Barnie25 Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 During the end of last year I picked up a number of Vanguard units. Is a vanguard themed army playable for regular games. I thought about adding a few ballistas and castigators to complement my raptors. Is it me or are vanguard hunters for 120 points still ******? It's sad that those are the only battleline units I currently have. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 Great discussion on the shooting armies guys, thanks for humoring me - it looks almost plausible...! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledha Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Barnie25 said: During the end of last year I picked up a number of Vanguard units. Is a vanguard themed army playable for regular games. I thought about adding a few ballistas and castigators to complement my raptors. Is it me or are vanguard hunters for 120 points still ******? It's sad that those are the only battleline units I currently have. Sadly, the only battalion worth it with vanguard, the Neave Shadowhammer battalion, doesn't exist anymore. However, for 120 pts now, the Vanguard are good. The -1 to hit them after they come mean they can actually charge something and not being killed right away. They can come from the flank, but as well everywhere on the table (since they just have the scion of the storm trait with more options), giving them lot of tactical flexbility. There is several battleplans where the objectives are 6" of the board, meaning they can teleport and take those right away. The weakness of the vanguard chamber was shooting army that could just out-shoot you out of the board. Against melee armies, it become easier for the Vanguard to play the whac-a-mole game. The palladors are better, as well as the aquilor. The vanguard-hunter with hurricane are quite good at 140, but i'm not a fan of the longstrike. 180 pts for 3 shots that still have a -1 to hit to snipe characters ? (the only thing they were good at) Meh. Neaeve is better too. Her ability to come with the pallador has been massively improved, and the new look out sir ! rules make it harder to shoot her out of the board. She is a very good DISTRACTION CARNIFEX, because she will slaughter every hero (except big things like a greater demon) she come across. 8 attacks 3+/3+/-1/2 is not something you like to take in the face. The azyros is very good now, too, as well as the vexxilior (you really want his reroll charge). I don't think it's as good as a sacrocanct chamber, but i think vanguard chamber is in a better place now than before Edited August 7, 2018 by ledha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Williams Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 1 hour ago, schwabbele said: @Mark Williams when you scion the raptors in does the +3 to attacks apply? Technically they didnt move ? Yes, it’s covered in the core rules under reserves. Scions units are considered arriving on the board via a reserve setup. They count as having moved only in that they cannot move in the movement phase, but it’s clearly a “set up” move and not an actual move. I waited for the FAQ to hit before I started using it that way, as I had doubts, but if anything the FAQs support it and add even more evidence that it’s exactly how it should work. I would say that it is “unfair or overpowered” except that it’s literally the only thing that gives me a flying duck of a chance against most of the armies I’ve been facing lately. I don’t know what else I’m meant to do with stormcast other than “play a better army”, if I can’t play this current strategy I’m doing. I sure as heck can’t win in assault with armies like DoK, Death, and Nurgle dominating the meta right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 1 hour ago, ledha said: Sadly, the only battalion worth it with vanguard, the Neave Shadowhammer battalion, doesn't exist anymore. Yes it does - points are in the new GHB. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roark Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 2 hours ago, Mark Williams said: I would say that it is “unfair or overpowered” except that it’s literally the only thing that gives me a flying duck of a chance against most of the armies I’ve been facing lately. I don't think it's controversial. They didn't move in the movement phase. Go for gold mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledha Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 1 hour ago, AdamR said: Yes it does - points are in the new GHB. what ? didn't found it in the Stormcast battletome. Why did they made a different entry in the ghb ? Anyway, with the gryph charger making mortal wound on a unmodified roll of 6, i even wonder if this battalion is worth it anymore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceytrixx Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 5 minutes ago, ledha said: what ? didn't found it in the Stormcast battletome. Why did they made a different entry in the ghb ? Anyway, with the gryph charger making mortal wound on a unmodified roll of 6, i even wonder if this battalion is worth it anymore Maybe it's becuse it's in the blightwar book and that boxed set is still available? Although that doesn't stop them reprinting it in the current battletome I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 Warrior Brotherhood and Skyborne Slayers are both still current also, despite not being it the Battletome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledha Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 3 minutes ago, AdamR said: Warrior Brotherhood and Skyborne Slayers are both still current also, despite not being it the Battletome. They actually are in it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 I meant the Warscrolls! