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AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion


Chris Tomlin

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1 hour ago, PensivePanther said:

People seem pretty split on thunderers. Personally, I dont think the special weapon loadout is that much more worse than a full squad of riflemen. So Im going to build mine out with the full loadout for flexibility. But Im also not looking to be optimized.

IMO, we should look at the range to see where both loadouts can shine.

The 18" rifles are really good vs units that can't charge after being shoot (units with 4-6" movement without movement shenanigans). The special weapons seems to be better to do damage (even without their inner buffs) and can try surive some charges with their fumigators.

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17 hours ago, Ser_namron said:

we'd all like to hope, Its a good, fun army

I honestly don’t think many people were hoping the power you seem to have hoped for. At least I didn’t and I’m very satisfied so far. 
so fully agree with the second part 😁

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20 hours ago, Ser_namron said:

Kinda disappointing theirs no errata. Though it was expected. I've been enjoying the new tome, and ive squeaked out a few wins, but i dont think we have enough threat outside of hero sniping to really compete with the top tier armies. Our combat is straight up garbage. Saws are great, but they will last you 1 round before your scooping baloons. Our magic.......well, i've made my feelings clear with how GW keeps handling Duardin with no magic, point is, it gimps the ever loving ****** out of the army. And our ranged is good, not great, good. It only functions as well as it does because of our mobility, which is unrivaled. If we couldnt drop down 9" out of enemies we would be well and truly boned. And even dropping that close means your likely getting charged if you dont get a double turn. And once you get charged, your options are A) Hope to have taken few enough wounds to fly high. or B) see if you can squeak a few wounds in before your ships turned to scrap metal. 

I think we need PT reductions almost across the board just to open up more options for how we play, or what we can run. Baloons and ArkCo are probably the only 2 units worth their cost.  All the ships could be reduced a bit IMO, it wont open up enough room to spam more, just enough to add another ground unit or hero. 

The capacity limit on ships excluding Heroes is also just......terrible. There are no interactions in the book that would make this some busted combo. It was unnecessary.  Khemist buff not hitting a garrisoned unit is also pretty trash. RR1 to wound is so minor, and thats like the best buff in our book.....

The KO play experience has been very fun for me so far, but i think ive put them on the table enough at this point to see the flaws and i just dont see how we compete with the top tier armies on the table. I have FS/DoK/Skaven so i have tasted TRUE POWAH, and this army, while amazingly fun, beautifully scultped, and full of Duardin, it does not have the power those other armies have. We need a 2x shooting phase buff to compete with the nonsense that is combat with activation wars nowadays lol. 

I’ve got to say Ship capacity irks me a bit. With Hitchers they’ve left room for the Endrinmaster by saying 7. But didn’t fancy it with Frigates and core battleline for some reason.

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11 minutes ago, Kramer said:

I honestly don’t think many people were hoping the power you seem to have hoped for. At least I didn’t and I’m very satisfied so far. 
so fully agree with the second part 😁

Lo fair enough, it is definitely a spectrum. I got ALOT of what i wanted with this new tome, the army is actually playable and sky ships arent just ok, they have unique uses and some serious firepower.  But i also know whats out there currently, and whats been released in the past year, or even the same week ( DoT have our mobility and better fire power with a unit of flamers and a battalion).  And after suffering for the last 1-2 years with an army i bought into based on looks and lore that legit couldn't hold a candle to most armies without spamming the most boring unit of the tome i was really hoping to have the same level of power. And i think alot of people hoped the same.  New tome is solid, and would be GREAT if it existed in a game that had balanced armies, but it doesnt. KO might be one of the most balanced tomes in the game, and if GW pushed to make that the norm, i'd have no complaints. But you cant release DoT and KO at the same time and say " we're aiming for balance".  So ya, i feel ours comes up short. not because of whats really in there ( some more restrictions than id like) but because of whats OUTSIDE of our army.  Still having a blast playing and painting them, but i mean...ya i wanna win tournaments too.

 

12 minutes ago, ArmyOfGrodd said:

’ve got to say Ship capacity irks me a bit. With Hitchers they’ve left room for the Endrinmaster by saying 7. But didn’t fancy it with Frigates and core battleline for some reason

Its a harsh restriction for no real reason. Their are no busted combos from having a hero in a ship with a unit. even if it was 11. 
 

