AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion

[Ekrund Oath Splitters]

This is the test paint scheme on a random miniature I made from spare parts. Not happy with the lenses but overall this is the theme I'm going for.

[PensivePanther]

1 hour ago, 5kaven5lave said:

2 questions now that my stuff has finally arrived:

1. New Endrinriggers with Grapnel Launcher right? To protect the ships by locking in the enemy? Or Drill Launcher for damage?

2. Are all the ships on the ball and socket flightstands? How bad are they?

Ta!!

I can confirm the Frigate uses the ball and socket stand, however I've not popped them together yet. I mostly stare at the pieces in fear of the intimidating prospect of painting that spectacular model. I did notice some people using and referencing some third party stands? Sorry I'm not more help but I'm here to increase exposure to your questions and eagerly await the answers from the pros! 

[Arkanaut Admiral]

I don’t know about you all but I am loving our new book! 😁

Thoughts so far?

[Sactownbri]

On 1/5/2020 at 1:13 AM, Entombet said:

Yeap, at least until faq

The battletome says you can start a unit in garrison on a boat...

[Phasteon]

16 minutes ago, Arkanaut Admiral said:

I don’t know about you all but I am loving our new book! 😁

Thoughts so far?

I‘m honest. I know why many people are kind of disappointed by some rules especially when it comes to overall damage output, but after 3 very different games I have to say that the army just works as I always thought it should. 

Superior mobility by ships and very sturdy, reliable shooting. 

Not too strong though, so its still tactical how you use it. 

 

Edit: Only real bummer is the „overlapping“ of similar effects, like reroll/ignore battleshock and reroll 1s to hit. On the other hand it gives the opportunity for a MSU playstyle with multiple buff bubbles. 

Edited January 13, 2020 by Phasteon

[Sactownbri]

8 minutes ago, Arkanaut Admiral said:

I don’t know about you all but I am loving our new book! 😁

Thoughts so far?

I think Barak-nar is best, with Thunderers battleline and the ability to counter opponents magic game.

I can't see why anyone wouldnt take an Ironclad, max to 20 thunderers and supporting characters/relics, regardless of house. Its too much shooting/fighting with a small footprint, high armor, stupid mobility and lots of wounds. Add in boat repair and gunhauler support to taste and just frustrate your opponent as you bounce around shooting, repelling boarders, tanking wounds and healing back to full, rinse repeat.

Gunhaulers are possibly the new hotness for there support of hitchers and tanking wounds for all other boats.

Someone needs to come up with a sound viable strategy for Khemists. They look like hot trash and an unnecessary tax to cast a single endless spell. I honestly thought the Navigator got to use spell in a bottle at first read, since they can dispel. Now that I know better I'm all around disappointed.

All warden/rigger armies are very narrative and would be fun. Nice to see them get a battleline option everyone can use.

Why did they nerf Brokk? Not like he was seeing much table time as it was, now I am guessing less.

[sal4m4nd3r]

13 minutes ago, Sactownbri said:

The battletome says you can start a unit in garrison on a boat...

Yes but a unit of Thunderers ( for example) and a Frigate is two drops. You deploy the frigate. Then you deploy the thunderers garrisoned in the ship. 

[Sactownbri]

55 minutes ago, PensivePanther said:

I can confirm the Frigate uses the ball and socket stand, however I've not popped them together yet. I mostly stare at the pieces in fear of the intimidating prospect of painting that spectacular model. I did notice some people using and referencing some third party stands? Sorry I'm not more help but I'm here to increase exposure to your questions and eagerly await the answers from the pros! 

Glue them in place or use third party options. Magnet baron has a nice option. I glued them in place for Frigates and replaced the Ironclad with a brass rod for strength. I use BF so glued in place works perfectly for their foam. Honestly as bad as they are, I think the warden/rigger (primaris marine too!) flying stands are absolute garbage, making the boat stands not that bad in comparison.

[novembermike]

23 minutes ago, Arkanaut Admiral said:

I don’t know about you all but I am loving our new book! 😁

Thoughts so far?

It feels interesting. I'd basically classify it like this.

Mobility: A

Durability: B

Ranged Firepower: C (which can be a little misleading because KO would lose a pure ranged vs ranged battle against most dedicated ranged units, but KO can actually go 100% ranged because they don't tend to take penalties in melee range)

Melee Power: D

You need to use the mobility and durability but if you do then you can keep focused firepower going for multiple turns and use that to win a battle.

[AlmGandix3]

There is an error in the AoS App on Thundriks Profiteers in the new tome the skypike wounds on a 3+ and in the app on a 4+.

