AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[Black Blade]

13 hours ago, Kaleydoscope said:

Hey guys, just a crazy idea which came to my mind recently. (see attachement) 

With this list you start with 9CP and the Azyros as Scion, on each of your heroe phases you can generate up to 2 CPs on a dice roll of 4+ each. Every time you spend a command point, you can roll 2 dice and for each 5+ you generate a new CP. Of course they can be spent then and possibly generate new CPs.. Castellant and Heraldor buff Vandus to get him into combat (Vexillor and Charge reroll might help too). The phoenix guard and liberators march towards mission markers. If you get vandus in combat with multiple units, you can destroy them all by deviding your weapon attacks, each buffed through CP Shenanigans. (getting +10 on each of his weapons should be no problem, if you are lucky, you might generate more CP than you want to use) This is not a tournament concept but if you test it anyway or play it in a beer and pretzle environment - please tell me how it went ;). ©️Kaleydoscope 2018

I don't understand this list at all. You have Vandus who can only hit himself with his command ability an you have a CP factory that means nothing if he is magiced/ shot off the table? I am sorry but I do not think this looks either fun or competitive and I think those two are linked here. 

[XReN]

On 9/23/2018 at 2:34 AM, Bellfree said:

At the cost of burning 100pts for a character that is utterly worthless outside of the drops and a really, really subpar Stormhost. Gavriel may be more reliable than cogs/etc but in taking him you're committing to winning with the drop on the simple basis that you've invested 100pts, your heavy hitter unit(s), your stormhost, a CP, and your relic slot in guaranteeing one drop. You're also almost always forced to drop everything at once(if you don't bubblewrap Gavriel, he dies 100%. If you do bubble wrap Gavriel, no way are you going to get more units wholly within 12 AND in a decent position to charge.) and in the same general area. You're pigeonholing yourself into not only an INCREDIBLY predictable strategy but in a very one note build that people and armies will eventually figure out how to deal with the same way they figured out hammerstrike.

What using Cogs or w/e instead does is it trades a bit of reliability for flexibility and it also means that the army can be stronger outside of the one note 'BLAM FROM THE SKY, HOPE I WIN THIS TURN' strategy that gavriel lists tend to devolve into. Not being trapped using a largely useless stormhost(the one unit of sequitors that comes back every 3rd game on turn 4 or 5 isn't anything to write home about and the rest of the abilities are almost completely irrelevant even compared to the generic non-stormhosts ones.) is a massive benefit.

Yes, gavriel is far and away the most reliable way to get Sacrosanct units into combat turn 1, but let's not pretend that there aren't some pretty severe opportunity cost associated with packing a weak model into a weak stormhost for the sake of telegraphing exactly what your gameplan is to every person who gives your list even a casual once-over.

Why would you ever want to dedicate units for protecting gavriel?
As you mentioned, he is useless outside of the turn he delivers some melee units. Also, you seems to think that he is going to be used ONLY for evocators which is far from reality, I've won many games by tying up most of my opponents army with vanguard wing and I'm going to make my opponent choke on 20 sequitors whille I'm the one racking victory points. It also can be just him and 5 evocators, that is less than celestant prime, still deals a lot of damage, not going to handicap me if I wait for turn 2 or 3 and will get a guaranteed good charge because if my opponent is sitting in his deployment zone scarred to push on the objectives - that worth every single point and semi usefull artefact and lefts me with 1700 point for flexibility.

Also the all-mighty cogs... As far as it goes you usually give your opponent a bigger favor by casting them and setting the for speed than you do yourself. I've won the game of Coallition of Death because my opponents casted cogs for us. So Me and my teammates got Orruk Megaboss, 2 units of brutes, 3 gore gruntas (with long charge bonus), 5 scioned retributors and 2 magmadrots into melee for the price of 30 vulkite berserkers that were slain 1st turn by two armies of undead, so we got our charges, inflicted a lot of casualties, got double turn and turned something that looked like a really bad position (we lost our most durable unit 1st turn against Legion of Blood, Legion of Nagash and Seraphon in 1000 points per player battle) into crushing victory with with score 18 to 12 in our favor and half of opponents frontline and support heroes dead by the end of turn 2. 

