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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Free Peoples Discussion

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Just now, Cerlin said:

Sadly the whole list is that way. I do not think anything is on rounds.

Either a lot of rebasing or squares. I kept squares myself.

The Hammerhal boxset does come with round bases, but I think that's it.

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I sent an email to GW FAQ team about moving/pile in and how it works with hold the line.

I think wizards went up because of the Endless spells and the shift to magic/summoning. They probably just did a Game Wide boost to magic, so they figured to balance it they would increase points. But  yeah it sucks.

As far as Battlemage wizards, Realms of battle, which do you thing FP excel at or prefer?

I personally thing Jade/Life, Amber/Beast, and Shadow.

Jade-Lifesurge is good for the healing and 6+ extra save. Put this on Guard with shields, 4+ reroll 1s, 6++

Amber/Beast-Wildform would be great on a horde of Guard, 30x greatswords. Sadly not on ranged weapons. 

Shadows- Mystifying Miasma would be great also on an anvil unit. The -1 to hit would make your guard even more sturdy. 

Fire- A better Arcane Bolt. Could be useful if you could spam these, and wizards were cheaper, good for sniping monsters and characters with high armor saves.

Heavens-Chain Lightning, good if your fighting clumped up units, especially if you target a character or buff model that your opponent has daisy chained all his other units to, effectively could hit the entire army. Only issue is you have to roll a 6 to get the chain effect.

Metal- Final Transmutation used to be awesome in glory days of 8th, but only 1 model (instead of every model in unit or D6 models makes this eh) Better off with arcane bolt. Could be good IF you managed to Transmute a Character or monster with 5 wounds and got a 6, but its a big risk. 

Light-no battleshock test, eh...we already have plenty of buffs, rerolls, immune to battleshock on 1,2 not really useful. 

Death- Soul Steal, eh, you could roll low and not do any damage at all. With your bravery at 6+6 roll, you have to hope for opponent to roll low, likely not going to be taking out any characters either. Much like Metal Final Trans, very gambly.

As far as list go, I was looking at something like this. Battalions have too much of a tax on sub optimal units it seems, such a shame. I wish they would let each character have an artifact, but i digress.

General, Indomitable, Stately Warbanner, Sigmarite and Shield 100
   
Battlewizard- Amber - ally 120
Battlewizard- Jade/Shadow - ally 120
   
Guard x40, Sword and Shield 280
Greatswords x30 360
Crossbows x30 300
Guard x40, Sword and Shield 280
Guared x10 Halbadiers and shields 80
Handgunners x10 100
   
Pistoliers x5 130
Pistoliers x5 130
  2000

Alternative: *Drop Amber Wizard and add Knight Azyros (reroll hits of 1 with 10") and add Endless spell Shackles.

Pistoliers grab objectives and run around on the flanks. I form 2 Great Companies, 40x Guard, with 30x Crossbow behind, with 30x Greatswords on flank for anvil; supported by Amber wizard. 2nd Company is the 40 gurad, halbardiers on flank for hammer, with handguners behind. Shadow/Jade wizard and general go in the middle to provide buffs to units as needed. Leaning towards Shadow, as he can grant -1 to hit, combine with General Hold the Line, and Amber buffing the Greatswords for hammer unit when enemy charges me. If they don't charge the get pelted by 30x crossbows.  

 

Thoughts?

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Hey guys,

I’m interested in starting a Free People army as I think the General On Griffon looks incredibly boss and is a nice centrepiece.

That said, I was curious as to how viable they are.

I was considering running 2, even 3 generals on Griffons. 

Woukd this be somewhat competitive? Or just get trashed.

How should I build my army around this? 

x40 Guard with sword and shield

+ ??? 

Lacking ranged i’d Imagine. Feedback would be appreciated.

 

tldr: can I run 2-3 generals on Griffon and still have a decent chance to win.

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Hey folks couple of questions:

-How useful is a battlemage on griffon these days? I'd presume it not as killy as the general but containing good spells

-How does one really use outriders or pistoliers? And which are more useful in general? Would pistoliers be charge blasting guns into an enemy and outriders ride into position before letting loose with volleys?

