AoS 2 - Fyreslayers Discussion

[Gristlegut]

Howdy Folks,

First posting on the forums. Hopefully you are cool with a list advice critique. I have messed with mixing the VB x10 or HGB x5. Not sure which one is best. I would love to use the Magmadroth more but this allows me to get the 2x 20 HGB with some shooting from the AG...always looking to fine tune it. My local meta has a lot of magic and monsters. Tzeentch and Orruks. Any advice?

Thanks,

Grist

Grist'sFyreslayerlist.pdf

[TheGrayKing]

Trying to get into Fyreslayers for New Year New Army and was wondering if this was a pretty good list.

Leaders

Auric Runesmiter [120pts]: 3. Prayer of Ash, Forge Key

Auric Runesmiter on Magmadroth [250pts]: 1. Cinder-crest Youngblood, 1. Salamander Cloak, 6. Gilded Claws, Forge Key

 

Battleline

Auric Hearthguard [240pts]: 2x 5 Auric Hearthguards

Vulkite Berzerkers [280pts]: 20 Vulkite Berzerkers, Paired Fyresteel Handaxe

Vulkite Berzerkers [140pts]: 10 Vulkite Berzerkers, Fyresteel War-pick

 

Battalion: Lords of the Lodge [920pts]

Auric Runefather on Magmadroth: 0. Voxaxe, 5. Coal-heart Ancient

Auric Runemaster: General - Fiery Endurance

Battlesmith

10x Hearthguard Berzerkers, Flamestrike Poleaxe

 

Allegiance: Fyreslayers: Vostarg

 

Magmic Battleforge

Total: [1,950pts]

[flamingwalnut]

Not sure how many people watch this space, but figure I'd ask anyways.

Pondering some step into Fyreslayer territory. Was going to get the Start Collecting and convert the Vulkites into Hearthguard Berserkers.

Then I checked the Vulkite sprue and saw that their arms were a part of their body, making it damn near impossible to make for 2 handed poses... 

Anyone got any experience with this? Would just bulking up one axe be good enough for a Hearthguard? Is there another way or do I just shrug and go Vulkites?

[DrDemento]

22 hours ago, flamingwalnut said:

Not sure how many people watch this space, but figure I'd ask anyways.

Pondering some step into Fyreslayer territory. Was going to get the Start Collecting and convert the Vulkites into Hearthguard Berserkers.

Then I checked the Vulkite sprue and saw that their arms were a part of their body, making it damn near impossible to make for 2 handed poses... 

Anyone got any experience with this? Would just bulking up one axe be good enough for a Hearthguard? Is there another way or do I just shrug and go Vulkites?

I’ve given this a lot of thought as I have 30 vulkites on sprue cuz that was the thing in the 1.0 book.... but Yes, idea is to extend axe handles, and also put the throwing axes in the other hand.

There are many other subtle differences, like the mohawks, loincloths, and shin guards, but not really noticeable on the tabletop IMO, except the axe blades.

maybe ideally mix some bits from the hearhguard sprues, especially leftovers from auric builds.

I’ve also thought about putting poleaxe chains on the double axe or pick and axe vulkite builds as I built my hearthguard with the broad axes.  Plus I think that would look cool, double weapon chain whirling death!

[Forehead]

@DrDemento I'm not sure that's worth the effort but I'm not keen on modelling so somewhat biased. I would keep them as Vulkites, they have a place in the army and their once per game fight before you die rule can be powerful if you use it well.

[DrDemento]

21 hours ago, Forehead said:

@DrDemento I'm not sure that's worth the effort but I'm not keen on modelling so somewhat biased. I would keep them as Vulkites, they have a place in the army and their once per game fight before you die rule can be powerful if you use it well.

I’m not sure it’s worth it either, but I love modeling so have given it thoughts and might be fun to have some pose variation.  I’ll do 20 Vulkites eventually and definitely see there place, but the thought of 30 is daunting and I really went with fyreslayers for the magmadroths!

[flamingwalnut]

Well, I bit the bullet and set out to found my own lodge! Start Collecting has been purchased and looking at a slow but steady build. MIGHT try to convert Vulkites to Hearthguard, but honestly not too worried about it. Bit by bit the Lodge grows! Now to start fleshing out the lore and looking for an IRL Book of Grudges to record games.
 

