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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Fyreslayers Discussion

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1 hour ago, sloane_paints_stuff said:

Only one Fyreslayers player at Blood and Glory... why no representation? Is the uphill in 2.0 that steep for us?

I can take a broad guess with an even broader brush. Fyreslayers are in a state that many factions across AoS and 40k are in right now. They've been figured out. Everything you could ever possibly do effectively with the Fyreslayers has been tried and tested and in certain tournament scenarios, found wanting. You throw as many V. Beserkers on the table as you can, back them up with some buffing heroes, and pray to Grimnir that you'll survive the coming turns with your awesome saving throws and FNPs.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Fyreslayers. They are naked dwarfs with mohawks that throw axes at people one minute, then grabs another axe from their loin cloth to swing with in combat. They are awesome.

But they are an older AoS army with a poorly written tome that has been around for a long time. Thanks to GHB they've become fairly good in the right hands, but it isn't enough. I believe in the competitive scene Fyreslayers aren't that interesting or strong enough a choice, people are bored of them.

...

That or it just so happened no one who attended B&D wanted to play Fyreslayers this time. Who knows, I'm just a skeleton! Ho ho ho!

Edited by CaptainSoup
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1 minute ago, CaptainSoup said:

I can take a broad guess with an even broader brush. Fyreslayers are in a state that many factions across AoS and 40k are in right now. They've been figured out. Everything you could ever possibly do effectively with the Fyreslayers has been tried and tested and in certain tournament scenarios, found wanting. You throw as many V. Beserkers on the table as you can, back them up with some buffing heroes, and pray to Grimnir that you'll survive the coming turns with your awesome saving throws and FNPs.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE Fyreslayers. They are naked dwarfs with mohawks that throw axes at people one minute, then grabs another axe from their loin cloth to swing with in combat. They are awesome.

But they are an older AoS army with a poorly written tome that has been around for a long time. Thanks to GHB they've become fairly good in the right hands, but it isn't enough. I believe in the competitive scene Fyreslayers aren't that interesting or strong enough a choice, they're bored of them.

...

That or it just so happened no one who attended B&D wanted to play Fyreslayers this time. Who knows, I'm just a skeleton! Ho ho ho!

So you think it's more a case of "its a faction you can see a mile away with no new tactics, very predictable and any competitive person would know how to counter in a tournament setting" rather than the usual "we have no magic so we're useless this meta"? Because I definitely am inclined to agree with you! I don't think on paper slayers are all that different to how we were last edition, its more just a case if you want to win a tournament (and B&G is a big deal tourny for competitive types) you'd take the more competitive factions.

As someone who has played a fair bit of competitive games run by a smart company i'm no stranger to revolving meta to up sales and what not but oh man do I hate it! haha i'm a romantic at heart and just want to run my beloved dwarfs and not feel like i've handicapped myself by running them despite taking the most tactical list I can formulate.

Maybe narrative is for me haha

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3 minutes ago, sloane_paints_stuff said:

So you think it's more a case of "its a faction you can see a mile away with no new tactics, very predictable and any competitive person would know how to counter in a tournament setting" rather than the usual "we have no magic so we're useless this meta"? Because I definitely am inclined to agree with you! I don't think on paper slayers are all that different to how we were last edition, its more just a case if you want to win a tournament (and B&G is a big deal tourny for competitive types) you'd take the more competitive factions.

As someone who has played a fair bit of competitive games run by a smart company i'm no stranger to revolving meta to up sales and what not but oh man do I hate it! haha i'm a romantic at heart and just want to run my beloved dwarfs and not feel like i've handicapped myself by running them despite taking the most tactical list I can formulate.

Maybe narrative is for me haha

I guess that's one way of putting it, yeah lol.

Some magic denial would be nice for dwarfs, but at the end of the day it won't make or break anything, especially with the bread and butter VBs having an awesome defense. If you had to tho you can throw in one of those new zappy Stormcasts as an ally. An expensive magic denial but one none the less.

Like I said 40k has a very similar issue with some of their factions. Dark Angels for example are very figured out right now. There are one or two ways to build them and that's it, and its decent at best in the right hands just like Fyreslayers.

We can hope for upcoming changes to help but realistically GW is probably happy with the way Fyreslayers are right now and unless there is a mass exodus coming for older battlestomes, then I guess poor old Fyreslayers have to take the "L" this time.

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1 minute ago, CaptainSoup said:

I guess that's one way of putting it, yeah lol.

Some magic denial would be nice for dwarfs, but at the end of the day it won't make or break anything, especially with the bread and butter VBs having an awesome defense. If you had to tho you can throw in one of those new zappy Stormcasts as an ally. An expensive magic denial but one none the less.

Like I said 40k has a very similar issue with some of their factions. Dark Angels for example are very figured out right now. There are one or two ways to build them and that's it, and its decent at best in the right hands just like Fyreslayers.

We can hope for upcoming changes to help but realistically GW is probably happy with the way Fyreslayers are right now and unless there is a mass exodus coming for older battlestomes, then I guess poor old Fyreslayers have to take the "L" this time.

Yea there are options if you really want to push it into magic but honestly there's not a lot that we'd want from a spell caster outside of clutch dispells. We get a lot of buffs on our own as is

It's hopeful and probably clutching at straws but rumours abound of new tomes keep my fyre stoked haha

It's not going to stop me finishing my 2k fyreslayers list though of course!

