AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[Lexalopolis]

13 hours ago, Bellfree said:

It's okay, but honestly not that big of a deal. Anything with any kind of speed is going to close you down pretty quick and between the buff heroes and the unit you're looking at almost half of your army invested in one unit, not to mention all of your command points. The unit will do about 20 wounds per turn(slightly more with the azyros reroll) across both shots to a 4+ save. I think with all the knighthaunts and TPs bouncing around it'll be very risky.

Solid feedback, thanks! Might be worth trying in some practice games with friends. I feel that longstrikes are probably best if the list is built around them, whereas the other ranged options work pretty solidly even if they are just plugged into a list.

What have people's thoughts been on a ranged mortal wound based list? With all the new spells and the comet it seems like Stormcast have some solid options If you wanted to go a different route than a Gavriel bomb.

Edited August 11, 2018 by Lexalopolis

[kenshin620]

BTW I admit I'm not too much on top of SCE lore as many of you but I'm wondering if SCE "Initiates/Space Marine Scouts" are a thing?

While I guess technically SCE are the equivalent of angels/Valkyries/reborn holy warriors, seems a little weird to hand them huge heavy plate armor and big huge weapons without some "proving" training (obviously I know they train before they get into war, but they immediately go from 0 to 60).

 

Do you think "cheap" SCE units may be a thing as a "more bodies but less power" battleline filler? Granted Space Marine Scouts, the inspiration I'm taking, are still pretty darn elite especially handy with some sniper rifles.

[Black Blade]

7 hours ago, DanielFM said:

Who did it though? It seems extremely reasonable. Skullreapers at 170 laugh at Retributors at 220 all day long.

Oh it was on Reddit, I dont mean to imply it happened on TGA. Good call out on the Skullreapers too, they are one of my favorite units and a good comparison point for Retributors.

[Black Blade]

23 hours ago, kenshin620 said:

BTW I admit I'm not too much on top of SCE lore as many of you but I'm wondering if SCE "Initiates/Space Marine Scouts" are a thing?

While I guess technically SCE are the equivalent of angels/Valkyries/reborn holy warriors, seems a little weird to hand them huge heavy plate armor and big huge weapons without some "proving" training (obviously I know they train before they get into war, but they immediately go from 0 to 60).

 

Do you think "cheap" SCE units may be a thing as a "more bodies but less power" battleline filler? Granted Space Marine Scouts, the inspiration I'm taking, are still pretty darn elite especially handy with some sniper rifles.

I don't think neophyte Stormcast would make sense because they are normally experienced and skilled by the time they are chosen. Also their enhancements don't need a maturation period, they are granted a portion of the God King's power and the reforging wraps it all up. They do train in a special Coliseum but like I said they mostly come pre-trained and capable. They also already have scout-like units in the Vanguard chambers. If they want a horde unit they can ally in Freeguild.

Edited August 12, 2018 by Black Blade

[Freejack02]

1 hour ago, kenshin620 said:

Do you think "cheap" SCE units may be a thing as a "more bodies but less power" battleline filler? Granted Space Marine Scouts, the inspiration I'm taking, are still pretty darn elite especially handy with some sniper rifles.

I can't imagine the uproar if SCE were to get cheap horde units; currently the only thing they lack

Personally, it would be nice to have a lightly armored/cheaper unit type... but I think not having one is the price we pay for such wonderful selection and flexibility as a faction. 

[kenshin620]

3 minutes ago, Freejack02 said:

I can't imagine the uproar if SCE were to get cheap horde units; currently the only thing they lack

Personally, it would be nice to have a lightly armored/cheaper unit type... but I think not having one is the price we pay for such wonderful selection and flexibility as a faction. 

Well yea I don't mean hordes! But a step below liberator or something.

[Richelieu]

6 hours ago, schwabbele said:

Maybe I need to get used to that  But my Prime and 5 Sequitors were also the only ones to live 

You definitely need to get used to that.  The game is about objectives, end of story.  I rarely kill more points than my opponents because I play a pure objective game.  Which is one of the reasons I think kill points are a poor tie breaker in tournaments.  Why should defensive lists be at an inherent disadvantage to offensive ones.  Makes no sense. 