Thats nothing too big but might deny you the chance to settle a grudge 

[Phasteon]

8 minutes ago, Sactownbri said:

I think Barak-nar is best, with Thunderers battleline and the ability to counter opponents magic game.

I can't see why anyone wouldnt take an Ironclad, max to 20 thunderers and supporting characters/relics, regardless of house. Its too much shooting/fighting with a small footprint, high armor, stupid mobility and lots of wounds. Add in boat repair and gunhauler support to taste and just frustrate your opponent as you bounce around shooting, repelling boarders, tanking wounds and healing back to full, rinse repeat.

Gunhaulers are possibly the new hotness for there support of hitchers and tanking wounds for all other boats.

Someone needs to come up with a sound viable strategy for Khemists. They look like hot trash and an unnecessary tax to cast a single endless spell. I honestly thought the Navigator got to use spell in a bottle at first read, since they can dispel. Now that I know better I'm all around disappointed.

All warden/rigger armies are very narrative and would be fun. Nice to see them get a battleline option everyone can use.

Why did they nerf Brokk? Not like he was seeing much table time as it was, now I am guessing less.

1) Every skyport (except Mhornar imo) has some very strong aspects that fits a different playstyle. 

For me Barak Nar was the obvious choice at first too, then I realized that I dont like the command trait and artifact and that I can make more us of more Aethergold so Urbaz was my way to go (also Gunhaulers Battleline)

 

2) I think Last Word > more transport, because Thunderers are better on the ground anyway and a unit of 20 is pretty expensive (yet very deadly). I probably have to try though, but then I need to adjust my whole list to get 240 more points for those Thunderers. 

 

3) Khemist worked well with a unit of 20 Arkanauts footslogging on an objective. 270 points with reasonable defense and output on a weaker flank (remember, the enemy isnt putting down nothing but deathstar units) 

 

4) I think Brokk is still a very good beatstick for 240p, he is even killier now. 

But yeah, besides being killy he doesnt bring that much to the table. He also should make Balloons Battleline AND his Command Ability should be something like „Share your wealth, give a unit an Aethergold on a 3/4+. Once per turn only“

[Boar]

7 hours ago, mikethefish said:

So normally I am a big fan of Warhammer Weekly, but I am not looking forward to listening to Tom moan and groan nonstop about how bad the KO book is in this week's show (which is ridiculous, but he's welcome to his opinion I guess).  Might have to give it a pass.

 

Kinda my thoughts as well. I will watch though and hope that Tom chilled out over those few days. Don`t get me wrong, Tom is great guy, thought more emotional one of the two.

[Forrix]

On ‎1‎/‎3‎/‎2020 at 7:04 AM, Eevika said:

The fact is that GW has two guys writing books. One is chill and likes the lore and such writes books like Ogors and Gloomspite then there is the guy snorting coke instead of drinking coffee and writing rules like "6 mortals wounds on a roll of 6" "+1 save to the entire army" "No battleshocks ever" "Summon 3 keepers a game"I hope KO got the coked out one. 

Felt like sharing this since I laughed pretty hard back when I read it and we now know, that sadly, we got the chill guy instead of the coked out one.

[Ekrund Oath Splitters]

6 minutes ago, Forrix said:

Felt like sharing this since I laughed pretty hard back when I read it and we now know, that sadly, we got the chill guy instead of the coked out one.

I saw that before aswell made me laugh! It's true though but I am still happy with the book as it is. Maybe the ironclad, frigate and thunderers could see a nice pts drop in the next GHB but I'll manage for now. Looking in my area there isnt a single Ossiarch player, tournament wise or local.... it's still mainly slaanesh that is king (queen?) and then a couple Fyrslayer and Skaven players.

I've had more fun and better games with the KO than my BoC and Ironjaws so far. StD I've yet to play as I'm sure the nurgle DP needs a FAQ so that's held me off playing them competitively atm.

We are a solid mid tier army and we could probably throw our weight around with maybe bonereapers due to our ranged advantage. Slaanesh is probably still too strong with their own speed and stupid allegiance rules and KoS.

[Azamar]

16 minutes ago, Boar said:

Kinda my thoughts as well. I will watch though and hope that Tom chilled out over those few days. Don`t get me wrong, Tom is great guy, thought more emotional one of the two.

What didn’t he like about it? 

[sal4m4nd3r]

15 minutes ago, Forrix said:

Felt like sharing this since I laughed pretty hard back when I read it and we now know, that sadly, we got the chill guy instead of the coked out one.

Its just crazy to me that Bonereaper's and KO are part of the same game when you look at abilities such as +1 save army wide, army wide battleshock immunity, command abilities like adding 1 to rend,  rr all saves, +3 movement etc. 

[Boar]

1 minute ago, Azamar said:

What didn’t he like about it? 

