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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Fyreslayers Discussion

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Kaz said:

HELLOOOO DWARVEN FRIENDS!!!!

dont tell the Khorne guys I’m here, they’re gonna kill me.

How expensive do you feel the infantry will get points wise with these changes? I’ve actually been waiting for a chance to play more elite Fyreslayers 

in terms of hearthguarf Berserkers, with the extra attack, assuming that th ability stays the same for flamestrike poleaxe, which is generally the better weapon in most cases? 

I won't tell if you don't 😂

Too soon to say on the points.  Vulkites I could see stay about the same. The others... No clue. But it's hard to say without the full warscrolls etc.  H.berzerkers will probably go up. Depends a lot on if they keep their save-after-save I think.  The extra attack fixes my main issue with them thankfully. 

I love both options (in the old warscroll). If the flamestrike stays the same.. I can only imagine it changing because of the extra attack as it would double their Mw output if it didn't. 

Edited by Mikeymajq

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, Kaz said:

HELLOOOO DWARVEN FRIENDS!!!!

dont tell the Khorne guys I’m here, they’re gonna kill me.

How expensive do you feel the infantry will get points wise with these changes? I’ve actually been waiting for a chance to play more elite Fyreslayers 

in terms of hearthguarf Berserkers, with the extra attack, assuming that th ability stays the same for flamestrike poleaxe, which is generally the better weapon in most cases? 

I think they'll get more expense, but I don't see the point increase being too crazy.  Vulkites i imagine will remain the same.  If the rumours are true, they will be losing the inv. save, but getting another wound, IMO that's pretty much a wash.  Berzerker fury is a nice ability, but only OPG, so i cant seeing it impacting their points too much.

Hearthguard berzerkers will probably see the biggest points increase, my guess would be around 160-180 range. To be fair, im pulling that number out of my ass.   I use 5-10 with broadaxes, and then 5-10 with the poleaxes.  I think have both because they are good at dealing with different things.

Curious to see what changes the Battlesmith gets, if any.  I think it would be cool if instead of re rolls to saves, to gave 6" within bubble of 6+ inv. save. 

Edited by CentralKarma

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I am alone seeing how we are getting some huge nerfs?

They have told us how insane tanky we are now with one extra wound,also how great is the one per game rune of throwing with the +1 to hig and so.

Also the extra attack with hearthguard

 

But........as allways in those previews they are all lies.

 

They didnt told us as we have lost the 50% save after save than cancel 100% the extra wound(make maths,50% after save is 100% the same than 100% more wounds)

Also they didnt told us nothing about how all our shooting axes have been nerfed HARD and now it is 5 hit and 5 wound.so this huge buffs of the rune is useless and they have nerfed all our shooting.

 

In general we are better now?i am not sure,we havent got buffs in our tankyness,neither our dps(pretty sure we have lost the battallion of atack twice of hearthguard cancelling this buff and doing it the same than before with the battallion) but we have got a HUGE nerf to our shooting axes.

 

Sure now we can field vulkites as 10 because we dont get nothing of field 30 and now we dont need use battalion tomattack twice of hearthguard.those are buffs.

But those are minor buffs that wont get us from middle\lower tier to the tier of aos2 battletomes.

 

In general all that we know is very bad news and i hope we get some huge bufs in our way or we are ******

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Fyreslayers are coming!!! Let me use my Magmadroths (and not feel bad about using them) !!! 3 Magmadroths spewing mortal wound breaths and murdering poor sods with claws and horns. 

I was hoping for a bigger buff on the broadaxe hearthguard since... I got 30 of them but that'll do. 

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Yeah farsight looks like a nerf, but maybe a priest / a lodge gives a buff to axes that means you have to specialize to get a rain of axe spam. 5's and 5's really doesn't seem worth it.

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1 hour ago, prochuvi said:

I am alone seeing how we are getting some huge nerfs?

They have told us how insane tanky we are now with one extra wound,also how great is the one per game rune of throwing with the +1 to hig and so.

Also the extra attack with hearthguard

 

But........as allways in those previews they are all lies.

 

They didnt told us as we have lost the 50% save after save than cancel 100% the extra wound(make maths,50% after save is 100% the same than 100% more wounds)

Also they didnt told us nothing about how all our shooting axes have been nerfed HARD and now it is 5 hit and 5 wound.so this huge buffs of the rune is useless and they have nerfed all our shooting.

 

In general we are better now?i am not sure,we havent got buffs in our tankyness,neither our dps(pretty sure we have lost the battallion of atack twice of hearthguard cancelling this buff and doing it the same than before with the battallion) but we have got a HUGE nerf to our shooting axes.

 

Sure now we can field vulkites as 10 because we dont get nothing of field 30 and now we dont need use battalion tomattack twice of hearthguard.those are buffs.

But those are minor buffs that wont get us from middle\lower tier to the tier of aos2 battletomes.