[Freejack02]

13 minutes ago, Richelieu said:

You definitely need to get used to that.  The game is about objectives, end of story.  I rarely kill more points than my opponents because I play a pure objective game.  Which is one of the reasons I think kill points are a poor tie breaker in tournaments.  Why should defensive lists be at an inherent disadvantage to offensive ones.  Makes no sense. 

Would you prefer total points scored? What are some other alternatives?

[Black Blade]

1 hour ago, Freejack02 said:

Would you prefer total points scored? What are some other alternatives?

I think most people use sports scores, in other words who was the best opponent enjoyment wise. 

[DanielFM]

Let's chat: Blessed Weapons 

What do you think is the best target for this prayer?

I think Hurricane Raptors are good contenders. You get on average 4.5 extra hits: that's an extra Raptor worth of hits!

Evocators on Dracoline aren't a bad choice either: when buffed they can be 8 attacks a model, for a total of 24 - giving 4 extra hits which will likely reroll wounds and 2 of them with 1d3 damage.

[Freejack02]

32 minutes ago, DanielFM said:

Let's chat: Blessed Weapons 

What do you think is the best target for this prayer?

I think Hurricane Raptors are good contenders. You get on average 4.5 extra hits: that's an extra Raptor worth of hits!

Evocators on Dracoline aren't a bad choice either: when buffed they can be 8 attacks a model, for a total of 24 - giving 4 extra hits which will likely reroll wounds and 2 of them with 1d3 damage.

Seeing as it's now activated on an unmodifed hit roll of 6, it will increase everything's output nearly proportionally - so whatever the best offensive unit you are currently fielding. Reroll hits is attractive (Sequitors), seeing as that's pretty much the only buff that can improve it - so likelly 20 Sequitors. Evocators have great offense overall, but a fair bit of that comes from the Celestial Lightning (which Bless Weapons does nothing for). Hurricane Raptors would get a lot of extra attacks in on average, but they're bad attacks in the end. I'm personally going to shy away from using it solely because it's the only prayer that's still activated on a 4+ instead of a 3+, and that's silly... Translocation is still much more powerful. 

[Roark]

1 hour ago, DanielFM said:

Let's chat: Blessed Weapons 

What do you think is the best target for this prayer?

I think Hurricane Raptors are good contenders. You get on average 4.5 extra hits: that's an extra Raptor worth of hits!

Evocators on Dracoline aren't a bad choice either: when buffed they can be 8 attacks a model, for a total of 24 - giving 4 extra hits which will likely reroll wounds and 2 of them with 1d3 damage.

Yeah, really I like Hurricanes and Celestial Vindicators Sequitors for this one (Protectors do a fun "super-explode" on the right target, but it's not the most efficient usage).

[Ben]

Is anyone playing lists using only the new chamber? 

[JackStreicher]

Biggest issue imo is the ballista for 100. it should at least go up 40 to 60 points.

[robinlvalentine]

1 hour ago, Ben said:

Is anyone playing lists using only the new chamber? 

I'm currently restricting myself to a Sacrosanct-only army, yeah. Doesn't seem like much of a disadvantage so far, to be honest, though maybe mobility is an issue. 

[GeneralZero]

1 hour ago, JackStreicher said:

Biggest issue imo is the ballista for 100. it should at least go up 40 to 60 points.

No. Just no.

[JackStreicher]

31 minutes ago, GeneralZero said:

No. Just no.

And why? A single ballista is better than 5 judicators which cost 160 pts. Combined with a Lord Ordinator those things shred one unit of 20 every turn.

[DanielFM]

45 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

And why? A single ballista is better than 5 judicators which cost 160 pts. Combined with a Lord Ordinator those things shred one unit of 20 every turn.

It's better than them only within 18". It's also extremely swingy and unreliable (1d6 hits can be great or poor).

The Lord Ordinator is hugely overpriced and pays through the nose to make Ballistas better.

[JackStreicher]

21 minutes ago, DanielFM said:

It's better than them only within 18". It's also extremely swingy and unreliable (1d6 hits can be great or poor).

The Lord Ordinator is hugely overpriced and pays through the nose to make Ballistas better.