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roark Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 I'm new to Stormcast, and this thread/community, but really impressed with the acuity, analysis and attitude of the vets. Also very impressed by the army's versatility and quality. Really easy to build and deploy a list that enjoys 3+ or better, and/or dishes out heaps of mortal wounds at range (and spells and effects with infinite range!). I've got the models for, and have started assembling, this list. Hoping to take it to the biggest Aussie tournament in January. Any criticisms welcome of course: Allegiance: Stormcast EternalsLord-Arcanum on Gryph-Charger (240)- General- Trait: Staunch Defender - Spell: Chain LightningKnight-Incantor (140)- Celestial Staves (Artefact): Staff of Focus- Spell: StormcallerKnight-Heraldor (100)10 x Sequitors (240)- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields- 5x Stormsmite Greatmaces5 x Sequitors (120)- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields- 3x Stormsmite Greatmaces5 x Sequitors (120)- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields- 3x Stormsmite Greatmaces10 x Evocators (400)- 5x Grandstaves- Lore of Invigoration: Speed of Lightning2 x Fulminators (240)Celestar Ballista (100)Celestar Ballista (100)Celestar Ballista (100)Everblaze Comet (100)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 118 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Namelessone81 Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 Question : if lord arkanum do his command ability at my evocators (the free empower) can they cast a spell ? Possible celestial blades ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 17 minutes ago, Namelessone81 said: Question : if lord arkanum do his command ability at my evocators (the free empower) can they cast a spell ? Possible celestial blades ? AFAIK It just lets them cast the spell without having to roll, there's no mention of them getting a second cast. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamR Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 23 minutes ago, Roark said: I'm new to Stormcast, and this thread/community, but really impressed with the acuity, analysis and attitude of the vets. Also very impressed by the army's versatility and quality. Really easy to build and deploy a list that enjoys 3+ or better, and/or dishes out heaps of mortal wounds at range (and spells and effects with infinite range!). I've got the models for, and have started assembling, this list. Hoping to take it to the biggest Aussie tournament in January. Any criticisms welcome of course: Allegiance: Stormcast EternalsLord-Arcanum on Gryph-Charger (240)- General- Trait: Staunch Defender - Spell: Chain LightningKnight-Incantor (140)- Celestial Staves (Artefact): Staff of Focus- Spell: StormcallerKnight-Heraldor (100)10 x Sequitors (240)- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields- 5x Stormsmite Greatmaces5 x Sequitors (120)- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields- 3x Stormsmite Greatmaces5 x Sequitors (120)- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields- 3x Stormsmite Greatmaces10 x Evocators (400)- 5x Grandstaves- Lore of Invigoration: Speed of Lightning2 x Fulminators (240)Celestar Ballista (100)Celestar Ballista (100)Celestar Ballista (100)Everblaze Comet (100)Total: 2000 / 2000Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 118 I'd be tempted to try and fit in a Castellant to buff your big Evocator blob, but that would probably cost you a ballista. Also, I've used the comet in a few games now, and if my opponent has a lot of support heroes close together its really good, but otherwise it doesn't actually seem that amazing - ooh I've killed 2 skinks, yaaaaaay! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wanderer Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 Second attempt at a 2k list for a tournament next month, thinking: Astreia Solbright -General -Keen Clawed Gavriel Sureheart Sequitors x10 - Prime, Greatmace -Greatmace x5 -Maul x5 Sequitors x10 - Prime, Greatmace -Greatmace x5 -Maul x5 Sequitors x10 - Prime, Greatmace -Greatmace x5 -Maul x5 Celestar Ballista Celestar Ballista Celestar Ballista Evocators x15 - Prime -Tempest Blade and Stormstave x8 -Grandstave x7 1940/2000 1 command point 138 wounds I could alternatively switch one Ballista for a Lord Castellant to try and increase the durability of my battle-line. I can switch between alpha-striking the Evocators and a unit of Sequitors depending on the opponent. Will probably also keep the ballista in reserve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJetski Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 Anyone else really annoyed that they haven't released new stormhost upgrade sprues for the Sacrosanct chamber? