AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[GeneralZero]

may I ask again? I'm thinking about palladors and raptors. How are they in the AoS 2 and Stormcast 2.0? Are they worth it?

[Urauloth]

Curious to hear people's thoughts on Raptors as well, because I really like the Vanguard minis and I'm considering expanding in that direction once I have some more Sacrosanct stuff.

[Kugane]

5 hours ago, GeneralZero said:

may I ask again? I'm thinking about palladors and raptors. How are they in the AoS 2 and Stormcast 2.0? Are they worth it?

I don't remember the exact numbers, but I have an approximate memory of what I calculated. Against a 4+ save unit you will deal roughly 7,5 wound damage on average on the top of my head for a unit of 3 palladors, this is both shooting and getting a charge of, about 2 W of that 7.5 Is shooting. So a good 4 wounds per 100 points spent *if you get all in combat*. This is where their strength lies. They have great mobility and decent damage output. Great for getting a turn 1 charge off or sneaking behind enemy lines with an aquilor. As for raptors. Long strike does about 2 damage unbuffed per 100p spent. Hurricane about 2.4 I believe with the +3 att after deep strike, making them slightly more powerful than empowered castigators and even ballistas which at 18 inch range do about 2,22 damage. Hurricane cannot move after that though, which limits them, but Aquilor can fix that. 

In my opinions hurricane raptors are great to deepstrike and shoot for that matter, but kind of a 1 trick pony.

Realistically speaking though, a unit of sequitors gives you about 5 damage per 100 points spent per combat and enhanced weapons and evokers about 6 wound per 100 points spent. With the celestial realm being great for close deployment, you could do similar stuff with those units now, but only have a ~29ish% chance  to get a charge of... And they cannot be empowered by evokes until the next turn either.

in short: vanguard stuff is great to get a fast turn 1 semi consistent damage output. Newer stuff has to wait a turn before getting useful (barring the ballista and castigators).

Unmoved hurricane deal more damage on average it seems, but castigators can have 2 rend, which is useful. The issue with castigated she remains being unable to empower them the turn they come down from the celestial realm and the command ability of the arcanum isn't enough.

I forgot to add.... soulstrike brotherhood (is that the name?) if you aren't running aquilor, gives about 2 to 2,2 damage per 100 points spent adding everything up, but gives an extra artifact and command point. Not the greatest either since you need to deploy 1 of your hunter units which nerfs that 2 damage further. 

Edited July 21, 2018 by Kugane

[Vulcan666]

Ok, first of hi all. Second, been struggling with a puzzle in the Stormcasts book, when you pick a stormhost you have to give the general of your army the command trait. Now does this mean if you pick a named character as your general like Soulbright, she gets the command trait of the Hammers of Sigmar even though normally she would not get one?

 

[kenshin620]

6 minutes ago, Vulcan666 said:

Ok, first of hi all. Second, been struggling with a puzzle in the Stormcasts book, when you pick a stormhost you have to give the general of your army the command trait. Now does this mean if you pick a named character as your general like Soulbright, she gets the command trait of the Hammers of Sigmar even though normally she would not get one?

 

Special characters can never gain command traits or items.

[Vulcan666]

That then means if you ever run the Hammers of Sigmar stormhost you can never have the named characters as the general, which is bloody weird.

[mystycalchemy]

2 hours ago, Vulcan666 said:

That then means if you ever run the Hammers of Sigmar stormhost you can never have the named characters as the general, which is bloody weird.

I think you can take them as your general, but they just dont get the trait. The trait basically vanishes.

[eduboy]

Updated list now when I got Battletome to my hands. What do you guys think?

 

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Anvils of the Heldenhammer
LEADERS
Lord-Arcanum on Gryph-Charger (240)
- General
- Command Trait : Deathly Aura
- Artefact : Soulthief
- Spell : Azyrite Halo
- Mount Trait : Lithe-limbed
Knight-Incantor (140)
- Spell : Stormcaller
Knight-Azyros (100)
Lord-Ordinator (140)
UNITS
5 x Judicators (160)
-Skybolt Bows
- 2 x Shockbolt Bows
5 x Judicators (160)
-Skybolt Bows
- 2 x Shockbolt Bows
10 x Sequitors (240)
-Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
- 4 x Stormsmite Greatmaces
WAR MACHINES
Celestar Ballista (100)
Celestar Ballista (100)
Celestar Ballista (100)
TOTAL: 1480/1500 EXTRA COMMAND POINTS: 0 WOUNDS: 83

[Richelieu]

2 hours ago, mystycalchemy said:

I think you can take them as your general, but they just dont get the trait. The trait basically vanishes.

