AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[Richelieu]

49 minutes ago, hughwyeth said:

It's only 1 tournament. Worth waiting to see how Sacrosanct heavy SC do once the new rules have settled in a bit.

Don't forget that Stormcast won BOBO the previous week.   

I really hate to use the term power creep, but in this case, our new tools are flat out superior to our old and until more people have them on the table we won't be able to keep up with the new goodies the other top tier armies have.

What's more interesting to me is just how awful Seraphon did.  Only three lists at the tournament and the highest finish was like 42.  

[hughwyeth]

55 minutes ago, chord said:

Do we know the list used?

I believe Chris Tomlin is assembling a PDF with lists soon and will publish on the main Blackout thread. 

[ledha]

concerning the knight-venator, he doesn't hit that hard, however, being a character with 12" move, a 3+ save and a 30" range make him very very good in scenarios where heroes capture objectives ( same as the azyros. Both are insanely good for following the shifting objective) or if you need to relocate fast.

His threat range is terrific. You can stay out of range of a unit of prosecutors, but the venator can and WILL be able to shoot on his target. Plus he can't shoot without exposing himself to retaliation

Edited August 6, 2018 by ledha

[kenshin620]

On the topic of the dislike on the Hammers of Sigmar, I think I sort of understand GWs position (that doesn't mean I like it).

I think essentially they're still trying to establish the mini factions of AoS which is still pretty young for warhammer. So they're setting up Hammers as the Ultramarines, the poster boys who can be quickly associated with the game (especially to new players). So they want to flesh them out quickly, and you can easily do that by dumping a ton of special characters. Then once thats all done, probably they'll go and do the other stormhosts (who knows how long though that'll take, unless they start doing supplements).

 

Plus outside of people who actually play stormcast, how many people can recall exactly what each Stormhost does, their colors, and what makes them different from their peers? Compare that to 40k Space Marines where non space marine players can easily identify Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Grey Knights, etc even if they have never picked up the space marine books.

40k (and fantasy of course) has had over 20 years to get people emotionally and mechanically connected to space marine chapters, chaos groups, IG regiments, craftworlds, etc. AoS has....2 years so far. Heck people in AoS hate the "technically should be painted as stormhost X" suggestion, but in 40k if you try to pass off your Blood Angel army as a White Scars army, I'm pretty sure people there are going to question you!

Edited August 6, 2018 by kenshin620

[hughwyeth]

Has anyone played a lord-exorcist or have an opinion on him? I love the model so will field him (despite never playing against daemons or nighthaunt!) but can't see he's too great of a pick for a competitive list. 

[THUNDERHAMMER]

7 hours ago, aceytrixx said:

Solbright has a better version of the command ability and is cheaper but has a worse spell and is limited to hammers only. 

I play hammers and Id love to take her, but She would have to be my general and that means losing out on a command trait and the artefact. I cant see bringing another lord arcanum alongside her

[aceytrixx]

35 minutes ago, THUNDERHAMMER said:

I play hammers and Id love to take her, but She would have to be my general and that means losing out on a command trait and the artefact. I cant see bringing another lord arcanum alongside her

She's going to be my general. Largely down to points as she fits in my list perfectly but I also don't think I'll feel like I'm missing out on a command trait since prior to AoS 2 I was often running consummate commander which I can still do so it won't feel like I'm missing something. The artefact is rubbish especially as the only non named character in my list is a Knight Incantor but it's not the end of the world. 

[Lord Ein]

10 Protectors with 4 starsoul maces with warding lantern, Would you approve? Cant seem to use 10 Evocators since most of the time many of them wont hit anything..

New to AoS so just played 1 game

 

edit: 10 Evocators in 1 unit that is, still going to use two units of 5

Edited August 6, 2018 by Lord Ein

[Gottkaiser]

Why wouldn't the Evocators hit anything? If you equip them with Grandstaves, they have 2" reach and can hit from second row. They are far superior to Protectors.

[Lord Ein]

48 minutes ago, Gottkaiser said:

Why wouldn't the Evocators hit anything? If you equip them with Grandstaves, they have 2" reach and can hit from second row. They are far superior to Protectors.

Forgot to say I have 10 evos with dual weapons from soulwars ?

[Mark Williams]

On the topic of building a shooting sce army, that’s what I am doing, and it is very effective.

this is my list

lord celestant on dracoth, knight encantor, lord relictor, celestant prime

2x5 liberators, 5 evocators

2x5 judicators, 2x5 vanguards with crossbows, celestar ballista

everblaze comet

the judicators, raptors, and ballista drop from the sky and clear out pretty much anything you want, the ground units are defensive enough that you can’t just bulldoze into them.

however, I think it’s possible to go completely shooting, the problem is you would be too vulnerable. However I think the everblaze comet, knight encantor, lord relictor, and evocators are fairly blah in the list and don’t seem to do much . You could swap them out for three more ballistas and a knight azyros if you want to just be a total ******, I’m fairly certain you could one turn nagash even with his morghasts near him.

[Requizen]

Why are you using Vanguards in units of 5? They come by 3s?

