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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Free Peoples Discussion

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Apologies if this has already been covered, i couldnt find it, but what is the consensus about what is better between crassbows and handguns?  What have people found?

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On 1/18/2019 at 4:46 PM, Molt said:

The knight azyros seems quite nice in free peoples as it works well with the griffons (4+ for D6 with the Swords and the command ability) as well as shooting (especially the unreliable luminark...).

I don't know where people constantly get the idea that Azyros gives +1 to hit cuz he clearly does not...
He allows you to re-roll hit rolls of 1 against enemy units within range of his lantern

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Quick question; I’m doing the rounds trying to find out what to do with the old aelf models, and I was wondering, are there any aelve units you could see sitting nicely in a free people’s book?  Because although free peoples should be 98% human, I’m sure there’s room for some aelves and duardin?  

Looking through the range, I could see the swift hawk agents working well under the free peoples banner.  The chariots and skycutters can be the messengers, but the shadow warriors could be like a sort of ‘special forces’ unit, being all ranger like and so on.  And then there’s the assassin, who could be like a sort of inquisitional enforcer, hunting down and rooting out chaos and necromancers. 

What about the others?

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22 hours ago, Trav said:

Apologies if this has already been covered, i couldnt find it, but what is the consensus about what is better between crassbows and handguns?  What have people found?

Guns for rend are good but they're shorter in range. 

Crossbows have 2 x attack if they're in a squad bigger than 20. If you aren't planning on running squads of 30 crossbows then go with handguns :) 

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7 hours ago, Arkanaut Admiral said:

Looking through the range, I could see the swift hawk agents working well under the free peoples banner.  The chariots and skycutters can be the messengers, but the shadow warriors could be like a sort of ‘special forces’ unit, being all ranger like and so on.  And then there’s the assassin, who could be like a sort of inquisitional enforcer, hunting down and rooting out chaos and necromancers. 

@Warbossironteef already mentioned something alike in this thread. I think it is a cool idea to mix different races in one unit. By this you can form a real Free Peoples army with duardin, aelf and humans in it.


For mixing there are several possibilities:
- Crossbows with Darkshards or Quarrellers
- Archers with Glade Guard or Sisters of the Watch
- Greatswords with Swordmasters
- Guards with Sword and Shield will go well with Dispossessed Warriors, Shadow Warrios(if you give them Shields) or some bleakswords
- Guards with Halberds will work with Phoenix Guard or Longbeards, i think
- Guards with Spears can be matched with Eternal Guard
- Handgunners and Thunderers will go well aside each other too

You can go even more crazy if you just switch some heads, imagine the look of some aleves in FreeGuild uniforms :)
Or you just switch the shileds of all races around.

You could also pick a hero character and use it as champion for your units. Imagine a Waystrider for Greatswords or a Waywatcher for your Archers. An Unforged or a Nomad Prince in a block of FreeGuild Guards will be nice too.

I`m planning something like this for the future. But at the moment I`m blown away by the possibilities and don`t know were to start without buying just everything GW has to offer. :D

Oh man, I`m hyped again. I wish you all of luck with your ideas. And please leave some pictures afterwards :)

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Hey Guy, 

new to Warhammer (again...started Fantasy back then) and totally adore the flair of the Free People. Got some leftovers from my first attempt to join the game:

10 Free Guard (unarmed yet)
10 Greatswords
10 Riflers
10 Flagellants
10 Archers
1 General with Gun and Sigmarite Hammer
1 Warpriest with 2 Sigmarite Hammers

I am aiming for a 1000 Point army at first (was thinking to add Pistolets, really like the tactical use).

Colorscemewise I am aiming for a Marienburg financed revolutionary army in Midheim (so I got rather poorly armored guys in Blue-Blue-Yellow Feathers Uniform and more colorful well equipped Marienburg Lads in bright yellow-red-blue-white scemes, with my Officers and Generals wearing White&Blue stripes.


Now, I noticed that Flagellants and Warpriests got split to a proper faction (?!). So I am wondering whether these are still a viable/reasonable option to build an army with...back then adding Warpriests to halberds was supposedly the best thing to do.