This is correct, as clarified in the FAQ about Morathi being general of a DoK list with a Temple.  

[Vulcan666]

Got it, kinda wish that was put into the main faq. Guess I am not taking soulbright as the hq. Thanks for the answers.

[Vulcan666]

While I am here, might as well post my 2k army idea that I am thinking of taking to an event, would love any thoughts on the judicators, crossbows or sky bolt bows?

 

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar

Leaders
Lord-Arcanum (180)
- General
- Trait: We Cannot Fail
- Celestial Staves (Artefact): Staff of Focus
Knight-Incantor (140)
Knight-Heraldor (100)
Gavriel Sureheart (100)
Lord-Ordinator (140)
- Artefact: God-forged Blade

Battleline
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
- 1x Shockbolt Bows
5 x Judicators (160)
- Boltstorm Crossbows
- 1x Thunderbolt Crossbows
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammers
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Sequitors (120)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
- 2x Stormsmite Greatmaces
5 x Sequitors (120)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
- 2x Stormsmite Greatmaces

Units
6 x Castigators (160)
5 x Evocators (200)

War Machines
Celestar Ballista (100)

Battalions
Hailstorm Battery (120)

Endless Spells
Everblaze Comet (100)

Total: 2000 / 2000
 

[kenshin620]

7 minutes ago, Vulcan666 said:

Got it, kinda wish that was put into the main faq. Guess I am not taking soulbright as the hq. Thanks for the answers.

I think they assumed that since the main rules don't give special characters traits and items that it would be obvious to also be applied to "mandatory" traits and artifacts.

 

Then again in 40k, special characters there automatically take their "forced" Warlord Traits so it can be confusing on their stance on that stuff.

[Freejack02]

1 hour ago, Vulcan666 said:

While I am here, might as well post my 2k army idea that I am thinking of taking to an event, would love any thoughts on the judicators, crossbows or sky bolt bows?

 

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar

Leaders
Lord-Arcanum (180)
- General
- Trait: We Cannot Fail
- Celestial Staves (Artefact): Staff of Focus
Knight-Incantor (140)
Knight-Heraldor (100)
Gavriel Sureheart (100)
Lord-Ordinator (140)
- Artefact: God-forged Blade

Battleline
5 x Judicators (160)
- Skybolt Bows
- 1x Shockbolt Bows
5 x Judicators (160)
- Boltstorm Crossbows
- 1x Thunderbolt Crossbows
5 x Liberators (100)
- Warhammers
- 1x Grandhammers
5 x Sequitors (120)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
- 2x Stormsmite Greatmaces
5 x Sequitors (120)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
- 2x Stormsmite Greatmaces

Units
6 x Castigators (160)
5 x Evocators (200)

War Machines
Celestar Ballista (100)

Battalions
Hailstorm Battery (120)

Endless Spells
Everblaze Comet (100)

Total: 2000 / 2000
 

I personally don't think the Hailstorm Battery gives any good return on the investment, so I would cut it. I would also drop the Castigators all together, which allows you to bump one of the Sequitor squads from 5 up to 20. Or if that doesn't appeal to you, I would take a couple more Ballistas to capitalize on having a LO already present. I have a low opinion of Castigators all around, and the Hailstorm Battery to me doesn't warrant 120 points. 

[Requete]

6 hours ago, Freejack02 said:

I personally don't think the Hailstorm Battery gives any good return on the investment, so I would cut it. I would also drop the Castigators all together, which allows you to bump one of the Sequitor squads from 5 up to 20. Or if that doesn't appeal to you, I would take a couple more Ballistas to capitalize on having a LO already present. I have a low opinion of Castigators all around, and the Hailstorm Battery to me doesn't warrant 120 points. 

Isn't really  "70 points + 1 CP" though? So for 70 you get an extra artefact and the reroll? That seems pretty cheap, assuming you want to have the units anyways.
 

[Freejack02]

57 minutes ago, Requete said:

Isn't really  "70 points + 1 CP" though? So for 70 you get an extra artefact and the reroll? That seems pretty cheap, assuming you want to have the units anyways.
 

Fair enough - the extra artefact could be big... but I still think Castigators are a waste of points. With the LO accounted for, I would rather take a couple extra ballistas. 

[Namelessone81]

So what do you think 

2 balista + Lord Ordinator

or 

6 vanguard raptors with long strikes ?

[Vulcan666]

I don't know much but i know that vanguard raptors with long strikes are very cool. Yeah, castigators seem odd compared to the other ranged units for stormcast, vanguard raptors with long strike being a dam sight cooler. I am eventually going to branch into the vanguard chamber there is that battalion that uses vanguard hunters and castigators.

