opponent you are paying for one.

 

Then you have to compare the potential damage done from your spell to the potential damage added from say the flare pistol on a navigator. Or the ocular staff on a loondrinmaster, whatever you are not taking that you could be taking instead  

 

I too am not sold on the spell in a bottle.

 

plus who wants to buy the skaven endless spells and stormcast endless spells or the mortals endless spells just to cherry pick the  one that’s decent for us to maybe find out that hey, not so great after all. 

 

I get that ppl have second armies and if you have them go for it but the mechanic just seems pretty gimmicky to me. 

[Rachmani]

I think the spell from the bottle should be threatening WITHOUT being cast.
You have to tell your opponent anyway & once he knows and can easily play around you've invested a lot.

But if the threat itself is enough to play into your hands, you're doing it right. Spell in a Bottle has to be relevant without being cast, otherwise the investment is too steep (ignoring lists that dabble with Stormcasts and other sorcerers and make it a feature not a gimmick).

 

[ArkanautDadmiral]

17 minutes ago, Cauthon said:

Well 100 points plus the spell cost and the relic slot and the opportunity cost. 

 

You would have had had to pay for that everblaze comet before hand and hope the enemy bunches up. Even after you tell your opponent you are paying for one.

 

Then you have to compare the potential damage done from your spell to the potential damage added from say the flare pistol on a navigator. Or the ocular staff on a loondrinmaster, whatever you are not taking that you could be taking instead  

 

I too am not sold on the spell in a bottle.

 

plus who wants to buy the skaven endless spells and stormcast endless spells or the mortals endless spells just to cherry pick the  one that’s decent for us to maybe find out that hey, not so great after all. 

 

I get that ppl have second armies and if you have them go for it but the mechanic just seems pretty gimmicky to me. 

The endless spells offer a lot of future interest to our army now. Anytime there’s new models we’ll be looking at how we can use them too.

Plus I think they could be fun conversion opportunities. Dark fire daemonrift with an avatar of Grungni  would be cool.

 

[Cauthon]

All that stuff is cool sure. I’m not going off cool factor though I’m more worried about effectiveness and efficiency. 

[Phasteon]

I‘d really like to field Brokk Grungsson, but I can‘t think of a list that can make use of his rules .. 

After some thinking about the streanghts and weaknesses of the army Barak-Nar kind of feels like a choice for fun games. I cant see this skyport do anything competitive the other ports dont do better. 

Except unbinding, but I cant tell if its worth it. 

Any ideas how to make good use of the duardin version of „Ironman“ ? 

My first idea was: 

Brokk

Endrinmaster w Harness

- Rune for 3 Mws via 6 hit 1x

Navigator

Khemist

- Spell in a Bottle

 

10 Arks

10 Arks

10 Thunderers

3 Riggers

Ironclad

- Buoanskeuakay aid (dont know how to write this word xD) 

Frigate

- Skymines

Iron Sky Command

Purple Sun. 

But tbh, this list sucks compared to the Urbaz list ive ran so far 😂

But it looks fun.

[Cauthon]

18 minutes ago, Phasteon said:

I‘d really like to field Brokk Grungsson, but I can‘t think of a list that can make use of his rules .. 

After some thinking about the streanghts and weaknesses of the army Barak-Nar kind of feels like a choice for fun games. I cant see this skyport do anything competitive the other ports dont do better. 

Except unbinding, but I cant tell if its worth it. 

Any ideas how to make good use of the duardin version of „Ironman“ ? 

My first idea was: 

Brokk

Endrinmaster w Harness

- Rune for 3 Mws via 6 hit 1x

Navigator

Khemist

- Spell in a Bottle

 

10 Arks

10 Arks

10 Thunderers

3 Riggers

Ironclad

- Buoanskeuakay aid (dont know how to write this word xD) 

Frigate

- Skymines

Iron Sky Command

Purple Sun. 

But tbh, this list sucks compared to the Urbaz list ive ran so far 😂

But it looks fun.

the only barak nar list I’ve written that I didn’t hate was a iron sky command full of loondrinmasters, you could take brokk in that if you wanted.  Try and get down to just a cpl drops. 