 

[Doko]

I just bougth 20 heathguard zerkers and i just built 4, what do you do with all the extra bits of symbols and keys?

Im triying put one extra key,one extra symbol and one throwing axe in every model but the symbols are so tiny that is hard to glue them and hard find spots in the waist with the original symbol, weapn and axe

[flamingwalnut]

5 hours ago, Doko said:

I just bougth 20 heathguard zerkers and i just built 4, what do you do with all the extra bits of symbols and keys?

Im triying put one extra key,one extra symbol and one throwing axe in every model but the symbols are so tiny that is hard to glue them and hard find spots in the waist with the original symbol, weapn and axe

Extra bits and such can be fun basing materials. Collect a pile of them and make a custom objective. Pile up a bunch of trinkets around a banner, plop it onto a 40mm base, and use it to mark the objectives under your control. 

[Bishop1893]

Hi there! Did anyone heard about nerf fyreslayers by January FAQ? What do u think about it?

[Doko]

I dont think they gonna nerf fyreslayers,before last faq we were one of the top armys and we didnt get nerfed.

Now with the oberbuffs to idomeths,new lumineths umbalanceds etc fyreslayers are in a worse position than last faq times,so im pretty sure that nothing gonna be nerfed.

In fact seeing the changes to the idoneths turtle the logical is a huge buff to magmadroths,as 40 less points.

Also seeing as they allways buff the not used units i guess the useless hearthguard  shooting unit gonna get a -10 points

I hope also the vullkites be changed to 120 as is his cost with his stats

[Malakithe]

13 hours ago, Doko said:

I dont think they gonna nerf fyreslayers,before last faq we were one of the top armys and we didnt get nerfed.

Now with the oberbuffs to idomeths,new lumineths umbalanceds etc fyreslayers are in a worse position than last faq times,so im pretty sure that nothing gonna be nerfed.

In fact seeing the changes to the idoneths turtle the logical is a huge buff to magmadroths,as 40 less points.

Also seeing as they allways buff the not used units i guess the useless hearthguard  shooting unit gonna get a -10 points

I hope also the vullkites be changed to 120 as is his cost with his stats

I hope droths drop in points. As it stands they have always been and are still the worst monster units in the game. They are just heroes with extra wounds at this point.

It would be nice if there was more variety in viable lists but that wont really happen without radical changes

[GDD]

I don't play Fyreslayers, but I thought you gents should see this too.

Here's an interesting tidbit from this months White Dwarf!
The paragraphs about "the master maker" and the "Duardrazhal" from the Fyreslayers battletome are printed in it.
And there's also a Fyreslayers story where "totally not the white dwarf" aka Azkharn sings the following song:

Quote

Karaz Ankor krunked,
a khazakendrum zharr,
Bin rikkuz loz grungned,
Angrung kan binazyr,
Kharadron binskarren,
Drengizharr a galaz,
Azka duardrazhal,
KarazAnkor grungnaz.

And here's my sloppy translation attempt:

The Dwarven realm fell to disaster,
in a fiery battle.
???????????
will stay and mine Azyr.
Kharadron in the sky.
Fyreslayers with their gold.
Duardrazhal's massive construction
Making the Dwarven realm.

Just thought this was very worth having a look at if you're a Dwarf fan!

[Martijn de Bruin]

15 hours ago, GDD said:

I don't play Fyreslayers, but I thought you gents should see this too.

Here's an interesting tidbit from this months White Dwarf!
The paragraphs about "the master maker" and the "Duardrazhal" from the Fyreslayers battletome are printed in it.
And there's also a Fyreslayers story where "totally not the white dwarf" aka Azkharn sings the following song:

And here's my sloppy translation attempt:

The Dwarven realm fell to disaster,
in a fiery battle.
???????????
will stay and mine Azyr.
Kharadron in the sky.
Fyreslayers with their gold.
Duardrazhal's massive construction
Making the Dwarven realm.

Just thought this was very worth having a look at if you're a Dwarf fan!

Hidden teaser?! I sure hope they expand upon KO and FS in the near future!

