AoS 2 - Fyreslayers Discussion

[Malakithe]

Well Blades are getting and updated book. Didnt hear or see that coming but that gives me hope for Fyreslayers and Ironjawz getting updates

[prochuvi]

Hnnn i am building the start collecting and omg guys fyreslayers are pretty hard to build.

In details,the keys,urgold symbols and throwing axes are HARD to glue to the waist.

Ohhh and the tail of the magmadroth was a hell,i have to finish to build it tomorrow(the head and the front legs) and i hope be easier than the tail

[celebrandas]

I feel you on that. The magmadroth was a pain to build, and I gave up on attaching anything but the arms and heads to my Fyreslayers because I couldn't get the addons to look good.

[Rollcage]

Gimme some Gotrek, Avatars of Grimnir and some Super powered Runemasters and an anvil of doom urgold style!

[novakai]

[kenshin620]

Back to back red factions!

Usual "Endless spells+terrain" release

 

[Malakithe]

YESSSSSS....updated warscrolls, battalions, allegiance, endless 'prayers' or whatever they are called, and a big angry living magma beast.

Id still like to see fyresteel forged cannons or something but super excited for all this

 

[Azamar]

I spent March painting a fyreslayers start collecting box, so this is rather good timing for me!

[Sonder]

They did say there might be more being announced. I really want some more unit options!

[Mikeymajq]

By Grimnirs fiery flatulence I really wanted that magma monster to be a unit not an endless spell, or an endless spell that functions like a unit you summon. That'd be so cool.

 

Edited March 28, 2019 by Mikeymajq

[Marrdt]

Just a small note about the video.
Unlike the other endless spells, the magma beast is positioned among the slayers even slightly behind some of them, rather than in front like the other spells or invocations are. If it was just a wave of magma with the face of a beast, it would make sense to place it in front of the units. As an additional point of meta discussion, the text "UNLEASH THE MAGMIC INVOCATIONS" in the video comes AFTER the beast is shown. The forge is also shown AFTER the text "SUMMON THE FURY OF THE FORGE". So it could be that they just used a different pattern and introduced the first prayer/spell/invocation before the text in one case, or it could have some additional semantic meaning as well.

That, combined with the text on the preview saying:

"After all, there are few problems on the battlefield that can’t be solved by a rampaging, magical salamander"

Makes me wonder whether they were really thinking about magmadroths or its like a clever text based hint (like the ones they sometimes give on rumor engines) as the beast does look a bit like a salamander. I'm thinking it could potentially be something like the "Avatar of Khaine" that the Daughters of Khaine have. 

But in worst case, we still get some cool endless prayer spells  to  accompany the slayers to battle, so it wouldn't be all that bad either way.

[angrycontra]

I do hope that salamander ends up being some kind of hybrid between unit and spell. Like it could be a unit that can only be summoned by fyreslayer priests and can disappear/be dispelled like other endless spells. 

Here's some other wishlisting: 

- Given that fyreslayers have so few units, I want every single option to be viable and well balanced. I don't want to see vulkite spam, auric spam or any other spam spam spam become de facto way to play fyreslayers.

- Non-hero magmadroth option. It could simply be runeson with axe (but not called runeson). It's lazy, but I don't want my magmies take every available hero slots.

- Easier to use battalions. I don't want any battalions that require 3 vulkites, aurics or whatever. 2 is fine but 3 takes too much army space (plus I don't want to buy more vulkites).

- Speaking of vulkites, they should function better without having to take 30 models. It's frustrating how underpowered they feel in small unit sizes.

[Malakithe]

45 minutes ago, angrycontra said:

I do hope that salamander ends up being some kind of hybrid between unit and spell. Like it could be a unit that can only be summoned by fyreslayer priests and can disappear/be dispelled like other endless spells. 

Here's some other wishlisting: 

- Given that fyreslayers have so few units, I want every single option to be viable and well balanced. I don't want to see vulkite spam, auric spam or any other spam spam spam become de facto way to play fyreslayers.

- Non-hero magmadroth option. It could simply be runeson with axe (but not called runeson). It's lazy, but I don't want my magmies take every available hero slots.

