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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Free Peoples Discussion

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4 minutes ago, carloff said:

Hello guys. 

Can you spare a word about secondary heroes for FP? The list is almost General - Griff General - 2 Hellstorms - 20 Guards - 20 Handguns - 20 Crossbows - 5 Archers. 

For now, I'm 99% on adding 2 wizards - beast and life...

And what are the best options to bring MORE artefacts for the FP? 

Thanks )

So the 2nd is much easier to answer than the first, there is no good option to bring more artefacts because GW continues to make them a battalion only thing (So armies without battalions, sorry for playing folks).

As to the first question:

The first thing to understand is that if you want to play Free Peoples allegiance, you will be restricted to 400 points of allies. So if you like your Hellstorms, and like 2 of them! Then you can't fit in any other allies.

That being said, it's always good to have a few options you can play around with. Historically Battlemages, Luminarks and Knight Azyros have been interesting allies choices to go in an army.

Quite nicely a Battlemage, Azyros and Hellstorm fit exactly into 400 points also.

Another top pick that could be coming up might be the Knight Incantor. At only 20 points more than a Battlemage, you get a much tougher character with a free automatic unbind and quite an interesting base spell.

I'll throw a curveball out there. Now that you get free Gryph Hounds, the Excelsior Warpriest might also be an interesting allies option. He can unbind, he can heal and he gets a free gryph hound at 80 points.

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10 minutes ago, someone2040 said:

So the 2nd is much easier to answer than the first...

 

Oh, thanks. I'll try to look into mentioned warscrolls. ?

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34 minutes ago, carloff said:

Hello guys. 

Can you spare a word about secondary heroes for FP? The list is almost General - Griff General - 2 Hellstorms - 20 Guards - 20 Handguns - 20 Crossbows - 5 Archers. 

For now, I'm 99% on adding 2 wizards - beast and life...

And what are the best options to bring MORE artefacts for the FP? 

Thanks )

...take the Free People batallion formation is the ONLY way to bring more artefacts into the FP.

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I've been having good luck with my free peoples' army. Pretty much the same list that most people run with the griffons and the handgunners but I threw in my old militiamen in like I always have. People hate them as options for guard but I still love them.

 

I don't necessarily feel like things have changed much for us 'cept for the command ability thing, but that is overcomable (is that even a word?).

Edited by cxiv

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10 minutes ago, cxiv said:

I've been having good luck with my free peoples' army. Pretty much the same list that most people run with the griffons and the handgunners but I threw in my old militiamen in like I always have. People hate them as options for guard but I still love them.

I don't necessarily feel like things have changed much for us 'cept for the command ability thing, but that is overcomable (is that even a word?).

I don't mind the militia, however; I find that they play a very unique role that I probably don't need. A bit of a jack of all trades really.

They aren't as strong in combat as your Guard (swords, halberds or spears) and they aren't as strong in shooting as your Gunners or Crossbow and the Archers get the free move before combat.

Would love to hear how you're effectively using them.

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9 hours ago, someone2040 said:

Quite nicely a Battlemage, Azyros and Hellstorm fit exactly into 400 points also.

 

Using your advice (thanks again!) got something like this 

Knight-Incantor (140) - Allies

Freeguild General (100) - General - Command Trait : Indomitable - Stately War Banner

Freeguild General On Griffon (260) - Greathammer - Artefact : The Broken Shackle

Excelsior Warpriest (80) - Allies

30 x Freeguild Guard (240) - Swords and Shields

20 x Freeguild Crossbowmen (200)

20 x Freeguild Handgunners (200)

10 x Freeguild Archers (100)

5 x Freeguild Pistoliers (130)

3 x Demigryph Knights (140) -Lance and Sword

Helstorm Rocket Battery (180) - Allies

TOTAL: 1770/2000

EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 4

WOUNDS: 134

LEADERS: 4/6

BATTLELINES: 5 (3+)

BEHEMOTHS: 1/4

ARTILLERY: 1/4

ARTEFACTS: 1/1

ALLIES: 400/400

So, it's 230 pts left to spend... its Greatswords with Endless spells or more Pistoliers.

Edited by carloff

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13 hours ago, MrCharisma said:

I don't mind the militia, however; I find that they play a very unique role that I probably don't need. A bit of a jack of all trades really.

They aren't as strong in combat as your Guard (swords, halberds or spears) and they aren't as strong in shooting as your Gunners or Crossbow and the Archers get the free move before combat.

Would love to hear how you're effectively using them.

I keep a unit of 30 as sort of a back line anvil. The enemy is too busy focusing on the griffons and handgunners that they don't suspect the blob of militiamen that I can move up the center if I get pushed back. They make an obscene amount of attacks when you combine their decent shooting and melee attacks after their buffs.

 

I just really REALLY wish we could get CP easier.

 

 

 

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On 7/10/2018 at 12:28 PM, Thalassic Monstrosity said:

I don't suppose you have pictures?

Ask and you shall receive.