You are also overlooking the possibility of footslogging Gav with whatever hard hitters and he will be safe and will do his job as good as heraldor/translocation+cogs

Edited September 24, 2018 by XReN

[TheManiac]

Hey everyone, new to the whole AoS game, got started buy getting 2 Soul Wars SCE collections, and was kinda thinking if this is a viable army to expand to:

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
Lord-Arcanum on Gryph-Charger (240)
- General
- Celestial Staves (Artefact): Staff of Azyr
- Spell: Chain Lightning
- Mount Trait: Aethereal Stalker
Knight-Incantor (140)
- Spell: Azyrite Halo
Knight-Incantor (140)
- Spell: Thundershock
10 x Sequitors (240)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
- 5x Stormsmite Greatmaces
10 x Sequitors (240)
- Tempest Blades and Soulshields
- 5x Stormsmite Greatmaces
5 x Sequitors (120)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
- 3x Stormsmite Greatmaces
5 x Evocators (200)
- Lore of Invigoration: Celestial Blades
5 x Evocators (200)
- Lore of Invigoration: Speed of Lightning
Celestar Ballista (100)
Celestar Ballista (100)
Celestar Ballista (100)
Cleansing Phalanx (120)

Total: 1940 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 118
 

And then either 3 Aetherwings to grab fast objectives or maybe an Endless spell.

Is this a reasonable list that could work or am I way out there with this line of thought?

[XReN]

40 minutes ago, TheManiac said:

And then either 3 Aetherwings to grab fast objectives or maybe an Endless spell.

Is this a reasonable list that could work or am I way out there with this line of thought?

Welcome! 
It all depends on how competetive you want to be, really.
Because for casual games with friends this list will work just fine, maybe even too powerfull against some armies that aren't considered strong.

[GlanceOnASix]

Played a game this weekend with:
Ignax Stardrake
LAoGC
Castallent
Lord Ordinator

10 Libs
5 Libs
5 Judicators

4x Ballistas

1x everblaze comet

Played against a really tough blight cyst with: GUO, 2x10 BKings, 2x5 BKings, 5++ Aura guy, and wizard, and the throwing heads hero and COGS.

I was given the second turn as with all his movement stuff he had his whole army on the 24 inch line top of 1.  The 10 libs +Ord + Ballistas drop outta the sky, the 10 libs form a line in staunch range with where the dragon ended up holding 10 blight kings (And eating the 3 command models).

Ballistas took 13 wounds off the GUO (which he healed 7 back). Meteor and Dragonstarfall knocked most his heroes down 2-3 wounds each.

I got the double, got all 3 of his heroes to 1 wounds, took off the GUO, and held the center with the line of libs (One protected a turn due to the LAoGC).  The remaining 4 of the first 10 man retreat from the dragon, He charged the full strength 10 man into the lib wall keeping the dragon outta 3, but caught the LAoGC.  I used my spirit flask and took out 2 blight kings of the 10 with a decent roll.  (And knocked a few wounds off nearby ballistas).

His one 5 man having been shot by Judicators and my one 5 man libs knocking it down to 3, still whoop on the Libs bringing them down to 1 model on the right objective, while my griff hound was getting in the way of the 5 man on my other flank (Just to make it hard for them to move around it to better targets).

We rolled for T3 and I won as well, and it turned into cleanup, got rid of the heroes, focused the ballistas on the 7 blighking unit in the middle, and the dragon went and ate a 5 man.