Reading through different blogs and threats, I got a little confused as to how units are best equipped. Many say the best distance fighters are 30+ xbows and Riflers are useless. Then I read that the only reasonable thing to do with Free Guard was to equip them with militia weapons, adding a ranged attack to them? Most lists I found in here use Sword and Shield as defense line and totally ignore Halberds and Spears?

Lorewise I aim to avoid Demigryph Knights, big Guns/Artillery (though I might be open for suggestions here), Mages and those gigantic carts. I really wanted to give it the look of many weak units that get strong when working strong in detatchments and stuff...

Can you give me some feedback on my ideas and the competitiveness of it? :) 

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5 hours ago, Ernst said:

Hey Guy, 

new to Warhammer (again...started Fantasy back then) and totally adore the flair of the Free People. Got some leftovers from my first attempt to join the game:

10 Free Guard (unarmed yet)
10 Greatswords
10 Riflers
10 Flagellants
10 Archers
1 General with Gun and Sigmarite Hammer
1 Warpriest with 2 Sigmarite Hammers

I am aiming for a 1000 Point army at first (was thinking to add Pistolets, really like the tactical use).

Colorscemewise I am aiming for a Marienburg financed revolutionary army in Midheim (so I got rather poorly armored guys in Blue-Blue-Yellow Feathers Uniform and more colorful well equipped Marienburg Lads in bright yellow-red-blue-white scemes, with my Officers and Generals wearing White&Blue stripes.


Now, I noticed that Flagellants and Warpriests got split to a proper faction (?!). So I am wondering whether these are still a viable/reasonable option to build an army with...back then adding Warpriests to halberds was supposedly the best thing to do.

Reading through different blogs and threats, I got a little confused as to how units are best equipped. Many say the best distance fighters are 30+ xbows and Riflers are useless. Then I read that the only reasonable thing to do with Free Guard was to equip them with militia weapons, adding a ranged attack to them? Most lists I found in here use Sword and Shield as defense line and totally ignore Halberds and Spears?

Lorewise I aim to avoid Demigryph Knights, big Guns/Artillery (though I might be open for suggestions here), Mages and those gigantic carts. I really wanted to give it the look of many weak units that get strong when working strong in detatchments and stuff...

Can you give me some feedback on my ideas and the competitiveness of it? :) 

They did split up the Empire faction into subfactions when AOS came out. Just like a lot of other armies. Currently they're now releasing battletomes combining some armies back into a single faction, theres no official word yet if we'll get this treatment, but we're a prime target!

 

Sword and sheild or militia weapons seem to be the current go to choice for guard. But if you're not playing competitively, build whatever you want.

Crosssbows are dope, but handgunners get the long rifle which you can use to snipe commanders with its long range.

Currently the warrior priest is pretty much useless, we're all hopeful that they get updated so that they work well with the army. Currently they can only pray/heal units from its tiny little subfaction making them next to useless.

 

They're all cool models, I'm painting mine up since I just love the army's ascetic as well. Best of luck!

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However, you could use your Priest and Flagellants as allies for Free People. Nevertheless, they are weaker in a Free People Army than in a Devoted of Sigmar Army (their own subfaction), because they really Shine If they are buffed by Priests and Altar.

Regarding State Troops, Sword and Board is the way to go, because they got a better save, combined with a general's trait they can Go Up to a 3+ save re-rolling ones. 

Concerning the shooty faction, there is a simple rule of thumb: Smalltalk units- muscetiers, large units- X-bows. X-bows are only strong in big Units of 20+ because they can Then Shoot twice. Muscetiers can have a unit Champion with the very strong Hochland Long rifle, so multiple small Units mean multiple Hochland rifles. 

 

Regarding Demigryphs: It is better to go for chars on Griffon than for Demigryphs. Griffons are pretty strong and cheap for a Monster+ Charakter, whereas Demigryphs can somewhat stand their ground, but have a hard time dealing damage.