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4 minutes ago, sloane_paints_stuff said:

Yea there are options if you really want to push it into magic but honestly there's not a lot that we'd want from a spell caster outside of clutch dispells. We get a lot of buffs on our own as is

It's hopeful and probably clutching at straws but rumours abound of new tomes keep my fyre stoked haha

It's not going to stop me finishing my 2k fyreslayers list though of course!

Indeed! I got some burly dwarfs to paint myself. I'm thinking a burning blue kind of mohawk...

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On 11/6/2018 at 10:53 PM, CaptainSoup said:

Indeed! I got some burly dwarfs to paint myself. I'm thinking a burning blue kind of mohawk...

Can confirm the blue mohawks look amazing. 

 

I've done some of my heroes and hearthguard berzerkers with blue mohawks, to go a long with my white and blue magmadroth.  Give the whole army a fyre and ice theme. 

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I think it's the fact that it is small faction (unit wise) with little variety and is expensive to collect as much as anything. One new dual-kit for Fyreslayers and Ironjawz would make both much more collectible and interesting to play. Ironjawz have remained more popular because there are no real alternatives in Destruction since release. Just my opinions of course.

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I'll admit that I've been a large fan of the reimaged Duardin in Age of Sigmar from a fluff point. Both the Kharadron Overlords and Fyreslayers took a fresh perspective on "dwarfs" that was refreshing from the tolkein-esque standard that we've come to know in the genre.

From what I've seen locally, which isn't a hyper competitive crowd but likes a good scrap, fyreslayers never tend to do badly but also never tend to win spectacularly. This is partly because I agree with previous statements that the fyreslayers currently are a one trick pony: an extremely reliable pony in what they do (ie hordes of vulkite berserkers get in close and force multiply the grind until they win), but a pony that people have figured out due to time. Being a small, on release faction with three non-hero units (of which two are reliable and the third not so much), its hard not to be a one trick pony compared to newer factions like daughters of Khaine that have seven non-hero units and four "themed battalions" to play with.

I don't think any immediate fixes are warranted as Fyreslayers are not in dire straits, but an additional two units to the lineup, a re-review of the Hearthguard Beserkers and runemaster and a few additional lodge batallions or themes in line with  the Kharadron Overlords format would go a long way to reinvigorate the faction.

Edited by Malios

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I think giving Hearthguard Berzerkers two attacks baseline would be a good way to go. Give Runemaster and Runesmiter access to a "Lore of Grimnir" style list of prayers, similar to the Lord-Relictor from Stormcast or the Slaughter-Priests from Khorne. Give Runemaster some better rules in general, particularly an unbind. Give us the "chapter tactics" rules all new factions have gotten for our lodges. Make Grimwrath Berzerkers a unit instead of a hero, 0-1 for the entire army, retain the same points cost but make it something like a unit of 1-5 hero models. Three Grimwraths would be 240 points for a unit that has 18 wounds, and can put out some serious hurt.

All that could be done without releasing new models, just a new tome ( or hell, an FAQ update, though that would be too nice even for new-GW). A single dual-kit that adds something like a chariot drawn by smaller magma dragons that can be built as either a heavy melee chariot or some kind of ranged one with a goblin-hewer-esque axe thrower on the back would be cool, and fit the "barbarian" aesthetic of the fyreslayers.

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On 11/7/2018 at 1:47 AM, sloane_paints_stuff said:

It's hopeful and probably clutching at straws but rumours abound of new tomes keep my fyre stoked haha

Speaking of new tomes... as a store co-owner we currently can't order fyreslayer battletomes or skaven and a few others because they are being updated for 2.0. This is what we were told by our GW rep at least.

 

I am very new to the hobby but I am having a ton of fun with the fyreslayers.

 

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4 hours ago, Gmburg said:

Speaking of new tomes... as a store co-owner we currently can't order fyreslayer battletomes or skaven and a few others because they are being updated for 2.0. This is what we were told by our GW rep at least. 

What others? Please tell. 

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5 hours ago, Gmburg said:

Speaking of new tomes... as a store co-owner we currently can't order fyreslayer battletomes or skaven and a few others because they are being updated for 2.0. This is what we were told by our GW rep at least.

 

I am very new to the hobby but I am having a ton of fun with the fyreslayers.

 

If this is true then at the very least they'll update the books to match what has been in the last few GHBs. If we're lucky they'll put in other updates as the assumed new books come out but I wouldn't hold your breath too long.

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What I believe Fyreslayers need to be more popular among players is more diversity in their ranks. Painting 70-or-so naked dwarfs is hard for me to imagine. Some magmadroth cavalery, fire golems, earth/fire/magma elementals, more focus on runes. Something that stands out of their current range. 

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On 11/11/2018 at 12:09 PM, Aryann said:

What I believe Fyreslayers need to be more popular among players is more diversity in their ranks. Painting 70-or-so naked dwarfs is hard for me to imagine.

That´s the reason why I´ve refused to collect them. Second reason is that I would like to field an army mixed of Fyreslayers and Sylvaneth (love them both due to the look of the models) but I simply can´t find a nice list...

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