Hard to say right now, detailed show about KO will be on wednesday, but in last he was very dissapointed

[sal4m4nd3r]

4 minutes ago, Azamar said:

What didn’t he like about it? 

Vince summed it up best. 

One of the armies in the Aether war box has amazing battalions, access to durable chaff, every sub faction has a dedicated theme and adds strong buffs that will allow the army to alpha strike the opponent removing large portions of your army before you get to your first hero phase. the other one is KO. 

[Ekrund Oath Splitters]

1 minute ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

Its just crazy to me that Bonereaper's and KO are part of the same game when you look at abilities such as +1 save army wide, army wide battleshock immunity, command abilities like adding 1 to rend,  rr all saves, +3 movement etc. 

Yeah  bone reapers are on crack.... but if you took away Pertifex Elites I reckon they wouldn't be half as strong. Most armies now a days have a way to ignore battleshock or mitigate it some way. A handful of armies can strike twice in combat and most have a way of doing combat out of sequence through the hero phase or at the start of the combat phase.

The +3" movement isnt too crazy really, it's a common theme in most battle tomes now to have some form of movement shenanigans, through teleports, prayers, crazy charge distances (cough marauders cough) or simply having a good movement value (7"-14").

The reroll saves is only in combat, has to be on a unit with shields? And costs RD points. StD throw out save rerolls like candy too, we can for a once per unit thing (when they have aether gold).

I think it is literally just Pertifex Elite that is the problem, pair that with Gothizzar Harvesters and your not shifting a unit of 40 Mortek Guard with Shieldwall popped. I've seen online other sub factions played and they are no way as potent as PE.... and frankly it's boring to watch a Batrep with PE as nothing happens, theyll lose like a model or two from the whole army swinging at them, throwing magic and shooting. Its not fun to watch and I'll wager they will do something to change PE. 

[Sactownbri]

14 minutes ago, Phasteon said:

1) Every skyport (except Mhornar imo) has some very strong aspects that fits a different playstyle. 

For me Barak Nar was the obvious choice at first too, then I realized that I dont like the command trait and artifact and that I can make more us of more Aethergold so Urbaz was my way to go (also Gunhaulers Battleline)

The problem I am experiencing with the other skyports is that, without a heavy investment in navigators, I am conceding the magic phase. Against DoK, Heedonites, Tzeentch and Gitz in my local meta, conceding that phase of the game is causing losses. I have not played other magic heavy lists, but I suspect that will be the same. I generally play Zilfin and have been putting navigators on each frigate for the counter. Sadly that pushes me to just play thunderers in the Frigates, with some ground slogging Arkanauts to hold objectives.  Having to play three Navigators, for me, is not fun. I have played Nar once with an Ironclad bomb against Heedonites. Every hero getting a  dispel, plus thunderers as battleline, was perfect for playing heroes I wanted for command ability synergy while still being able to counter the magic phase.

I can see a couple of options with Thryng, but then you loose overall army movement on those dispelling heroes/units. Thats not the army I want to play so I haven't tried it yet.

[GDD]

7 minutes ago, sal4m4nd3r said:

Its just crazy to me that Bonereaper's and KO are part of the same game when you look at abilities such as +1 save army wide, army wide battleshock immunity, command abilities like adding 1 to rend,  rr all saves, +3 movement etc. 

Even internally when reading the OBR tome I just did a full stop when reading Petrifex.
It made me think that the team had a sit down to come up with cool themes for sub-factions, and then one of them "snuck" in his dream sub-faction that just HAD to have a universal 1+ save ability AND a rend ability because it made sooo much sense.

I know that makes me a cynical ******, but in a book of great rules it's just clearly THE best one.

[Ekrund Oath Splitters]

2 minutes ago, Sactownbri said:

The problem I am experiencing with the other skyports is that, without a heavy investment in navigators, I am conceding the magic phase. Against DoK, Heedonites, Tzeentch and Gitz in my local meta, conceding that phase of the game is causing losses. I have not played other magic heavy lists, but I suspect that will be the same. I generally play Zilfin and have been putting navigators on each frigate for the counter. Sadly that pushes me to just play thunderers in the Frigates, with some ground slogging Arkanauts to hold objectives.  Having to play three Navigators, for me, is not fun. I have played Nar once with an Ironclad bomb against Heedonites. Every hero getting a  dispel, plus thunderers as battleline, was perfect for playing heroes I wanted for command ability synergy while still being able to counter the magic phase.

I can see a couple of options with Thryng, but then you loose overall army movement on those dispelling heroes/units. Thats not the army I want to play so I haven't tried it yet.

