AoS 2 - Fyreslayers Discussion

[PJetski]

Lodge: Lofnir

Warlord Battalion

• Runesmiter on Magmadroth
  • -Mount Trait: Ash-horn Ancient (reroll save 1 for MAGMADROTHS within 6")
  • Prayer: Searing Heat (-1 to enemy hit rolls)
• Runemaster
  • General (Trait: Explosive Charge)
  • Prayer: Ember Storm (run & charge for HEARTHGUARD BERZERKERS)
  • Artefact: Arcane Tome
  • Spell: Ghost-mist
• Runesmiter
  • Prayer: Prayer of Ash (+1 to save rolls)
• 15x Auric Hearthguard 

Vanguard Battalion

• Battlesmith
  • -Artefact: Nullsidian Icon
• 10x Hearthguard Berzerkers

Battle Regiment Battalion

• Runeson on Magmadroth
  • -Mount Trait: Coal-heart Ancient (Reduce Rend of enemy melee weapons by 1)
• 5x Auric Hearthguard
• 5x Auric Hearthguard

Runeson on Magmadroth
-Mount Trait: Coal-heart Ancient (Reduce Rend of enemy melee weapons by 1)

1990/2000

The removal of Lords of the Lodge and the increased focus on MONSTERS/objective play in 3rd edition has made me want to try Lofnir again.

It sucks having to make the Runemaster the general because he is so squishy, but he's a low priority target and fairly well protected by Auric Hearthguard and Nullsidian Icon.

Invocations don't seem worth their points (especially their new point costs...) since they can be dispelled and you can't chant another prayer in that same turn.

What do you think?

Edited June 21, 2021 by PJetski

[Oldhat]

Hermdar

Linebreaker
Auric Runefather on Magmadroth
Auric Runesmiter on Magmadroth

Battle Regiment
Battlesmith
Auric Runemaster
(10) HGB w/ Axe
(10) HGB w/ Axe
(5) Auric HG
(10) HGB w/ Poles
(10) HGB w/ Poles

Runic Fyrewall
Magmic Battleforge

2k on the nose. Not that we have an expansive range, but this is pretty much what I own/have assembled. Just need to put together some AHG and another 'Droth. I am a complete AoS noob and I was gonna jump on board and I guess I picked a wild time with it going to 3.0 and having built a list for 2.0. C'est la vie! How does this look?

[peasant]

On 6/22/2021 at 7:35 AM, Oldhat said:

Hermdar

Linebreaker
Auric Runefather on Magmadroth
Auric Runesmiter on Magmadroth

Battle Regiment
Battlesmith
Auric Runemaster
(10) HGB w/ Axe
(10) HGB w/ Axe
(5) Auric HG
(10) HGB w/ Poles
(10) HGB w/ Poles

Runic Fyrewall
Magmic Battleforge

2k on the nose. Not that we have an expansive range, but this is pretty much what I own/have assembled. Just need to put together some AHG and another 'Droth. I am a complete AoS noob and I was gonna jump on board and I guess I picked a wild time with it going to 3.0 and having built a list for 2.0. C'est la vie! How does this look?

Im considering start the fyreslayers myself, even now when they are in bad shape

[PJetski]

On 6/22/2021 at 1:35 AM, Oldhat said:

Hermdar

Linebreaker
Auric Runefather on Magmadroth
Auric Runesmiter on Magmadroth

Battle Regiment
Battlesmith
Auric Runemaster
(10) HGB w/ Axe
(10) HGB w/ Axe
(5) Auric HG
(10) HGB w/ Poles
(10) HGB w/ Poles

Runic Fyrewall
Magmic Battleforge

2k on the nose. Not that we have an expansive range, but this is pretty much what I own/have assembled. Just need to put together some AHG and another 'Droth. I am a complete AoS noob and I was gonna jump on board and I guess I picked a wild time with it going to 3.0 and having built a list for 2.0. C'est la vie! How does this look?

That's not how Linebreaker battalion works, for at least two reasons 

You need minimum 3 units (1 Commander, 2-3 Monster). Magmadroths are all Leaders, which means they do not count as Monster for these battalions.

Edited June 23, 2021 by PJetski

[Oldhat]

2 minutes ago, PJetski said:

That's not how Linebreaker battalion works

Oopsie. Still getting used to the changes. Oh well, easy enough to reorganize it into two Battle Regiments or a Regiment and an Entourage. 