 

 

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Thanks for your feedback. :)

What general's trait are you refering to, @Salyx?

Sounds like Musceteers is the way I wanna go :). Can Musceteers also have a Hochland Long Rifle if they are a detatchment to, say, State Troops?
 I really would like to add Pistolets into the mix, too. Do you guys have made some experience with them? How do they work out on the new rules?  are 10 too many? 

Just out of curiosity. Nobody ever mentions Archers in their list, also they are ignored in all the articles of players about the Free People.
Are they just bad?! Their stats actually sound fine. Cheap, reasonable range and hit chance, and the awesome reroll ability. Is it a fallacy?

So, when building a 1000pts Army, how many Generals would you suggest? (Thinking General by foot only; no Griffon, no Horse)

Also, I heard GW is going to release some new rulebooks aiming for Factions that don't have one yet! Maybe free people will get one? Maybe also new Units?? Still am very sad they removed the cavalry....

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The generals trait is "Indomitable". It gives all units wholly within 12" a +1 to their save rolls. I take this one all the time :)

You can always have a Hochland rifle, one per unit of handgunners. But on the competitive side I would take a look at those Xbows. They really shine with 20" range shots over the 16" of the regular handgunners. This is nearly one whole movement phase!

The Pistoliers don`t go really well in my opinion. You cannot include them in a great company because they`re meant to be in the open on there own. It`s not that they are really bad. It`s just that you get much better stuff for the points. For 10 pistoliers you get a general on griffon which will do a lot more work for you :)

Archers are kinda ok. But only for their movement before the battle. You can zone out certain places or bait the enemy into a stupid charge. But if you only look at them regarding the shooting performance, I think Handgunners and XBows clearly outperform them.

So for a 1000 point army I would take one general on horse. He has superior movement, more attacks and doesn`t cost you more points. In fact he`s only there for casting "Hold the Line" on your shooting units. Maybe at the end of the game he gets on an objective. But he`s mostly a buffing character. In a 1000 point army I`d run him with "Indomitable" and "Writ of Dominion". With this you can buff your units really, really well.

Regarding a FreePeople batletome.  It`s sad but I don`t think that we will see something alike. The miniatures just don`t fit into the new AoS universe. I guess there will be a new human race in the future. The FreePeople as we know them atm will be discontinued and vanish in the world that was.

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Heyho,

We had a rules discussion last week and I wanted to ask you guys if We understand the Free Peoples crossbowmen/handgunners rules in the right way. We are no english natives so maybe one of you could clarify the following problem: Lets say that there are two units - a unit of crossbowmen and a unit of handgunners standing somewhat like 8 inches apart from each other - both contain a musician (called piper)
Lets say that the unit of handgunners gets charged by a unit of blightkings while the unit of crossbowmen is out of danger behind the lines.

Does the Effect of the Piper trigger for both units in that specific scenario?
The rules for the pipers:
"Models in this unit may be pipers. Once per turn if an enemy unit ends its charge move within 3 inches of a unit that includes any pipers, they can signal their unit to stand and shoot; each model can then shoot its crossbow at the charging unit."

In my interpretation the charged unit of handgunners is allowed to shoot at the blightkings at the end of the charge move because of their own piper AND the unit of crossbowmen is also allowed to shoot at the charging unit of blightkings because of their own pipers even thought they are not the unit which is charged because the effect is triggerd as long as "an enemy unit ends its charge move within 3 inches of A unit that includes any pipers"

Maybe someone of you guys could help me and clarify my question. Thanks a lot.

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@Stulle thank you so much for your feedback.

I think I get a shape of what I want... really unfortunate to hear about the potential future of Free People though...

Do I understand you correctly, that you suggest just the one General, namely the mounted General?
Is there any kind of downside to the mounted General? Why is the cost exactly the same to a classic General, if the stasts are purely  identical? Is he more vulnurable to Magic/Missiles/etc.? My thoughtprocess is: if its pure and best use is to buff units - which seems to be common sense - why should he be faster than the units he buffs?
Also, why not two or more generals to buff the different parts of your army?

