crkhobbit Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 Warp lightning vortex? Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cofaxest Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 (edited) 50 minutes ago, crkhobbit said: Warp lightning vortex? Lol It's not so hard to avoid. Plus you still must pay 90 pts tax for it. But this could work? Barak-Zilfin Frigate 250 Frigate 250 20 arcanauts 180 20 arcanauts 180 Gunhauler 150 Sky squardon 120 Alchemist with vortex 190 10 thunderers 240 10 thunderers 240 Navigator Endrinmaster Lol. So we move our "hero ship" 16 inches and use bottle to create vortex 13 inches away from us and after that attack with thunderers and grab objectives with arcanauts. I already want to try this) Edited January 6, 2020 by cofaxest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beliman Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 It's all about your strategy. If vortex fits your strategy better than other options, then these other options are not auto-include. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cofaxest Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 3 minutes ago, Beliman said: It's all about your strategy. If vortex fits your strategy better than other options, then these other options are not auto-include. Ye, I clearly can see that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDD Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 1 hour ago, Satyrical Sophist said: That said, at some point I am going to some calculations about KO offensive out put, but I'm at work at the moment. That sounds like the type of work I'd be super interested in reading, but too lazy to do myself. I'd be very interested in your results if you're willing to share. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatherTurin Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 So, I remain optimistic, but I’m test building some lists, and the point costs on the boats are ROUGH. It’s impossible you fit everything you want into a list, which forces some hard choices (which is good design), but the results that I get so far have a very, very small board presence and will have serious problems playing the objective game. I’m withholding judgment until I get the book and play some games, but it is feeling like you have to skew into either objective holding or crazy shooting. If you try and do both, you will be bad at both. My gut reaction is that some moderate point drops (ironclad, thunderers) might end up being necessary. We are pretty clearly being charged a premium on garrisons and fly high, but we only have one unit that really does any work in that setup. I’m also not entirely sure that riggers and wardens are worth their cost without more melee buffs, but then again, time will tell. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cofaxest Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 Barak-Zon Sky squadron 120 Frigate 250 Frigate 250 Gunhauler 150 Gunhauler 150 10 Arcanauts 90 10 Arcanauts 90 6 wardens (with 2 drills) 200 6 wardens (with 2 drills) 200 6 wardens (with 2 drills) 200 6 wardens (with 2 drills) 200 Navigator 100 with pistol Navigator 100 with scroll Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJetski Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 Gunhaulers seem pretty good now. I'm not sure I would ever take an Ironclad over 2 Frigates, unless it was to protect 20 Thunderers... but I think it would make more sense to split them into 2 Frigates instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boar Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 8 minutes ago, cofaxest said: 6 wardens (with 2 drills) 200 6 wardens (with 2 drills) 200 6 wardens (with 2 drills) 200 6 wardens (with 2 drills) 200 Why drills? You have those already build? Because skyhook and grapnel have slightly better avg. damage and crucially skyhook gives +1 to charge roll and grapnel stops enemy retreats. Since your list is from Barak-Zon clearly you intend to throw skywardens into melee, where not drill, but those other weapons would be more beneficial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phasteon Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 15 minutes ago, FatherTurin said: So, I remain optimistic, but I’m test building some lists, and the point costs on the boats are ROUGH. It’s impossible you fit everything you want into a list, which forces some hard choices (which is good design), but the results that I get so far have a very, very small board presence and will have serious problems playing the objective game. I’m withholding judgment until I get the book and play some games, but it is feeling like you have to skew into either objective holding or crazy shooting. If you try and do both, you will be bad at both. My gut reaction is that some moderate point drops (ironclad, thunderers) might end up being necessary. We are pretty clearly being charged a premium on garrisons and fly high, but we only have one unit that really does any work in that setup. I’m also not entirely sure that riggers and wardens are worth their cost without more melee buffs, but then again, time will tell. As far as I can tell you either have many bad models or few strong units. Eg my OBR list looks like this: Arkhan Liege Kavalos Soulmason 30 Mortek w Spears 2x5 Deathriders Harvester Immortis Guard Deathrider Battalion Shrieker board presence wise its a big blob of 30 morteks that dominates „the centre of attention“ and Arkhan, the Liege and the cavalry roaming to grab/ contest / assassinate. 