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I think Fyreslayers have the potential to be a tier 1 tournament crusher army.

Two lodges stand out to me: Lofnir and Hermdar.

Lofnir is all about the Auric Hearthguard. With +1 hit and +1 wound Aurics are maybe the most cost effective shooting in the entire game, getting even more efficient when you give them reroll hit1 and reroll wounds. They get even crazier when you consider they can be battleline and easily fill up a battalion that gives a unit +1 save.

My first list will be built from this core:

120 Runemaster - General, Prayer: Prayer of Ash
240 M-Runeson - Smoldering Helm, Mount: Coal-heart Ancient
260 M-Runesmiter - Lofnir artefact, Prayer: Molten Infusion, Mount: Ash-horn Ancient
120 Runesmiter - Prayer: Searing Heat
140 Battlesmith
360 15x Auric
120 5x Auric
120 5x Auric
160 Forge Brethren
40 Fyrewall

1680/2000

The plan is to use the bulkiness of the Magmadroths to block melee (with +2-4 to save rolls the Smoldering Helm will do a lot of reflected damage) the fyrewall to shut down shooting/magic and block some choke points, and the option of having the Runesmiter tunnel in the 15 Auric squad to assassinate key units (especially MONSTERs).

From here I can add another Magmadroth, "upgrade" the Runeson to a Runefather, add some Hearthguard Berzerkers for a melee cleanup squad & mortal wound soak, add a Knight-Incantor for unbinding and the Geminids, or some Vulkitez for bodies.

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Have literally never seen prochuvi post anything that wasnt extremely negative, so can't say his opinion surprises me. 

Magmadroth finished!!! For Grimnir!  

WIP of my Magmadroth! I'm currently done with the 'skin'. Now  I just need to do the head and all the horns/claws (they will get a bone-colour) and Ur-Gold runes. I'm going for more classic lizzard/dr

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I’ve noticed that most of the lists people are thinking of have a lack of Vulkite berserkers- any thoughts on why this is? 

It looks to me there really should be room for them in any list still. sure, hearthguard have gone from a noticeably weak choice to a great one, but Vulkites can operate away from heroes without suffering too much, and are a good deal cheaper per model. As far as board control goes, they’re surely a valid choice still? 

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The dice are actually really nice. The symbols are uniquely Dwarf/Fyreslayer but it's easy to identify the number at a glance. GW continue their perverse fetish for putting symbols on 1, but at least stuck a nice, handsome, gold(ish) image on the 6 this time.

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4 hours ago, PJetski said:

I think Fyreslayers have the potential to be a tier 1 tournament crusher army.

Two lodges stand out to me: Lofnir and Hermdar.

Lofnir is all about the Auric Hearthguard. With +1 hit and +1 wound Aurics are maybe the most cost effective shooting in the entire game, getting even more efficient when you give them reroll hit1 and reroll wounds. They get even crazier when you consider they can be battleline and easily fill up a battalion that gives a unit +1 save.

My first list will be built from this core:

120 Runemaster - General, Prayer: Prayer of Ash
240 M-Runeson - Smoldering Helm, Mount: Coal-heart Ancient
260 M-Runesmiter - Lofnir artefact, Prayer: Molten Infusion, Mount: Ash-horn Ancient
120 Runesmiter - Prayer: Searing Heat
140 Battlesmith
360 15x Auric
120 5x Auric
120 5x Auric
160 Forge Brethren
40 Fyrewall

1680/2000

The plan is to use the bulkiness of the Magmadroths to block melee (with +2-4 to save rolls the Smoldering Helm will do a lot of reflected damage) the fyrewall to shut down shooting/magic and block some choke points, and the option of having the Runesmiter tunnel in the 15 Auric squad to assassinate key units (especially MONSTERs).

From here I can add another Magmadroth, "upgrade" the Runeson to a Runefather, add some Hearthguard Berzerkers for a melee cleanup squad & mortal wound soak, add a Knight-Incantor for unbinding and the Geminids, or some Vulkitez for bodies.

I love this idea, and would love to hear your analysis on performance if you get to try it out :)

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3 hours ago, Azamar said:

I’ve noticed that most of the lists people are thinking of have a lack of Vulkite berserkers- any thoughts on why this is? 