TLDNR:

• Ballistas are really spiky, some rolls they were amazing, and some all 4 missed or rolled 1's for number of shots.
• Libs dont put out anything like Sequitors as far as offence for a similar defence.
• I think my Judicators appreciated being build because they were killing a blight king a turn.
• The comet was not SUPER great against nurgle (as I was expecting having played the matchup before) however I can see some other armies where it just mauls units that dont have mortal wound saves.
• The dragon is so freaken strong It makes me think about not taking Gav Evocator bombs, nothing in the Gav list takes the whooping he can, never took more than 2 wounds the entire game without healing them back up.  Eating models to split units, the raw 'holding power'/board position, and the 'poke' of the mortal wound starfall was crucial to what I thought was a pretty bad match-up.

 

Well guys hope it was a good read, give another update as I play more games.

 

Edited September 24, 2018 by GlanceOnASix

[XReN]

6 minutes ago, GlanceOnASix said:

Played a game this weekend with:
Ignax Stardrake
LAoGC
Castallent
Lord Ordinator

10 Libs
5 Libs
5 Judicators

4x Ballistas

1x everblaze comet

Played against a really tough blight cyst with: GUO, 2x10 BKings, 2x5 BKings, 5++ Aura guy, and wizard, and the throwing heads hero and COGS.

I was given the second turn as with all his movement stuff he had his whole army on the 24 inch line top of 1.  The 10 libs +Ord + Ballistas drop outta the sky, the 10 libs form a line in staunch range with where the dragon ended up holding 10 blight kings (And eating the 3 command models).

Ballistas took 13 wounds off the GUO (which he healed 7 back). Meteor and Dragonstarfall knocked most his heroes down 2-3 wounds each.

I got the double, got all 3 of his heroes to 1 wounds, took off the GUO, and held the center with the line of libs (One protected a turn due to the LAoGC).  The remaining 4 of the first 10 man retreat from the dragon, He charged the full strength 10 man into the lib wall keeping the dragon outta 3, but caught the LAoGC.  I used my spirit flask and took out 2 blight kings of the 10 with a decent roll.  (And knocked a few wounds off nearby ballistas).

His one 5 man having been shot by Judicators and my one 5 man libs knocking it down to 3, still whoop on the Libs bringing them down to 1 model on the right objective, while my griff hound was getting in the way of the 5 man on my other flank (Just to make it hard for them to move around it to better targets).

We rolled for T3 and I won as well, and it turned into cleanup, got rid of the heroes, focused the ballistas on the 7 blighking unit in the middle, and the dragon went and ate a 5 man.


TLDNR:
Ballistas are really spiky, some rolls they were amazing, and some all 4 missed or rolled 1's for number of shots.
Libs dont put out anything like Sequitors as far as offence for a similar defence.
I think my Judicators appreciated being build because they were killing a blight king a turn.
The comet was not SUPER great against nurgle (as I was expecting having played the matchup before) however I can see some other armies where it just mauls units that dont have mortal wound saves.
The dragon is so freaken strong It makes me think about not taking Gav Evocator bombs, nothing in the Gav list takes the whooping he can, never took more than 2 wounds the entire game without healing them back up.  Eating models to split units, the raw 'holding power'/board position, and the 'poke' of the mortal wound starfall was crucial to what I thought was a pretty bad match-up.

 

Well guys hope it was a good read, give another update as I play more games.

 

If you used scions on 6 units, whille having 5 on the table - you cheated
Otherwise it's great to hear that you got a victory after getting alpha striked and with such a low body count

Edited September 24, 2018 by XReN

[GlanceOnASix]

10 minutes ago, XReN said:

If you used scions on 6 units, whille having 5 on the table - you cheated
...

1: Dragon
2: LAoGC
3: Castallent
4: Castallents Dog
5: 5x Libs
6: 5x Judicators

6 and 6, built it to be just enough.

Edited September 24, 2018 by GlanceOnASix

[XReN]

Just now, GlanceOnASix said:

1: Dragon
2: LAoGC
3: Castallent
4: Castallents Dog
5: 5x Libs
6: 5x Judicators

6 and 6, built it to be just enough.

