AoS 2 - Fyreslayers Discussion

[Gdead909]

6 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

😱😱😱😱

Trying to keep the local scene with different armies. Traded Thanquol and a WLC to a local guy so I can still get my teeth kicked in by models I know lol

[Gdead909]

G

Edited April 4, 2019 by Gdead909
Extra posts

[Gdead909]

6 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

😱😱😱😱

 

Edited April 4, 2019 by Gdead909
Extra posts

[Gdead909]

6 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

😱😱😱😱

 

Edited April 4, 2019 by Gdead909
Extra posts

[Gdead909]

6 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

😱😱😱😱

 

Edited April 4, 2019 by Gdead909
Extra posts

[Azamar]

1 hour ago, TheadTheOgorSlayer said:

So any news on the new book? I’ve been looking everyday for leaks and info

Anyone’s guess at this point I think. Might be another 2 weeks of 40k chaos releases  then fyreslayers around Easter, but maybe we’ll see some previews sooner 

[Forrix]

I'm not sure what his source is but Tom on Warhammer Weekly was saying that Fyreslayers are getting a major overhaul rule wise with Vulkites possibly losing their save after the save but gaining an extra wound. Personally I'm hoping for a much more elite glass cannon style army. 

[dirkdragonslayer]

On 3/31/2019 at 5:21 PM, TheadTheOgorSlayer said:

Is fyreslayers not a common army? This thread is barren compared to the other TGA allegiance threads

The problem with Fyreslayers (and other early AoS armies like Ironjawz) is that they don’t have a lot of variety. When compared to newer faction armies like Idoneth, Beastmen, and Gloomspite, there isn’t much choice in models. You have Vulkites, Hearthguard Berzerkers, and Hearthguard fire-pike guys. Everything else is a hero. Not everyone wants to have 2000 points of similarly posed naked Dwarfs, and they are really expensive for an army. 60$ for a naked horde unit is too much. If they had some more units for options; Demi-Magmadroth Cavalry, Flame Cannons, etc., I think they would be more popular.

I think it’s a big shame they didn’t combine it with the Dispossessed as two halfs of the same Battletome, like they did with Skaven. Dispossessed covered traditional holds dedicated to Grungni, with Fyreslayers and their lodges covering the worship of Grimnir. It would help both factions by giving more variety in unit options.

[dirkdragonslayer]

On 3/31/2019 at 5:21 PM, TheadTheOgorSlayer said:

Accidentally double posted, now my phone and TGA are having a bad day and won’t let me delete this text box, or type outside it.

Edited April 4, 2019 by dirkdragonslayer
Something is up with TGA today...

[madmac]

49 minutes ago, Forrix said:

I'm not sure what his source is but Tom on Warhammer Weekly was saying that Fyreslayers are getting a major overhaul rule wise with Vulkites possibly losing their save after the save but gaining an extra wound. Personally I'm hoping for a much more elite glass cannon style army. 

It's an interesting thought experiment, Fyreslayers currently are a horde army that is extremely durable (for Vulkites anyway) with weak monsters and combat heroes but a lot of support buffs.  Vulkites are versatile and tanky but typically don't output a lot of damage on any given round, Hearthguard have fairly steady but low mortal wound output, Magmadroths are squishy and dragged down by gimmicky rules that don't work most of the time, Runefathers and Runesons just have bad combat profiles.

2.0 Rulebooks on the whole so far are tilted more towards being extremely killy, lots of mortal wounds or high regular damage, ect.

They're also more build focused, you have basically a clan equivalent devoted to buffing every unit type individually, so that Vulkite Focused, Hearthguard Berserkers, Auric Hearthguard, and Magmadroths will probably all get a clan to give players an easy way to focus on that unit type. Likely with Volstag as the default hold with more generalized bonuses.

If Fyreslayers are being heavily overhauled it's probably not unrealistic to assume they're going to be more damage focused overall, even if their staying power gets reduced slightly to compensate.

Edited April 4, 2019 by madmac

[Chikout]

On 4/1/2019 at 6:21 AM, TheadTheOgorSlayer said:

Is fyreslayers not a common army? This thread is barren compared to the other TGA allegiance threads

Price is a major issue. The cheapest possible 2000 point build , maxing out on start collecting boxes comes in at £360. This can’t make a particularly well optimised list as the magmadroths are not that great. By contrast you can make a decently competitive fec list for £165. Also the sculpts are not the best and they lack variety. 