Also, why is the consensus that they're in bad shape? Especially before we see the GH21? I mean, I'm a total noob so I may be missing the obvious.

[Doko]

Hearthguard block nerfed a 25%(now 15 models and not 20) and loosing the horde disscount

We lost attack twice

With roar now is very easy block us from attack first

Magmadroths are veeeeery bad behemots in a edition where behemots gonna be the key

Priest have been nerfed a 100%  going from 2 prayers each priest to only 1 and doing us mortals with 1

New edittion have nerfed even more  melle armys with new coherency,overwath and redeploy 

 

There is many more nerfs,but these are i think pretty huge and gonna do us go from a 8\10 to a 4\10 if we dont get any buff

[Oldhat]

9 minutes ago, Doko said:

Hearthguard block nerfed a 25%(now 15 models and not 20) and loosing the horde disscount

We lost attack twice

With roar now is very easy block us from attack first

Magmadroths are veeeeery bad behemots in a edition where behemots gonna be the key

Priest have been nerfed a 100%  going from 2 prayers each priest to only 1 and doing us mortals with 1

New edittion have nerfed even more  melle armys with new coherency,overwath and redeploy 

 

There is many more nerfs,but these are i think pretty huge and gonna do us go from a 8\10 to a 4\10 if we dont get any buff

Fyreslayers weren't the only ones that lost stuff, though. Most stuff went up in price, all units changed how they size up and warscroll battalions went away for everyone. So I just wonder if this is a proportional debuff that won't too heavily change their standings.

Also, we haven't seen the updated warscrolls yet, right? Curious if there will be any shakeups there.

[Doko]

I dont know others armys,but my sce,soulbligth and city of sigmar armys got almost all buffs.

The reinforcement hadnt changed nothing in my lists,i didnt used battallions and all my models have 25 base so new coherency dont hurts me as vulkites with 32 and only 1" reach.

So i can say with all the changes my city gonna be sooooo much better(overwatch gonna be broken and i can see my friendly group asking me to dont use it with my 30 irondrakes buffed).

Soulbligth gonna be 100% the same or even better

Sce gonna be very similar also

 

But when i think in fyreslayers all are nerfs and nothing good for us in next editiion

[Doko]

Btw as my last game of aos2 i gave my first try to a list with 4 grimwrath zerkers hero.

I couldnt get the first turn charge with all,at turn 2 everyone was dead.

They(and a runefather on foot and a gyrobomber) could in these two turns kill:

10 sequitors

5 evocators

The aos2 hero on mount(the mage on gryf charger cant rememer the name)

Neave blactalom(who did huge damage killing almost two she alone)

They were ok but against sce who arent too much good.

Of these i used:

The 5++ who was the best

The +1 hit and wound close to ally who failled first turn charge but in one turn could kill the mage on gryffon(who had allready 3 wounds for flasks and also killed the berzerker before), second best 

The bodyguard with the battlesmith who was useless because i went out of the range so wasnt bodyguard neither got the +1 hit

The 1mw with 6 who never got one 6 so was useless.

 

As i tougth the nerf was huge and every new skill are useless,only the close to allys was good but too much easily killable.

 

[Malakithe]

4 hours ago, Doko said:

4 grimwrath zerkers hero

After their warscroll change Grimmies and Doomseekers arent worth taking for any reason. They were subpar before and the warscroll change made them useless. At this point the models are only good for kit bashes/conversions

[Forehead]

I think the negativity is mis-placed. Yes we can't run big blocks of fight first HGB but frankly that was a negative play experience that needed sorting out, lacked imagination and pigeon-holed the faction - I'm pleased it's gone.

I think paired (or even 3) Runesons on MD has mileage here, one can even become a wizard for arcane bolt impact hits on top of stomp and CA charge mortals, at the very least this is amusing to me. Not sure Auric HG are the new best thing though with hitting on 5s for Unleash hell.

Needs some play testing for sure but as I also play BoC I can assure you that Fyreslayers are not in a bad place.

[PJetski]

15 Hearthguard Berzerkers are still tough to crack but now we can easily revive models from the unit with Rally and Arcane Tome + Emerald Lifeswarm

You can't pick a unit of 20 poleaxes to fight twice any more and you can only fight first with one unit at a time, so the damage potential in the combat phase is much lower. While it is unfortunate for Fyreslayers, I think that's a good thing for the game overall.