I personally prefer the demigryph models. But choose your favorite.

 

15320203007539035257358209348584.jpg

20180719_101001.jpg

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On 7/9/2018 at 1:51 PM, Jamopower said:

Does the Hold the line prevent the units from piling in? I somehow remember that it used to be so that "pile in move" and "move"  were different things, but apparently it's not like that any more as the rules specify "move" to be any kind of move and "normal move" to be the one you do on your movement phase. Don't get me wrong, it's much clearer this way, but it does make the command ability a bit worse. 

Is this confirmed because this seems an unnecessary and counter intuitive nerf? How can you "hold a line" if your back ranks can't reinforce said line?

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37 minutes ago, Black Blade said:

Is this confirmed because this seems an unnecessary and counter intuitive nerf? How can you "hold a line" if your back ranks can't reinforce said line?

It's not a nerf because it's been this way for at least the last year (It was in the GHB2017 FAQ).

As it's written, Hold the Line prevents movement during your turn. 

If you want it changed, what I would suggest is emailing the FAQ team playing dumb asking about it. If they realise it's counter-intuitive and doesn't make a whole lot of sense then they're more likely to errata it (or at least change it if we ever get a battletome).

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20 hours ago, someone2040 said:

It's not a nerf because it's been this way for at least the last year (It was in the GHB2017 FAQ).

As it's written, Hold the Line prevents movement during your turn. 

If you want it changed, what I would suggest is emailing the FAQ team playing dumb asking about it. If they realise it's counter-intuitive and doesn't make a whole lot of sense then they're more likely to errata it (or at least change it if we ever get a battletome).

Im am still very unsure how you prove your reading. Have any link or screen shot?

The rules could easily say "any movement on your turn" and instead say "move and charge" which are 2 kinds of movement but not exhaustive.

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26 minutes ago, Cerlin said:

Im am still very unsure how you prove your reading. Have any link or screen shot?

The rules could easily say "any movement on your turn" and instead say "move and charge" which are 2 kinds of movement but not exhaustive.

NormalMoves.png.474029e0f92bb3f9c1998b5d416ec8c9.png

All 3 types of movement in the game are considered 'moves'. A regular movement is called a Normal Move.

As the rules are written, because it specifies moves it restricts all 3 types of movement (and potentially any other movement you could do, not that Free Peoples have access to anything like it) regardless of the fact that listing charge a second time is redundant.

 

For the record, ideally the rule would be errated to be clearer as the wording is definitely questionable in intent. Certainly I agree that the fact they list charges as well does call into question as to what they actually intended for this rule.

 

But what I'm not arguing about is intent (and certainly I won't pretend to know the designers intent). I'm just arguing, that the rule as it's written is clear in what you can and can't do in your turn - you aren't able to move, and therefore that means normal move, charge move, pile-in move or any other type of move.

Edited by someone2040
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This reasoning seems sound. I may just house rule it though as long as no one thinks it's broken to be able to pile in. Thanks for laying it out. Should I play in any events I'll count on the more strict interpretation.

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Yeah, it's a glitsch from the term inconsestiencies on the rules writing and update, hopefully it gets cleared out in a faq, as it's pretty inlogical that you can pile-in only on your opponent's turn. 

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23 hours ago, someone2040 said:

NormalMoves.png.474029e0f92bb3f9c1998b5d416ec8c9.png

All 3 types of movement in the game are considered 'moves'. A regular movement is called a Normal Move.

As the rules are written, because it specifies moves it restricts all 3 types of movement (and potentially any other movement you could do, not that Free Peoples have access to anything like it) regardless of the fact that listing charge a second time is redundant.

 

For the record, ideally the rule would be errated to be clearer as the wording is definitely questionable in intent. Certainly I agree that the fact they list charges as well does call into question as to what they actually intended for this rule.

 

But what I'm not arguing about is intent (and certainly I won't pretend to know the designers intent). I'm just arguing, that the rule as it's written is clear in what you can and can't do in your turn - you aren't able to move, and therefore that means normal move, charge move, pile-in move or any other type of move.

Even according to your example, I only see how the new rules limit 2 of thr 3 movement types. It does not expressly limit combat movement, so how then is it limited?

The rule you quote states that the 3 kinds of normal moves are differentiated and only 2 of the 3 are Expressly limited. How can you argue the pile in rule is equally limited when not stated as such?

If all movement types were banned, the rule could just say that, which would include charges, but for me it does not seem to do so.

If the rule banned all normal moves OR move, charge, and pile in moves it would say so.

20180722_210600.jpg

Edited by Cerlin

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It's because the movement in the movement phase is now called a "normal move" while "move" refers to any sort of movement. The classification has changed in the new edition as the pile-in move was specified in a faq to be a different kind of move, which is no longer the case and the rules of Hold the line are unfortunately still written using the old edition terms where a "move" means a different thing. 

