AoS 2 - Kharadron Overlords Discussion

[GDD]

6 minutes ago, Entombet said:

And it cost 130p more than him.

It removed him in a single phase, and still gets to do stuff in the rest of the game though.
Meanwhile you've removed the scariest thing in an S tier army, and if you're lucky you get to do it again the next turn. Sounds like it's plenty worth it.

[cofaxest]

8 minutes ago, GDD said:

It removed him in a single phase, and still gets to do stuff in the rest of the game though.
Meanwhile you've removed the scariest thing in an S tier army, and if you're lucky you get to do it again the next turn. Sounds like it's plenty worth it.

And with all KO forces you can potentially remove 2 of them on turn one even before "action" is begin. Not so bad for a low-tier army) 

Edited January 5, 2020 by cofaxest

[SireScott]

I don't understand complaining that our frigate and thunderers cost more than a unit they can destroy in one turn. If all our units could destroy their points value in a single salvo then logically we would deep strike and wipe out the enemy army in turn 1. That doesnt strike me as entirely balanced

[cofaxest]

4 minutes ago, SireScott said:

I don't understand complaining that our frigate and thunderers cost more than a unit they can destroy in one turn. If all our units could destroy their points value in a single salvo then logically we would deep strike and wipe out the enemy army in turn 1. That doesnt strike me as entirely balanced

This was one of the reasons why KO was nerfed last time) and if to be honest it is the main problem of shooting army in AoS. We can remove models before they even had a chance to do something.

[5kaven5lave]

Remember that a model doesn’t only  ‘earn its points back’ (if there even is such a thing) by deleting something that costs the same points. The value of a unit is much more than just numbers or its kill:death ratio. 

Edited January 5, 2020 by 5kaven5lave

[Entombet]

13 minutes ago, SireScott said:

I don't understand complaining that our frigate and thunderers cost more than a unit they can destroy in one turn. If all our units could destroy their points value in a single salvo then logically we would deep strike and wipe out the enemy army in turn 1. That doesnt strike me as entirely balanced

Problem is currently you will never start first and many armies can be in close combat with you turn 1

[michu]

6 minutes ago, Entombet said:

Problem is currently you will never start first and many armies can be in close combat with you turn 1

That's what screen units are for.

[Kramer]

1 hour ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Pretty sure you just summed up the history of the internet. 

Who knew I would amount to something as grand as that 😂

25 minutes ago, Entombet said:

Problem is currently you will never start first and many armies can be in close combat with you turn 1

That's why you have a 4+ 10 wounds for 90 point battle line. Unit in ships take less space, so less screens needed. Fly high will get you anywhere your regular move + shoot wont. And of course that might not work in the end. But it's one of those things that needs to be played to figure the balance out. 

[cofaxest]

31 minutes ago, Entombet said:

Problem is currently you will never start first and many armies can be in close combat with you turn 1

You can hide your ships anywhere in your territory, so this is not a problem at all. 

[SireScott]

I have to ask who is getting any serious amounts of units into combat with you in turn 1? You can deploy literally on the back line as you can deep strike. The one keeper of secrets with fly, run and charge can get there, perhaps a terrorgheist or dragon with the movement spell. In which case it's not unreasonable to screen your ships with arkanaughts and delete that one unit. In summary there are armies with a unit that can cross the board and charge turn 1 but which armies can do that with multiple units?

[Phasteon]

33 minutes ago, Entombet said:

Problem is currently you will never start first and many armies can be in close combat with you turn 1

About what exactly are we talking here?

[Stormrage89]

24 minutes ago, cofaxest said:

You can hide your ships anywhere in your territory, so this is not a problem at all. 

ya, with Fly High you could put all your stuff in the back corner. in a standard 24" between deployment zone game.  that would leave you with what.... 32" they would have to move plus terrain they would need to potentially go around? i know there are games where you can start closer but still.

 

[Cauthon]

5 hours ago, Eevika said:

Super glue my ma

5 hours ago, prochuvi said:

I am a dwarf lover and after finish my dispossesed army and almost my fyreslayer army now come the turn to KO but.........i have a big problem and the reason that i didnt get them before: fliying bases.

 

I really hate that new fliying bases and i cant imagine me playing a game with some big ships moving in the table with that faill of design stand.

 

But i couldnt avoid it and i have got arkanaut boxes x2 and one aether war box.

 

Any tip for the enrigdigger to keep them on the fliying stand? I was thinking about try pinning the backpack to the stand? But i have fear to break it as those stand are so weaks.

 

I tried chopping the flying base, glueing magnets on them then drilling magnets into the butts of the endrinriggers. 

It was action pose city for awhile because they spin on their magnets.

a few of my magnets popped off the flying stands because I didn’t use enough green stuff to cap them on.

I ended up pulling magnets out of the endrinriggers and drilling through into their cavity and now they just slot on the flying stems. 

Works pretty well, easy to store. No reglueing required ever. 