100% winrate so far. KO can easily contest that lists board presence by teleporting to the objective on the far end of the mortek horde while focussing down one thread at a time. Endrinriggers are BRUTAL now, a unit of 6 features: 2A 4+/3+ –2 3D 12A 4+/4+ –1 1D while restoring 3–5 wounds (with Endrinmaster CA) to a nearby boat. I think it will either go like the following: You outmaneuver/kite elite while winning on multiple objectives or you get caught unlucky and lose. Or You get swarmed by chaff that cant really hurt you and you either clear it fast enough to win on objectives or you fail and lose. You can always lose any game, keep that in mind. KO are finally a more elite army as they should be. GW had 2 options we already discussed. a) increase overall output b) increase overall defense They went with b) AND gave us unlimited range via teleport. I get why people are „shocked“ by the tome and dont see how to win immidiately. I cant even figure out which skyport to use (gameplay wise), but I think its because KO are now very different to every other tome mechanically. Last point: Dont underestimate the rerolling saves for the Ironclad or embarked units! They are as tough as the „oh so feared“ petrifex mortek guard, while being cheaper AND more deadly. And faster. From experience point if view: 1–2 rerolls are pretty much enough for a single game, I had games where my mortek guard didnt see a single round of combat. Some opponents simply realize that they cant charge and Ironclad or get obliterated by things like bombs, „last word“ and some potent combat characters garrisoned in the ship while doing nothing in return. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cofaxest Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Boar said: Why drills? You have those already build? Because skyhook and grapnel have slightly better avg. damage and crucially skyhook gives +1 to charge roll and grapnel stops enemy retreats. Since your list is from Barak-Zon clearly you intend to throw skywardens into melee, where not drill, but those other weapons would be more beneficial. I was thinking about skyhooks but with reroll tohit rolls you can do nice amount of mw with drills against one target. But it needs to be tested. Edited January 6, 2020 by cofaxest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walrustaco Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 So why is it that the aethermatic volley gun has a different range depending on which unit is wielding it? I get having different hit rolls but... The most offending one to me is comparing the Arkanaut Company and Thundrik's Profiteers. Both models are privateers with the same gun, why the 6" discrepancy? Is Enrik Ironhail that bad of a dude? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratigo Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 (edited) So, just for fun, I am gonna predict the dominant way to play KO will be urbaz with a large number of gunhaulers and balloon boy shooting squads, maybe organized in a escort wing. Arkanauts will be used as screens. the other competitor is an other dwarf thryng army, but if that becomes the best way to play, I’ll just be sad Edited January 6, 2020 by stratigo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 @TheadTheOgorSlayer big kudos for your post earlier about owning a mistake. It happens but on the internet rarely are people that upfront about it. 👍 akso the warscrolls are on the GW site. And to add to the arkanauts conversation. I haven’t seen anybody mentioning their glory seeker rule. They seem to be made to hold objectives now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 4 minutes ago, Walrustaco said: So why is it that the aethermatic volley gun has a different range depending on which unit is wielding it? I get having different hit rolls but... The most offending one to me is comparing the Arkanaut Company and Thundrik's Profiteers. Both models are privateers with the same gun, why the 6" discrepancy? Is Enrik Ironhail that bad of a dude? More aethergas to power the guns on the elite boys? No clue. Doubt GW have any narrative reason. So gameplay reason would be my guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDD Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 1 hour ago, FatherTurin said: It’s impossible you fit everything you want into a list, which forces some hard choices (which is good design), but the results that I get so far have a very, very small board presence and will have serious problems playing the objective game. I'm 100% with you here. This is exactly where I'm at in my list building phase. At first I was going with 3 Endrinriggers, 30 Arkanauts & 9 Skywardens for my battleline, but I think taking another 30 Arkanauts instead of the wardens might be the right decision here. The issue I have with it is footslogging both those units around with 4" movement. Still going to try and run two Frigates with 10 Thunderers each though. 