AoS 2 - Fyreslayers Discussion

[Kramer]

On 5/18/2019 at 10:16 AM, 5kaven5lave said:

For a Duardin mix-up:

Overlord allies in Fyreslayers?

Fyreslayer allies in Overlords?

Mixed Order?

Cheers!

As soon as im done painting I’m adding hearthguard bezerkers and a runesmiter to my Dispossessed and KO list. Because both armies benefit very much from a though unit that can be placed further up field. 

The thought is the bezerkers work well with the hero without needing the allegiance abilities. I’m even considering to add the firewall or flamespitter. 

The fyrewall could help box in the bezerkers after the first round preventing a flank charge. But that’s tricky as it’s the second turn. The flamespitter suffers from the same problem but does give the runesmiter something to do while he hangs back to give the bezerkers the bonus to the save. 

On the flip side I could see endrinriggers be useful for the speed. Or 20 (4x5 or 2x10 depending on drops) thunderers as support. The fall back rule is pretty great on smaller units of 10 as you can shoot and then screen. If some survive you can do it again. Or slingshot yourself forward past the enemy if need be. 

[5kaven5lave]

Legend, cheers ears. 

Did they mix up the lore at all in the new tome or is it still ‘anything for Ur-Gold’?

[DieterLaser]

Hey guys,

quick Question:

I have an friend with a Kharadron Overlords-Army;  he found a artefact (Gimlet Lens i think it is) which is ignoring modifiers to the enemies save roll ("Enemy units can never benefit from modifiers to their save or save rolls (like being in cover) from this Heroes attacks.")

Does this affect the FnP-Roll from HGBs with a hero nearby?

My friend is arguementing i only get a 6+ FnP because it is also a "save-roll".

I am really unsure, but would say i get the 4+ FnP because it's not a save-roll per definition but rather a ability which is triggered when a wound is allocated.

Maybe somebody can clarify (if possible with rulestext, FAQ or commentary.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Azamar]

28 minutes ago, DieterLaser said:

Hey guys,

quick Question:

I have an friend with a Kharadron Overlords-Army;  he found a artefact (Gimlet Lens i think it is) which is ignoring modifiers to the enemies save roll ("Enemy units can never benefit from modifiers to their save or save rolls (like being in cover) from this Heroes attacks.")

Does this affect the FnP-Roll from HGBs with a hero nearby?

My friend is arguementing i only get a 6+ FnP because it is also a "save-roll".

I am really unsure, but would say i get the 4+ FnP because it's not a save-roll per definition but rather a ability which is triggered when a wound is allocated.

Maybe somebody can clarify (if possible with rulestext, FAQ or commentary.

Thanks in advance.

 

You are right- it is not a save so the gimlet lens would not affect it. 

No specific faq, but put it like this, if the gimlet lens removed the bonus, then things like the battlesmith would also boost it. Which is definitely not the case.

[AaronWilson]

Hi guys, as a second force and something very different to Sylvaneth I'm going to be starting Fyreslayers! For something to get my creative juices flowing I've grabbed my self a box hearthguard, which I'll be using as Berserkers. For those who know a bit more about the internal synergies of the army etc what's the common knowlegde on weapon loadout? The mortal wound potential from the Poleaxes seems appealing but random, while the broadaxes seem reliable but can bump into high armor and get stuck.

[Kramer]

11 hours ago, DieterLaser said:

Hey guys,

quick Question:

I have an friend with a Kharadron Overlords-Army;  he found a artefact (Gimlet Lens i think it is) which is ignoring modifiers to the enemies save roll ("Enemy units can never benefit from modifiers to their save or save rolls (like being in cover) from this Heroes attacks.")

Does this affect the FnP-Roll from HGBs with a hero nearby?

My friend is arguementing i only get a 6+ FnP because it is also a "save-roll".

I am really unsure, but would say i get the 4+ FnP because it's not a save-roll per definition but rather a ability which is triggered when a wound is allocated.

Maybe somebody can clarify (if possible with rulestext, FAQ or commentary.

Thanks in advance.

 

As @Azamar says you are in the right. 

The rules are very specific in this regard. The lens only affects save rolls:

But the hearthguard ability is never specified as a save (roll). Just like the deathless minions ability for example. Where ‘Save’ is in regard to abilities that affect the actual statistic on the warscroll and ‘save roll’ on modifiers that affect the dice roll itself. 

so it doesn’t affect anything not categorised as a save. I do agree it doesn’t help they have not category for all the not saves in the game. It would really make it easier if the categorised it as ward save or any other new fancy name.