I've solely played Urbaz so far and I have to agree with you about the anti magic sections of the army. I've literally just sat and watched spells being cast with no retaliation from me to cancel them. Navigators or Runelords are essential to the army I believe. There are some big spells out there that can half movement, stop you from retreating, teleports, minuses to hit/wound or dump a deluge of MWs onto a target and our KO just look in shock and horror from their boats powerless.

I wouldnt want Whispers of Chaos cast on any of my units. Not being about to move AT ALL, hell no!!!! But its tough finding the pts for Navigators that dont do much except unbind (not fond of their innate prayer). So yeah Barak Nar and Urbaz are the Skyports that have my attention, Thryng being third, then Zon, Zilfin and then Mhornar

[Phasteon]

That Barak-Nar argument is very valid though... +1 unbind for EVERY hero, also 2-3 extra CP depending on how many Heroes you take... 

I just think that the bonus Triumph(s) granted by Urbaz are very important, but funnily enough I always rolled a 1 so far. But it was enough that my Ironclad got 2 from the beginning which was vital every game. I feel this can be offset though if you take the hero kill artifact from the Admiral though... 

The Artykels of both are trash tbh, nobody cares for reroll battleshock as almost all units do so anyway or are immune. 

I personally think Urbaz amendment > Barak Nar because D3 Triumphs are ALWAYS good while unbinding is just good against magic heavy lists and then again, magic heavy lists often get +1-2 on casts anyway.

 

Footnote is the same thing. +1 Aethergold for your unit of Thunderers or Arkanauts that just fought can be decisive (rerolled my 4+ save two turns in a row with my 20 arkanauts which saves enough to hold the objective). 

While +1 to unbind is pretty good against average magic, you will still get outmagicked by Nagash or comparable stuff. 

So far its 2:1 for Urbaz

(Ability = Barak Nar CP

Artykel = Both trash

Amendment = Urbaz

Footnote = Urbaz) 

Then comes Battleline: 

Here its really a tie imo. Thunderers AND Gunhaulers are both very good and you probably want at least 1 unit of each. 

 

But: Command trait

Urbaz has basically no forced trait as you can take Admiral or Endrinmaster w Suit as General and pick (very strong!)

 

Also no forced artifact, though the forced Endrinwork is a downer (though Breath of Morgrim can be awesome against hordes with some hot dice... but yeah its not that great of a choice) 

 

12“ no battleshock bubble from Nar is basically one of the many abilities the Admiral has and its also a battalion ability you might want to take to make full use of Barak Nar Heroes (CP/ unbinds)

And the Artifact is abysmal. Ok 1 free save or 1x 3 MWs with 1 Endrinmaster Attack if I take auto 6. No thx, I‘d rather take whats basically a free CP every round. 

I‘d say clearly this part goes to Urbaz, which makes it 3:1 for the market city. 

 

Also: 

The CP thing of Barak Nar is not a real issue as you can bring an Admiral with war wound and mask in Urbaz which „statistically“ grants you about 9 bonus CP in a 5 turn game, while Nar grants about 2 (for 4 Heroes). 

 

And: 

You can pick the Voidstone Orb on the Navigator for 1x scroll, sometimes auto dispel 1 gamechanger spell is better than trying and failing to unbind 3-4 spells. 

Also Malevolent Maelstrom can be cast out of the Bottle by Khemist to try and deny spells (dunno if its a real option, but I might try some day) 

 

I think Urbaz is like the „allrounder“ while Barak Nar is very anti-magic, also very centered around the new Endrinmaster as General, because the trait is straight useless for an Admiral. 

Zilfin obviously favors MSU frigate/mobility playstyle which will also be very good I think

 

Zon is imo the „Deathstar-Cavalry“ Skyport, featuring 12-24 Skywardens with Khemist buff and triumph use for maximum charge damage, also good combo potential with the Ships (fly high + skyhook + nav/admiral is 7“ charge rerollable)

 

Thrying is the CoS version of KO but actually weaker than the actual CoS version of KO aka Tempest Eye  

 

And Mhornar.. I‘m sure some1 will come up with something for them too... maybe the artifact can make you win games? I dont know, halve the charge distance of a unit that would otherwise need a 7+ can be good I guess 🤷🏼‍♂️

 

But I really think it will come down to Barak Nar, Urbaz and Zilfin in the end, with Urbaz probably being the best. 

 

 

[Rachmani]

I agree. Urbaz seems like a clear winner. And as long as you don‘t force yourself into a situation in which you have to have the extra compartments the breath ain‘t that big of a trade-off.

Urbaz with escort wing feels like the foundation of a well rounded army.

Edited January 13, 2020 by Rachmani

[novembermike]

Knight Incantors are another option for dealing with spells.