I gotta say, despite their shooting performances, I really really dislike x-bows. Their look is weird. They don't really fit into the Pike&Shotte era they are aiming for with their look.

Do things like rear charges still exist, btw? 

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The Free Peoples/ Empire aesthetic is preserved in AoS, many of the novels feature similar style clothing albeit in uncommon colors; with the exception of one cover being the Red Hours.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Xmas-Novella-8-The-Red-Hours-pb-2018

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Eight-Lamentations-Spear-Of-Shadows-Pb-2018

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Eight-Lamantations-War-Claw-2018

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Callis-Toll-The-Silver-Shard-hb-Eng-2018

So don't worry, the Free Peoples aren't going anywhere. What will likely happen is that a (potential) Free Peoples release will focus on a different theme within the army, while preserving the current range. It would likely be something to do with the Cogforts and the steam-punk vibe. They'll be compatible either way, like how Devoted of Sigmar is essentially a subsection of the Free Peoples. If future human models have those puffy clothes and pantaloons then they won't look out of place; after all, it's literally written into the lore.

 

On another note; I would be content with continuing Free Peoples as an ever-present allegiance in the General's Handbook. I would like to see a Malign Portents-style Freeguild hero release, something akin to a lieutenant, since they have everything bar enough support heroes. Hypothetically, some dude that grants +1 attack or something that GW just throws out there at almost no expense. One small change I'd like to see would be a rule within their allegiance abilities that allows them to choose allies from Ironweld, Collegiate and Devoted without the points restriction of allies, but that's a wild card.

 

Looking at the recent trend of Skaven and Flesh Eaters, Flesh Eaters in particular, I can see a Free Peoples book that contains the aforementioned sub-factions being very likely, although not any time soon. Free Peoples literally have more going for them model wise than FEC, granted we can dive down the IP rabbit hole but I'd rather not. It seems GW has solidified their direction when it comes to generic period style aesthetics; it's staying.

 

Now another Firestorm book seems to be people's general train of thought, and I'd agree to a point. That point being, if we rolled all the 'Free City' units into a new book, the book would be absolutely colossal. I think it won't happen (provided GW updates the warscrolls and doesn't just give allegiance abilities) simply due to what the product would entail. A Free Peoples book that contains all the old Empire range seems more likely.

Hell if FEC can get another book with their limited range, even the Dispossessed can!

 

One last note; I wish the Guard rules of Shield and Parry were swapped around; it makes more sense that a parry grants rerolls of 1 while a shield confers +1 save. This is just a somewhat realistic take on the matter, even though it would make Halberdiers much better.

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8 hours ago, Ernst said:

why should he be faster than the units he buffs?

He can be a thread at the end of the game. With his superior movement he can often take an empty objective in the last turn and so maybe swing the game. And there is no downside for being mounted. Except the fact that he`s more difficult to hide behind terrain pieces.

8 hours ago, Ernst said:

Also, why not two or more generals to buff the different parts of your army? 

In a 1000 point army you shouldn`t have more than 3 units which will need the buff. Don`t forget that you may not move when buffed.  That`s a big downside.
A command point is also needed. And you won`t have many. So a second general will make no sence imo.

 

@Knight Scáthach of Fimm thanks for your detailed thoughts. I`m with you in many points. There will be a human race in AoS. I have absolutly no doubt in this. But I don`t think that the current model range will survive. The models are too close to the world that was.  Many have "Karl Franz" written on them. Or the twin-tailed comet as a symbol, hailing Sigmars return. This just don`t fit into AoS right now. In my opinion we will see a complete new human race in a steam punk style, as you mentioned.  I just hope that the feel of teh army won`t change. I like the allegiance abillity alot from the fluffy side :)

 

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On 2/10/2019 at 5:41 PM, Maier666 said:

Heyho,

We had a rules discussion last week and I wanted to ask you guys if We understand the Free Peoples crossbowmen/handgunners rules in the right way. We are no english natives so maybe one of you could clarify the following problem: Lets say that there are two units - a unit of crossbowmen and a unit of handgunners standing somewhat like 8 inches apart from each other - both contain a musician (called piper)
Lets say that the unit of handgunners gets charged by a unit of blightkings while the unit of crossbowmen is out of danger behind the lines.