It looks to me there really should be room for them in any list still. sure, hearthguard have gone from a noticeably weak choice to a great one, but Vulkites can operate away from heroes without suffering too much, and are a good deal cheaper per model. As far as board control goes, they’re surely a valid choice still? 

Vulkites are really bad now, only 20 attacks at 3-3 with 0 rend for 160 points is a joke when every similar unit cost 120-140 and have the same 20 attack with 3-3 but 1 rend.

Also the save of 5 is very poor.

 

In general vulkites have been nerfed without reason,with a cost of 120 they would have any use but 160 is too much and hearthguard zerkers are better in all,for 40 less points have the same tankiness(double wound is the same than 4++),and for damage also the hearthguard have more danage for less points.

So nobody gonna bring vulkites when for 40 less points the hearthguard are better in every aspect

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17 minutes ago, prochuvi said:

Vulkites are really bad now, only 20 attacks at 3-3 with 0 rend for 160 points is a joke when every similar unit cost 120-140 and have the same 20 attack with 3-3 but 1 rend.

Also the save of 5 is very poor.

 

In general vulkites have been nerfed without reason,with a cost of 120 they would have any use but 160 is too much and hearthguard zerkers are better in all,for 40 less points have the same tankiness(double wound is the same than 4++),and for damage also the hearthguard have more danage for less points.

So nobody gonna bring vulkites when for 40 less points the hearthguard are better in every aspect

But one unit of 10 vulkites is 20 wounds, plus a 4+ save with shields (or mw's on the charge). They aren't amazing for dealing damage, but they're now meant to be giant meat walls, standing on objectives and weathering the storm. Even with just a battlesmith you get them to 3+ saves, plus whatever other armor buffs you can conjure. Even with the 4+ ward saves for hearthguard, their models won't last as long. I think Vulkites are still needed for capturing objectives. 

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1 hour ago, prochuvi said:

Vulkites are really bad now, only 20 attacks at 3-3 with 0 rend for 160 points is a joke when every similar unit cost 120-140 and have the same 20 attack with 3-3 but 1 rend.

Also the save of 5 is very poor.

 

In general vulkites have been nerfed without reason,with a cost of 120 they would have any use but 160 is too much and hearthguard zerkers are better in all,for 40 less points have the same tankiness(double wound is the same than 4++),and for damage also the hearthguard have more danage for less points.

So nobody gonna bring vulkites when for 40 less points the hearthguard are better in every aspect

I really need to know in which world you live because 140 pts units with that type of damage are not common at all and the one who have this damage output don't have a third of vulkites resilience

Did you really expected 120 pts for a 20 wounds save 4+ ( with shields) units ?

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Vulkites are also not as reliant on hero support, so you can send them off on their own, and they earn some of their value back even when they get slaughtered thanks to Berserk Fury. 

Vulkites are still very solid and I predict as people come to grips with the new battletome we'll see a lot more 2x Vulkites for objectives and battleline slots than we will all Hearthguard armies.  There's not much much benefit to having more than 2 units of Hearthguard Berserkers and even that is extremely expensive.

 

 

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Berzerker Fury makes Vulkites worthwhile. Having a battleline unit with respectable damage output (especially when buffed by the +1 rend rune) that can fight even if it gets wiped out by a big monster is a big deal. On the offensive they can fight first, then die and fight again. 

They are also 10 models for 160 points, which is the best model:point ratio that an elite army like Fyreslayers can get. They're not spectacular like the Hearthguard but they do fill a niche.

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1 hour ago, ledha said:

I really need to know in which world you live because 140 pts units with that type of damage are not common at all and the one who have this damage output don't have a third of vulkites resilience

Did you really expected 120 pts for a 20 wounds save 4+ ( with shields) units ?

