AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[CountryMou3e]

13 hours ago, chord said:

Fair point.   Still a dumb ability, it should be set the model back up with one wound this stopping the overkill mechanism. That would be more useful.

 

We’re yet to see whether the same ability can proc consecutively... if it can, that’s it becomes slightly more useful again  

[DanielFM]

1 hour ago, Erdemo86 said:

Not  over 18 inch. Under 18 inch the balistas are better.

 

That's for only 6" of the Judicators range. The other 18", the Balista is better. From 24" to 36", the Balista is 100% better. 

To sum up, only for 1/6 of the Balista range it is worse than Judicators. Sounds like a better deal to me.

[Turragor]

16 hours ago, Richelieu said:

That's actually exactly how it's written.  Wounds are allocated one at a time, so if I have 1 wound remaining on a model and 2 must be allocated I would:

1) allocate the first wound.  

2) the model is slain

3) cycle of storm is triggered, returning 1 wound to the slain model and preventing it from being removed.

4) allocate the second wound.

5) the model is slain.

6) the model is removed

I've debated this in a few places and find it less interesting now - it will work how they want it to work and I'm happy however that its. I don't care for OP stuff (that just gets nerfed).

However, it's one big RAI argument because as written when the last model in a unit is slain it is gone and you can't allocate more wounds. I don't see how the wounds can just 'wait'.  It's not explained in the rules for allocating damage.

So at 2 all excess wounds are gone. There's nothing written that says what you do with excess damage other than it spills onto the same unit but never from one unit to another OR to the same unit after it is slain (see how ppl have been playing all resurrection rules).

As Ben explained it now, anything that lets you setup the same unit again has to take excess damage imo. Even if it moves. It's the same unit.

Ofc, ppl disagree about this and that's ok! Like I said, it's not really important how it reads or is logically pieced together when you have a rules team who know how they meant it to be and how they want it played.

/edit/ You mention actually "preventing it from being removed" - and I've seen that idea being used to explain that slain isn't slain and wounds wait until a unit is removed.

However the core rules seem to indicate removal is just so you don't mix up slain and not-slain units. Slain seems to be the key.

Edited June 27, 2018 by Turragor

[Tiriom]

^ I think that is how it will work as well, it clearly says once the model is slain.  That to me means theres no wounds hovering waiting for it to come back, you assign wounds and it dies, then is essentially summoned again with 1 wound remaining.

Once a model is slain is it not dead?  I don't really understand how you could RAI that differently.

Also cycle of storm is not something that is "triggered" the player chooses when to use this ability and on what target.  It is not something that you even need to declare before the wounds are assigned.

Edited June 27, 2018 by Tiriom

[Turragor]

Well I mean, it is going to work how Ben Johnson, GW & Co want it to work so it's all moot. I just like to engage those who think it's clear as written now as I disagree with the removal as opposed to slain thing

[Aeonotakist]

Actually even if the Cycle of Storm is used in the way Ben mentioned, it is not a useless ability. It almost means you have +1 wound characteristic on all the HQ in your army. 

The problem is the overall high point on Lord Arcanum.

 

[PJetski]

I think some people are looking at Cycle like it's useless because it won't keep a stardrake alive against multiple volleys from a kunnin rukk... a better way to look at it is reactively healing your infantry units every turn.

If you have 2 Cycles you can save a Sequitor every turn, or perhaps prevent a character from being sniped.

If you have 3 Cycles you can save a Paladin/Evocator every turn, and almost certainly deny a character from being killed long enough to land some healing on them.

Since Arcanums are also Wizards, maybe its not too difficult to justify bringing multiples.

[Richelieu]

7 minutes ago, PJetski said:

I think some people are looking at Cycle like it's useless because it won't keep a stardrake alive against multiple volleys from a kunnin rukk... a better way to look at it is reactively healing your infantry units every turn.

If you have 2 Cycles you can save a Sequitor every turn, or perhaps prevent a character from being sniped.

If you have 3 Cycles you can save a Paladin/Evocator every turn, and almost certainly deny a character from being killed long enough to land some healing on them.

Since Arcanums are also Wizards, maybe its not too difficult to justify bringing multiples.

Oh I definitely think it's useful, in fact I think it's more useful than a one HP per turn heal because that is continent upon there being a model on the board that has taken wounds, but not been slain.  Models are slain pretty much every turn though, so you're almost guaranteed to use it regularly.  Also note that it is once per turn, so you can potentially use it 10 times per game.  

Outside of mortals it can be extremely hard to put overflow damage onto highly armored units like fulminators and heroes, so I think being able to prevent one or two damage and then top them back up with a relictor or arcanum heal will be rather strong.

[Kadanga]

I think that the Cycle will get better as the game progresses, units die, and the damage output is lower; making it easier for you to trigger the cycle. Especially if you are stacking 2-3 of the ability.

I think have 3 won't be uncommon.