And you won't one turn a buffed Nagash with that. Basically nothing one turns a buffed Nagash.

[Mark Williams]

56 minutes ago, Requizen said:

Why are you using Vanguards in units of 5? They come by 3s?

And you won't one turn a buffed Nagash with that. Basically nothing one turns a buffed Nagash.

I took nagash down to one wound in a single turn my last game. It’s definitely doable. 

Vangaurds - I meant 2x3.

Edited August 6, 2018 by Mark Williams

[Freejack02]

1 hour ago, Requizen said:

And you won't one turn a buffed Nagash with that. Basically nothing one turns a buffed Nagash.

14 minutes ago, Mark Williams said:

I took nagash down to one wound in a single turn my last game. It’s definitely doable. 

Vangaurds - I meant 2x3.

Yeah, I suppose you would need to define "buffed". A soulstrike brotherhood that goes all in on Castigators could also drop down turn 1 and delete him, but idk what battalion/synergy tricks he has up his sleeves (can he shrug off wounds to nearby Morghasts?).  It's possible, but would require some luck. 

 

 

[Mark Williams]

17 minutes ago, Freejack02 said:

Yeah, I suppose you would need to define "buffed". A soulstrike brotherhood that goes all in on Castigators could also drop down turn 1 and delete him, but idk what battalion/synergy tricks he has up his sleeves (can he shrug off wounds to nearby Morghasts?).  It's possible, but would require some luck. 

 

 

Turn1, I dropped and killed the morghasts. Turn two, if had landed the celestant prime, I would have killed him in a single turn. The kicker is my army isn’t even as shooty as it could be. I’m actually taking a pretty “balanced” list. I shudder to think what you could do if you played around with it more and really maxed it out. In the last tournament, I took 2nd most kill points. It honestly feels a bit broken to me. Most everyone I played hated facing it.

Edited August 6, 2018 by Mark Williams

[Freejack02]

14 minutes ago, Mark Williams said:

Turn1, I dropped and killed the morghasts. Turn two, if had landed the celestant prime, I would have killed him in a single turn. 

I know it's possible - but as I said it takes luck. You're talking hypothetical scenario anyway, a turn 2 Prime has a VERY tough job of deleting Nagash off the board. It requires great rolls and poor rolls from the enemy. Did Nagash not retaliate on his turn by killing a bunch of your shooters, or did you get a double-turn (again, lucky)? 

[Mark Williams]

56 minutes ago, Freejack02 said:

I know it's possible - but as I said it takes luck. You're talking hypothetical scenario anyway, a turn 2 Prime has a VERY tough job of deleting Nagash off the board. It requires great rolls and poor rolls from the enemy. Did Nagash not retaliate on his turn by killing a bunch of your shooters, or did you get a double-turn (again, lucky)? 

I rolled pretty average, so did he. I didn’t get a double turn. He got two more turns before I got to attack and finish nagash off. My point is that I didn’t even max out the potential of a shooting stormcast army. If I had a single buff or extra shooting unit, or pulled the prime out earlier, I would’ve overkilled him. I’m not sure you understand just how strong it is. It feels fairly broken.

As for hitbacks, he underestimated the threat of them, and went for an objective instead of trying to kill them. So far at least, everyone I play underestimates them, and doesn’t consider them worth divesting resources at. I literally tabled or nearly tabled every single army that I faced this weekend. These were tough armies like Nurgle and death, every single opponent said it was the first time they had lost their units so quickly.

It will be tougher to win once people start fearing and respecting it more, but right now everyone just barges into me thinking they will just bowl me over, and they get smacked hard for it.

[mystycalchemy]

1 hour ago, Mark Williams said:

I rolled pretty average, so did he. I didn’t get a double turn. He got two more turns before I got to attack and finish nagash off. My point is that I didn’t even max out the potential of a shooting stormcast army. If I had a single buff or extra shooting unit, or pulled the prime out earlier, I would’ve overkilled him. I’m not sure you understand just how strong it is. It feels fairly broken.

As for hitbacks, he underestimated the threat of them, and went for an objective instead of trying to kill them. So far at least, everyone I play underestimates them, and doesn’t consider them worth divesting resources at. I literally tabled or nearly tabled every single army that I faced this weekend. These were tough armies like Nurgle and death, every single opponent said it was the first time they had lost their units so quickly.

It will be tougher to win once people start fearing and respecting it more, but right now everyone just barges into me thinking they will just bowl me over, and they get smacked hard for it.

What was the list you ran? I think I mightve missed it in the past few pages.

[Mark Williams]

5 minutes ago, mystycalchemy said:

What was the list you ran? I think I mightve missed it in the past few pages.

This is what I'm running right now, but I already have some changes in mind to tweak it and make it even stronger.