- Easier to use battalions. I don't want any battalions that require 3 vulkites, aurics or whatever. 2 is fine but 3 takes too much army space (plus I don't want to buy more vulkites).

- Speaking of vulkites, they should function better without having to take 30 models. It's frustrating how underpowered they feel in small unit sizes.

If there isnt new units then spamming is inevitable no matter what. Its a full faction with only 3 infantry units and one monster. Depending on battleline options, points, battalions Vulkites are the backbone.

Im fine with Vulkite swarming. What im not okay with is Vulkites being better at everything then the only 2 other options.

Im not a fan of the idea of mini droths. I think it would look goofy but any more variety ill take at this point.

[madmac]

I think the text of the preview all but confirms that non-hero Magmadroths will be a thing.

Aside from making all units viable, my one big ask for the new armybook is to make Fyreslayers a little more elite across the board. They would be much more bearable to both build and play as an army that isn't 90+ models minimum.

Make the Hearthguard units into true elite infantry, and maybe make the Vulkites a little less dependent on being fielded in blocks of 30.

Recent armybooks have had much more reasonable battalion requirements, but yes all the 1.0 battaltions requiring 3+ units that are only viable in huge blocks was ridiculous.

[kenshin620]

I mean just to temper expectations I wouldn't hope for too many new models since Fyreslayers are a Non-Herald army.

 

Perhaps one of the Lodges makes Magmadroth non-Behemoth kind of like FEC? Or not eat up Leader slots.

[Malakithe]

Each lodge is essentially made up of thousands of Vulkites. They pretty much do everything. The Hearthguard are basically body guard untils for dad and sons.

The way the game is now you kinda need those models to complete with other horde armies

[madmac]

1 hour ago, Malakithe said:

Each lodge is essentially made up of thousands of Vulkites. They pretty much do everything. The Hearthguard are basically body guard untils for dad and sons.

The way the game is now you kinda need those models to complete with other horde armies

Well yes, but it's also the ultimate stagnation of the army.

Going full Vulkites means buying, assembling and painting at least 90 fairly detailed but repetitive and mono-pose models, and means playing Fyreslayers is pretty much just pushing huge blobs of Vulkites around the board.  So many of the things that drag the army down ultimately come down to Vulkite spam and the lack of alternatives.

I fully expect the battletome will do it's best to give Fyreslayers the FEC treatment, and make every unit (Including Magmadroths) at least semi-viable as an army core.  It won't completely fix their problems, they still need units that aren't literally just samey-looking naked Dwarf and one Monster model, but it will help if they pull it off.  For an army with so few unit options, it's crucial that all of them be viable and present multiple army builds.

 

[Wraith01]

I really hope by the time they give a date for the new Fyreslayers Battletome they announce a few new units for the army. I want some cavalry (Vulkites on baby Magmadroths), a new behemoth and some ladies. 

[Thalassic Monstrosity]

8 hours ago, madmac said:

I fully expect the battletome will do it's best to give Fyreslayers the FEC treatment, and make every unit (Including Magmadroths) at least semi-viable as an army core. 

I'm hoping Fyreslayers rather get a list with some degree of flexibility so it isn't just the same list over and over and over again.

[Azamar]

I wonder, is it too early to start speculation on what changes are coming? Fyreslayers could be a funny one as they could hold out for themselves (thanks to vulkites) and really just need a few tweaks to improve the weaker units.

Apart from the obvious like all abilities becoming entirely within (might be awkward for the battlesmith), I’d most like to see:

1. heath guard bezerker improvements. It’s crazy how, in an army with three units, one of them still managed to be obsolete. For extra bonus points, I wouldn’t mind seeing their name changed- I’m sure there’s more than 4 different words that can be used for fyreslayer units! 

2. Runemaster improvements. He’s so offensively bad your opponent ought to be paying the points for him. 

3. Heroes with an unbind, and with any luck that can dispel endless spells. Will probably tie in with 2 I suspect. 

4. It’s a long shot but some kind of defensive boost for heroes. I half wonder if they’ll make the 6+ invun save an allegiance ability, with the Berzerker units getting bonuses under certain conditions as before. 