1D6 Hits per hit is Never poor, especially with rend -2. the 18“ are never an issue just screen them, lean back and keep oneshotting.

the lord ordinator is fine for the immense buff he provides for artillery heavy lists. He should be renamed into rallynator though.

the 40pts ‚overpricing‘ Split by 3 ballistas makes a ballista 113 pts which is still WAY too cheap. It‘s too much firepower for too few points.

using the ordinator on 3 ballistas would make each score 2 hits at 18“ which would result 3*7 = 21* 4/6 = 14 wounds at -2 so don‘t even try to defend this undercosting.

 

Edited August 12, 2018 by JackStreicher

[GeneralZero]

The balista usage is extremly restrictive and doesn't allow a versatility needed for all the scenarii. It is deadly when placed and the oponent is in range. After a charge, no more balista.

[JackStreicher]

23 minutes ago, GeneralZero said:

The balista usage is extremly restrictive and doesn't allow a versatility needed for all the scenarii. It is deadly when placed and the oponent is in range. After a charge, no more balista.

And that‘s Different with archers? Don‘t let them be charged. No unit offers all the versatility you need for all scenarios.

the ballistas Deal about 11 wounds to a 4+ save, while archers for the same cost do about 5. Additionally you can thunder/teleport your ballista Batterie where you need them.

srsly trying to talk this artillery down is nonsense. It‘s way undercostet, period.

Edited August 12, 2018 by JackStreicher

[Gottkaiser]

16 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

And that‘s Different with archers? Don‘t let them be charged. No unit offers all the versatility you need for all scenarios.

the ballistas Deal about 11 wounds to a 4+ save, while archers for the same cost do about 5. Additionally you can thunder/teleport your ballista Batterie where you need them.

srsly trying to talk this artillery down is nonsense. It‘s way undercostet, period.

You may think it's undercosted, alright, but please keep the numbers right for your argument.

4 Ballista shots with an ordinator mak 2 hits, turning into 7 hits, making 4.67 wound, killing about 4 models with 1wound/4+ save. If you add in the battleshock test, at bravery 6 there will be another 1.5 dead. So the number is HALF of the one you proclaim.

If your numbers refer to 3 Ballistas + Ordinator like earlier on, then please compare the points you are spending with any other unit for 440 points an look if they are capable of doing as much damage. There are so many cases where this is true, so the ballista isn't really off scale.

Is the Ballista a good unit? Yes it is, is it so broken the points must be fixed? Imvao no.

[Black Blade]

2 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

And that‘s Different with archers? Don‘t let them be charged. No unit offers all the versatility you need for all scenarios.

the ballistas Deal about 11 wounds to a 4+ save, while archers for the same cost do about 5. Additionally you can thunder/teleport your ballista Batterie where you need them.

srsly trying to talk this artillery down is nonsense. It‘s way undercostet, period.

I'm glad you like the Ballista but Judicators aren't a proper comparison IMHO. They fulfill different roles on the board and in your list. Battleline status cannot be ignored and neither can a 24" accurate range, snipping characters and elites vs hordes.

[Freejack02]

5 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

And why? A single ballista is better than 5 judicators which cost 160 pts. Combined with a Lord Ordinator those things shred one unit of 20 every turn.

Do you mean it shreds one unit of 20 models? Have you even done the math? Where on earth are you getting these numbers?

The ballista is effective for it's points, but it does not need a large price increase. The comparison to Judicators isn't genuine - you need to factor in the cost of battleline tag, more range, more wounds, and being 5 models vs 1 for the purpose of capturing/holding objectives. 

Edited August 12, 2018 by Freejack02

[Mark Williams]

I use ballistas and xbow judicators in a scions formation. The ballistas by themselves can be good, but their average is about the same or worse than the juds most of the time. Once in a blue moon, the ballista will score 3 hits, comvert to 10ish, and shred something. Most od the time, it does about 3 wounds, sometimes none. The juds actually consistently do better with their special weapon factored in. Plus they are a bit more hardy, and can hold objectives better. If I could afford them, I’d just take both, of course, and that would solve the debate. Lol.

Edited August 12, 2018 by Mark Williams