White lions 120points 20 attacks 3-3 1 rend, save4 and reroll saves 1 in shooting

Swordmasters 140 points 20 attacks 3-3 1 rend save 4 rerroling all in shooting

Grimhast reapers 140 points 20 attacks 4-3 1 rend invulnerable save of 4 

Namarti tralls 140 points 20 attacks 3-3 1 rend (50-100% more damage vs 1 or 5 wounds) same save of 5

And the best example of one unit 100% better than vulkites: the phoenyx guard,140 points for 10 wound with save 4 and 4++ 20 attacks 3-3 0 rend.so same attacks,1 better save,4++ that is the same than double wound and cost 20 less also have 25 base and 2" rangue

 

Oh also  maybe the worst army of aos2, the dispossesed have for 160 points 20 warriors that are 20 wounds with save of 5(rerrolling all at melle that is the same that a save of4 at melle of vulkites) also have 20 attacks 4-3 1 rend that is the same that vulkites with shield. So same points for same stats,vulkites have the attack even if dead and warriors the reroll wounds in oponent turn. I prefer vulkites but is a example of how bad are vulkites when they have almost 100% the same stats that a unit of one of the worst armys of this edition

 

I know that i was very salty at first and now after thinking more Many things in the new tome have been buffed and are great,but vulkites have been nerfed and havent any use now.

After some thinking maybe they are usefull vs flesh eaters,so they can figth back when the dragon allways attack first and attack twice kill them 

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2 hours ago, prochuvi said:

White lions 120points 20 attacks 3-3 1 rend, save4 and reroll saves 1 in shooting

Swordmasters 140 points 20 attacks 3-3 1 rend save 4 rerroling all in shooting

Grimhast reapers 140 points 20 attacks 4-3 1 rend invulnerable save of 4 

Namarti tralls 140 points 20 attacks 3-3 1 rend (50-100% more damage vs 1 or 5 wounds) same save of 5

And the best example of one unit 100% better than vulkites: the phoenyx guard,140 points for 10 wound with save 4 and 4++ 20 attacks 3-3 0 rend.so same attacks,1 better save,4++ that is the same than double wound and cost 20 less also have 25 base and 2" rangue

 

Oh also  maybe the worst army of aos2, the dispossesed have for 160 points 20 warriors that are 20 wounds with save of 5(rerrolling all at melle that is the same that a save of4 at melle of vulkites) also have 20 attacks 4-3 1 rend that is the same that vulkites with shield. So same points for same stats,vulkites have the attack even if dead and warriors the reroll wounds in oponent turn. I prefer vulkites but is a example of how bad are vulkites when they have almost 100% the same stats that a unit of one of the worst armys of this edition

 

I know that i was very salty at first and now after thinking more Many things in the new tome have been buffed and are great,but vulkites have been nerfed and havent any use now.

After some thinking maybe they are usefull vs flesh eaters,so they can figth back when the dragon allways attack first and attack twice kill them 

First of all, all your examples have 1 wound (with phoenix guard being technically exception). Vulkites have literally double their survivability. Secondly, fyreslayers get easy access to save stacking so that can make vulkites even more durable. Thirdly, phoenix guard are pretty strong yes, but that is also the reason why phoenix temple based order lists have done well in tournaments. They're too good for their points. And even there... Even there the difference is only 20p and vulkites have ability to pile in after death (not to mention allegiance advantages) which should count for something. Also vulkites get full rerolls with axes. As for the dispossessed example, well getting 20 guys in melee is lot harder than getting 10 in melee (despite smaller bases) and once again, allegiance advantages for fyreslayers are the reason why they're better army than dispossessed (for now).

But seriously, do you really have nothing else to contribute to this thread (or any other thread for that matter) than constant whining and crying? Every time I see overly negative comment in this forum, I don't even need to look at the name to know it's you. It's just a game. If vulkites are bit meh, they get point cuts in the future. Same with everything else. Besides, at this point it's too early to tell and each army has it's own strenghts and weaknesses, you can't always tell straight away whether unit x is better than y.