 

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10 hours ago, Talarian said:

Hey guys,

I’m interested in starting a Free People army as I think the General On Griffon looks incredibly boss and is a nice centrepiece.

That said, I was curious as to how viable they are.

I was considering running 2, even 3 generals on Griffons. 

Woukd this be somewhat competitive? Or just get trashed.

How should I build my army around this? 

x40 Guard with sword and shield

+ ??? 

Lacking ranged i’d Imagine. Feedback would be appreciated.

 

tldr: can I run 2-3 generals on Griffon and still have a decent chance to win.

I reckon 2 Griffons are fine (And it's what I currently run) but sometimes you do wonder how other people are fitting in all the toys (and then you remember you fit in a Griffon).

I'm not sure about 3, scenarios these days either favour bodies or heroes with artefacts + wizards (assuming you're playing the newer ones). Both would potentially be a concern with 3 Griffons, because the Griffons do impact your ability to put bodies on the table as well as potentially what allies you can get on the table as well.

To be honest, while Griffons are super good, I've never managed to make a list with 3 that I'd be happy to play with. That being said, I also don't particularly want to buy a 3rd Griffon... Kinda feel they lose some of the coolness having multiples.

 

4 hours ago, Lightbox said:

Hey folks couple of questions:

-How useful is a battlemage on griffon these days? I'd presume it not as killy as the general but containing good spells

-How does one really use outriders or pistoliers? And which are more useful in general? Would pistoliers be charge blasting guns into an enemy and outriders ride into position before letting loose with volleys?

To be completely honest, I'm not sure how I feel about the Battlemage on Griffon. Personally one of the reasons I take Griffons are for the rend -2, and the Battlemage version loses that (in lieu of having more beak attacks which have more reliable damage). The wizard part (like all the battlemages) is quite an average affair, although Amber Spear is definitely quite powerful if it goes off (and you don't blow up your own units).

Personally I feel I'd rather spend allies points on stuff other than Griffons that offer more things to the army. That being said, a Battlemage on Griffon is likely a much better buy than 2 Battlemages.

 

I used to play 5 Pistoliers, and all they ever did was go gungho into the enemy and die. Dunno, I feel that they're just not quite good enough to make the cut at 130 points and it's a big disappointment they didn't come down in GHB2018. At 10 more points, I think I'd be taking Demigryphs every day of the week (And I'm not even sure Demigryphs are good).

That being said, there are a few scenarios in the new set that really require movement (Like Relocation Orb or Shifting Objectives). I think overall the meta is going to force us to be more mobile than the static gunline we prefer to be. So it's possible that there's a good list with these guys in it out there, I just haven't seen it.

Part of the problem our more mobile units in the list suffer from is that there are so many bonuses for standing still. Outriders get bonus to hit. Hold the Line is super good (arguably the only super strong thing free peoples have). And standing still means you're not making use out of your movement.

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36 minutes ago, someone2040 said:

To be completely honest, I'm not sure how I feel about the Battlemage on Griffon. Personally one of the reasons I take Griffons are for the rend -2, and the Battlemage version loses that (in lieu of having more beak attacks which have more reliable damage). The wizard part (like all the battlemages) is quite an average affair, although Amber Spear is definitely quite powerful if it goes off (and you don't blow up your own units).

Personally I feel I'd rather spend allies points on stuff other than Griffons that offer more things to the army. That being said, a Battlemage on Griffon is likely a much better buy than 2 Battlemages.

 

I used to play 5 Pistoliers, and all they ever did was go gungho into the enemy and die. Dunno, I feel that they're just not quite good enough to make the cut at 130 points and it's a big disappointment they didn't come down in GHB2018. At 10 more points, I think I'd be taking Demigryphs every day of the week (And I'm not even sure Demigryphs are good).