I have wondered if they might redo everything from the ground up, even the stuff that works. For example, if every warscroll including vulkites was updated with a more elite profile (and points cost), dropping the model count and lowering the cost of entry, maybe more players would be likely to take up the army? That might be wishful thinking in my part- I’ve painted 30 vulkites and there’s no way I’d ever want to paint another 60!

 

[kenshin620]

19 minutes ago, Azamar said:

2. Runemaster improvements. He’s so offensively bad your opponent ought to be paying the points for him. 

3. Heroes with an unbind, and with any luck that can dispel endless spells. Will probably tie in with 2 I suspect.

Yea I'm pretty sure theres going to be Priest shenanigans going on (full on prayer table baby!). I don't think any army will not have wizards/priests at this point.

 

Except maybe KO. They'll maybe have a Khemist table!

Edited March 28, 2019 by kenshin620

[Azamar]

7 minutes ago, kenshin620 said:

Yea I'm pretty sure theres going to be Priest shenanigans going on (full on prayer table baby!). I don't think any army will not have wizards/priests at this point.

 

Except maybe KO. They'll maybe have a Khemist table!

That genuinely hadn’t crossed my mind- that could be really interesting. 

For KO I’d rather they gave the navigator something to do. But if the fyreslayer priests learn how to dispel endless spells they’ll be a shoe in for allies for my KO.

[Chikout]

I really wouldn't get your hopes up for new kits beyond what we have seen. While it is a shame that we won't see mini magmadroths or a golem unit, I do think that endless spell monster is the best one yet. 

The scenery piece also looks great.  

I would like to see some unridden magmadroths as a new unit type and a big buff to the elite infantry to let people build competitive armies with fewer models if they want. 

Edited March 29, 2019 by Chikout

[Malakithe]

5 hours ago, Azamar said:

I wonder, is it too early to start speculation on what changes are coming? Fyreslayers could be a funny one as they could hold out for themselves (thanks to vulkites) and really just need a few tweaks to improve the weaker units.

Apart from the obvious like all abilities becoming entirely within (might be awkward for the battlesmith), I’d most like to see:

1. heath guard bezerker improvements. It’s crazy how, in an army with three units, one of them still managed to be obsolete. For extra bonus points, I wouldn’t mind seeing their name changed- I’m sure there’s more than 4 different words that can be used for fyreslayer units! 

2. Runemaster improvements. He’s so offensively bad your opponent ought to be paying the points for him. 

3. Heroes with an unbind, and with any luck that can dispel endless spells. Will probably tie in with 2 I suspect. 

4. It’s a long shot but some kind of defensive boost for heroes. I half wonder if they’ll make the 6+ invun save an allegiance ability, with the Berzerker units getting bonuses under certain conditions as before. 

I have wondered if they might redo everything from the ground up, even the stuff that works. For example, if every warscroll including vulkites was updated with a more elite profile (and points cost), dropping the model count and lowering the cost of entry, maybe more players would be likely to take up the army? That might be wishful thinking in my part- I’ve painted 30 vulkites and there’s no way I’d ever want to paint another 60!

 

I hope for sweeping changes across the board. Ive been saying for a while that almost every warscroll and battalion needs a full rework.

I want to see the rune/hair save be an allegiance ability. Lore to tabletop is very inconsistent here as some units get the ++ save while others dont. I think the faction as a whole needs a 5++ but then each warscroll could have an ability or not that modifies it. Example being Vulkites would get +1 to their save for over 20+ or whatever. Same with HB. If they are near a hero theirs would gain +1. All the heroes need an additional save as well since they are probably the weakest/squishiest heroes in the game currently. 

Im hoping for 'prayers' that sort of enhance the runes as well. 

I really want more units like everyone else otherwise no matter how many changes and battalions or abilities the faction will still be 2x30 Vulkites, fill every hero slot, then whatever. I really want to see some cannons etched with ur-gold runes!  

[Hungsolo]

I expect that’ll be it until there is a slayers vs. boxset somewhere down the line.  

I highly doubt they’ll crash the Vulkite Berserker market but there are going to be alternatives for the 360 points one block of 30 was going to fill on lists.

I expect lodges will have unique bonuses that emphasize different synergies like other recent battletomes.

Yay warscrolls!