Does the Effect of the Piper trigger for both units in that specific scenario?
The rules for the pipers:
"Models in this unit may be pipers. Once per turn if an enemy unit ends its charge move within 3 inches of a unit that includes any pipers, they can signal their unit to stand and shoot; each model can then shoot its crossbow at the charging unit."

In my interpretation the charged unit of handgunners is allowed to shoot at the blightkings at the end of the charge move because of their own piper AND the unit of crossbowmen is also allowed to shoot at the charging unit of blightkings because of their own pipers even thought they are not the unit which is charged because the effect is triggerd as long as "an enemy unit ends its charge move within 3 inches of A unit that includes any pipers"

Maybe someone of you guys could help me and clarify my question. Thanks a lot.

Haha no. 'A' in this case refers to the unit that contains the pipers i.e the one being charged.

A unit of handgunners for example may not include A piper after all. They are optional or could have been slain. 

 

For the rule to work as you wish it would have to include the word ANY pipers instead. 

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10 hours ago, Knight Scáthach of Fimm said:

I explain the Karl Franz part as being a patron saint of the army, I'm sure Sigmar's probably mentioned him before. At least for my army.

Unless they re-sculpt all the old models, I am very interested to hear if GW has any official explanation for why Freeguild carry the name of a dead emperor from another world on their armor. Especially when records from the World that Was are extremely rare and often indecipherable.

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4 hours ago, Ironbreaker said:

Unless they re-sculpt all the old models, I am very interested to hear if GW has any official explanation for why Freeguild carry the name of a dead emperor from another world on their armor. Especially when records from the World that Was are extremely rare and often indecipherable.

Honestly, the easiest solution would be my idea. Sigmar probably mentioned him during the Age of Myth and just like any good story it got passed down. He'd be like King Arthur; a concept and an ideal more than an actual man who lived.

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A friend of mine at work wants to get into AoS2, but is sad that there is no battle tome for TFP. Are they still viable for play, or is it better to hold off?

Edited by knas

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On 2/25/2019 at 1:50 AM, knas said:

A friend of mine at work wants to get into AoS2, but is sad that there is no battle tome for TFP. Are they still viable for play, or is it better to hold off?

As it is right now, TFP will probably not get any sort of support, but I don't keep up with rumors super closely   

 

However, with the recent Beasts and Skaven books, my hopes of GW kind of "restarting" some of the older armies might be a reality due to the relative success of the Total War series.  I personally would love to see a human army that isn't second fiddle to fantasy Space Marines. 

Edited by BaronBanana

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Hi all,

I`m playing a little tournament this weekend. WIll most likly face an Idoneth list and wanted to ask you folks for some tricks and tips. :)
My list will be this one:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Free Peoples
Mortal Realm: Ulgu

Leaders
Luminark of Hysh With White Battlemage (240)
- Allies
Freeguild General on Griffon (260)
- General
- Shield & Runesword
- Trait: Indomitable
- Artefact: Sword of Judgement
Freeguild General on Griffon (260)
- Shield & Greathammer
Freeguild General (100)
- Stately War Banner

Battleline
20 x Freeguild Guard (160)
- Swords and Shields
20 x Freeguild Guard (160)
- Swords and Shields
30 x Freeguild Crossbowmen (300)
30 x Freeguild Crossbowmen (300)
10 x Freeguild Archers (100)
10 x Freeguild Handgunners (100)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 240 / 400
Wounds: 162

The Idoneth Deepkin list will be teh following one:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Idoneth Deepkin

Leaders
Spellweaver (100)
- Blows of Mystic Power
- Allies
Isharann Soulscryer (100)
Isharann Tidecaster (100)
- General
- Trait: Born From Agony
- Lore of the Deeps: Steed of Tides
Akhelian King (240)
- Artefact: Cloud of Midnight

Battleline
10 x Namarti Thralls (140)
10 x Namarti Thralls (140)
10 x Namarti Thralls (140)

Units
5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (80)
- Allies
9 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (480)
9 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (480)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 180 / 400
Wounds: 129

We will play one of three sceanrios: "Better Part of Valor", "Knife to the Heart" or "Places of Arcane Power".