[the_nApi]

20 hours ago, Mutton said:

Doesn't mention it in the new tome's Commentary or FAQ, so I can't take it on fact. Unfortunately this is something that could have used clarification when the book came out.

Designer's commentary defines the principles, if in the meantime the rules change, the principles remain valid, there is no need to repeat them with each update of rules. So in my opinion the principle holds that the ability affects neighboring units at the time the ability is used. Obviously it is an interpretation and everyone can give their own.

[Kimbo]

With the book being out for a short while now...what have you (anyone with some experience) found working at 1k? Any lists that would be a good starting point would be greatly appriciated 😊 I do not have a "playstyle" or anything like that. Just some tip of what works...

 

Thanks in advance! 

[angrycontra]

I don't think there's really any room for battlesmith interpretation. The original ability stated: "until your next hero phase, those units can't retreat but can reroll failed saves" and this happens immediately after raising the banner, therefore these units are not required to be within 8" at all times, only when they receive the buff. 

The new battlesmith however has a very different wording. It states "add 1 to save rolls on units TARGETED by enemy attacks that are WHOLLY WITHIN 12" of this model". This wording clearly implies that when your unit receives attacks, that is when you need to be wholly within bsmith range.

[DieterLaser]

On 5/21/2019 at 7:29 AM, Kramer said:

As @Azamar says you are in the right. 

The rules are very specific in this regard. The lens only affects save rolls:

But the hearthguard ability is never specified as a save (roll). Just like the deathless minions ability for example. Where ‘Save’ is in regard to abilities that affect the actual statistic on the warscroll and ‘save roll’ on modifiers that affect the dice roll itself. 

so it doesn’t affect anything not categorised as a save. I do agree it doesn’t help they have not category for all the not saves in the game. It would really make it easier if the categorised it as ward save or any other new fancy name.

Thanks, it helps a lot and convinces my friend as well.

But we agree GW could clarify, categorize it more clearly.

[Kramer]

1 minute ago, DieterLaser said:

Thanks, it helps a lot and convinces my friend as well.

But we agree GW could clarify, categorize it more clearly.

Yeah agreed, weirdly one of the stormcast podcasts with the lead game designer talked how they have a document now for key words and phrasing they consult during creation. 

[Bimli]

On 5/14/2019 at 11:53 AM, GlanceOnASix said:

I've been sold hard by lots of Grimwrath Berserkers, a buddy of mines running:
Priest Leader
Banner
Banner

3x5 of the shooting dwarfs
11-12 Grimwraths

Using Lofneir so they all run 6's turn 1, and run and charge near the general, and have a 3+save and 5++ in combat.  They fight twice, are aggressive and punch way above their weight class.  Its super cool and oddly hard to fight again.  But its also super fun.  I think it really captures the spirit of the old 'daemon/giant slayer' heros.

I think you mean vorstag not lofnrir. Grayfryed would be great to explore also getting 3+ items is dope but you can make a bunch of your heroes attack at the sameish time. 

[GlanceOnASix]

13 hours ago, Bimli said:

I think you mean vorstag not lofnrir. Grayfryed would be great to explore also getting 3+ items is dope but you can make a bunch of your heroes attack at the sameish time. 

Absolutely, I get the lodge names all mixed up.  The turn 1 movement means you dont necessarily have to pop your movement rune top of 1 to get places, and the run + charge aura is massive.  I liked the idea of all the heros piling in together, but it dosent seem worth sacrificing being midfield top of 1.

[TheNotebookGM]

People get down on Greyfyrd but I was really wanting for some of them sweet unbinds yesterday. Is it worth taking it just to get access to AshCloud Rune and Nulsidian?

[CentralKarma]

2 hours ago, TheNotebookGM said:

People get down on Greyfyrd but I was really wanting for some of them sweet unbinds yesterday. Is it worth taking it just to get access to AshCloud Rune and Nulsidian?

So far Greyfyrd has been my favourite lodge.  Running it with a battalion gives you 4 artifacts, and having your foot heroes attack at the same time is great.  Charge in a few Grimwraiths, and activate them at the same time.  Not a lot can withstand that.

