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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Free Peoples Discussion

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Morning all,

Here is the new thread for discussing Free Peoples. With the imminent release of AoS 2 (and a lot of the info already being out there), now is the time for us to start afresh on TGA.

Moving forward, this will be the main thread to chat about and discuss Free Peoples in the new edition. I still wholly encourage people to keep their own threads/army blogs within this sub forum and I also think those are a great place to share some photos as I know not everyone frequents the Painting & Modelling section (like me!). But this thread is purely for discussion around the faction, things such as (but not limited to) tactics and list building etc. You all know the drill, we've been doing it on this forum since inception!

For newer players, I would say the older thread could still be worth perusal and whilst it is now locked for further replies, you can find it here - http://www.tga.community/forums/topic/2772-lets-chat-free-peoples/

Really excited to see what we can come up with as a community and I look forward to reading all your ideas and thoughts.

Chris

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So, let us get started. after a little WhatsApp chat, I am thinking this for an event in July

Griffon - General with indom (+1 save when not charging) 

Griffon (2nd beast)

General with banner (hold the line)

Luminark (lasers and a wizard)

Knight incantor (dispel scroll and a wizard)

30 swords

30 xbows

10 Greatswords (above in a company near the banner and luminark)

10 Outriders (try to flank the enemy and usr griffons trait for +1 to hit and stay nearby to get the save bonus)

1940 if I did my math right, so an extra command point and maybe a triumph

Thoughts?

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Any particular reason for bows over handgunners? I've not long started a Free Peoples army and have been thinking of a similar core of 30 guard with sword and board but then 30 handgunners instead. Slightly shorter range but can be hitting on 2's and have a rend.

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Mainly because I have some painted but I would prefer handguns if I have the time...if that was the case though I'd go with 3x 10 to get the extra long rifles.

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So I have a quick question about Demigryph Knights.  I know they are not exactly superlative heavy cavalry, but they are getting cheaper.  So how do most people field them; halberd or lance?  Is the extra Damage on the charge worth it?  

I'm asking because I equipped lances on my Saurus Knights but find that they rarely charge more than once or maybe twice per game so the charge bonus is largely wasted.  Demigryphs are a good bit faster and tougher than Cold Ones and have a charge bonus from the Hornblower so perhaps they can pull off charges more reliably.  What does everyone think?

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I think the problem with Demigryph knights, and in fact most Heavy Cavalry in the game, is that they are more reliant on dealing damage over time, using their better save and wound pool to out-attrition the enemy. This is doubly so for the Demigryphs, where you'd want to put Hold The Line! on them ASAP to not only boost their attacks, but let the Talons trigger on a 5+ rather than a 6+. So I'd say Halberds.

However I've personally never used knights so this is all theory for me.

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21 hours ago, divineauthority said:

Any particular reason for bows over handgunners? I've not long started a Free Peoples army and have been thinking of a similar core of 30 guard with sword and board but then 30 handgunners instead. Slightly shorter range but can be hitting on 2's and have a rend.

There are pros and cons to both. Both have their place, the Crossbows have extra range which shouldn't be overlooked. But IMO Crossbows may make the army too static, and they're just not impressive on the move (and in most scenarios, you're likely going to need an early game move).

Handgunners are something I've been thinking about leaning more towards in the new edition. In general I don't feel as bad when I move them (because their large regiment bonus still kicks in). Just don't know if I'll muscle up and paint another 10.

11 hours ago, Kamose said:

So I have a quick question about Demigryph Knights.  I know they are not exactly superlative heavy cavalry, but they are getting cheaper.  So how do most people field them; halberd or lance?  Is the extra Damage on the charge worth it?  

I'm asking because I equipped lances on my Saurus Knights but find that they rarely charge more than once or maybe twice per game so the charge bonus is largely wasted.  Demigryphs are a good bit faster and tougher than Cold Ones and have a charge bonus from the Hornblower so perhaps they can pull off charges more reliably.  What does everyone think?

Personally I like the Lances, mainly because in a protracted combat the Knights are unlikely to be the ones doing the damage anyway. So why not go for the extra do or die on the charge. When I've use Demi's in the past, certainly the times they've been most impressive to me has been on the charge.