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My main issue at the moment is I just can’t see a reason to take Skywardens unless going Barak Zon. And without wanting to magnetise, or buy enough more balloons to make as riggers if I want to play a different port it seems silly to lock myself into it.

It’s a shame because I prefer the look and idea of Skywardens but they just don’t beat Riggers for combat in either department without Zon. I feel like if the pistol ranges were switched then everything makes sense and there’s a real choice to be had, even outside of Zon.

Unless I’m missing something?

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39 minutes ago, Ser_namron said:

whats the plan of attack? 

Well you can’t know that till you pick your barak, know scenario and know opponent. 

 

Offhand id say attack a flank aggressively and try and get that 20 arkos to screen your loondrinmasters and ironclad. 

 

Gunhauler one loondrinmaster and 6 riggers can go do their own thing. Loondrinmaster with boosters is wild card. 

 

Gyro copter does stuff..

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16 minutes ago, Cauthon said:

Well you can’t know that till you pick your barak, know scenario and know opponent. 

I take skyport first and build from there, so i had assumed you had one in mind! Now im curious what you're thinking of putting them in. 

 

20 minutes ago, Cauthon said:

Offhand id say attack a flank aggressively and try and get that 20 arkos to screen your loondrinmasters and ironclad. 

Maybe find room for the sky command battalion so you can pop Arkco out turn 1 to screen?  Otherwise you're gonna be leaving yourself exposed if you get fully within range for damage. 

 

33 minutes ago, Cauthon said:

Gunhauler one loondrinmaster and 6 riggers can go do their own thing. Loondrinmaster with boosters is wild card. 

You kitting riggers with special weapons? Ive been digging 4 saws/rivet guns and 2 drills. Still some combat bite, and some hero sniping potential. Plus 12" rivet guns are solid.  Wildcard lol, love it.

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6 hours ago, Bueno said:

Looking for a bit of advice on how to build Arkanauts and Thunderers.

 

I have 10 Arkanauts 2 units of 5 Thunderers on sprue, how am i best equipping them all?

I agree with @PensivePanther that you are safe equipping your arkanauts with one of each special weapon per 10.

the thing with thunderers is that they can fill different roles; they can stay on board a ship and shoot from 18” (in which case all rifles), from 9-12”, in which case max cannons, etc. But if you plan to footslog, or, say, ever leave the ship, you will benefit from more specials. Footslogging with a khemist and you definitely want 1-2 fumigators.

so it’s hard to build so that you have flexibility, depending on how you might want to play them in any given list.

my advice would be to build 1 sergeant and 4 rifles, so that you can at least try a unit of 5 from range, then 2 cannons, 1 mortar, and either 2 descksweepers or 1 decksweeper and a fumigator. That way you can field units of 5 in any configuration you like, and a unit of 10 with specials. Then your next Start Collecting box (trust me, it happens to us all 😁) you can customise further if you want to narrow down to a particular playstyle. I have recently gone from 10 to 15 thunderers, and decided there was never an occasion when I wasn’t grateful for an extra cannon, so 3 cannons is the only special I’ve maxed.

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Aether War set finally arrives, and I am getting it assembled soon. Playing with a friend once we get them assembled, and he has never played before. We have purely the contents of the box, and I was thinking of using some trickery. He has never played, and  am planning to build out full wardens, while emphasizing how great riggers are all around. Then when he prepares to sit back at range, I charge in with my wardens. Thoughts and suggestions? (everything charges in, including the master and hauler provides ranged support with the sky cannon shrapnel)

Edited by Sttufe
Fixes
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8 hours ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Yeah, was just thinking through some choppy heroes in an Ironclad to make a proper melee beast. Like a Sky Command with Admiral and 2 (3?) Endrinmasters on foot in the Ironclad....

I tried that some games, it's not a beast, our melee heroes even with stackable +1 to Hit deal just a mediocre damage compare to 'normal' melee factions. But i realized that i want to deal that damage anyway, cause surviving  in sustained combat with 2 phases/turn that guys partially compensate  our overall lack of damage, another point - that's a a way to deal with things heavily defended against shooting, more reliable than fast-dying baloons.  But i don't like admiral, another endrinmaster would be better, dealing more damage  and healing vs not such necessary +1toHit ability for more points. Don't  forget about 3 MW's on unmod 6's toHit by master - some games it was more important ability than all things admiral can do.