[Martijn de Bruin]

I am about to start a Fyreslayers army and just ordered the following:

2 SC Fyreslayers
5 Hearthguard
1 Battlesmith
1 Runemaster
1 Gotrek Gurnisson
1 Magmic Invocations
1 Magmic Battleforge

I`m going for a list with Gotrek first, just because it's cool (or hot?)

Allegiance: Fyreslayers
- Lodge: Hermdar

Leaders
Auric Runefather on Magmadroth (270)
- General
- Command Trait: Warrior Indominate
- Artefact: Tyrant Slayer
- Magmadroth Trait: Coal-heart Ancient
Auric Runemaster (120)
- Prayer: Ember Storm
Battlesmith (140)
- Artefact: The Nulsidian Icon
Auric Runesmiter (120)
- Forge Key
- Prayer: Prayer of Ash
Gotrek Gurnisson (520)
- Allies

Battleline
20 x Hearthguard Berzerkers (400)
- Broadaxes
10 x Vulkite Berzerkers (140)
- War-Picks & Slingshields
10 x Vulkite Berzerkers (140)
- War-Picks & Slingshields

Battalions
Lords of the Lodge (150)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 520 / 400
Wounds: 118

 

It seems there's not a whole lot of recent content about Fyreslayers online, so I am looking for some advice:

1. With the models I have coming in, what would be the best allround list without Gotrek?
2. What is currently considered the best performing FS list in the current meta?

Edited January 18, 2021 by Martijn de Bruin

[DrDemento]

12 hours ago, Martijn de Bruin said:

I am about to start a Fyreslayers army and just ordered the following:

2 SC Fyreslayers
5 Hearthguard
1 Battlesmith
1 Runemaster
1 Gotrek Gurnisson
1 Magmic Invocations
1 Magmic Battleforge

I`m going for a list with Gotrek first, just because it's cool (or hot?)

Allegiance: Fyreslayers
- Lodge: Hermdar

Leaders
Auric Runefather on Magmadroth (270)
- General
- Command Trait: Warrior Indominate
- Artefact: Tyrant Slayer
- Magmadroth Trait: Coal-heart Ancient
Auric Runemaster (120)
- Prayer: Ember Storm
Battlesmith (140)
- Artefact: The Nulsidian Icon
Auric Runesmiter (120)
- Forge Key
- Prayer: Prayer of Ash
Gotrek Gurnisson (520)
- Allies

Battleline
20 x Hearthguard Berzerkers (400)
- Broadaxes
10 x Vulkite Berzerkers (140)
- War-Picks & Slingshields
10 x Vulkite Berzerkers (140)
- War-Picks & Slingshields

Battalions
Lords of the Lodge (150)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 520 / 400
Wounds: 118

 

It seems there's not a whole lot of recent content about Fyreslayers online, so I am looking for some advice:

1. With the models I have coming in, what would be the best allround list without Gotrek?
2. What is currently considered the best performing FS list in the current meta?

I’m working on a  painting up a similar list.  What I hear on podcasts is best performing in the meta would be to drop Gotrek for another 20 Hearthguard Bezerkers. 

I think Auric Hearthguard are good for protecting heroes like the battle smith and rune master.   
I really really like the magmic invocations as they give some much needed range and mobility with mortal wound output. The lava wall is okay too but the flamespitter and infernoth are great with the Smiter and master combo.

Can do all that above if drop Gotrek and a unit of vulkites.

I’m sticking with just 20 Hearthguard Bezerkers and try to squeeze in three magmadroths.

I hope the winter FAQ adjusts some points downward on the vulkites and magmadroths.

[Martijn de Bruin]

4 hours ago, DrDemento said:

I’m working on a  painting up a similar list.  What I hear on podcasts is best performing in the meta would be to drop Gotrek for another 20 Hearthguard Bezerkers. 

I think Auric Hearthguard are good for protecting heroes like the battle smith and rune master.   
I really really like the magmic invocations as they give some much needed range and mobility with mortal wound output. The lava wall is okay too but the flamespitter and infernoth are great with the Smiter and master combo.

Can do all that above if drop Gotrek and a unit of vulkites.

I’m sticking with just 20 Hearthguard Bezerkers and try to squeeze in three magmadroths.

I hope the winter FAQ adjusts some points downward on the vulkites and magmadroths.