That being said, there are a few scenarios in the new set that really require movement (Like Relocation Orb or Shifting Objectives). I think overall the meta is going to force us to be more mobile than the static gunline we prefer to be. So it's possible that there's a good list with these guys in it out there, I just haven't seen it.

Part of the problem our more mobile units in the list suffer from is that there are so many bonuses for standing still. Outriders get bonus to hit. Hold the Line is super good (arguably the only super strong thing free peoples have). And standing still means you're not making use out of your movement.

I do my freeguild as mixed order along with ironweld and collegiate usually so allies isn't too big a pain but yeah I'm unsure on battlemage grif too... might have to try it sometime and see if it does well as I made my griffon so the head and rider can be swapped out.

 

As for pistoliers I can understand that, they don't seem all that long lasting especially having such low range. Demigryphs I do like as an anvil. It's just a shame that all our cavalry seem to be a bit pants... may have to look at other factions for cavalry.

 

Outriders do feel in an odd place, being mobile but also wanting to stand still. I've seen them in lists a few times so kinda wanted to know if people found they were really good at certain scenarios. Mobility does mean jumping on objectives but I'd think demigryphs superior at holding those objectives really.

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5 hours ago, someone2040 said:

I reckon 2 Griffons are fine (And it's what I currently run) but sometimes you do wonder how other people are fitting in all the toys (and then you remember you fit in a Griffon).

I'm not sure about 3, scenarios these days either favour bodies or heroes with artefacts + wizards (assuming you're playing the newer ones). Both would potentially be a concern with 3 Griffons, because the Griffons do impact your ability to put bodies on the table as well as potentially what allies you can get on the table as well.

To be honest, while Griffons are super good, I've never managed to make a list with 3 that I'd be happy to play with. That being said, I also don't particularly want to buy a 3rd Griffon... Kinda feel they lose some of the coolness having multiples.

 

To be completely honest, I'm not sure how I feel about the Battlemage on Griffon. Personally one of the reasons I take Griffons are for the rend -2, and the Battlemage version loses that (in lieu of having more beak attacks which have more reliable damage). The wizard part (like all the battlemages) is quite an average affair, although Amber Spear is definitely quite powerful if it goes off (and you don't blow up your own units).

Personally I feel I'd rather spend allies points on stuff other than Griffons that offer more things to the army. That being said, a Battlemage on Griffon is likely a much better buy than 2 Battlemages.

 

I used to play 5 Pistoliers, and all they ever did was go gungho into the enemy and die. Dunno, I feel that they're just not quite good enough to make the cut at 130 points and it's a big disappointment they didn't come down in GHB2018. At 10 more points, I think I'd be taking Demigryphs every day of the week (And I'm not even sure Demigryphs are good).

That being said, there are a few scenarios in the new set that really require movement (Like Relocation Orb or Shifting Objectives). I think overall the meta is going to force us to be more mobile than the static gunline we prefer to be. So it's possible that there's a good list with these guys in it out there, I just haven't seen it.

Part of the problem our more mobile units in the list suffer from is that there are so many bonuses for standing still. Outriders get bonus to hit. Hold the Line is super good (arguably the only super strong thing free peoples have). And standing still means you're not making use out of your movement.

Would you mind sharing your list? 2 Griffons seems fine to me :)

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Also, is it possible to make a relatively mobile and competitive list? Or am i looking at the wrong army.

mobility is my favourite aspect of warhammer, and the Griffons look awesome as centre pieces.

cheers 

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17 hours ago, Talarian said:

Would you mind sharing your list? 2 Griffons seems fine to me :)

Note I haven't actually played 2k in AoS 2.0 yet, and only a few games at lower points levels. But I was thinking something along these lines for AoS 2.0

Spoiler

Allegiance: Free Peoples
Freeguild General On Griffon (260)
- Shield & Greathammer
- Artefact: Armour of Meteoric Iron 
Freeguild General On Griffon (260)
- Shield & Greathammer
Freeguild General (100)
- General
- Stately War Banner
- Trait: Indomitable 
Knight-Azyros (100)
- Allies
Luminark Of Hysh With White Battlemage (240)
- Allies
30 x Freeguild Guard (240)
- Swords and Shields
30 x Freeguild Crossbowmen (300)
20 x Freeguild Greatswords (280)
3 x Demigryph Knights (140)
- Lance and Sword