 

Dont forget your thunderers are battleline in barak nar

[Chumphammer]

Another idea. All the ships:

Barak-Zilfin

General - Endrinmaster on Dirigible Suit, Great Tinkerer, Staff of ocular optimization 
Aetheric Navigator - Void Stone Orb
Arkanaut Frigate - Cannon
Arkanaut Frigate - Cannon
Arkanaut Frigate - Cannon
10 Arkanaut Company - Light skyhook, skypike, volleygun, Captain
10 Arkanaut Company - Light skyhook, skypike, volleygun, Captain
10 Arkanaut Company - Light skyhook, skypike, volleygun, Captain
Grundstok Gunhauler - Drill Canon, Collapsible compartments 
Grundstok Gunhauler - Drill Canon, Zonbarcorp 'Deptsettler' spar torpedo
5 Gunstok Thunderers  - Rifles plus 1 double barrel rifle, Bearer and Sargent
5 Gunstok Thunderers  - Rifles plus 1 double barrel rifle, Bearer and Sargent
Iron Sky attack Squadron 

Endrinmaster, Navigator and 5 Thunderers go in 1 Frigate
10 Arkanaughts in each of the other 2. Last 10 Arkanaughts just hang back on an Obj or move slowly to support (or load into another ship if unloaded) 
5 Thunderers go in the transport Grundstock.

7 drops, 1 auto dispel, lots of guns. No real repair bar on the generals ship but im going for ships over repairs

[DavionStar]

32 minutes ago, Phasteon said:

After some thinking about the streanghts and weaknesses of the army Barak-Nar kind of feels like a choice for fun games. I cant see this skyport do anything competitive the other ports dont do better. 

Except unbinding, but I cant tell if its worth it.

They do get extra command points as well. Roll a d6 for every hero you have and on each 4+ you get a free command point. And it looks like you have 4 heroes so that's statistically an average of 2 free points per game.

36 minutes ago, Phasteon said:

But tbh, this list sucks compared to the Urbaz list ive ran so far 

But it looks fun.

Hey, if you can't have fun with it, then what's the point? I mean. Winning is good too of course but I feel like sometimes you just have to throw models onto the table and see what works. (Unless you're in like a formal tourney or something, then you should probably be more serious.)

[Ser_namron]

47 minutes ago, Phasteon said:

I‘d really like to field Brokk Grungsson, but I can‘t think of a list that can make use of his rules .. 

1 brokk
3 Baloondrinmasters (1 as your general) 
3 units of 6 riggers ( each unit has 1 sky hook the rest have saws and rivet guns) 
3 gunhaulers ( 1 for each unit of 6 riggers and 1 baloondrin) 
1 extra command point 
2000/2000

Fly high outside of 9", shoot the gunz, pop Brokks CA and hope to make some sweet sweet 8" charges with rerolls lol. I dont think itll win you the game, but oh boy all those saws could probably cleave through some bodies

[plavski]

KO got some errata:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/7292dea6.pdf

Quote

Page 90 – Arkanaut Ironclad, Flying Transport Add the following to the first paragraph: ‘If this model is in a warscroll battalion, units from the same battalion that can garrison this model can be set up as this model’s garrison when this model is set up.’

Page 91 – Arkanaut Frigate, Flying Transport Add the following to the first paragraph: ‘If this model is in a warscroll battalion, units from the same battalion that can garrison this model can be set up as this model’s garrison when this model is set up.’

 

And some more FAQ:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/b206c4ea.pdf

Quote

Q: When I set up a Skyvessel before the battle begins, can I set up units in its garrison?

A: If the unit is part of the same battalion as the Skyvessel, it can be set up as part of the Skyvessel’s garrison at the same time the Skyvessel is set up. If the unit is not part of the same battalion as the Skyvessel, the Skyvessel must be set up first, and the unit can be added to its garrison when you are allowed to set up that unit before the battle begins.

 

Edited February 12, 2020 by plavski

[Qaz]

Kudos to GW for quick errata and FAQ. Wasn't expecting this until June to be fair.