Yeah that would be great, I love the Magmadroth models, here's hoping they become cheaper!

In regards to your suggestion, that would lead to something like this?

Allegiance: Fyreslayers
- Lodge: Hermdar

Leaders
Auric Runefather on Magmadroth (270)
- General
- Command Trait: Warrior Indominate
- Artefact: Tyrant Slayer
- Magmadroth Trait: Coal-heart Ancient
Auric Runemaster (120)
- Prayer: Ember Storm
Battlesmith (140)
- Artefact: The Nulsidian Icon
Auric Runesmiter (120)
- Forge Key
- Prayer: Prayer of Ash

Battleline
20 x Hearthguard Berzerkers (400)
- Broadaxes
20 x Hearthguard Berzerkers (400)
- Broadaxes
10 x Vulkite Berzerkers (140)
- Handaxes & Slingshields
10 x Vulkite Berzerkers (140)
- Handaxes & Slingshields

Battalions
Lords of the Lodge (150)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Molten Infernoth (50)
Zharrgron Flame-spitter (60)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 150

Need to get 3 more boxes of hearthguard for that hehe

[Beer & Pretzels Gamer]

Even for me this is a first, buying an army just to be contrarian but gosh darn it I've just been reading way too much negativity regarding the Fyreslayers lately.

From the outside looking in I just don't get where most of the negativity is coming from.  Sure, this isn't the widest range of models but neither was FEC and it has proven to be my most flexible & fun army.  And when I look at the Fyreslayer options and tome I see a lot of interesting tools to play with.  And in a different thread I already posted why I think the "they all look the same" thing is overdone.

Anyway, I am super excited to put the army I picked up on the table soon as Zoom League kicks off its next tournament.  The list is based around the units I have so I recognize it isn't the classic Double Hearthguard Berzerkers list but I think it has a lot of potential.  I'm also just fresh off of a tournament playing SCE where I lost a lot of games due to lack of mobility so while I am eager to try out Hermdar at some point I wanted to start with Vostarg.  With those caveats:

Allegiance: Fyreslayers
- Lodge: Vostarg

Leaders
Auric Runefather on Magmadroth (270)
- General
- Command Trait: Fiery Endurance
- Artefact: Vosaxe
- Magmadroth Trait: Coal-heart Ancient
Auric Runesmiter on Magmadroth (250)
- Forge Key
- Artefact: Ash-cloud Rune
- Magmadroth Trait: Ash-horn Ancient
- Prayer: Prayer of Ash
Auric Runesmiter (120)
- Forge Key
- Prayer: Searing Heat
Battlesmith (140)
Auric Runemaster (120)
- Prayer: Searing Heat

Battleline
20 x Hearthguard Berzerkers (400)
- Poleaxes
20 x Vulkite Berzerkers (280)
- War-Picks & Slingshields
10 x Vulkite Berzerkers (140)
- Handaxes & Slingshields

Units
5 x Auric Hearthguard (120)

Battalions
Lords of the Lodge (150)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 154
 

First match will be Shifting Objectives from GH20 against a Khorne list built around Bloodthirsters (one of each, inc. Skarbrand) and Fleshhounds. 

-Sorry, the last unit of 10x Vulkites should be paired Handaxes.  Didn't catch that mistake.

Edited January 27, 2021 by Beer & Pretzels Gamer

[Malakithe]

16 hours ago, Beer & Pretzels Gamer said:

I just don't get where most of the negativity is coming from. 

Its from exactly what you said. Its a small limited faction. I get it and would also like more variety in them. Ive loved Fyreslayers ever since they were released. And over the years their performance has waxed and waned. Right now, rules and gameplay wise, they are still super good. No doubt about that. They arent crazy top anymore due to shooting and heavy magic but still up there usually in the top 5 or even top 3.  But people are just tired of the same stuff over and over. There is only one viable list. Lords of the Lodge with some slight variation. And the models are almost all the same. The models themselves are great but yeah people want something more. 

