AoS 2 - Stormcast Eternals Discussion

[Towenaar]

1 minute ago, Richelieu said:

Assuming you don't have another Lord Arcanum, which I absolutely would if the ability worked that way.  Having to put damage on something from 2, 3 or more different sources per turn is extremely difficult.

I guess in this scenario your opponent is much better off killing one of your Lord Arcanums before any other heroes. They can rez each other once per turn but I wouldn't call it gamebreaking or say it made them invincible.

[Aydwen]

 Hey,

 

  Having played more games with our new Battletome, and as far as the edition goes, I feel that I settled in a couple of things: 

 

A) The primary weakness of army - expensive and low model count- didn't change a bit , nor it will ever be, which is ok for my tastes. BUT, some things should have underwent in a more thorough consideration when DT decided to (re)introduce free summoning for a bunch of armies in the game. Armies that don't have access in summoning,fight an uphill battle right from the start. We had to grind our way through hordes/horde-like units, then use positioning/teleportation tech to grab objectives. And it was ok, ''cause required tactic, quick-thinking  and cleverness. As of now, I just don't see the point of doing all of this - just to have the other guy spawning the same 40Skellies blob AGAIN / having Sera pouring more bubble-wrapping Skinks in the obj (or maybe Bastiladons-for serious business ) / having DoT dominate games once again now with free summoning AND the classic 9+ spells per turn(now with Umbral SpellPortal the games are faster than with Changehost :P) / having  Nurgle now bigger and better with free summoning -- a few examples. Now, i'm not ''crying'' for SCE,nor the new book, i'm just curious if the prospect of facing a high model count army with access to free summoning , with a low model count army with no summoning ofc, was given at least a typical ''balance-scaling'' afterthought  / playtesting .  In a non-theoretically level.

 

B)  After playtesting some things and combos, I can say that I will stay away from the wizard ''thingy'' in our book. The decision was taken because it's a matter of ''resources'' in my books. We SC, don't have solid, staple, ''native'' wizards. GUO's , LoC's VLoZD's and a few others , will always be staple because are THAT decent models. For us, every hero in our book is a strong contender with 4-5 others.  All of the pre-mentioned staples are ofc WIZARDS. And no, LAoT is but a small shadow of all these. 

 

  As of now , I will just stick with my old list - LCoSD, Castellant, Relictor, triple Judi's , triple Fulmi's.  I will  just have  an actual allegiance ability now ,to do some tricks.

Edited July 13, 2018 by Aydwen

[Rod]

i think that cleansing phalanx (on paper at least) is very strong   10x sequitors + 10 x sequitors + 5 evo on foot + 5 evo on foot + battalion is roughly 1000 pints

what do you guys think about this as a center piece for a SCE list

[Richelieu]

1 hour ago, Towenaar said:

I guess in this scenario your opponent is much better off killing one of your Lord Arcanums before any other heroes. They can rez each other once per turn but I wouldn't call it gamebreaking or say it made them invincible.

I don't disagree that this is the strategy that they would want to pursue, but in an optimized list built around being invincible, this is much easier said than done.

[Erdemo86]

15 minutes ago, Rod said:

i think that cleansing phalanx (on paper at least) is very strong   10x sequitors + 10 x sequitors + 5 evo on foot + 5 evo on foot + battalion is roughly 1000 pints

what do you guys think about this as a center piece for a SCE list

Agree, i will play 20xSequitors + 5x Sequitors + 2x 5 Evocators and Cleansing Phalanx. That are 1040 points

[AdamR]

1 minute ago, Erdemo86 said:

Agree, i will play 20xSequitors + 5x Sequitors + 2x 5 Evocators and Cleansing Phalanx. That are 1040 points

Yeah, that's the way I would go also.

[Erdemo86]

1 hour ago, AdamR said:

Yeah, that's the way I would go also.

Something like this:

Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar.

Allegiance: Order
Lord-Arcanum on Gryph-Charger (240)
- General
- Trait: We Cannot Fail  
- Celestial Staves (Artefact): Staff of Focus
- Spell: Celestial Blades
- Mount Trait: Keen-clawed
Gavriel Sureheart (100)
Knight-Heraldor (100)
5 x Evocators (200)
5 x Sequitors (120)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
5 x Sequitors (120)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
20 x Sequitors (400)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
3 x Evocators on Dracolines (300)
Celestar Ballista (100)
Celestar Ballista (100)
Cleansing Phalanx (120)
Everblaze Comet (100)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 121

I have normal evocators + Castellant instead of Dracolines.
I played  3 games. Heraldor drop + Everblaze Comet + Staff of Focus, i think that combo is one the best stormcast has now. I did like average 5/6 MW to all enemy units. After that  gavriel + 2 evo boms +20 seqs. I mostly tabled 2 out of three first turn and Major Victory Last game.