There are definitely ways to make the book better. Improving the magmadroths and making the whole army more elite would help with the price issue and the performance issue. Like many I was hoping for some more units but the terrrain but the incantations should help a little with the variety issue. 

[Forrix]

In my opinion the current rules don't fit the lore and look of the models. I'd expect an army of hard hitting but fragile (by duardin standards at least) elite warriors instead of a tide of mediocre, low damage output but tough as nails dudes. I've been in the camp of no new models = dead on arrival but the more I think about it a comprehensive rules rewrite could do a lot.

[Azamar]

1 hour ago, Forrix said:

I'm not sure what his source is but Tom on Warhammer Weekly was saying that Fyreslayers are getting a major overhaul rule wise with Vulkites possibly losing their save after the save but gaining an extra wound. Personally I'm hoping for a much more elite glass cannon style army. 

Tom made the same comment on the last page as well.

 

I’m not great at mathhammer, but wouldn’t 2 wounds each make units of 10-19 vulkites more durable overall compared to the invun save? It would be less favourable for units of 20+ I think, although if you roll like I do then the extra wound might be more reliable. 

 

Each to their own but I think I would prefer fyreslayers to stay on the tougher side rather than glass cannons. I like my dwarfs in the hard to kill variety.

[madmac]

I mean, a unit of 2 wound models with a 5+ or 4+ (with shields) re-rolling, isn't exactly made of glass. It just makes them a touch weaker against mortal wounds, mostly.

I think Fyreslayers should be tough-KO are made of glass, and it just feels wrong for heavily armored Duardin. That said, they could definitely stand to hit harder on a per model basis, it's weird to see a horde of rune empowered berserkers with a huge axe in each hand rolling dozens of dice and dealing out like 4 wounds.

Basically they just need to be more elite and less on the cannon fodder spectrum. That's really at the heart of most of the Fyreslayer problems, old, bad warscrolls that have been fighting years of power-creep with point drops as their only weapon.

[CentralKarma]

Personally I'd like them to keep their ++ save.  Both hearthguard units should be 2 wounds each I think, but I'm fine with the vulkites staying at 1 wound.

 

I'd also like to see the ++ save be a faction wide ability on a 6, similar to deathless minions.  Then berzerker units could further buff that, like they do now.  

Mortal wounds are becoming more common, with more armies able to dish them out.  It would be too bad if fyreslayers lost their ability to shrug some of them off.

[peasant]

2 hours ago, CentralKarma said:

Personally I'd like them to keep their ++ save.  Both hearthguard units should be 2 wounds each I think, but I'm fine with the vulkites staying at 1 wound.

 

I'd also like to see the ++ save be a faction wide ability on a 6, similar to deathless minions.  Then berzerker units could further buff that, like they do now.  

Mortal wounds are becoming more common, with more armies able to dish them out.  It would be too bad if fyreslayers lost their ability to shrug some of them off.

A fluffy rule could be substract 1 from damage of each attack (min 1) to reflect one single fyreslayer bravely shielding their conrades with his own life

[TheadTheOgorSlayer]

7 hours ago, dirkdragonslayer said:

The problem with Fyreslayers (and other early AoS armies like Ironjawz) is that they don’t have a lot of variety. When compared to newer faction armies like Idoneth, Beastmen, and Gloomspite, there isn’t much choice in models. You have Vulkites, Hearthguard Berzerkers, and Hearthguard fire-pike guys. Everything else is a hero. Not everyone wants to have 2000 points of similarly posed naked Dwarfs, and they are really expensive for an army. 60$ for a naked horde unit is too much. If they had some more units for options; Demi-Magmadroth Cavalry, Flame Cannons, etc., I think they would be more popular.

I think it’s a big shame they didn’t combine it with the Dispossessed as two halfs of the same Battletome, like they did with Skaven. Dispossessed covered traditional holds dedicated to Grungni, with Fyreslayers and their lodges covering the worship of Grimnir. It would help both factions by giving more variety in unit options.

One of my fave factions is FEC, and my other fave faction is um... pestilens 😝 I also play tzeentch almost exclusively but even then it’s normally only varied with wizards. My troops try to stay the same 

[Gdead909]

Started painting my dwarvez

[Azamar]

Fyreslayers up for pre-order next week and we’ll be getting some previews in the meantime. 