[Beer & Pretzels Gamer]

3 hours ago, Malakithe said:

Its from exactly what you said. Its a small limited faction. I get it and would also like more variety in them. Ive loved Fyreslayers ever since they were released. And over the years their performance has waxed and waned. Right now, rules and gameplay wise, they are still super good. No doubt about that. They arent crazy top anymore due to shooting and heavy magic but still up there usually in the top 5 or even top 3.  But people are just tired of the same stuff over and over. There is only one viable list. Lords of the Lodge with some slight variation. And the models are almost all the same. The models themselves are great but yeah people want something more. 

So is it the fact that they are so competitive that draws the ire?  Because the rest is far from unique across AoS.  Last night we debuted Bonesplitterz in Zoom League which has even fewer WS and even less differentiating between them.  Yet I just don’t see the vitriol out there for Bonesplitterz.  We’d kicked off Zoom League with Ironjawz, another limited range, albeit with more distinction between units.  Again, I just don’t see the negativity out there for them.  Now it’s nice that these two can be combined into Big Waaagh!!! with new tome but plenty still run these pure lists without ire.

Coming from historical war games where uniformity can be a point of pride and thus Fyreslayer units look relatively distinct to me I’ll always have to chock up that issue to personal preferences.  So I can’t and won’t really argue with that.  But as far as narrow Fyreslayers have the same # of WS as my KO or my FEC and 1 more than IDK.  So wanting more units isn’t unique to them by any means (heck Khorne and SCE still want more units and they so much more than most).  Similarly at tournament level many factions gravitate toward a mono-list (pre-Morathi eels for example).  But outside of tournaments there is typically more flexibility than acknowledged.

So my confusion is less the details of it but why, given how common these traits are, Fyreslayers are singled out for so much angst and complaint?

Can’t wait to play them this week.

[Malakithe]

51 minutes ago, Beer & Pretzels Gamer said:

So is it the fact that they are so competitive that draws the ire?

Partially. When the new rules for them were released the dominated everything. Even know with things toned down and changed here and there Hearthguard Berzerkers are things of nightmarish legends. HB are still arguably one of, if not, the best melee unit in the game.  And thats part of the reason why there is a lack of variety. HB are so completely better then Vulkites that most lists will have 2x20 HB. It was nasty when their unit size used to be 30...aside from HB being nuts its still mostly hate due to 'boring', low variety, everything looks then same, blah blah. 

IJ have had their own wave of complaints as well but they are much more elite then Fyreslayers. They suffer from almost the same things though. Low warscrolls, lack of variety type stuff. Gameplay wise its almost all the same. Try to alpha and smash or your dead. But then the Big Waaagh came and changed up all kinds of stuff for them.

1 hour ago, Beer & Pretzels Gamer said:

So my confusion is less the details of it but why, given how common these traits are, Fyreslayers are singled out for so much angst and complaint?

I think its just a combination of stuff. I love the models themselves sculpt wise but it can be daunting hobby wise assembling and painting the same posed guys over and over. Rules wise they are great but slowly being pushed aside for shooting/magic/new stuff.  Also a big thing is the buy in cost for them as their boxes havent really changed and you need a ton of everything minus the Droths

I would have liked to see some points changes to shake things up a bit but oh well. 

[Doko]

I love them,but nobody can argue that we are the army with less units of all aos.

And even worse the units that we have are 90% the same model only changing weapons.

Ironjaws as you said have the same number but they are veeeeery diferent,hardboys small orcs,brutes big orcs and mounted orc. Also they can use bonespliters units so they have now many more units

We only have naked dwarf melle,same naked dwarf with diferent melle weapon,same naked dwarf with ranged weapon.

We need any cavalry or monster.

And idoneths is very wrong ir you think have the same problem that us.

They have the same units than us only with thalls,melle and ranged(as us naked melle and ranged), but then also have two diferent cavalrys, sharks,turtle......they have as 6 diferents units when we have 3 ....

Also the playstyle of fyreslayers dont help. Only one playable list that is pretty boring to play.

If they buff our ranged unit to be playable then we gonna have any diferent to try.

I have fyreslayers and city of sigmar and the 90% of my games are with cos because they have so many options that every game is new and fun where fyreslayer are allways the same and oponent hate play vs hearthguards

[Beer & Pretzels Gamer]

37 minutes ago, Doko said:

And idoneths is very wrong ir you think have the same problem that us.