Oh, alright, forgot the dog

[TheManiac]

@XReNWell want it to be at least decently competative, but I mean, I can always complement the list a bit if it is just kinda bad, but can you make a decently competative list with what I have or is there a lot of changes needed to make it happen?

[XReN]

6 minutes ago, TheManiac said:

@XReNWell want it to be at least decently competative, but I mean, I can always complement the list a bit if it is just kinda bad, but can you make a decently competative list with what I have or is there a lot of changes needed to make it happen?

Absolutely, most decent choices will be Castellant (basicly he is must-have) Judicators with bows as third battleline, pushing one unit of evocators up to 10 or just dropping phalanx and reshuffling everything a bit. Howhever 20 sequitors are somewhat unvieldy, probably a choice that worth trying.
So maybe something like
LAoGC
Incantor
Castellant
20 or 10 sequitors
5 or 10 sequitors
5 judicators
10 evocators

And then whatever you feel like adding

 

Edited September 24, 2018 by XReN

[XReN]

24 minutes ago, TheManiac said:

@XReNWell want it to be at least decently competative, but I mean, I can always complement the list a bit if it is just kinda bad, but can you make a decently competative list with what I have or is there a lot of changes needed to make it happen?

Also check out Black Blade's topic on SCE magic if you haven't done it yet, I've found it very informative, since I'm somewhat slow to paint all the new goodies and still haven't played new chamber

Edited September 24, 2018 by XReN

[PJetski]

Has anyone found a 3rd party retailer that makes evocator + female stormcast shoulderpads? I really don't want to use the hammer symbols.

[kenshin620]

42 minutes ago, PJetski said:

Has anyone found a 3rd party retailer that makes Age of Sigmar parts/models.

Sadly fixed that for you. 3rd party Age of Sigmar bitz are basically nonexistent. Especially since many of these companies are focusing on 9th age proxies.

Despite being pushed by gw as fantasy space marines, stormcast haven't convinced the bitz makers yet that theres a market.

[Mark Williams]

The “free” gryph hound counts as a second deployment for putting another unit in scions? That seems fishy.

[rattila]

Has anyone already tested the evocator on dracoline? They are damn expensive (100pts/mini) but are they worth it?

 

They seems killy (even if no rend or almost) but is 5 wound and 4+ not too low for a 100pt model?

[Mark Williams]

28 minutes ago, rattila said:

Has anyone already tested the evocator on dracoline? They are damn expensive (100pts/mini) but are they worth it?

 

They seems killy (even if no rend or almost) but is 5 wound and 4+ not too low for a 100pt model?

I regularly play against someone who runs 6-12 dracolines. On the whole he gets very good results, but the army's entire strategy is just "run forward and attack". It does great until it hits something stronger, then it just folds like paper. He's got a very good win record, but we both agree that the army is very small, and is weak to horde. The dracolines are expensive, and it's difficult to hold and capture objectives with them as a result. The best thing about them is that they allow you to expand your army's reach, as well as it's reaction distance. You can spread your army out more and still hit a small area with focused attacks. I've found that with a balanced list (shooting + assault), I'm generally able to table him.... both of us have spoken at length about the conundrum being that in almost every case that you can think to bring a unit of dracolines, normal evocators are a bit stronger and cheaper, with mobility being the only drawback, which if you play well isn't a drawback at all.

Short answer - they are good, just not great due to the fact that they directly compete with normal evocators.

[Requizen]

They for sure are not a subtle unit. Their speed gives them some finesse, but for the most part they just want to run in and hit things, which they're fairly good at. They could probably stand to come down in points, at least a bit. 

[Freejack02]

3 hours ago, Mark Williams said:

The “free” gryph hound counts as a second deployment for putting another unit in scions? That seems fishy.

What about that seems fishy? It's an independent unit that's deployed on the field... just because the deployment timing is unique doesn't make it invalid.

[Mark Williams]

47 minutes ago, Freejack02 said:

What about that seems fishy? It's an independent unit that's deployed on the field... just because the deployment timing is unique doesn't make it invalid.