 

As for the new edition, I'm thinking of changing up my army. I've run double company throughout most of GHB2017 (Or well since my army has been playable at 2k points), but I'm just not sure if it's worth the investment. So I'm thinking I might change things up a bit and try out some Greatswords.

The core of the army is likely to be the following:

General on Griffon

General on Griffon

Freeguild General

30x Freeguild Guard

30x Crossbows

20x Greatsword

3x Demigryph

With the following allies options:

Ironweld: 2x Cannon, Gunmaster

Collegiate: Battlemage, Luminark (Gives me 60 points spare for a command point).

 

Likely the Ironweld initially as I have that stuff ready to go, while painting up a Luminark is a big time investment.

 

That being said, depending on scenarios that plan could change. Compared to the double company I have less drops, which does mean games like Scorched Earth would be more difficult.

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@someone2040 That's the one thing I worry about when writing a Free Peoples list, the number of units I'll have and my ability to keep the whole board in check instead of just dominating a section of it. But I've not thought of 2 griffons before so that may help.

How would you ideally plan on running that list? (Apologies, still new to Free Peoples). 3 infantry blocks and a normal general sticking together centrally and then a griffon down each flank, one supported by the demis?

Edited by divineauthority
Formatting

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So are Freeguild getting new battalions or are we stuck with slow generating command points?

Edited by Not-not-kenny
typo

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26 minutes ago, Not-not-kenny said:

So are Freeguild getting new battalions or are we stuck with slow generating command points?

Still just the regiment battalion that's inexplicably gone up in points.

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So an interesting thing happened in the FAQ for us. Possibly in relation to a question I sent them in regards to what 'Shooting twice' really means (2x attacks or shoot once and then shoot again).

They've changed Crossbowmen now so that they add 1 to the attacks characteristic of the Crossbow if the unit is more than 20 models and not within 3" of the enemy.

Note very importantly that the Crossbowmen do not have to have sat still in their previous movement phase to get this bonus. This is a huge change as it means Crossbowmen aren't super static now to get the best out of them.

Quite often in my games I had to either move my Crossbowmen first turn so they could get into the killing ground, or sit still in my deployment zone hoping the enemy would charge me to get the free shooting phase. It was super problematic in games where you had to reach out and get to objectives as the Crossbows hampered your ability to do this.

 

Who knows if it's an oversight (some of the stuff in the FAQs are... questionable and inconsistent), but for now I think Crossbowmen are big winners going into the next edition. Especially since now more than ever we need to make sure our units stick close to each other with the change in the Great Companies battle trait.

 

22 hours ago, divineauthority said:

@someone2040 That's the one thing I worry about when writing a Free Peoples list, the number of units I'll have and my ability to keep the whole board in check instead of just dominating a section of it. But I've not thought of 2 griffons before so that may help.

How would you ideally plan on running that list? (Apologies, still new to Free Peoples). 3 infantry blocks and a normal general sticking together centrally and then a griffon down each flank, one supported by the demis?

To be honest not sure yet, but I know I'm due for a change up and want to give stuff like Greatswords and Demigryphs a second chance. Previously when I ran Greatswords as a 10 man unit they tended to be relegated to objective duty which could've been done by 20 Guard better. A larger unit is certainly going to be packing more punch and will be forced to be active on the battlefield. That being said, if I start feeling the pain of not having enough units some things I can do is split up the Greatswords into 2 units, and possible split the Freeguild Guard into a 20 and a 10.

As for gameplan, sounds about right as a general thing. It'll obviously depend a lot on scenarios, which I haven't really seen the new ones yet. Scenarios will be the real X factor, and likely be the moulding factor towards shaping the list for the future.

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51 minutes ago, someone2040 said:

So an interesting thing happened in the FAQ for us. Possibly in relation to a question I sent them in regards to what 'Shooting twice' really means (2x attacks or shoot once and then shoot again).

They've changed Crossbowmen now so that they add 1 to the attacks characteristic of the Crossbow if the unit is more than 20 models and not within 3" of the enemy.

Note very importantly that the Crossbowmen do not have to have sat still in their previous movement phase to get this bonus. This is a huge change as it means Crossbowmen aren't super static now to get the best out of them.