It's a lot more interesting to make Fyreslayer lists when you don't immediately start with LOTL + Hermdar. Magmadroths and Auric Hearthguard are much better, and the other 3 lodges are much more appealing. Vostarg in particular looks really good for quickly getting your entire army on objectives. Running multiple 10 man squads of HGB that all run 6 in the first turn, get +1 to charge, and all of them can run & charge (without relying on a prayer!) sounds really good for objective play.

[Doko]

I allways played hermdar,but these lasts 4 games i tried  vorstarg and i played against ranged.

Now when i think back to hermdar is hard,i got so much fun with the 12" move in first turn and +1 charge of vorstarg.

Granted was against ranged armys and vs melles army hermdar gonna be superior but was fun

[EchoHavoc]

Okay so overall I think fyreslayers are actually in an okay spot.

I was annoyed originally that they didn’t increase our base unit size to 10. However, after seeing the points and that most armies didn’t get any increase in unit size. It’s a good thing for us.

Everyone is going to be either running msu or monsters. Well Auric are perfect to take out monsters. HGB in 10s are still decent. Plus is opens up a spot for Vulkites as well.  
 

The changes also open up other opportunities for different choices other than just Hermdar. On that note lords of the lodge was one of the most broken, horrible battalions in the game. People hated it. So glad that’s gone. 
 

I don’t think we will be top tier but I think we can do well into a lot of armies. I’m still worried we will struggle against magic heavy lists and heavy shooting armies. Also with SoB being everywhere these days we might struggle to take them off objectives but then so will everyone else. 
As a tournament player I expect to go 3-2 with Fyreslayers. I expect going 4-1 or 5-0 will be too much of a stretch as we do have some really nasty matchups now.

Also the Hunters battalion is going to be HUGE for us!! 

[PJetski]

If you're really worried about magic you can take two Battlesmiths and give each one a Nulsidian Icon to give your army two 4+ ignore effects

If you're really worried about SOB (or any MONSTER meta) you should go Lofnir and bring a bunch of Auric Hearthguard

[EchoHavoc]

25 minutes ago, PJetski said:

If you're really worried about magic you can take two Battlesmiths and give each one a Nulsidian Icon to give your army two 4+ ignore effects

If you're really worried about SOB (or any MONSTER meta) you should go Lofnir and bring a bunch of Auric Hearthguard

So my current list runs 2 battle smiths. Although I imagine that’ll be changing.  Then if I can fit them in I’ll be bringing 20 Auric to try and help deal with SOB or any monsters. 
 

Edited June 24, 2021 by EchoHavoc

[Doko]

I dont get how you guys are happy to loose battalion,loose a 50% of prayers,loose 25% of the hearthguard unit.

Rigth now we are around 7\8 place with these changes we gonna be botton tier but you are happy

As vince vinturella said yesterday in his new points review,fyrslayer have been the most hitted army of all aos with the edittion and gonna be umplayable.

As he said the biggest impact gonna be cant stack saves,bye bye our +3 save(prayer of ash,battlesmith and runesmitter on magmadroth one time per game)

So we arent even close to top tier and we habe been deleted by the new changes,every tournament player have said as we gonna be useless untill we get our next tome but some of yours are happy i dont get it.

Similar if seraphon now cant cast magic,cant shoot and they are happy because they dont need mages or skinks or salamander.

If you are happy being trash tier army  good for you,but i want a balanced army that can be played(and next edition fyreslayers wont be playable)

[EchoHavoc]

13 minutes ago, Doko said:

I dont get how you guys are happy to loose battalion,loose a 50% of prayers,loose 25% of the hearthguard unit.

Rigth now we are around 7\8 place with these changes we gonna be botton tier but you are happy

As vince vinturella said yesterday in his new points review,fyrslayer have been the most hitted army of all aos with the edittion and gonna be umplayable.

As he said the biggest impact gonna be cant stack saves,bye bye our +3 save(prayer of ash,battlesmith and runesmitter on magmadroth one time per game)

So we arent even close to top tier and we habe been deleted by the new changes,every tournament player have said as we gonna be useless untill we get our next tome but some of yours are happy i dont get it.