1 from LAoFoot (for spells)
1 from LAoMount (for CA)
1 from LAoSpaceGoat (for the lulz)

[Mikosan]

32 minutes ago, Aeonotakist said:

Actually even if the Cycle of Storm is used in the way Ben mentioned, it is not a useless ability. It almost means you have +1 wound characteristic on all the HQ in your army. 

The problem is the overall high point on Lord Arcanum.

 

It's actually way more useful on multi-wound units, because even with excess damage it still essentially negates one wound or more if you double up on Lord Arcanum.  Using it to heal characters is so situational that it isn't really practical, great if it comes up, but really not something you can build a strategy around.

 

25 minutes ago, PJetski said:

I think some people are looking at Cycle like it's useless because it won't keep a stardrake alive against multiple volleys from a kunnin rukk... a better way to look at it is reactively healing your infantry units every turn.

If you have 2 Cycles you can save a Sequitor every turn, or perhaps prevent a character from being sniped.

If you have 3 Cycles you can save a Paladin/Evocator every turn, and almost certainly deny a character from being killed long enough to land some healing on them.

Since Arcanums are also Wizards, maybe its not too difficult to justify bringing multiples.

Thats literally an extreme example that no one was talking about.   In an age where not just models but whole units can be summoned to the board with a command point, keeping 1 battleline trooper alive and requiring two expensive characters to do it seems...meh.  I actually like the idea of the rule more if I just think about it as an ability that negates one wound which triggers when a model is slain rather than returns a slain model, because most of the time it really won't return a model.  The cost of the Arcanums are the real hindrance to multiple uses, but you are right, probably going to include multiple wizards anyway so maybe it ends up more useful than at first glance.  I can't wait to try it out!

Edited June 27, 2018 by Mikosan

[Erdemo86]

16 hours ago, Richelieu said:

And the generic Lord Arcanum on Dracoline is actually 20 points more expensive than Solbright.

Same like on gryph charger.

Edited June 27, 2018 by Erdemo86

[PJetski]

Preventing one wound is not impressive.

Preventing a fatal wound is an okay ability.

Preventing a fatal wound every turn is decent.

Preventing three fatal wounds every turn is pretty good.

[Mikosan]

18 minutes ago, PJetski said:

Preventing one wound is not impressive.

Preventing a fatal wound is an okay ability.

Preventing a fatal wound every turn is decent.

Preventing three fatal wounds every turn is pretty good.

I agree.  That will  cost you a minimum of 540 points for 3 of the foot version though.  The whole conversation does have me thinking  more positively on the ability, so for that I do thank you?

Edited June 27, 2018 by Mikosan

[Erdemo86]

1 hour ago, Mikosan said:

I agree.  That will  cost you a minimum of 540 points for 3 of the foot version though.  The whole conversation does have me thinking  more positively on the ability, so for that I do thank you?

I was thinking of taking 2 of them in a Stardrake list with 4 fulminators somethink like :

Drakesworn Templer

Castellant

Heraldor

2x lord arcannum on foot

 

2x Sequitors

1x Judicators

1x 4 Fulminators

Chronomatig Cogs

Pendulum

but ithink cutting 1 and adding 2 balistas is better.

Edited June 27, 2018 by Erdemo86

[Luke.w]

Fun Vandus 2k list. Battlemage is there to go on fulminators. With the templar's bow they will be 2+ 2+ and intolerable damage will activate on a 5+ to wound. Do you think this will be competitive?

 

Drakesowrn Templar  460
-Staunch Defender
-Strife Ender

Vandus Hammerhand   280

Lord Castellant  100

Knight Heraldor  100

Battlemage  120
-Amber

5 Liberators  100

5 Judicators  160

5 Judicators  160

4 Fulminators  480

Chronomatic Cogs 40

2000/2000
 

[Requizen]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/06/27/27th-june-battletome-preview-endless-spellsgw-homepage-post-2/

Endless spells! 

Hammer Tornado seems reasonable. 40 points to hurt enemy shooting, not bad. Not amazing, since many good units (like Skyfires or Kurnoth Hunters) can just get away from it quite easily, but 40 points is not expensive.

Dias gives better saves, Fly, and an additional Unbind, which is cool. Brings most Heroes to a 2+, and the extra unbind will be really nice in this edition. Glad it's not just a moving Balewind.

The Comet, though, that thing is the sauce. 100 points is steep, but I think I'd bring this thing over a Purple Sun any day of the week. Nuke camping units, ****** over hiding Wizards. Potentially instagib a model 46" away from the caster. And casts on a 6? So, so good.

[mystycalchemy]

13 minutes ago, Requizen said:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/06/27/27th-june-battletome-preview-endless-spellsgw-homepage-post-2/

Endless spells! 

Hammer Tornado seems reasonable. 40 points to hurt enemy shooting, not bad. Not amazing, since many good units (like Skyfires or Kurnoth Hunters) can just get away from it quite easily, but 40 points is not expensive.

Dias gives better saves, Fly, and an additional Unbind, which is cool. Brings most Heroes to a 2+, and the extra unbind will be really nice in this edition. Glad it's not just a moving Balewind.