I'd guess this is because shooting twice could target 2 different units and they didn't want it to work that way? There have been some similar changes to other units that no longer have to stand still to gain bonuses (Dwarfs I'm looking at you, especially now they can be added to Greywater Fastness) so it looks to be a shift they've decided on for the new edition. Maybe it's thrown in to try and counter the removal of shooting out of combat?

55 minutes ago, someone2040 said:

To be honest not sure yet, but I know I'm due for a change up and want to give stuff like Greatswords and Demigryphs a second chance. Previously when I ran Greatswords as a 10 man unit they tended to be relegated to objective duty which could've been done by 20 Guard better. A larger unit is certainly going to be packing more punch and will be forced to be active on the battlefield. That being said, if I start feeling the pain of not having enough units some things I can do is split up the Greatswords into 2 units, and possible split the Freeguild Guard into a 20 and a 10.

As for gameplan, sounds about right as a general thing. It'll obviously depend a lot on scenarios, which I haven't really seen the new ones yet. Scenarios will be the real X factor, and likely be the moulding factor towards shaping the list for the future.

Yeah, of course battleplans will go and ****** up the best laid plans! The one thing I do worry about for me is wanting to make the most use of the great companies rule but then being restricted to a handful of units because I've sunk points into 30/40 guard, 30 handgunners and another unit to stay together as a block.

I probably need to get out of that mentality and not worry about a couple of 10 man guard units being too weak to cap objectives or screen potential allies.

Also, the points reduction for Demigryphs could tempt me into maybe 2 units of 3 to roam around.

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Had my first game the other night, a small game of 1000 points on a 4x4 board. Fairly casual environment, I ran the following list:

Freeguild General on Griffon + Armour Meteoric Iron

Freeguild General w Stately War Banner + Indomitable

20x Freeguild Guard

2x10 Handgunners

10x Greatswords

3x Demigryph Knights

Was playing against a fairly casual Bonesplitterz list in an open war game from the Generals Handbook. Given we were both at 1000 points, we didn't have anything whacky like Endless spells flying around, so it was mainly just playing pure new core rules.

In general, I liked the way command points now work. I still really dislike that they're tied to battalions and that you can't purchase extra artefacts with them, but in terms of gameplay I found it really useful. In general, I don't see us needing to use them in the first turn unless we're expecting a charge to occur before our 2nd turn. The impact of this is, by not using a command point turn 1, we now have one in our bank to use later on.

What this meant in this game is that my Griff General got to use Rousing Battlecry on himself to give +1 to hit. Makes him that much more reliable when he needs to pull his weight doing damage. Over 2 turns my Griff General managed to kill/battleshock 10 Savage Boar Boy Maniaks.

In terms of the Great Companies, it's certainly a lot harder to use than before and you have to be super careful when you're piling in that you don't get dragged too far from your shooters. I didn't conga line mine out too far, I made sure to keep both my 10 man handgunners within range. But later on the Guard piled in a bit too far from one of my Handgunners to engage in combat, and it sadly meant one unit of Handgunners went out of range.

I think the Great Companies as a rule probably work a bit more like they're intended, but it's certainly a lot less forgiving now (and hence, worse).

Can't say much about the Demigryphs or Greatswords. The Demigryphs got surprised by Hand of Gorked Big Stabbas while the Greatswords didn't make combat until later in the game when it was really mop up duty.

 

Will be interesting how larger games go, as I'm interested to see how the larger games go with larger units. I have a few gut feelings about where the army might go in the future, but will reserve judgement until I've had a few games at larger points levels.

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After being very dissapointed with my Pestilens, I'm taking this to a tournament next weekend.

General on Griffon (dauntless, Gryph-feather)

General on Griffon

30 Sword and board

30 handgunners

30 handgunners

10 Outriders

Hurricanum (allies)

 

It's basically my 1.0 list ported over to 2.0, since none of the points for the units changed. Free people did get a severe nerf with the limit to dauntless and the Great company rules, so we'll see how it performs. 

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What’s The general vibe on the regiment battalion? Anyone had any experience with it?  

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The Battalion is just too big to be used effectively in anything below 2500 points. To use it at anything below you'd have to run MSU (Multiple Small Squads), which is not how Free Peoples want to be run, with how our allegiance abilities and unit bonuses work.