Total: 1920 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 340 / 400
Wounds: 139

That being said, it would defintely depend on how much I knew about the scenarios being run. I also don't have my Luminark painted yet, which throws a spanner into things with the new rule of 1/4 units for allies (Can't simply sub him for 2 battlemages). Probably in the mean time I would run an Incantor + 10 Handgunners or Archers.

I would also likely throw in a cheap 20 point endless spell (I just haven't paid much attention to them yet as I'm not really mage heavy...).

There might be a better artefact than the Armour of Meteoric Iron these days. While I've read through all the malign sorcery stuff it hasn't really clicked yet. I haven't been in much of an army designing mood (Somewhat because I tend to run the tournaments, and the next one I might be able to play in isn't for a few months).

I really want to give Greatswords and Demi's another shot, which is why they're in there.

My other potential concern is how easy it's going to be able to manage great companies. In AoS 1.0 I used to run double company, with one larger company and one smaller one. I enjoyed it, but it also tended to make my deployment lopsided as one side always had the stronger company. If larger great companies become too unwieldy I might go back to smaller companies (which naturally leads to archers and handgunners being better).

17 hours ago, Talarian said:

Also, is it possible to make a relatively mobile and competitive list? Or am i looking at the wrong army.

mobility is my favourite aspect of warhammer, and the Griffons look awesome as centre pieces.

cheers 

It's hard to say, because the best synergy that the Free Peoples have access to promotes not being mobile (Hold the Line). That being said, one of our key units got much more manoeuvrable this edition (30x Crossbows) as they lost their restriction to need to stand still to double shot. Coupled with Griffon Generals being able to use their command abilities, and we might find it's not such a pain to move around the battlefield.

I think the only thing that's going to lead to figuring this stuff out is experience. Sadly Free Peoples aren't as popular of a faction these days, so we accumulate this shared knowledge a lot slower than say an army like Stormcast.

For example, I don't really like Pistoliers or Outriders (somewhat biased by experiences in prior edition). But who knows, maybe there's a good list where 10 Pistoliers gallop around and get buffed by a Griffon General? Who knows.

 

That being said, I think if you want a mobile and competitive army there are definitely better options out there. Free Peoples are already pretty mid tier without restricting the units you have available. 

Edited by someone2040

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14 hours ago, Thalassic Monstrosity said:

Quick question - has anyone here used the Manann's Blades models for their Freeguild Guard?

I had a bunch in my cart but backed away because I didn't really like their shields. But I do have a few sets of the ironsides gunners for my hand gunners. Its a personal call.

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I have 5 pistoliers and outriders and I have used them a good amount. Sometimes they are quite bad, but sometimes they win the game for me.

Pistoliers do a couple things well; shooting lots with rend, doing the same attacks in combat, then being able to run reliably fast while charging with shooting. It took me a long time to figure out how to use the reckless riders ability. I now figured out it is meant to skirt a bigger unit and shoot it then charge the rear.  Bonus points for hitting a 5 wound hero in the back that your opponent thought was safe. The most extreme is a turn one 24 inch move, shoot, charge into a brachwrath that got my opponent to concede.

Outriders are harder for me. Being they are harder to buff handgunners. They can work similar to pistoliers as stated above, but are worse in melee. I have had best luck with them in the Freeguild Regiment running with demigryph and pistoliers giving each other plus one to hit. Its one heck of a flanking force. 

I am currently deciding if I want to get 5 more pistols and try a ten man squad.

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On 7/29/2018 at 4:31 AM, Cerlin said:

The most extreme is a turn one 24 inch move, shoot, charge into a brachwrath that got my opponent to concede.

1

You roll 2 dices but must choose only one with the highest number.