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Requizen Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 8 hours ago, aceytrixx said: Speaking of shooting lists I've been trying to think to a way to get Castigators to do work since I was really looking forward to them but they are a bit underwhelming and this was what I was thinking about Lord Aquilor 200 Knight Azyros 100 Knight Incantor 140 5 Vanguard Hunters 120 5 Vanguard Hunters 120 5 Judicators 160 12 Castigators 320 12 Castigators 320 Celestar Ballista 100 Celestar Ballista 100 Celestar Ballista 100 Celestar Ballista 100 Soulstrike brotherhood 120 Not a bad idea, but keep in mind the 50/50 Scions rule, so you would not be able to drop all the Ballistas and Castigators (and potential Ordinator) and maybe Azyros at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bradipo322 Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 52 minutes ago, PJetski said: Anyone else really annoyed that they haven't released new stormhost upgrade sprues for the Sacrosanct chamber? There are two possibilities here: We have to wait for them; They'll never come. In my opinion the most reasonable outcome is the 2nd. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aceytrixx Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Requizen said: Not a bad idea, but keep in mind the 50/50 Scions rule, so you would not be able to drop all the Ballistas and Castigators (and potential Ordinator) and maybe Azyros at the same time. As that list stands with the 12 units I would drop 2 Castigators and either 3 ballistas and Azyros or 4 ballistas and rely on the Azyros movement most likely. If I swap the Incantor for an ordinator then I'll drop him with 3 ballistas along with the 2 Castigators. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenshin620 Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Bradipo322 said: There are two possibilities here: We have to wait for them; They'll never come. In my opinion the most reasonable outcome is the 2nd. Yea Fantasy in general has always gotten the short end of the stick when it comes to conversion packs. Ah heck basically ALL factions outside of Space Marines and Chaos Space Marines get basically nothing, not even from FW (with small exceptions like eldar corsairs). For crying out loud they never made any Chaos God specific conversion packs for friggin Chaos Warriors! And they've been around for more than a decade! (seriously, a head swap and a weapon swap was all they needed!) Edited August 7, 2018 by kenshin620 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitz Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 Question: A battalion counts as 1 drop and is placed on the board at the same time. If placing in reserve/scion, does it count as 1 placement/drop in reserve? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Williams Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 41 minutes ago, Fitz said: Question: A battalion counts as 1 drop and is placed on the board at the same time. If placing in reserve/scion, does it count as 1 placement/drop in reserve? The way that I have been playing it is that the battalion is deployed all at the same time, but units are placed one at a time, and follow the 1:1 scions pattern. As an example, if you had a battalion with 4 units, and you deploy first, you put out all 4 units at once - 2 on the table and 2 in scions. Then your opponent has a turn deploying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielFM Posted August 7, 2018 Share Posted August 7, 2018 I was planning on using a Lord Arcanum on Tauralon, I liked the model (maybe with some conversion work) and the general concept. But the price tag was the first slap in the face, and the comparison with similar models just made it worse. Sorcerer Lord on Manticore-200 points/ +2 wounds, -1 spell Battlemage on Griffon-240 points/ +2 wounds, -1 spell Archmage on Dragon-320 points/ +4 wounds, -1 spell but +1 unbind Arkhan the Black-320 points/ +1 wounds, same spells, +1 unbind, way better caster. They are either way cheaper or tougher. The only thing the LAoT has over the others are some flashy special rules and an extra spell (except Arkhan). I know GW drove themselves into a corner with the price of the other Lords Arcanums (240 points for the 7 wounds ones), but 340 for what it brings is clearly too much. I will miss those two casts per turns, though ☹️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred1245 Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 21 hours ago, Barnie25 said: During the end of last year I picked up a number of Vanguard units. Is a vanguard themed army playable for regular games. I thought about adding a few ballistas and castigators to complement my raptors. Is it me or are vanguard hunters for 120 points still ******? It's sad that those are the only battleline units I currently have. You could play a list with 3 units of liberators, a lord exorcist, and 11 units of Gryph hounds and probably do okay in a casual game. And yes, they are absolutely still ****** at 120pts. I have no idea why GW thinks they're better than liberators. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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