 

On an unrelated note, I'm surprised I don't see more people run the Knight Azyros in their lists. A cheap, durable, fast moving hero that now not only buffs your shooting, but melee as well (re-roll 1s). There's nothing quite like your opponent's face when you roll 30 Handgunners on 2s re-rolling 1s. The once per game mortal wound bomb is just icing on the black-powder cake.

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I have been reconsidering the Freeguild Regiment. With the points drops in the greatswords, demigryph and the battalion (more so if you consider the 50 point bonus CP) it is far more approachable. But the kicker for me is in the change to the great company rules, being wholly within favours small units. 

The battalion bonus basically swaps out the the +1 to hit for large numbers and it is a bonus that you will rarely lose. So a unit of 10 handgunners in the battalion can still get 2s to hit and wound, and they can have it down to the last man. 

I'd be looking at the following skeleton to work from. 

Allegiance: Free Peoples

Leaders
Freeguild General (100)
- Stately War Banner

Battleline
3 x Demigryph Knights (140)
- Cavalry Halberd
10 x Freeguild Greatswords (140)
20 x Freeguild Guard (160)
- Swords and Shields
20 x Freeguild Guard (160)
- Swords and Shields
10 x Freeguild Guard (80)
- Halberds and Shields
10 x Freeguild Handgunners (100)
10 x Freeguild Handgunners (100)
10 x Freeguild Handgunners (100)

Units
5 x Freeguild Outriders (130)
5 x Freeguild Pistoliers (130)

Battalions
Freeguild Regiment (210)

Total: 1550 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 127

The 20 man guard units allow for 2 great companies, formed from the sword and board, halberds and handgunners. And you use each company as a single 40 man unit, much like the Darling Covens do. I would consider swapping one unit of gunners for some archers and folding the greatswords into a company. The archers help to prevent 1st turn free summons etc. 

You still have enough room for a decent allies selection, griffon general is a no brainer (shame there is not enough room for 2), maybe some cannons, maybe some wizards. We need Mortal Wound output and spell defense, maybe a Hurricanum? It's a lot of points but it fills a few holes. 

Since my wanderers got shat on I've been looking to pick the humans back up again. And I think the battalion has merit in AoS 2.0

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3 hours ago, Origin said:

I have been reconsidering the Freeguild Regiment. With the points drops in the greatswords, demigryph and the battalion (more so if you consider the 50 point bonus CP) it is far more approachable. But the kicker for me is in the change to the great company rules, being wholly within favours small units. 

The battalion bonus basically swaps out the the +1 to hit for large numbers and it is a bonus that you will rarely lose. So a unit of 10 handgunners in the battalion can still get 2s to hit and wound, and they can have it down to the last man. 

I'd be looking at the following skeleton to work from. 

Allegiance: Free Peoples

Leaders
Freeguild General (100)
- Stately War Banner

Battleline
3 x Demigryph Knights (140)
- Cavalry Halberd
10 x Freeguild Greatswords (140)
20 x Freeguild Guard (160)
- Swords and Shields
20 x Freeguild Guard (160)
- Swords and Shields
10 x Freeguild Guard (80)
- Halberds and Shields
10 x Freeguild Handgunners (100)
10 x Freeguild Handgunners (100)
10 x Freeguild Handgunners (100)

Units
5 x Freeguild Outriders (130)
5 x Freeguild Pistoliers (130)

Battalions
Freeguild Regiment (210)

Total: 1550 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 127

The 20 man guard units allow for 2 great companies, formed from the sword and board, halberds and handgunners. And you use each company as a single 40 man unit, much like the Darling Covens do. I would consider swapping one unit of gunners for some archers and folding the greatswords into a company. The archers help to prevent 1st turn free summons etc. 

You still have enough room for a decent allies selection, griffon general is a no brainer (shame there is not enough room for 2), maybe some cannons, maybe some wizards. We need Mortal Wound output and spell defense, maybe a Hurricanum? It's a lot of points but it fills a few holes. 

Since my wanderers got shat on I've been looking to pick the humans back up again. And I think the battalion has merit in AoS 2.0

I like this! I think I’d swap out 10 gunners for 20 xbows, another general (to make both companies independent) and general on griffon.  Leaves it super vulnerable to magic though :/

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I havent played around with Great Companies in AOS 2.0, yet. Its going to be harder to get the bonuses. BUT really you dont need the Great Company to get shots in your opponents turn. With pipers you can still shoot during your opponents turn if they hit a chaff unit of yours and your ranged units are within 3. 