[Black Blade]

I'm a Stormcast player, I want to say that upfront because I have a bit of an issue with the way the faction has been handled and I wanted to get some other opinions. I feel like their line is already bloated and in some cases redundant. I can't think of a model that I don't think looks cool with the SC. They essentially have 3 armies with (in my opinion) negligable variation shoved into 1 faction. 

Between Liberators,  Hunters and Sequitors you've got a battle line unit repeated three times over. One of these could have been SC and the other two could have been designed as another Order faction. Same with cav options. You got ones on dragons ones on dragon cats and ones on bird horses. All very cool but also a little redundant. This isn't to say they are precisely the same thing but they represent an interesting monstrous cav unit and the other two or even one could have been used (as a concept) for something like Freeguild for example. 

I'm just concerned that one faction being so dense between lords and units will have some oppressive effects on the games development. What are your thoughts?

[DanielFM]

2 hours ago, Freejack02 said:

Fair enough - the extra artefact could be big... but I still think Castigators are a waste of points. With the LO accounted for, I would rather take a couple extra ballistas. 

I disagree about  Castigators being a waste of points. Properly buffed (Evocators+LA CA) they can be quite strong, delivering 4 wounds to a 4+ save VS 2,47 from bow Judicators. Yeah, that's a perfect storm with a lot of investment thrown together, but they are not a waste of points IMHO they just aren't as point and click as Judicators.

Edited July 22, 2018 by DanielFM

[cooleyo]

2 hours ago, Black Blade said:

I'm a Stormcast player, I want to say that upfront because I have a bit of an issue with the way the faction has been handled and I wanted to get some other opinions. I feel like their line is already bloated and in some cases redundant. I can't think of a model that I don't think looks cool with the SC. They essentially have 3 armies with (in my opinion) negligable variation shoved into 1 faction. 

Between Liberators,  Hunters and Sequitors you've got a battle line unit repeated three times over. One of these could have been SC and the other two could have been designed as another Order faction. Same with cav options. You got ones on dragons ones on dragon cats and ones on bird horses. All very cool but also a little redundant. This isn't to say they are precisely the same thing but they represent an interesting monstrous cav unit and the other two or even one could have been used (as a concept) for something like Freeguild for example. 

I'm just concerned that one faction being so dense between lords and units will have some oppressive effects on the games development. What are your thoughts?

That was well put. I agree. They could have given us shooty montrous cav and melee monstrous cav and that would have been enough.

[Mark Williams]

I just bought a box of evocators this weekend but I’m conflicted about how to build them. Are the grandstaves better than the sword+stave option?

[Luke.w]

9 minutes ago, Mark Williams said:

I just bought a box of evocators this weekend but I’m conflicted about how to build them. Are the grandstaves better than the sword+stave option?

Mathemarically, the grandstaves are better against 4+ save and above. They are the same against 3+ and then swords+staves are better against 2+ and below. Given the rarity of 2+ and even 3+ saves, the grandstaves are better on paper.

However many feel more secure in having rend as this makes the attacks of the sword+stave more reliable despite being weaker on average.

Against rerolling saves (e.g. Kurnoth hunters), the rend is also more viable, and the swords+staves do more damage against 5+ rerolling save or better.

When taking a unit of ten evocators, I would equip 5 with grandstaves to fight in two ranks.

 

[Richelieu]

14 minutes ago, Mark Williams said:

I just bought a box of evocators this weekend but I’m conflicted about how to build them. Are the grandstaves better than the sword+stave option?

In most situations they are.  You could build a couple with swords and a couple with grandstaves so they can reach from the back rank.  The prime should use a grandstave since one extra attack for that weapon is more powerful than one extra attack with a sword.  

[Kugane]

1 hour ago, cooleyo said:

That was well put. I agree. They could have given us shooty montrous cav and melee monstrous cav and that would have been enough.

I think the new chamber stuff has a really nice aesthetic though and I am currently doing lots of conversions with the new models, but I personally would have preferred something like the sequitors just being liberators with a new chamber look and special rules coming from a chamber you take rather than an entirely new unit. Similar to how there are different looking space marines, whom essentially do the same thing, just look different.

[Kugane]

1 hour ago, Mark Williams said:

I just bought a box of evocators this weekend but I’m conflicted about how to build them. Are the grandstaves better than the sword+stave option?

It's not a huge increase, but against a target with a 4+ save grandstaves are on average about 1 damage more per 5 models, totaling you about 13 or so damage if I remember correctly when all attacks go through vs 12 damage with sword and stave. Not a huge difference on a 2k points scale, but if you are a minmaxer go for the grand staves

Edited July 22, 2018 by Kugane