I can't think of a reason why it would be invalid. It just seems fishy to me because it's a unique situation that didn't seem intended when making the scions rules. It feels like trying to get around the limitations of scions, which exist for balancing purposes. If there's no FAQ against it, there's nothing stopping it I guess. I just would like to ask a designer if it's meant to be played that way.

[Figoios]

I read that many of you are using the gavbomb list. How do you deal usually with small units preventig you to charge opponent's Key units? 

I find them very annoying (e.g. units of 10 bloodreaver or 10 skinks ecc.) And i was thinking to put one or two Vanguard raptors Hurricane units to destroy them before gavriel drop. 

 P.s. Sorry if i made mistakes but english Is not my first language. 

[Mark Williams]

10 minutes ago, Figoios said:

I read that many of you are using the gavbomb list. How do you deal usually with small units preventig you to charge opponent's Key units? 

I find them very annoying (e.g. units of 10 bloodreaver or 10 skinks ecc.) And i was thinking to put one or two Vanguard raptors Hurricane units to destroy them before gavriel drop. 

 P.s. Sorry if i made mistakes but english Is not my first language. 

If your opponent is turtling his army, then you don't bring the gav unit out and just move your smaller units forward and fight with those. At some point, either their formation will break up, or you drop your gav unit behind your own units, and set them up to counter-charge your opponent.

Short answer - it's okay to set up behind your own screen, rather than trying to land and charge. That's playing a tactical game, and it's okay for you and your opponent to be strategic. That's a good balance imo.

As for taking out screens early, I'd prefer to use ballistas to do that, but raptors would work too.

[Zayneth]

hey everyone I figured this was the place to check but 99 pages is a lot to read through...

is there a way for Liberators to get rerolls on their to hit rolls? trying to use some as supplemental battle line but the models I have available come with the hammers. 4+ to hit isn't the best thing in the world lol!

and yes I will have sequitors and evokers etc etc but I am building 2 small squads to help fill my BL requirements before going crazy with the new Gucci models =)

[Mark Williams]

20 minutes ago, Zayneth said:

hey everyone I figured this was the place to check but 99 pages is a lot to read through...

is there a way for Liberators to get rerolls on their to hit rolls? trying to use some as supplemental battle line but the models I have available come with the hammers. 4+ to hit isn't the best thing in the world lol!

and yes I will have sequitors and evokers etc etc but I am building 2 small squads to help fill my BL requirements before going crazy with the new Gucci models ?

Lord Celestant on foot CA gives +1 to hit and a knight azyros gives reroll 1s. That will simulate what you are trying to do. Wizards can also cast bless weapons, but that’s probably a waste of a wizard imo.

[XReN]

12 hours ago, PJetski said:

Has anyone found a 3rd party retailer that makes evocator + female stormcast shoulderpads? I really don't want to use the hammer symbols.

Man, if you find anything, for god sake tell us about it!
I tried to make some myself with blue stuff and putty but it all failed on the last step - casting copies of it, the blue stuff misplaced every single time I tried to make a copy (I managed to roughly transfer Knights Excelsior symbol on shoulder pad with hammer symbol removed) 

Edited September 25, 2018 by XReN

[PJetski]

Re: Dracolines

The best way I found to use them is a fast hard-hitting anvil of 6 models. Toss them into the enemy army after giving them rerollable saves (cogs) +1 save (Lantern) & Staunch Defender LADrac with Staunch Defender. Keep a LAGC nearby for healing and Cycle. With two Cycle of the Storm, 5 wounds per model, and a 2+ rerollable save they tend to live for at least two turns. With Celestial Blades, Pride Leader, and Empower they do good enough damage that your opponent can't ignore them.

While your enemy is dealing with the Dracolines you shoot them down with the ballista core (4 ballistas + ordinator + azyros).

It's not the best list, but I think it's the best way to use Dracolines. At 300pt per squad I find them to be inefficient after 6 models.