 

In general all that we know is very bad news and i hope we get some huge bufs in our way or we are ******

First of all, based on rumours, only vulkites lose their beard saves and considering that everyone and their mother were asking for better vulkites at min size units, 2 wounds should deliver that easily. This fact alone will not only save points for fyreslayers (as we will no longer need full units of 30) but it will also allow fyreslayers to spread out their forces more easily (since instead of having 3 big blobs, we can have 3-5 smaller groups, mixed with other fyreslayer units.) Which is good as objective game has always been one of the biggest weaknesses of this army.

Secondly, aurics are getting massive buff. 2 wounds for them is quite literally 100% survivability buff for them and that is exactly what they need.

Thirdly, how do you even know that we're losing hg berz battalion? Fec has flayers battalion that allows pile in and attack in hero phase, why wouldn't fyreslayers have one? Further more, having 2 attacks (at 2" range) immediately is so much better than having to survive into hero phase and then pile in and attack (plus that requires battalion and only one unit can benefit from it). Finally, if the rumours are true, hg berzerkers have both their slayer saves and their 2 wounds, which is huge boost for their overall survival.

And let's not forget that the 2 prayers they have shown are already pretty damn powerful (pile in and attack with hero, +1 save) and god only knows what else is there. Magmadroth traits are interesting plus they haven't even shown hero changes (you know command abilities etc.).

Now sure throwing axes got nerfed, whoop-de-doo, they never were that big part of fyreslayer damage to begin with (outside of maybe warrior kinband). I'm expectingvsome point increases too but considering that aurics got 100% survival boost (and most likely 100% dam boost against monsters) while hg berzerkers got 100% damage boost while possibly also getting 100% survival boost, some point increases are more than justified.

So yes, based on everything I've seen, and based on other comments, you are probably the only one seeing doom and gloom here. Stop looking into it so negatively. The biggest issue with fyreslayers has always been that they were one trick pony, vulkite spam was the only competetive way to play. It's obvious from these previews alone that that will change.

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Is it unfair to say Hearthguard Berzerkers are getting 4 times as choppy? Extra attack + 2" range means 4 attacks per 32cm as opposed to 1? Seems huge.

If they can make the army more elite, as in play with fewer models, jack up their offense  (ya know, the SLAYER part of fyreslayer) and make multiple archetypes playable I'd say they can call the book a success. Based on previews so far they're pushing a HeroHammer archetype, which is right in Fyreslayers' wheelhouse.

Pretty hyped. Dark Iron Fyreslayers is now project #1 for me.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Kaz said:

HELLOOOO DWARVEN FRIENDS!!!!

dont tell the Khorne guys I’m here, they’re gonna kill me.

How expensive do you feel the infantry will get points wise with these changes? I’ve actually been waiting for a chance to play more elite Fyreslayers 

in terms of hearthguarf Berserkers, with the extra attack, assuming that th ability stays the same for flamestrike poleaxe, which is generally the better weapon in most cases? 

Obviously purely speculation at this point, but my guess would be 160-180 points per 10 vulkites and 120 -130 points per 5 hearthguard.

vulkites will go up a fair old bit, I suspect- with 2 wounds they’re similar to tzaangors, who are 180 points for 10, so I’d be surprised if they’re much cheaper than that.

Hearthguard are harder to predict- 100 points for 5x 1 wound and 1 attack models was heavily overpriced to start with, so I don’t think they’ll go up as much as vulkites. Auric hearthguard I suspect will be a similar cost. 

Edit- I’m assuming the hearthguard are keeping their extra save in this case. 

 

 

Edited by Azamar

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5 hours ago, prochuvi said:

I am alone seeing how we are getting some huge nerfs?

Just wait 4 days, to test a tome we usually need a couple of major event, you are panicking with just 2 boxes of preview. Be patient! If you have doubts do not buy the tome, complaining now will not change the words printed in China 3 months ago.

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I was extremely deflated at the distinct lack of any new models at announcement - barring Endless Spells Prayers - but the potential for more elite, less blobby Fyreslayers has... ahem, rekindled my excitement. I'm also a sucker for faction-specific dice and as somebody who's regretted missing out on the old LotR rune dice, I'll snap these ones up.

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Hah, I like how the Zharrgron Flame-spitter is basically a turret you place xD

Otherwise nothing to bonkers in the endless spells department unless I'm missing something. I was hoping the Molten Infernoth would have behaved more like a unit of sorts but oh well. Yesterdays preview was so big that todays just made me shrug (our local group has yet to use an endless spell). 

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I was hoping for maximum bonkers from the Infernoth also, but it's not bad at all. Only a 3+ to summon, so it's reliable, unlike the 5+ you need for the khorne axe. Also, it's roll 12 dice for every unit within 3 inches of where it stops, so you can roll into a blob of enemy units and do quite a bit of carnage. The + Bravery is always nice to have on Fyreslayers also, I've been brutalized by the battleshock phase enough times to appreciate it.