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6 hours ago, Sttufe said:

Aether War set finally arrives, and I am getting it assembled soon. Playing with a friend once we get them assembled, and he has never played before. We have purely the contents of the box, and I was thinking of using some trickery. He has never played, and  am planning to build out full wardens, while emphasizing how great riggers are all around. Then when he prepares to sit back at range, I charge in with my wardens. Thoughts and suggestions? (everything charges in, including the master and hauler provides ranged support with the sky cannon shrapnel)

My first thought would be go easy on your friend if he’s never played before, especially if you want him to play you again 😁

My second thought is that unless you have lots of riggers already, you might regret later building them as wardens. 

My third thought is that riggers are no slouches in melee either, and give you a bit more tactical flexibility to react in game.

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I'm confused as to why there was a FAQ regarding the Collector command trait for an Aether-Khemist general recently. That trait allows exactly what it says - that 1 extra friendly HERO can have an artefact of power, as long as the Aether-Khemist general is equipped with an artefact of power as well.

If I am understanding this correctly, the Collector command trait allows more than 1 artefact of power to be equipped - doesn't this up-end the normal restriction?

 

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6 minutes ago, snipersyn said:

If I am understanding this correctly, the Collector command trait allows more than 1 artefact of power to be equipped - doesn't this up-end the normal restriction?

Are you asking if the  collector  trait allows you to take 2 artifacts on one hero? If so 

A: No. If an ability modifies a rule, any restrictions that apply to the rule still apply unless specifically noted otherwise

Edited by Ser_namron
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Barak-Urbaz ‘Golden Gunline’ anyone? Full range and guns on everything. ArCo screens. Loads of bodies. 150 wounds?

Allegiance: Kharadron Overlords
- Sky Port: Barak Urbaz
Mortal Realm: Ghur
Aether-Khemist (90)
- General
- Trait: Khemist Supreme  
- Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm 
Aetheric Navigator (100)
10 x Arkanaut Company (90)
10 x Arkanaut Company (90)
10 x Arkanaut Company (90)
1 x Grundstok Gunhauler (150)
- Main Gun: Drill Cannon
20 x Grundstok Thunderers (480)
10 x Grundstok Thunderers (240)
12 x Endrinriggers (400)
Arkanaut Frigate (250)
- Main Gun: Heavy Sky Cannon
- Great Endrinworks: Breath of Morgrim (Barak-Urbaz)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 118
 

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3 minutes ago, Ser_namron said:

Are you asking if the  collector  trait allows you to take 2 artifacts on one hero? If so 

A: No. If an ability modifies a rule, any restrictions that apply to the rule still apply unless specifically noted otherwise

No, I'm not asking that. It is understood that only a Hero can only be equipped with 1 artefact. By extension, the rules also restrict equipping an army with 1 artefact only.

The Collector command trait states that 1 extra Hero can be have an artefact as well. The latest FAQ, as I am understanding it, is saying "No." It's written very poorly.

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1 hour ago, snipersyn said:

I'm confused as to why there was a FAQ regarding the Collector command trait for an Aether-Khemist general recently. That trait allows exactly what it says - that 1 extra friendly HERO can have an artefact of power, as long as the Aether-Khemist general is equipped with an artefact of power as well.

If I am understanding this correctly, the Collector command trait allows more than 1 artefact of power to be equipped - doesn't this up-end the normal restriction?

 

It seems to be written to address that the extra artefact cannot go on a named character or an allied hero. Those normal restrictions are still in play. 

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23 hours ago, Ser_namron said:

Still having a blast playing and painting them, but i mean...ya i wanna win tournaments too.

Its a harsh restriction for no real reason. Their are no busted combos from having a hero in a ship with a unit. even if it was 11. 
 

I think everything you said is fair, and I agree. I don't want to be busted, but I want to be a bit more than barely relevant. Sad that there wasn't even a single KO army placing top three in any of the last slew of tournaments. Happy to give it time though; we don't master a new tome overnight and the meta needs time to evolve. 

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