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2 hours ago, carloff said:

You roll 2 dices but must choose only one with the highest number.

Yes but that means 12 + d6 run + 2d6 charge  which is minimum 14 but increased to 30 if you roll well. It is not impossible to close the 24" gap and charge turn one.

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On 7/29/2018 at 2:31 AM, Cerlin said:

I have 5 pistoliers and outriders and I have used them a good amount. Sometimes they are quite bad, but sometimes they win the game for me.

Pistoliers do a couple things well; shooting lots with rend, doing the same attacks in combat, then being able to run reliably fast while charging with shooting. It took me a long time to figure out how to use the reckless riders ability. I now figured out it is meant to skirt a bigger unit and shoot it then charge the rear.  Bonus points for hitting a 5 wound hero in the back that your opponent thought was safe. The most extreme is a turn one 24 inch move, shoot, charge into a brachwrath that got my opponent to concede.

Outriders are harder for me. Being they are harder to buff handgunners. They can work similar to pistoliers as stated above, but are worse in melee. I have had best luck with them in the Freeguild Regiment running with demigryph and pistoliers giving each other plus one to hit. Its one heck of a flanking force. 

I am currently deciding if I want to get 5 more pistols and try a ten man squad.

Ooh that sounds interesting. I might have to add a unit of pistoliers into my warlords army this month. Either that or some greatswords.

 

How do people feel about freeguild archers? They seem kinda expensive at 100 points ? unfortunately look like they get outclassed by handguns and crossbows.

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I’m painting up my Altdorf regiment gents! Can’t wait to get this army going. :)

starting and escalation league at my LGS.

beginning at 500 pts with a 1/4 point sideboard. 250 pt increments.

thought I’d start the army with: 

x20 Guard with swords and shields

x10 handgunners 

x10 crossbowman

x1 General

Might not be the most competitive but I’m grabbing that General On Griffon at 750 pts! Will be an awesome centrepiece.

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On 7/5/2018 at 3:22 AM, Creezy said:

What’s The general vibe on the regiment battalion? Anyone had any experience with it?  

It's amazing. Bloody amazing. The blanket +1 to hit and the excellent bravery and standard bonuses are still so good I can't whine about the 10 point increase. 

Also pretty unforgiving if you take your eye off the ball and leave yourself open. 

I play it with 2k matches all the time and I'm still finding clever little things I can do with it. 1390 points gets you the full regiment leaving you 600 points to shift about depending on your mood. Run two great companies, one big 20 guard, 30 xbow, 30 xbow. and one small 20 guard, 10 handgunners, 10 guard and move you greatswords up close to pop off a counter charge as well. Keep the two calvary units together and leave the Demi's out in an exposed position as bait to draw in a nice contact trigger on the lend support when you rush a anchor guard unit up. 

Make sure to take advantage of the xbow great mobility increase from AOS 2.0 when pitching about and make sure to watch your distances. 

Have fun! 

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13 hours ago, Lightbox said:

How do people feel about freeguild archers? They seem kinda expensive at 100 points ? unfortunately look like they get outclassed by handguns and crossbows.

Archers are in a tough spot as a semi-hybrid unit. They have a slightly better combat profile than Handgunners and Crossbows and have an always on re-roll 1's to hit. However, they don't get to synergize as well with Hold the Line as Handgunners or Crossbows do.

The pre-game move means their role leads them to being ranged chaff. Which is a bit awkward as they're not quite cheap enough to be chaff, nor tough enough, and wanting to shoot means they also don't particularly want to be near combat either.

Basically they're not really good at anything, which means they're not a super useful unit. At 30 or 40 points more, I'd rather use Pistoliers, Outriders or Demigryphs as a fast moving unit. At 20 points less, you can argue that Freeguild Guard might be better chaff anyway (Although not quite so fast and lacking ranged damage).

I'm not sure they'd be worth it at 90, but at 80 I think they'd definitely be a worthy consideration (but might actually be a good purchase in a mixed order army which may prevent GW from going that far).