(And like all endless prayers, it can't be dispelled, can't be controlled by the enemy, won't hurt your guys, ect. It's better than most predatory endless spells straight up)

The wall is simple but cool, I like that you can use it to shield Magmadroths and then have them walk right over it.

The Flame-spitter is definitely the star of the show, though. Straight up a howitzer for your Runemaster, I love it.

 

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11 minutes ago, Mikeymajq said:

Hah, I like how the Zharrgron Flame-spitter is basically a turret you place xD

Yeah, it sounds amazing, I can't wait!  Horde killing machine for sure.

I'm a little confused by the text on the runic wall though.  It says magmadroths can move past it like a model with fly, but it doesn't say its impassable on the warscroll.  I must be missing something

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2 minutes ago, CentralKarma said:

Yeah, it sounds amazing, I can't wait!  Horde killing machine for sure.

I'm a little confused by the text on the runic wall though.  It says magmadroths can move past it like a model with fly, but it doesn't say its impassable on the warscroll.  I must be missing something

I missed that, but probably just means they don't lose any movement going up and over like a ground unit moving over terrain normally would.

Also relevant for this thread:

https://twitter.com/_devianttactics/status/1115537555624218625

confirmation Vulkites lose the invuln save but other units still have it.

 

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The wall is the best one of the three, I think.

A Prismatic Palisade that can't be dispelled is very strong. The fact that it gives every unit around it a Mystic Shield effect is icing on the cake, and Magmadroths being able to move over it is the cherry on top.

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Posted (edited)

Yeah the wall is amazing for sure.  I'm just wondering if it is or isn't passable.  The magmadroth rule makes it seem that the intent was to make it impassable, but doesn't say.

But it will be great for objectives.  Mystic shield plus protection from range attacks.  If it is impassable it would be amazing for board control.

Wonder what the points will be on these

I'm fine with them losing it.  As others have said, I'd rather not take them in blocks of 30.  If units of 10 are still effective, I'd be happy

Edited by CentralKarma
spelling mistakes

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Wall is impassable, all Endless Spells/Judgements/Invocations are considered Units/Models and therefore cannot be moved onto/over. 

My main issue with the Wall is that if you go second in the Battle Round, it could just pop off the board at the end of your turn and you get no use out of it. 

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so it look unit still have their aftersave but not Vulkites

bump in offensive ability aparently

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I feel this Battletome is a huge step in the right direction for the army :D
Can we get some more models down the line too please?

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15 minutes ago, Requizen said:

Wall is impassable, all Endless Spells/Judgements/Invocations are considered Units/Models and therefore cannot be moved onto/over. 

My main issue with the Wall is that if you go second in the Battle Round, it could just pop off the board at the end of your turn and you get no use out of it. 

We'll have to see how reliable Invocations are and how many points they cost. If they're like Judgements that only remain on a 5+ then it won't be worth be worthwhile.

Fyreslayers seem to be more in control than a bunch of cannibals, so I have high hopes.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Mikeymajq said:

I feel this Battletome is a huge step in the right direction for the army :D
Can we get some more models down the line too please?

Not gonna lie, I'm feeling pretty smug on settling for 40 vulkites and 20 Hearthguard Berserkers right now.  Not needing to buy 50 more vulkites feels almost as good as getting new models, at least for this week.

I think I'm definitely going to grab at least one more Grimwrath Berserker, and maaaaybe one more Magmadroth, but I need to see how all the magmadroth focused stuff shakes out first. It's not like having 3 droths isn't a solid chunk already.

In terms of long term army planning, mostly just want to see the battalions and point costs now.

Edited by madmac
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The Infernoth looks to be the most underwhelming of the three on paper, which is a shame as it’s the best looking (and remains the main reason I’ll pick them up.) 

im surprised they’re all 3+ to cast as I’m sure the khorne ones are harder than that? Although I guess khorne have free access to rerolls from terrain to make up for that. 

Still would rather see anti magic rather than totally-not-spells but I’m still hoping the runemaster has learned some new tricks. 

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Am I reading them wrong or are Fyreslayers gonna be able to put out 24 dice worth of MWs in each  hero phase. Flame spewer AND the Inferno.

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17 minutes ago, ShaneHobbes said:

Am I reading them wrong or are Fyreslayers gonna be able to put out 24 dice worth of MWs in each  hero phase. Flame spewer AND the Inferno.

More, potentially, since the Infernoth hits all units with 3. 

But the Infernoth is only on 6s, and has to get in range, and the Spewer is on 6s unless it's a big enough unit, so it's not going to be as many as you think.

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18 minutes ago, Requizen said:

More, potentially, since the Infernoth hits all units with 3. 

But the Infernoth is only on 6s, and has to get in range, and the Spewer is on 6s unless it's a big enough unit, so it's not going to be as many as you think.

I don't think the range is going to be a huge issue.  It sounds like Runesmiters are going to be able to use prayers.  Doesn't seem crazy that a Runesmiter on magmadroth will be close enough to the action to summon it close to enemies.

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