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5 hours ago, prochuvi said:

White lions 120points 20 attacks 3-3 1 rend, save4 and reroll saves 1 in shooting

Swordmasters 140 points 20 attacks 3-3 1 rend save 4 rerroling all in shooting

Grimhast reapers 140 points 20 attacks 4-3 1 rend invulnerable save of 4 

Namarti tralls 140 points 20 attacks 3-3 1 rend (50-100% more damage vs 1 or 5 wounds) same save of 5

And the best example of one unit 100% better than vulkites: the phoenyx guard,140 points for 10 wound with save 4 and 4++ 20 attacks 3-3 0 rend.so same attacks,1 better save,4++ that is the same than double wound and cost 20 less also have 25 base and 2" rangue

 

Oh also  maybe the worst army of aos2, the dispossesed have for 160 points 20 warriors that are 20 wounds with save of 5(rerrolling all at melle that is the same that a save of4 at melle of vulkites) also have 20 attacks 4-3 1 rend that is the same that vulkites with shield. So same points for same stats,vulkites have the attack even if dead and warriors the reroll wounds in oponent turn. I prefer vulkites but is a example of how bad are vulkites when they have almost 100% the same stats that a unit of one of the worst armys of this edition

 

I know that i was very salty at first and now after thinking more Many things in the new tome have been buffed and are great,but vulkites have been nerfed and havent any use now.

After some thinking maybe they are usefull vs flesh eaters,so they can figth back when the dragon allways attack first and attack twice kill them 

You're looking at this the wrong way, the thralls and reapers can be resurrected via synergy with other parts of their respective armies, but you're not willing to give Vulkites the same synergy argument, every army needs some form of blocker/chaff/speedbumb.

I actually think Vulkites are decent considering the low investment required to get them to deal a bit of damage AND the fact they get to fight back if wiped out.

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7 hours ago, prochuvi said:

White lions 120points 20 attacks 3-3 1 rend, save4 and reroll saves 1 in shooting

Swordmasters 140 points 20 attacks 3-3 1 rend save 4 rerroling all in shooting

Grimhast reapers 140 points 20 attacks 4-3 1 rend invulnerable save of 4 

Namarti tralls 140 points 20 attacks 3-3 1 rend (50-100% more damage vs 1 or 5 wounds) same save of 5

 

All those units have a slightly better damage output than the vulkites, but vulkites have TWICE their wounds and a equivalent or better save. Only exception are the grimghasts, who are one of the BEST unit of the game right now and still have only 10 wounds so die very easily if you fail those preious 4+ unrendable saves (and they suxx against no hordes).

And vulkites have access to MANY more buffs than everyone else in their list. +1 in rend, explosive attacks, reroll hits, reroll wounds, bonus save, double pile-in, bonus to hit, run and charge... most of their buffs are globals and free (runes, command trait that always works) so you don't even need to "invest" more points in the vulkites.

absolutely NONE of the units here come close to the efficiency of the vulkites, except maybe the grimghast.

Compare the vulkites to their equivalents like the bloodwarriors, ardboys or liberators, who cost the same or up to 40 pts more.

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I think others have already covered why those other units with one wound don’t really compare points wise to a unit with 2. 

 

Whilst it’s not always a great idea to compare point costs across factions, the closest equivalent units all cost a similar amount to vulkites- ardboyz are the same at 160 for 10, and tzaangors and chaos warriors sit at 180. Blood warriors make vulkites look cheap at 200 points for 10. The only 2 wound infantry I can find that are cheaper are bonesplitterz infantry. 

So I don’t think they’re overpriced  by those standards. On paper I think the only thing I’d change would be to take the hoard discount off the hearthguard and add one to vulkite berserkers. But I’ve got my first game with them in a few days, so I’ll take a vulkite heavy list and see how they perform, and get back to you on that. 

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7 hours ago, prochuvi said:

White lions 120points 20 attacks 3-3 1 rend, save4 and reroll saves 1 in shooting

Swordmasters 140 points 20 attacks 3-3 1 rend save 4 rerroling all in shooting

Grimhast reapers 140 points 20 attacks 4-3 1 rend invulnerable save of 4 

Namarti tralls 140 points 20 attacks 3-3 1 rend (50-100% more damage vs 1 or 5 wounds) same save of 5

And the best example of one unit 100% better than vulkites: the phoenyx guard,140 points for 10 wound with save 4 and 4++ 20 attacks 3-3 0 rend.so same attacks,1 better save,4++ that is the same than double wound and cost 20 less also have 25 base and 2" rangue

 

Oh also  maybe the worst army of aos2, the dispossesed have for 160 points 20 warriors that are 20 wounds with save of 5(rerrolling all at melle that is the same that a save of4 at melle of vulkites) also have 20 attacks 4-3 1 rend that is the same that vulkites with shield. So same points for same stats,vulkites have the attack even if dead and warriors the reroll wounds in oponent turn. I prefer vulkites but is a example of how bad are vulkites when they have almost 100% the same stats that a unit of one of the worst armys of this edition

 

I know that i was very salty at first and now after thinking more Many things in the new tome have been buffed and are great,but vulkites have been nerfed and havent any use now.