Similar if seraphon now cant cast magic,cant shoot and they are happy because they dont need mages or skinks or salamander.

If you are happy being trash tier army  good for you,but i want a balanced army that can be played(and next edition fyreslayers wont be playable)

To be honest I think you and I are playing very different games of age of Sigmar. I’m only interested in the competitive scene. 
Fyreslayers were no where near the most effected by the changes. Did you see what happened to Slaanesh for example? Also gitz? Beasts of chaos? 
 

The stuff you have named is everything that was wrong with the game. Stacking bonuses was an awful rule and way to play. Battalions were so unbalanced it wasn’t even funny.

like I said to begin with I don’t think you and I are interested in the same sort of games. If you wanted a balanced army you’d also want a balanced game. Fyreslayers were not in any way shape of form balanced. Rolling up the board with 40-60 HGBs fighting first, fighting twice with a 3++ or 4++ save is not balanced.

[Doko]

How we arent balanced when we arent even close to top 5?

I can tell you how 5+ armys can stomp us with our 40 herthguards,attacking first,attacking twice,with a save of 2 and 4++ 

Now these same 5 armys have got almost zero nerfs while we wont can stand even one turn against them.

 

Btw slanesh are a bunch of cryers,the playtesters have spoken how broken they were with his new rules and the best free sumon of the game,and every 3.0 game that i watched of slanesh have been won by slanesh.

 

[EchoHavoc]

1 hour ago, Doko said:

How we arent balanced when we arent even close to top 5?

I can tell you how 5+ armys can stomp us with our 40 herthguards,attacking first,attacking twice,with a save of 2 and 4++ 

Now these same 5 armys have got almost zero nerfs while we wont can stand even one turn against them.

 

Btw slanesh are a bunch of cryers,the playtesters have spoken how broken they were with his new rules and the best free sumon of the game,and every 3.0 game that i watched of slanesh have been won by slanesh.

 

Just a quick question how many games of 3 have you played with fyreslayers?

[Nadure]

I have never played a game of AoS but am thinking of starting.

 

What do people think of using the curse prayer to fish for mortals with vulkite berserkers with two axes? Seems like it might be good.

Also; if going for multiple magmadroths is a runefather worth it worth it vs an additional runeson?

I'm thinking 3 SC boxes with father on foot, 2 runeson droths and a smiter droth.

[Azamar]

38 minutes ago, Nadure said:

I have never played a game of AoS but am thinking of starting.

 

What do people think of using the curse prayer to fish for mortals with vulkite berserkers with two axes? Seems like it might be good.

Also; if going for multiple magmadroths is a runefather worth it worth it vs an additional runeson?

I'm thinking 3 SC boxes with father on foot, 2 runeson droths and a smiter droth.

I could see that curse working quite well if you can get it cast at the right time, but curse is quite short ranged and unreliable on a 4+ so I don’t know how well that would work in practice. 
 

2 Runesons are worth considering for the rerolls- I do like my runefather on droth but he is a but expensive now. That being said if you’re getting three kits you’ll have enough spare parts that you could swap them out. The rune father/son sits on the magmadroth well enough you don’t need to glue him on, so with two magmadroths I’ve built one dedicated runesmiter droth, and a second with a runeson and runefather built I can swap out depending on what I want to use 

[Doko]

1 hour ago, EchoHavoc said:

Just a quick question how many games of 3 have you played with fyreslayers?

If u mean tournaments,i played around 5 some of 3 games and others of 5.

 

[Beliman]

11 minutes ago, Doko said:

If u mean tournaments,i played around 5 some of 3 games and others of 5.

I think he is talking about 3d edition and not 3 round tournaments.

[Doko]

In real life 0, in tts around 15 games of these maybe 5 were fyreslayers.

In short ranged armys kite us(redeploy must be faqed because with a army of 4" move is imposible play to the mouse with units going away from you a d6) or delete us betwen regular shooting and overwatch(played against myself and a overwatch of 30 irondrakes with runelord,hurricanum and a +1 wound of tempest eye deleted almost 10 of my 15 buffed hearthguards) 

Melle armys were more playable,but vampires blood knigths mince us and graveguard too if we dont play hermdar for attack first. And others as ironjawz with the bigg wwag and support also delete us if we dont attack first and maw krusha can kill he alone 3 magmadroths