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Thanks for this insight Matador.

6 hours ago, Matador said:

 Run two great companies, one big 20 guard, 30 xbow, 30 xbow. and one small 20 guard, 10 handgunners, 10 guard...

How to you run the larger company? Do you fit both crossbow units wholly within 12" of the Guards? Or is one crossbow-unit supporting the other crossbows but not the guards? I find it hard to position my units in the great companies due to the AoS 2.0 rulechanges.

Thanks for your effords!

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For the Batallion, when it states 3xGuard,

does that mean 1x10 1x10 1x10?

or can it be 3x10 in one unit? 

There’s very little wiggle room for playstyle if it’s the former. 

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The battalion states 3 units of Guards. The modelcount in each unit doesn`t matter as long as you have 3 units. So 3x10 Guards in one unit wouln`t be legal in terms of the battalion because you`d only have one instead of the needed 3 units. On the other hand, one unit of 30 guards and 2 units of 10 guards each would be legal.

This is at least my interpretation of the battalion warscroll.

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3 hours ago, Talarian said:

For the Batallion, when it states 3xGuard,

does that mean 1x10 1x10 1x10?

or can it be 3x10 in one unit? 

There’s very little wiggle room for playstyle if it’s the former. 

Yup, 3 units regardless of models in each. At 2000pts it is rather limiting

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10 hours ago, someone2040 said:

Archers are in a tough spot as a semi-hybrid unit. They have a slightly better combat profile than Handgunners and Crossbows and have an always on re-roll 1's to hit. However, they don't get to synergize as well with Hold the Line as Handgunners or Crossbows do.

The pre-game move means their role leads them to being ranged chaff. Which is a bit awkward as they're not quite cheap enough to be chaff, nor tough enough, and wanting to shoot means they also don't particularly want to be near combat either.

Basically they're not really good at anything, which means they're not a super useful unit. At 30 or 40 points more, I'd rather use Pistoliers, Outriders or Demigryphs as a fast moving unit. At 20 points less, you can argue that Freeguild Guard might be better chaff anyway (Although not quite so fast and lacking ranged damage).

I'm not sure they'd be worth it at 90, but at 80 I think they'd definitely be a worthy consideration (but might actually be a good purchase in a mixed order army which may prevent GW from going that far).

Prior to the 'wholly within' change Archers you could snake tail them out to the middle and use them as an excellent trigger anchor unit out in front of a great company. The changes have made that impossible, but I still like the changes.  

9 hours ago, Stulle said:

Thanks for this insight Matador.

How to you run the larger company? Do you fit both crossbow units wholly within 12" of the Guards? Or is one crossbow-unit supporting the other crossbows but not the guards? I find it hard to position my units in the great companies due to the AoS 2.0 rulechanges.

Thanks for your effords!

I run the guard with militia weapons as well so all three can threaten range, and pivot the two  xbows  in concentric horseshoe formations or sting all three out in range, and occaosionally gofor a tight triangle.

Think of the changes as you friend because it has removed the tricky threat of getting two units within 3" simultaneously in many ways.

The best thing to do is practice moves and positions with terrain and layout by yourself during the week instead of trying to do it in your head or worse yet trying to figure it out on the day, FP really benefits from practice, especially things like moving hordes, measuring distances, removal, etc..  

7 hours ago, Talarian said:

For the Batallion, when it states 3xGuard,

does that mean 1x10 1x10 1x10?

or can it be 3x10 in one unit? 

There’s very little wiggle room for playstyle if it’s the former. 

Got to be 3 separate units, learn to use the extra 10 man unit as a screen against fast movers thrown out ahead to set up a counter charge for Greatswords or you can collect all your guard models with the most crouched poses and use them a very-near line stopgap that can trigger either a 'stand and shoot' or 'lend support' response from the unit behind them, keeping in mind that unit behind will need to be a collection of the taller straight standing guard models so they can shoot over. 

Try to embrace the philosophy that a limitation can be the source of innovation. 

Hope that helps! 

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