The Buffed up Sequitors do some very Good work and Evocators hit hard. 20 Sequitors buffed with Castellant and Arkanum nearby are very resistant. If you buff them Evos too you have

3+ Reroll Save, 6+ Ward Save, 6+ Heals, Lord Arkanum Revive

3+ Reroll Hit, 3+ Reroll To wound, also you can get +1 to wound from Celestial Blades. That combined with 9 Grandweapons inside of the unit are 19 Attacks with Rend-1 Damage 2.

Edited July 13, 2018 by Erdemo86

[Rod]

42 minutes ago, Erdemo86 said:

Something like this:

Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar.

Allegiance: Order
Lord-Arcanum on Gryph-Charger (240)
- General
- Trait: We Cannot Fail  
- Celestial Staves (Artefact): Staff of Focus
- Spell: Celestial Blades
- Mount Trait: Keen-clawed
Gavriel Sureheart (100)
Knight-Heraldor (100)
5 x Evocators (200)
5 x Sequitors (120)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
5 x Sequitors (120)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
20 x Sequitors (400)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
3 x Evocators on Dracolines (300)
Celestar Ballista (100)
Celestar Ballista (100)
Cleansing Phalanx (120)
Everblaze Comet (100)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 121

I have normal evocators + Castellant instead of Dracolines.
I played  3 games. Heraldor drop + Everblaze Comet + Staff of Focus, i think that combo is one the best stormcast has now. I did like average 5/6 MW to all enemy units. After that  gavriel + 2 evo boms +20 seqs. I mostly tabled 2 out of three first turn and Major Victory Last game.

The Buffed up Sequitors do some very Good work and Evocators hit hard. 20 Sequitors buffed with Castellant and Arkanum nearby are very resistant. If you buff them Evos too you have

3+ Reroll Save, 6+ Ward Save, 6+ Heals, Lord Arkanum Revive

3+ Reroll Hit, 3+ Reroll To wound, also you can get +1 to wound from Celestial Blades. That combined with 9 Grandweapons inside of the unit are 28 Attacks with Rend-1 Damage 2.

the new hero , aventis firestrike has two spells per turn and a command ability that gives+1 to wound as well

[mystycalchemy]

49 minutes ago, Erdemo86 said:

Something like this:

Allegiance: Order
Lord-Arcanum on Gryph-Charger (240)
- General
- Trait: We Cannot Fail  
- Celestial Staves (Artefact): Staff of Focus
- Spell: Celestial Blades
- Mount Trait: Keen-clawed
Gavriel Sureheart (100)
Knight-Heraldor (100)
5 x Evocators (200)
5 x Sequitors (120)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
5 x Sequitors (120)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
20 x Sequitors (400)
- Stormsmite Mauls and Soulshields
3 x Evocators on Dracolines (300)
Celestar Ballista (100)
Celestar Ballista (100)
Cleansing Phalanx (120)
Everblaze Comet (100)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 121

maybe normal evocators + Castellant instead of Dracolines.
 

It's worth noting that to get the 'We Cannot Fail' command trait, you have to be Hammers of Sigmar, which means the first hero to receive an Artefact must take the God-forged blade. Fortunately, it doesn't change your list all that much since you have a battalion, but you'd have to put it on the Knight-Heraldor.

[ledha]

2 hours ago, Richelieu said:

If you play it that way then heroes are effectively invincible, which is why most people on here have agreed it should be played the other way. 

not at all, it just force the opponent to kill the last wound with another attack rather than one-shotting him with one unit. The relictor come back with one hp, but circle of storm is once per turn. Just eliminate the last wound with another spell/shooting unit/melee unit

There is FAR more annoying and invincible characters

[AwareTheLegend]

1 hour ago, Erdemo86 said:

Agree, i will play 20xSequitors + 5x Sequitors + 2x 5 Evocators and Cleansing Phalanx. That are 1040 points

All my lists are currently starting with this in mind

[Erdemo86]

33 minutes ago, Rod said:

the new hero , aventis firestrike has two spells per turn and a command ability that gives+1 to wound as well

Yes but hes 360 points and cant take a artefact.