38 minutes ago, Phasteon said: Endrinriggers are BRUTAL now, a unit of 6 features: 2A 4+/3+ –2 3D 12A 4+/4+ –1 1D I'm not sure if I'm missing something obvious here, but the New Endrinrigger profile is: Ranged: 12" 3A 3+/4+ -1 1Damage Melee: 1" 1A 3+/2+ -2 1D3 Damage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walrustaco Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 1 minute ago, GDD said: I'm 100% with you here. This I'm not sure if I'm missing something obvious here, but the New Endrinrigger profile is: Ranged: 12" 3A 3+/4+ -1 1Damage Melee: 1" 1A 3+/2+ -2 1D3 Damage It's 2 skyhooks+4 pistols he's talking about. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plavski Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 23 minutes ago, Walrustaco said: So why is it that the aethermatic volley gun has a different range depending on which unit is wielding it? I get having different hit rolls but... The most offending one to me is comparing the Arkanaut Company and Thundrik's Profiteers. Both models are privateers with the same gun, why the 6" discrepancy? Is Enrik Ironhail that bad of a dude? Flying dudes have a height advantage to give more range and Ironhail has been trapped in Shadespire for years so is really damn good with it. Simples! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheThievingMick Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 Barak Zilfin arkanauts can zip around 10 inches a turn if they run. That's not bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prochuvi Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 3 hours ago, WatcherintheWater said: One fun Idea that came to mind is using the Gunhauler with the 5 capacity artifact as a hero chariot. Put in an Admiral, and an Endrenmaster or two on board, and use the Repel Boarders command trait. In Barak Zon you can give the Khemist the +2 attack artifact and you have some decent shooting, and 11 2+/2+ attacks with rend -1 or -2 & 2 or d3 damage. Or if you did the make your own port, you could give the Admiral the double damage vs a specific enemy, and a +1 artifact, and choose the heroes re-roll 1s to hit vs enemy heroes and monsters. Probably not super competitive, and you are at risk of getting surrounded and losing 490 points, but would be fun and not horrible. Maybe fun,but 490 poins for 11 atacks of 2 damage?? That isnt even close to horrible it is umplayable. A unit of fyreslayers berzerkers cost 120 and put 5 attacks of 2 damage,so we bring 2 units(240 points) and we have the same damage output that you idea but for around 300 less points,and are so much tanky and dont waste hero slot or artifact neither comand trait. I see kharadrons as a mid tier at best(6-15 position). This tome havent nothing that be VERY competitive at mathammer,melles are bad and shooting units are bad also if we compare it to other tomes shooting units. Also it dont have any gimmick as every god tier army have(free sumon,allways attack first,some unit attack twice etc) Yes this tome isnt bad,it have many fun things,and every unit is "good" but it isnt even close to t1 army and better ignore god tier armys. Only i can see this tome doing something in tournaments thanks to the great map control that gonna have now,but if this is enough to compesate have worse warscrolls than the enemy it is soon to know. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gecktron Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 29 minutes ago, Kramer said: akso the warscrolls are on the GW site. And to add to the arkanauts conversation. I haven’t seen anybody mentioning their glory seeker rule. They seem to be made to hold objectives now. Yes! 20 Arkanauts buffed by the new Khemist generate 16,5 wounds in the shooting phase against Save - units (9,5 against 4+ save). Not counting aether-gold re-rolls, the attacks from the Khemist or close combat. Thats a nice 270 points block, ideal for holding objectives against flanking units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 7 minutes ago, Gecktron said: Yes! 20 Arkanauts buffed by the new Khemist generate 16,5 wounds in the shooting phase against Save - units (9,5 against 4+ save). Not counting aether-gold re-rolls, the attacks from the Khemist or close combat. Thats a nice 270 points block, ideal for holding objectives against flanking units. Taking two isn’t a bad call indeed. Although I might go 20-10-10. Also fixes my battleline if I’m not ziflin. (Or convert endrinmaster with balloon). But more important two units of 10 to screen and block out zones might just prove to be very important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralZero Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 I'm really thinking now: 1 ironclad or 2 frigates?????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beliman Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 How good a double SCE comet could be in a KO list? Start at 31" of any other enemy mage. Use bottle to throw the comet. Do damage with it. Unbind it with the navigator. After that, use your alied incantor to summon it again and do damage again. Bit crazy but maybe could be fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beliman Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 4 minutes ago, GeneralZero said: I'm really thinking now: 1 ironclad or 2 frigates?????? Imo, 1 Ironclad AND 2 frigates. This is the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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