After some thinking maybe they are usefull vs flesh eaters,so they can figth back when the dragon allways attack first and attack twice kill them 

Vulkites are very very good. Not stupidly good as HB or bestigors but not being top not directly transforms you in bad.

I come from nurgle and I think vulkites are superior to blightkings: same speed, wounds. Almost same damage output and point cost but they hace access to reliable buffs, they dont become trash if hit by a -1 to hit debuff, cheap access to rend or MW etc.

And blightkings are The better unit for nurgle and anybody would dare to say they are bad.

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3 minutes ago, Jetengine said:

Question.

Are Fyreslayers an elite army now ? Or are they still a (irl cash) overpriced Horde army ?

I think they are very los mini count if hoy want, spam 5 Runefathers on magmadroths 1 runemaster and 4x5 hearthguard berserkers.

26 miniatures

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1 hour ago, Jetengine said:

Question.

Are Fyreslayers an elite army now ? Or are they still a (irl cash) overpriced Horde army ?

not horde but, if you don't take too many magmadroths or heroes, not elite as well. They are still more numerous than stormcast/khorne i'd say

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since 2017 until late last year, Fyreslayers were my main army in aos. sadly i was getting a bit bored of them, within my group i basically auto won in Duality of Death and lost everything else. i dont think the army was bad, it was definately down to how i was playing them. however i did get bored of them and moved on.

after playing 2 games with the new book vs Stormcast and Beasts of Chaos, heres a bit of what i think

-Throwing Axes: disappointed they were nerfed to 5+
-Runes: small complaints. movement one nerfed to 2" and the throwing axes one was nerfed to bring the axes back up to 4+ why?
-lack of magic defense really hurts a lot more now than it used to pre endless spells. at least our one artefact for it is no longer once per game
-Magmadroths: cool that you can take 5 with Lofnir. the abilities being tidied up is good, the extra wounds, attacks and most of the mount traits are great, still die to a stiff breeze as always
-Hearthguard Berzerkers: they always felt overcosted b efore but now i think theyre great. theyve survived better than vulkites
-Vulkite Berzerkers: extra wound is great, normal axe attacks are better, no damage save hurts a lot (see below about points costs), Berzerker Fury is a bad rule, ours is once per game yet khorne get it all the time on a unit thats much better
-Infernoth: my favourite model of the prayers and i think it hs great rules. my only issue is you need a lot of priests to really take advantage of this and the other prayers
-Grimwrath Berzerker: greatly improved, my favourite foot hero. i look forward to game 3 where i plan to try a list using 10 or more of them (since they dont have the LEADER tag, you can take as many as you want but they cant be your general)
-Points: so heres the real dowside to the new rules (apart from not getting any new units). it feels like the points are based on what the units used to do and not what they do now. Vulkites cost too much at 160 without the damage save, Hearthguard Berzerkers could maybe go up by 20. magmadroth points are around the wrong way Runesmiter should be the cheaper one. battlesmith isnt worth 140 for what he does now (+1 save instead of reroll saves)

ive got a coule of list ideas i still have to try out before i fully form my oppinion, but so far im not enjoying playing them as much as i once did and i feel like i might end up going back to my Flesh-Eaters :/

Edited by Joseph Mackay
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2 hours ago, Jetengine said:

Question.

Are Fyreslayers an elite army now ? Or are they still a (irl cash) overpriced Horde army ?

I would call them a semi-elite army now.

The thing that holds them back from being a fully elite army like Stormcast is that they're still infantry based, unless you go all in on Magmadroth.

That said, with the overall point increases and changes to make more units and heroes viable, I'd say the average unit count went down by about half.  You're looking at fielding about 40-60 guys instead of 100+, and the unit diversity is higher, so you get that unit count from a mix of guys and not painting 90 Vulkites.

 

 

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