Might be time to revisit pre Great Company lists for greater movement flexibility and area denial. 

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10 minutes ago, SilverJelly said:

I havent played around with Great Companies in AOS 2.0, yet. Its going to be harder to get the bonuses. BUT really you dont need the Great Company to get shots in your opponents turn. With pipers you can still shoot during your opponents turn if they hit a chaff unit of yours and your ranged units are within 3. 

Might be time to revisit pre Great Company lists for greater movement flexibility and area denial. 

At the expense of shooting flexibility though- once you’re within 3 you can’t you can’t target anyone else now 

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3 minutes ago, Thalassic Monstrosity said:

Quick question - if fielded in units of 10 which is best: Archers, Crossbowmen, or Handgunners?  Without the unit size bonus I think maybe it'd be crossbowmen.

Different purposes. Crossbows no longer get the extra shot until there’s 20 of them, archers are great screens and board denial chaff, handgunners get the long rifle and rend, so damage wise probably the gunners

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On 7/7/2018 at 11:54 PM, Origin said:

I have been reconsidering the Freeguild Regiment. With the points drops in the greatswords, demigryph and the battalion (more so if you consider the 50 point bonus CP) it is far more approachable. But the kicker for me is in the change to the great company rules, being wholly within favours small units. 

The battalion bonus basically swaps out the the +1 to hit for large numbers and it is a bonus that you will rarely lose. So a unit of 10 handgunners in the battalion can still get 2s to hit and wound, and they can have it down to the last man. 

I'd be looking at the following skeleton to work from. 

Allegiance: Free Peoples

Leaders
Freeguild General (100)
- Stately War Banner

Battleline
3 x Demigryph Knights (140)
- Cavalry Halberd
10 x Freeguild Greatswords (140)
20 x Freeguild Guard (160)
- Swords and Shields
20 x Freeguild Guard (160)
- Swords and Shields
10 x Freeguild Guard (80)
- Halberds and Shields
10 x Freeguild Handgunners (100)
10 x Freeguild Handgunners (100)
10 x Freeguild Handgunners (100)

Units
5 x Freeguild Outriders (130)
5 x Freeguild Pistoliers (130)

Battalions
Freeguild Regiment (210)

Total: 1550 / 2000
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 127

The 20 man guard units allow for 2 great companies, formed from the sword and board, halberds and handgunners. And you use each company as a single 40 man unit, much like the Darling Covens do. I would consider swapping one unit of gunners for some archers and folding the greatswords into a company. The archers help to prevent 1st turn free summons etc. 

You still have enough room for a decent allies selection, griffon general is a no brainer (shame there is not enough room for 2), maybe some cannons, maybe some wizards. We need Mortal Wound output and spell defense, maybe a Hurricanum? It's a lot of points but it fills a few holes. 

Since my wanderers got shat on I've been looking to pick the humans back up again. And I think the battalion has merit in AoS 2.0

I think this is now the way I'm heading towards with the Great Company changes. Only difference for me is probably sticking with sword and board for the small Guard unit and use them to go and sit on an objective or act as a small screen for some allied artillery. Saying that, after a Griffon general to run around with the Demigryphs and other cavalry, there's only 190 points spare for something like a Battlemage and endless spell. I could be tempted to throw in a Knight Azyros for even better shooting and leave some points spare for an additional command point.

If we didn't have to take the Outriders and Pistoliers, I'd be much happier!

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1 hour ago, Creezy said:

Different purposes. Crossbows no longer get the extra shot until there’s 20 of them, archers are great screens and board denial chaff, handgunners get the long rifle and rend, so damage wise probably the gunners

Ah, I was thinking crossbowmen got the extra shot for not moving - it's hanginners with the +1 to hit. Thanks!

The free move archers get might be handy in the beginning but I agree, handgunners might be a better choice in the long run.

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Does the Hold the line prevent the units from piling in? I somehow remember that it used to be so that "pile in move" and "move"  were different things, but apparently it's not like that any more as the rules specify "move" to be any kind of move and "normal move" to be the one you do on your movement phase. Don't get me wrong, it's much clearer this way, but it does make the command ability a bit worse. 

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