The IDK connection to me was the complaint of only one viable list that people didn’t enjoy playing against which, pre-Morathi, the Eel spam lists that had a very distinct style of play.  Like @Malekith noted for IJ it is true they have more distinction across what WS they have (even if to get to fewer on Azyr IDK has to double up on kits a lot just like Fyreslayers - e.g. two Eidolon WS, two eel WS, two Namarti WS).  The good news I guess in that is GW just showed how quickly the mono-list phenomenon can flip as with Morathi tweaks it appears you’re seeing a break from eels to see those turtles & sharks on the table more (with the inevitable complaint now that the turtles are now too strong...).  So to your point re:Auric Hearthguard provides a simple possible way for Fyreslayers to break the mono tournament list funk a la IDK.

[Beer & Pretzels Gamer]

55 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

Also a big thing is the buy in cost for them as their boxes havent really changed and you need a ton of everything minus the Droths

I think the cost issue is likely inextricably linked for Fyreslayers in the perception that you can only play one list - the Hermdar 2x20 Hearthguard Berzerkers Lords of the Lodge.  After all, if you’ve invested the coin to build out those HBs the sunk costs have to feel like a compelling reason to always include them.  And if you are why wouldn’t you take Lords of the Lodge and pair it with Hermdar? 

Not sure this is completely unique to Fyreslayers (our gaming groups Nurgle player has built up a large collection of Putrid Blightkings, for example, and now it seems “crazy” not to put all of them in their lists every time they bring Nurgle to the tablegiven the investment in time and $$$) but I get it.  How much though that cost is preventing branching out some other potential builds because it reinforces the mentality that Fyreslayers have been “solved” is interesting question to me.  (Especially when TTS is lowering switching costs for so many players.)

While I don’t expect to get the flexibility I got out of FEC I don’t feel like Fyreslayers have nothing else to offer besides that specific list.  The idea, for example, of popping up Auric Hearthguard via Runesmiter and laying down an enfilade fire into my opponents key units has a lot of appeal.

[Beer & Pretzels Gamer]

Full Batrep will go up on the Zoom League Blog (hopefully) but after getting my army on the table for the first time last night wanted to give a quick shout out to the 5x Auric Hearthguard in my list for doing their duty as Bullet Sponge No Pants.  

Scenario was GH20 version of Shifting Objectives.  My opponent had a two drop Khorne list with four Bloodthirsters and a bunch of Fleshhounds.  My opponent decided to make me go first with the primary objective in the middle.  Prayer of Ash failed even with Battleforge buff and decided not to eat the ur-gold so was knew I was taking a certain degree of chance by moving lower buffed Hearthguard Berzerkers up to control the central objective (taking full advantage of Vostarg’s first round movement bonus).

The 20x HBs formed a double line in front with Battlesmith in middle behind them  far enough to be out of melee weapon range and flanked by my two Magmadroths.  At last minute I decided to move my 5x Auric Hearthguard into position behind the Battlesmith.  There wasn’t a ton of ranged attacks so I hadn’t been too worried but decided better safe than sorry.

I’d thought my opponent would take the flanking objectives, play for the double turn, and then hit me with a fully buffed Skarbrand...

Instead they went all in trying to land a hard first hit with the Tyrants of Blood Battalion’s activation advantage.  At first I was looking at it as a good test of the Hearthguard’s resiliency at their “mid-level” 4+/4++ buff but he activated RAGE first and I just hadn’t accounted for the Great Axe of Khorne’s Outrageous Carnage which was dealing 4MW to every enemy unit within 8” on an unmodified 6.  He got two 6s and guess who was w/in 8”?  Yup, my Battlesmith.  Those 8 MW more than enough to kill him, costing me the +1 Save and forcing me to choose whether to lock my HBs in place for the rest of the game to defend the icon.

Fortunately my Sworn Protectors ate 5 of the MW, costing me models but absorbing enough to keep my Battlesmith in the game.  As I think losing him round 1 would’ve changed a lot of the game dynamics this was huge.  They’d been the unit I debated over the most and if I’d had 10 more points probably would’ve dropped them for a Grimwrath Berzerker and the Runic Fyrewall but here think they showed their merit given how vital certain heroes are to this army.

So while I’m not thrilled so far with how my color scheme is playing out (still sometime to fix) for this unit happy they’re in the list for rest of tournament.