 

[cofaxest]

6 minutes ago, Stormrage89 said:

ya, with Fly High you could put all your stuff in the back corner. in a standard 24" between deployment zone game.  that would leave you with what.... 32" they would have to move plus terrain they would need to potentially go around? i know there are games where you can start closer but still.

 

Yes, exactly! 

[Nick907]

We don’t have to finish deployment first anymore, we can just pack into a corner and screen with arkanauts. I think smart opponents will force us to go first, so the strategy will be to proceed cautiously in round 1 most of the time.  We have the ability to clear objectives with shooting and move around but it will be harder to bank on the early double turn. This is okay and opponents will survive longer than they would otherwise. We have incredible fire power and mixed ranges, so we will probably need to split our focus, move defensively,  and pick smaller targets to wipe out in turn 1-2. 

 

[plavski]

Really mobile, untouchable, and tough, with a large threat range and able to appear anywhere on the battlefield on a whim. I don't care if we're not number S-Tier Number 1, this is exactly the army I want KO to be. Scope for shenanigans, scope for different strategies, scope for crazy gimmick builds, scope for melee heavy, scope for shooting heavy, infantry heavy, ship heavy... It's a lovely buffet of choices and I don't know where to start! I'm gonna get so much mileage out of this book!

[Reuben Parker]

8 minutes ago, Nick907 said:

We don’t have to finish deployment first anymore, we can just pack into a corner and screen with arkanauts. I think smart opponents will force us to go first, so the strategy will be to proceed cautiously in round 1 most of the time.  We have the ability to clear objectives with shooting and move around but it will be harder to bank on the early double turn. This is okay and opponents will survive longer than they would otherwise. We have incredible fire power and mixed ranges, so we will probably need to split our focus, move defensively,  and pick smaller targets to wipe out in turn 1-2. 

 

This is the real weakness of high drop lists as I think 90% of the time I would prefer to play second especially with an army that’s not that strong in melee as it’s even harder for you to fight off the double turn. Part of the reason the bottle with a powerful endless spell maybe a great addition. If we go first in a round and cast the spell if they don’t / can’t unbind it and then double turn, you get to move and hit them with the endless spell again. 

 

Or we go second cast it they may want us to go first next round and double them just to stop the endless spell double dip especially if it’s something powerful. I’m actually mulling if purple sun is finally worth it in a KO bottle list. 

[Sinfullyvannila]

I don’t play KO yet, but I’m interested in a mixed dwarf army. How is the Sky City that lets you bring In Duardin from other factions? What kind of restrictions and disadvantages do the non-KO units suffer.

[Soolong]

3 hours ago, cofaxest said:

T'au xv8 shield generator?

 

Oh nice, thanks

[Gecktron]

Just now, Sinfullyvannila said:

I don’t play KO yet, but I’m interested in a mixed dwarf army. How is the Sky City that lets you bring In Duardin from other factions? What kind of restrictions and disadvantages do the non-KO units suffer.

Similar to Cities of Sigmar, for every 3 Kharadron Overlord units you can take a DUARDIN unit. 

[Nick907]

1 minute ago, Reuben Parker said:

This is the real weakness of high drop lists as I think 90% of the time I would prefer to play second especially with an army that’s not that strong in melee as it’s even harder for you to fight off the double turn. 

I think the early double turn with this new book would be too strong, since we would just sit back and delete the strongest stuff without taking any damage back until the end of turn 2. This just means we will have to pick our targets more carefully and utilize repair functions (at least with my build)

endrinmaster with balloons, Ironclad, gunhauler, 5x Thunderers w/rifles, 30x Endrinriggers w/ranged weapons. 

Going second with a double turn wouldn’t be much fun for my opponent.

[Boar]

3 hours ago, Eevika said:

Just did the math and a frigate with 10 Thunderers in it can deal 17 wounds to a 4+ save on avarage if you use gold to reroll 1s to hit in the shooting phase. Thats a keeper of the board in one shooting phase.

I get 9 wounds against 4+ save with no rerolls. If thunderers reroll to wound roll from gold it`s 11,5

[crkhobbit]

2 hours ago, Entombet said:

And it cost 130p more than him.

So?  The KoS is dead and you've lost nothing.  Now the opponent is down on points and has to try to catch up.

2 hours ago, cofaxest said:

But still you can do this with cp instead of aethergold. And if position your troops correctly you can finish the job on turn two.

Or use the Grundstok Escort Wing battalion and choose it as the battalion target to re-roll 1s to hit.  Or be Zilfin and re-roll 1s to hit against flyers (KoS doesn't fly unless they give him the thermalrider cloak, which they commonly do).

[cofaxest]

21 minutes ago, Boar said:

I get 9 wounds against 4+ save with no rerolls. If thunderers reroll to wound roll from gold it`s 11,5

I think it's combined with d6+4 shots with 3+/3+/-1/2 from frigate.

[Boar]

1 minute ago, cofaxest said:

I think it's combined with d6+4 shots with 3+/3+/-1/2 from frigate.

I counted those, frigate f.ex. deals on average 4,44 against 4+ save