I never played Idoneth before so I would be really glad to here some tips or stuff I have to look out for when playing.

I think he can either turn the tides, charge turn one and make his major blow turn two. Or he will play normal tides and skip the first round doing nothing. I`ll try to build my castle with nearly everything inside and try to baid him into charges with shoots of the Luminark. I think that I won`t stand a chance when i split my units apart.

Thanks for your opinions!

 

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On 2/28/2019 at 4:42 AM, Stulle said:

Hi all,

I`m playing a little tournament this weekend. WIll most likly face an Idoneth list and wanted to ask you folks for some tricks and tips. :)
My list will be this one:

  Reveal hidden contents

Allegiance: Free Peoples
Mortal Realm: Ulgu

Leaders
Luminark of Hysh With White Battlemage (240)
- Allies
Freeguild General on Griffon (260)
- General
- Shield & Runesword
- Trait: Indomitable
- Artefact: Sword of Judgement
Freeguild General on Griffon (260)
- Shield & Greathammer
Freeguild General (100)
- Stately War Banner

Battleline
20 x Freeguild Guard (160)
- Swords and Shields
20 x Freeguild Guard (160)
- Swords and Shields
30 x Freeguild Crossbowmen (300)
30 x Freeguild Crossbowmen (300)
10 x Freeguild Archers (100)
10 x Freeguild Handgunners (100)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 240 / 400
Wounds: 162

The Idoneth Deepkin list will be teh following one:

  Reveal hidden contents

Allegiance: Idoneth Deepkin

Leaders
Spellweaver (100)
- Blows of Mystic Power
- Allies
Isharann Soulscryer (100)
Isharann Tidecaster (100)
- General
- Trait: Born From Agony
- Lore of the Deeps: Steed of Tides
Akhelian King (240)
- Artefact: Cloud of Midnight

Battleline
10 x Namarti Thralls (140)
10 x Namarti Thralls (140)
10 x Namarti Thralls (140)

Units
5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (80)
- Allies
9 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (480)
9 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (480)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 180 / 400
Wounds: 129

We will play one of three sceanrios: "Better Part of Valor", "Knife to the Heart" or "Places of Arcane Power".

I never played Idoneth before so I would be really glad to here some tips or stuff I have to look out for when playing.

I think he can either turn the tides, charge turn one and make his major blow turn two. Or he will play normal tides and skip the first round doing nothing. I`ll try to build my castle with nearly everything inside and try to baid him into charges with shoots of the Luminark. I think that I won`t stand a chance when i split my units apart.

Thanks for your opinions!

 

What is the intention of the small archer and handgunner units? They're extremely squishy.

I'd assume the handgunners are there for the long rifle to snipe heroes? 

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Saxon said:

What is the intention of the small archer and handgunner units?

The main purpose is to form the two great companies. Therefore I need 2 units of minimum 10 models each. I`ve choosen the archers for their scout move to zone out some territory before the battle begins. The Handgunners are mainly for this one long range shot. I know that I could have taken Guards instead but I like the shooting :)

Edited by Stulle

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On 3/1/2019 at 5:35 PM, Stulle said:

The main purpose is to form the two great companies. Therefore I need 2 units of minimum 10 models each. I`ve choosen the archers for their scout move to zone out some territory before the battle begins. The Handgunners are mainly for this one long range shot. I know that I could have taken Guards instead but I like the shooting :)

I've never used archers, I just couldn't see them doing anything for my army.

The long shot is always good but handgunners are a squishy target. You want to keep them as safe as you can to get 2-3 long shot's off. Do Idoneth Deepkin have any teleport/deepstrike abilities? I've never faced them.  

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