[Erdemo86]

1 minute ago, AwareTheLegend said:

All my lists are currently starting with this in mind

+ Arkanum

[Rod]

5 minutes ago, ledha said:

not at all, it just force the opponent to kill the last wound with another attack rather than one-shotting him with one unit. The relictor come back with one hp, but circle of storm is once per turn. Just eliminate the last wound with another spell/shooting unit/melee unit

There is FAR more annoying and invincible characters

i agree,  cycle of the storm is very powerful,  but not broken

[Freejack02]

5 minutes ago, ledha said:

not at all, it just force the opponent to kill the last wound with another attack rather than one-shotting him with one unit. The relictor come back with one hp, but circle of storm is once per turn. Just eliminate the last wound with another spell/shooting unit/melee unit

There is FAR more annoying and invincible characters

I have to agree with Richelieu here, an optimized list around keeping characters invincible would be oppressively powerful. 5 LAs and a Stardrake would never die. I don't want the new SCE image/meta to be shaped by something so unpleasant. 

[Rod]

2 minutes ago, Freejack02 said:

I have to agree with Richelieu here, an optimized list around keeping characters invincible would be oppressively powerful. 5 LAs and a Stardrake would never die. I don't want the new SCE image/meta to be shaped by something so unpleasant. 

the ability in question is just once  per turn

Edited July 13, 2018 by Rod

[AwareTheLegend]

1 minute ago, Erdemo86 said:

+ Arkanum

Naturally. Probably the Gryph Charger version as well. I think.

[ledha]

5 LA and a stardrake would loose 100% of the time against any army anyway

[Towenaar]

4 minutes ago, Rod said:

the ability in question is just once  per turn

I think that stipulation refers to the ability itself being used once per turn. One way of reading it says a model could be resurrected as many times per turn as you have models that can use the ability. I can see how that might be broken, if you have like x5 LA, will likely be FAQ'd.

[Richelieu]

2 minutes ago, Towenaar said:

One way of reading it says a model could be resurrected as many times per turn as you have models that can use the ability.

That's not one way of reading it, it is the only way of reading it.  The ability refers to "this" Lord arcanum, not "any" Lords arcanum.  

[Rod]

2 minutes ago, Towenaar said:

I think that stipulation refers to the ability itself being used once per turn. One way of reading it says a model could be resurrected as many times per turn as you have models that can use the ability. I can see how that might be broken, if you have like x5 LA, will likely be FAQ'd.

yeah ,  its clear thats once per caster, a model could be afected more than once per turn

heros with "cicle of the storm" are not cheap point wise,  a list with more than 3 is gonna get wrecked if all they can do is support one model

[ledha]

4 minutes ago, Towenaar said:

I think that stipulation refers to the ability itself being used once per turn. One way of reading it says a model could be resurrected as many times per turn as you have models that can use the ability. I can see how that might be broken, if you have like x5 LA, will likely be FAQ'd.

5 lord arcanum is 900 pts already. You'll never see anyone taking 5 LA. The castellant lantern was stackable before, no one abused that because you have waaaay too much things to take in your army before trying silly and useless things like that

[Rod]

1 minute ago, ledha said:

5 lord arcanum is 900 pts already. You'll never see anyone taking 5 LA. The castellant lantern was stackable before, no one abused that because you have waaaay too much things to take in your army before trying silly and useless things like that

yeah ,  thats true, in that scenario, you just want to focus killing lord arcanums

[Richelieu]

This entire conversation is moot anyway since overflow winds don't just magically evaporate.  

I have a pile of wounds to allocate.

First one kills hero.

He is slain, but not removed and instead heals one HP.   It is the same model.  He was not replaced.

Then there are still wounds left to be allocated and since the unit you were allocating to is still there, you have to allocate to the hero and he dies again.

Thinking it works the other way is wishful thinking.  

[Rod]

2 minutes ago, Richelieu said:

This entire conversation is moot anyway since overflow winds don't just magically evaporate.  

I have a pile of wounds to allocate.

First one kills hero.

He is slain, but not removed and instead heals one HP.   It is the same model.  He was not replaced.

Then there are still wounds left to be allocated and since the unit you were allocating to is still there, you have to allocate to the hero and he dies again.

Thinking it works the other way is wishful thinking.  

i don see it that way,

you allocate all wounds, models die

then you resolve cicle of the storm