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So I've been thinking, is there any real reason for Collegiate Arcane, Ironweld Arsenal, Devoted of Sigmar and the Freeguild to be broken up as they are? To me it would make sense if they were all Faction: Free Peoples or something like that. I'd like to represent a homebrew Grand City with the Free Guild traits, artifacts etc but also take wizards and warrior priests without worrying about the allies thing. While I'm on the topic I dont understand why warrior priests prayers obly affected other devoted of sigmar units. Seems a bit too restricting no?

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Does anyone think the Battle Wizards from CA are overpriced? Especially considering the new Knight Encantor is only 20 pts more and way better in every way? I don't think the argument "gets to pick its 3rd spell" is valid either considering they are all mostly decent and balanced around the point cost supposedly.

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4 hours ago, Cerlin said:

Even according to your example, I only see how the new rules limit 2 of thr 3 movement types. It does not expressly limit combat movement, so how then is it limited?

The rule you quote states that the 3 kinds of normal moves are differentiated and only 2 of the 3 are Expressly limited. How can you argue the pile in rule is equally limited when not stated as such?

If all movement types were banned, the rule could just say that, which would include charges, but for me it does not seem to do so.

If the rule banned all normal moves OR move, charge, and pile in moves it would say so.

I'm not going to argue with you any further on this topic as all it's going to do is go back and forth.

32 minutes ago, Black Blade said:

Does anyone think the Battle Wizards from CA are overpriced? Especially considering the new Knight Encantor is only 20 pts more and way better in every way? I don't think the argument "gets to pick its 3rd spell" is valid either considering they are all mostly decent and balanced around the point cost supposedly.

Personally I'm not really sure why they went up 20 points. It feels quite arbitrary, and many TO's rule that you need to state your specialization on your list (In the same manner as chaos marks and equipment). 

Arguably some of the spells he has access to have gotten better (the damage spells) due to the nerf to Arcane Bolt, but certainly I still feel that the buffing spells are a better call. Maybe there's a case for Fireball.

The only thing that the Battlemage has going for it IMO is that his spells in general are lower casting value as well as some unbinding synergy with the Luminark. Otherwise the Incantor has a much more interesting spell, auto-unbind once per battle, spirit flask bombs as well as having a far superior statline.

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8 minutes ago, someone2040 said:

I'm not going to argue with you any further on this topic as all it's going to do is go back and forth.

Personally I'm not really sure why they went up 20 points. It feels quite arbitrary, and many TO's rule that you need to state your specialization on your list (In the same manner as chaos marks and equipment). 

Arguably some of the spells he has access to have gotten better (the damage spells) due to the nerf to Arcane Bolt, but certainly I still feel that the buffing spells are a better call. Maybe there's a case for Fireball.

The only thing that the Battlemage has going for it IMO is that his spells in general are lower casting value as well as some unbinding synergy with the Luminark. Otherwise the Incantor has a much more interesting spell, auto-unbind once per battle, spirit flask bombs as well as having a far superior statline.

I'm inclined to agree with your assessment. As much as I like my "normal humans standing up to inhuman horrors theme" I think I have to switch out my Wizard for a KI. The Battlemage was already a super squishy spellcaster it doesn't make sense to not have a Wizard that will last more rounds casting longer for 20 points more. If anything I could have seen them dropping 10 or 20 points let alone a 20 point increase. 

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Question for anyone that might know.  Do Freeguild models from the GW webstore come with round bases or do I need to purchase those separately?

Hopefully this isn't off topic.  Thanks for the help!

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1 minute ago, BarrowLord said:

Question for anyone that might know.  Do Freeguild models from the GW webstore come with round bases or do I need to purchase those separately?

Hopefully this isn't off topic.  Thanks for the help!

Recently I've bought the mounted general with the stately war banner and a unit of pistoleers and they had the old square & rectangular bases. Almost anything you pick up off of E-bay or Amazon will have square bases too.

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3 hours ago, BarrowLord said:

Question for anyone that might know.  Do Freeguild models from the GW webstore come with round bases or do I need to purchase those separately?

Hopefully this isn't off topic.  Thanks for the help!

Sadly the whole list is that way. I do not think anything is on rounds.

Either a lot of rebasing or squares. I kept squares myself.

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9 hours ago, someone2040 said:

I'm not going to argue with you any further on this topic as all it's going to do is go back and forth.

Personally I'm not really sure why they went up 20 points. It feels quite arbitrary, and many TO's rule that you need to state your specialization on your list (In the same manner as chaos marks and equipment). 

Arguably some of the spells he has access to have gotten better (the damage spells) due to the nerf to Arcane Bolt, but certainly I still feel that the buffing spells are a better call. Maybe there's a case for Fireball.

The only thing that the Battlemage has going for it IMO is that his spells in general are lower casting value as well as some unbinding synergy with the Luminark. Otherwise the Incantor has a much more interesting spell, auto-unbind once per battle, spirit flask bombs as well as having a far superior statline.

I am with you there, there is no more to be gained. This can use a rewrite and FAQ clarification.

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