The Comet, though, that thing is the sauce. 100 points is steep, but I think I'd bring this thing over a Purple Sun any day of the week. Nuke camping units, ****** over hiding Wizards. Potentially instagib a model 46" away from the caster. And casts on a 6? So, so good.

Yeah the comet seems completely insane, even at 100 points. Being able to cast it from outside unbinding range and smash something in a 10" radius is massive. Even if you roll a 1 or 2, its still a huuuuge range to hit everything with.

[Freejack02]

8 minutes ago, Requizen said:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/06/27/27th-june-battletome-preview-endless-spellsgw-homepage-post-2/

Endless spells! 

Hammer Tornado seems reasonable. 40 points to hurt enemy shooting, not bad. Not amazing, since many good units (like Skyfires or Kurnoth Hunters) can just get away from it quite easily, but 40 points is not expensive.

Dias gives better saves, Fly, and an additional Unbind, which is cool. Brings most Heroes to a 2+, and the extra unbind will be really nice in this edition. Glad it's not just a moving Balewind.

The Comet, though, that thing is the sauce. 100 points is steep, but I think I'd bring this thing over a Purple Sun any day of the week. Nuke camping units, ****** over hiding Wizards. Potentially instagib a model 46" away from the caster. And casts on a 6? So, so good.

Wow, Comet is very tempting even at 100. Pair that with a few Heraldors via scions (assuming it doesn't change), and you can alpha strike nuke a large area of the board with mortal wounds before the enemy can even react.

I'm interested to see what the Dias rules are, mobile command platform sounds like an auto-include for some foot heroes. Castellant would have no problems keeping up with lantern targets; LC could reach out further with his hammer cloak; Relictors could heal/debuff more effectively...

[PJetski]

Comet + Stardrake can give enemy wizards -2 to casting

Combine it with a Soulsnare Shackles to prevent people from moving away from it

Dais is interesting. Paying 40pt for +1 save (works well with Mystic Shield, and it might even be stackable with cover), another unbind, and some kind of flying move is very interesting.

Edited June 27, 2018 by PJetski

[Kadanga]

Paired up with a balewind that's a serious threat-range.

And it goes off on a 6? That's extremely low for something that good. 

[Turragor]

Comet is nearly a must have! It's not predatory which I think, combined with everything else, gives it a number of very strong uses.

[Requizen]

4 minutes ago, Kadanga said:

Paired up with a balewind that's a serious threat-range.

And it goes off on a 6? That's extremely low for something that good. 

It also means it can be dispelled easily, but since it does damage at the start of the Battle Round, if you cast it at the bottom of a Turn it's guaranteed to do landing damage and one round of pulse damage. 

1 minute ago, Turragor said:

Comet is nearly a must have! It's not predatory which I think, combined with everything else, gives it a number of very strong uses.

It doesn't move, so it's a great area denial zone. Can't reach an Objective? Just nuke it and go after other ones ?

[Skinnyboy]

41 minutes ago, Requizen said:

It also means it can be dispelled easily, but since it does damage at the start of the Battle Round, if you cast it at the bottom of a Turn it's guaranteed to do landing damage and one round of pulse damage. 

Dispelling it easily is great cause then you can just cast it again and do more crash damage, definitely an excellent spell!

[JonnyTheKing]

2 minutes ago, Skinnyboy said:

Dispelling it easily is great cause then you can just cast it again and do more crash damage, definitely an excellent spell!

Forgive me, but I'm not 100% familiar with the way endless spells yet. So if it is unbinded can you actually cast it again for free?

[Skinnyboy]

Just now, JonnyTheKing said:

Forgive me, but I'm not 100% familiar with the way endless spells yet. So if it is unbinded can you actually cast it again for free?

Lets say a build a list and it has a lord arcanum, a knight incantor and the celestine vortex (hammer tornado) and the comet. I pay 40 pts for the vortex and 100pts for the comet and all my wizards know both those spells in addition to any others they know. Turn 1 my lord arcanum can cast comet, if it fails to go off thats it for the turn. The incantor is not allowed to attempt to cast comet. She can however attempt to cast any other spell or other endless spell she knows.

T2 my lord arcanum successfully casts comet. The incantor can cast any other spell or endless spell she knows. She is not allowed to cast comet.

T3 the comet is still around. None of my wizards are allowed to cast comet as you can only have one of each endless spell in play per player at a time.

T4 my opponent elects to dispell comet by forgoing a casting attempt on one of their wizards. If they beat the minimum casting value the comet goes away. On my next turn I am free to cast the comet again.

T5 lets say the comet is in play and its the beginning of my turn, i can elect to dispell it with my knight incantor, needing to give up a casting attempt and meeting the role. If i make the roll i can remove it and attempt to cast it again with the lord arcanum. Lets say the lord arcanum meets the casting roll but my opponent is able to unbind then the spell does not go off. I am allowed to attempt the casting again in any subsequent turns.

The 100pts buys you the spell which can be cast any number of times during the game, provided a comet does not exist on the table. Your opponent can unbind when the spell is being cast or dispell and already existing endless spell in their own hero phase by giving up a casting attempt.