[TheNotebookGM]

5 minutes ago, CentralKarma said:

So far Greyfyrd has been my favourite lodge.  Running it with a battalion gives you 4 artifacts, and having your foot heroes attack at the same time is great.  Charge in a few Grimwraiths, and activate them at the same time.  Not a lot can withstand that.

This is my thought, although I've been using Greyfyrd as a way to avoid paying for a battalion when list building, none of which excite me. 

[CentralKarma]

@TheNotebookGM  Fair enough.  I really like Lords of the Lodge.  I'm currently running 20 Hearthguard Berzerkers, which will become 30 once they aren't back ordered, and they delete anything they touch when they attack and pile in twice a combat phase

[Marvus]

On 5/22/2019 at 8:02 PM, angrycontra said:

I don't think there's really any room for battlesmith interpretation. The original ability stated: "until your next hero phase, those units can't retreat but can reroll failed saves" and this happens immediately after raising the banner, therefore these units are not required to be within 8" at all times, only when they receive the buff. 

The new battlesmith however has a very different wording. It states "add 1 to save rolls on units TARGETED by enemy attacks that are WHOLLY WITHIN 12" of this model". This wording clearly implies that when your unit receives attacks, that is when you need to be wholly within bsmith range.

Good point. I hadn’t read it that way before. That makes it a lot clearer. 

[TheNotebookGM]

7 minutes ago, CentralKarma said:

@TheNotebookGM  Fair enough.  I really like Lords of the Lodge.  I'm currently running 20 Hearthguard Berzerkers, which will become 30 once they aren't back ordered.

It is super powerful, just not my bag personally. I neither want to spend that much money or that many points on one unit. I prefer a more generalist list usually. I'm also not a super competitive person though. My goal is 3 wins, really. Too much stress at the top. Too much pressure to chase the metadragon. 

[Kairos Tejedestinos]

On 5/22/2019 at 3:03 PM, DieterLaser said:

Thanks, it helps a lot and convinces my friend as well.

But we agree GW could clarify, categorize it more clearly.

It won't change. 

A save roll is a roll where you use your save attribute. 

Duty.... is a roll you do to negate wounds, but it's not a save roll since it doesn't use your save attribute.

[Bimli]

Hello ladies and gents i am taking the below list to a tourney this coming sunday. please help me with the following. 

1 does this list look competitive?

2 if no to number 1 how can i make it better

fyreslayers 2000 pts

fyreslayer allegiance ability Hermdar

battalion Lord of the lodge

Incantation

flame wall

flame spitter

heroes

rune father (leader) (tyrant slayer)

Runesmiter battle smith (nulsidian icon)

runemaster runeson on droth (javelin) (ashhorn ancient)

 runeson on droth (javelin) (cole-heart ancient)

battleline

10 vulkite berzerkers war-pick and shield, hornblower

10 vulkite berzerkers war-pick and shield, hornblower

20 Hearth Gaurd Berzerkers flame poleaxe

 

Edited May 24, 2019 by Bimli

[LordDrakonus]

Can you take the MAGMADROTH version of say a Runefather for warscroll battalions?

Edited May 25, 2019 by LordDrakonus

[Bimli]

14 hours ago, LordDrakonus said:

Can you take the MAGMADROTH version of say a Runefather for warscroll battalions?

yes you can he has the keyword runfather

[TheNotebookGM]

17 hours ago, Bimli said:

Hello ladies and gents i am taking the below list to a tourney this coming sunday. please help me with the following. 

1 does this list look competitive?

2 if no to number 1 how can i make it better

fyreslayers 2000 pts

fyreslayer allegiance ability Hermdar

battalion Lord of the lodge

Incantation

flame wall

flame spitter

heroes

rune father (leader) (tyrant slayer)

Runesmiter battle smith (nulsidian icon)

runemaster runeson on droth (javelin) (ashhorn ancient)

 runeson on droth (javelin) (cole-heart ancient)

battleline

10 vulkite berzerkers war-pick and shield, hornblower

10 vulkite berzerkers war-pick and shield, hornblower

20 Hearth Gaurd Berzerkers flame poleaxe

 

List looks good but only one of your Mags can have a trait unless you run Lofnir.

[Azamar]

Just now, TheNotebookGM said:

List looks good but only one of your Mags can have a trait unless you run Lofnir.

He gets an extra trait for the battalion as well