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar

Leaders
Lord-Celestant On Dracoth (220)
- General
- Tempestos Hammer & Thundershield
- Trait: We Cannot Fail 
- Artefact: God-forged Blade 
- Mount Trait: Keen-clawed
Knight-Incantor (140)
- Spell: Lighntning Blast
Lord-Relictor (100)
- Prayer: Divine Light
Celestant-Prime (340)

Battleline
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammer & Shield
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Judicators (160)
- Boltstorm Crossbows
- 1x Thunderbolt Crossbows
5 x Judicators (160)
- Boltstorm Crossbows
- 1x Thunderbolt Crossbows

Units
5 x Evocators (200)
- 5x Grandstaves
- Lore of Invigoration: Speed of Lightning
3 x Vanguard-Raptors with Hurricane Crossbows (140)
3 x Vanguard-Raptors with Hurricane Crossbows (140)

War Machines
Celestar Ballista (100)

Endless Spells
Everblaze Comet (100)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 99

[LordDrakonus]

I really like the idea of a heavy shooting list, The idea would be to drop the Lord-Ordinator,Vanguard-Raptors and Celestar Ballista in a good shooting position, Wreck face with the star drake. Drop the comet for some mortal wounds,cancel scary spells with scrolls camp with Judicators and block/grab objectives with Liberators. My only worry is it's many drops so I very likely wont be getting turn 1.

2000 Stormcast Eternals

0 Command points
11 drops

Battalions/Endless Spells
Everblaze Comet 100

Heros
Lord-Celestant On Stardrake 560
(Legendary Fighter/Ethereal Amulet/Lithe-Limbed)

Lord-Ordinator 140

Knight-Incantor 140

Knight-Incantor 140

Battleline
5 Liberators 100

5 Judicators 160
(Skybolt Bows/Shockbolt Bows)

5 Judicators 160
(Skybolt Bows/Shockbolt Bows)

Other
3 Vanguard-Raptors with Hurricane Crossbows 140

3 Vanguard-Raptors with Hurricane Crossbows 140

Warmachines
Celestar Ballista 100

Celestar Ballista 100

Army Total:1980

[Erdemo86]

3 hours ago, LordDrakonus said:

I really like the idea of a heavy shooting list, The idea would be to drop the Lord-Ordinator,Vanguard-Raptors and Celestar Ballista in a good shooting position, Wreck face with the star drake. Drop the comet for some mortal wounds,cancel scary spells with scrolls camp with Judicators and block/grab objectives with Liberators. My only worry is it's many drops so I very likely wont be getting turn 1.

2000 Stormcast Eternals

0 Command points
11 drops

Battalions/Endless Spells
Everblaze Comet 100

Heros
Lord-Celestant On Stardrake 560
(Legendary Fighter/Ethereal Amulet/Lithe-Limbed)

Lord-Ordinator 140

Knight-Incantor 140

Knight-Incantor 140

Battleline
5 Liberators 100

5 Judicators 160
(Skybolt Bows/Shockbolt Bows)

5 Judicators 160
(Skybolt Bows/Shockbolt Bows)

Other
3 Vanguard-Raptors with Hurricane Crossbows 140

3 Vanguard-Raptors with Hurricane Crossbows 140

Warmachines
Celestar Ballista 100

Celestar Ballista 100

Army Total:1980

A friend of me plays a shooting heavy list like this:

anvils of heldenhammer:

Allegiance: Order
Knight-Azyros (100)
Lord-Ordinator (140)
Knight-Incantor (140)
Celestial Hurricanum With Celestial Battlemage (380)
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
6 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (360)
Celestar Ballista (100)
Celestar Ballista (100)
Celestar Ballista (100)
Everblaze Comet (100)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 89
 

He deploys all balistas and ordinator in the sky and drops them 18“ away of important enemy units. He uses anvils command ability to shoot twice with his Raptors and kills important enemy units turn 1. Its not my way to play but looks fun.

Edited August 7, 2018 by Erdemo86

[aceytrixx]

Speaking of shooting lists I've been trying to think to a way to get Castigators to do work since I was really looking forward to them but they are a bit underwhelming and this was what I was thinking about 

 

Lord Aquilor 200

Knight Azyros 100

Knight Incantor 140

 

5 Vanguard Hunters 120

5 Vanguard Hunters 120

5 Judicators 160

 

12 Castigators 320

12 Castigators 320

 

Celestar Ballista 100

Celestar Ballista 100

Celestar Ballista 100

Celestar Ballista 100

 

Soulstrike brotherhood 120

 

[Erdemo86]

14 minutes ago, aceytrixx said:

Speaking of shooting lists I've been trying to think to a way to get Castigators to do work since I was really looking forward to them but they are a bit underwhelming and this was what I was thinking about 

 

Lord Aquilor 200

Knight Azyros 100

Knight Incantor 140

 

5 Vanguard Hunters 120

5 Vanguard Hunters 120

5 Judicators 160

 

12 Castigators 320

12 Castigators 320

 

Celestar Ballista 100

Celestar Ballista 100

Celestar Ballista 100

Celestar Ballista 100

 

Soulstrike brotherhood 120

 

I would try to put in an ordinator for your ballistas.

[aceytrixx]

12 minutes ago, Erdemo86 said:

I would try to put in an ordinator for your ballistas.

There's the easy option to swap out the Incantor for the Ordinator which I have thought about doing depending on play testing 

[schwabbele]

@Mark Williams when you scion the raptors in does the +3 to attacks apply? Technically they didnt move ?