Also looks like the doom seeker is returning! 

[madmac]

I figured there was no way they'd get rid of the Doomseeker when the range is already so small, but I was hoping for a bigger surprise than just re-releasing him. Oh well.

I imagine this time he'll be an actual brutal melee hero instead of a joke, though.

Also sounds like the Forge is a buff center instead of just re-rolling prayers or whatever, so that's interesting. More Herdstone than Blood Altar, I'm thinking.

[Clan's Cynic]

On 4/4/2019 at 1:54 PM, Forrix said:

I'm not sure what his source is but Tom on Warhammer Weekly was saying that Fyreslayers are getting a major overhaul rule wise with Vulkites possibly losing their save after the save but gaining an extra wound. Personally I'm hoping for a much more elite glass cannon style army. 

With the Namarti box being cheaper than Vulkites and the Magmadroth no longer being available standalone, I feel like GW are consciously aware that they very much 'outpriced' a great deal of the potential Fyreslayer audience. 

That being said, I could see them trying to make them more elite by just overpricing everything points wise and not doing much else. I do however hope they actually took a look at the overall army and make them less spammy, more individually strong and more (points) expensive.

Edited April 7, 2019 by Clan's Cynic

[Wraith01]

Sadly, no new units. Therefore my Fyreslayers are staying as a Skirmish Warband. (I only have a Start Collecting kit, the Chosen Axes, a Doomseaker and a kit of Hearthguard that I just ordered when I got hyped with the announcement of new stuff coming.) I don't like repeating the same models over and over, specially with so few differentiation between them.

Fyreslayers really need a few new units, specially cool new cavalry and behemoth (I'd personally like some females too).

Though I will be buying the Forge and Endless Spells, just cause they look super cool!

Might get the new book... but probably not.

Edited April 7, 2019 by Wraith01
more details.

[kenshin620]

2 hours ago, Clan's Cynic said:

With the Namarti box being cheaper than Vulkites and the Magmadroth no longer being available standalone, I feel like GW are consciously aware that they very much 'outpriced' a great deal of the potential Fyreslayer audience. 

That being said, I could see them trying to make them more elite by just overpricing everything points wise and not doing much else. I do however hope they actually took a look at the overall army and make them less spammy, more individually strong and more (points) expensive.

Also fyreslayers were made in a funny time of AoS, where perhaps, at least to GW's eyes, 2k points wasnt the "standard". Despite 1.5-2k almost always being the "standard".

[madmac]

One way or another it's going to be really interesting to see what GW do with Fyreslayers.  We've only seen a few updated tomes so far, so it's hard to establish a trend.  Blades of Khorne was a popular army that really just needed a quick facelift and got it.

FEC were quite dated with a small unit range but still pretty solid and surprisingly popular, the new rules seem to have really caused them to take off.

Fyreslayers never really caught on to start with, and their armybook is one of the oldest in AoS.  Combined with the model/expense problem I think a full re-write is the only thing that could possibly salvage them.  They need to be fun to play and easy-ish to get into, especially with no shiny new units to pull people in.

Here's hoping, I guess.

Personally I've got a medium sized collection* of Fyreslayers, which is to say what would be a full army for most other factions, but Fyreslayers, so...

*One of every type of hero, including Magmadroths, 40 vulkites, 20 hearthguard berserkers and 10 aurics. I still need to finish painting half the Hearthguard so I'm looking forward to this weeks previews in part to decide if I need/want to buy anything else.  I don't really want to get another Start Collecting box but if they do the Battleline Magmadroth thing I'll think about it.  Painting Magmadroths is surprisingly not a big time sink in any case.

 

[Azamar]

3 hours ago, madmac said:

I figured there was no way they'd get rid of the Doomseeker when the range is already so small, but I was hoping for a bigger surprise than just re-releasing him. Oh well.

I imagine this time he'll be an actual brutal melee hero instead of a joke, though.

Also sounds like the Forge is a buff center instead of just re-rolling prayers or whatever, so that's interesting. More Herdstone than Blood Altar, I'm thinking.

The problem is he’s competing for a limited number of hero slots in a crowded field- with any luck they’ll change something to distinguish him from the grimwraith berserker, and give them both a niche to fill. 

It’ll be interesting to see what the forge does- I wonder if it’s going to link with the battle trait in some way, assuming that mechanic is kept- perhaps units within range always act as if the enhanced rune effect is in play?